Thread: Gild

I don't really know what you mean... I don't know if you're a native speaker of english, but could you maybe try to make it clearer? Especially the part where you explain what we should do while going to bed. And how can I do it during the day??
It seems interesting!

basically GILD is this most other technique e.g. wild and mild let your brain relax to go into lucid dream GILD is the complete opposite. at night when going to sleep instead of calming your mind you are going to use all your energy to imagine something for example i will imagine im listening to bruckner number 5 and driving a motocycle. the logic behind this is if someone is hypnotising when you dont want to do you just sit their and clear your mind? no see then your be hypnotised however if you use all you energy to imagine something of what you control and fight the hypnotic effect are you likely to be hypnotised? no. now how you practice during the day is to pick a hard subject like math and read up on a very hard topic in their like calculus now when you get to a point where you do not understand it or get irritated start to push yourself to understand and with this their will be a feeling or drained energy so you push through this and soon your reach a stage where your woking on another level. the point is to at night to push yourself to stay still but mentally awake when you feel like dropping of use all your energy against this if you get bored then push yourself to imagine driving a motobike, playing a game e.t.c. the message is during night use all your energy to stay conscious and then you will enter a NREM dream.


How was one to use these latent stores of energy? Or, to use the word
that James, Sidis, and others preferred, how could one learn to
“energize”? And what exactly could one expect when one did energize
habitually? James (1907b) stated that people who energize to a high
degree tend to have one or both of the following experiences: “Either
some unusual stimulus fills them with emotional excitement, or some
unusual idea of necessity induces them to make an extra effort of will.
Excitements, ideas, and efforts, in a word, are what carry us over the
dam” (p. 59). Sidis, who recommended intensive educational experiences
beginning during the first year of life, was somewhat more specific.
According to Bruce (1909):

Woodworth stated that “the sacred doctrine that the brain
was liable to fatigue was entirely false” (Hale, 1995; p. 141). Instead,
he argued that there were untapped stores of energy with which we could
work: if we simply worked harder, everything would be fine. In
Woodworth's view, working too little, not working too much, was the root
cause of most of our problems.

And what effect did this have on the younger Sidis? “This process proved
so effectual that the boy spontaneously, and with the greatest
enthusiasm, took up the study of mathematics, progressing in it so
rapidly that in a couple of years his mathematical knowledge was
superior to that of his father” (p. 694).

http://www.mail-archive.com/tips@fre.../msg02481.html the technique is simply not to relax your mind but instead force all your energy on a task intill it work on another level if a four year old could understand this and use this technique type william sidis in google and your find out that by using this technique he could speek 7 languages at age 5 he knew advance mathematics at 8 he enter harverd university at 11.

Can I get the technique explained, without reading that giant text thing ?

well it simply not relaxing your mind at night instead force your mind to stay awake by doing something that take mental energy like imaging playing a game intill you fall asleep just stick with it

I would have to say "Genius Induced Lucid Dream" is a bit of a misnomer.

It's basically a WILD. WILD, in itself, is not a technique. It is a much broader concept. It embraces many different types of techniques, including, but not limited to MILD.
MILD is Mnemonic Induced Lucid Dream, which is basically auto-suggestion. One can try to remember, throughout the day, what it is they plan on doing (attaining lucidity, in this case) and there is a chance that it will incorporate itself into the dream and you will "remember" that you wanted to realize that you were dreaming, while you're dreaming.
There are other techniques one can use to enter a lucid dream, using the WILD concept. Another is repeating to yourself, as you're laying down to sleep "I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming," in your head, with the intention of staying conscious with this affirmation, bypassing the shutdown of the physical body until this mental vigilance carries over to the dreaming state (which is exactly what your GILD method is proposing.)
Another well-known technique is to count along with those affirmations: "One - I'm dreaming. Two - I'm Dreaming. 3 - I'm dreaming" and so on. As you're falling asleep, you may notice that you either forget what number you're on, or notice periods where you've skipped whole sets of numbers. You, then, make a point to start over from the beginning. The aim of this is to, while staying attentive to the sequence of numbers, eventually end up in a complete state of sleep, with your mind conscious of what it is you set to continually be aware of.
This is no different, in approach, than visualizing a complex scene or visualizing something simple, like a candle flame, and focusing on holding that image until your body shuts down and you enter NREM sleep. Your mind stays active while trying to hold your awareness to that image. It takes work to keep your mind trained on whatever it is you're trying to do. The point is that there are many ways to do this - many techniques of keeping your mind trained and busy and aware so that you may slip directly to the dreaming state, without losing consciousness.

This is simply a Wake Induced Lucid Dream.

good point but wild mild e.t.c. are technique to relax to go into dream mind the opposite this make it fundamentally different.

Well, as you're thinking of playing a game, listening to music or something like that, then you'll slowly move into sleep-paralysis. It's like counting your breath. Imaging yourself playing something doesn't take that much brain activity. Sometimes, I can make my brain wander about myself playing a game, where I'll actually let it come up with it's own ideas, like if somebody said something, I wouldn't make it up, my sub-concious would. It's pretty funny, to look and listen to what it makes up. Interesting stuff

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

good point but wild mild e.t.c. are technique to relax to go into dream mind the opposite this make it fundamentally different.
[/b]

Not necessarily.

Relaxation is a method of completing a WILD, it is not the method. The only relaxation in WILD that is mandatory of the body - not the mind. This is the same with your proposed GILD. The body must be relaxed for you to be able to carry your consciousness over into sleep, just like the body relaxed for you to be considered "asleep" in the first place. Relaxing the mind, itself, while attempting to WILD means to quiet/block-out everything accept what it is you're trying to focus on. It doesn't mean total relaxation of the mind, in the manner that you're thinking. Such a thing would actually be counter-productive because, of course, total relaxation of the mind, while your body is shutting down is going to do what? Put you to sleep.

The point of a WILD is to keep your mind attentive to whatever method you're using to carry your consciousness over into the sleeping state. You're supposed to stay alert in your intent. I understand your point, (your Technique Works) but you've got just a slight misunderstanding about the WILD, and it is the concept you're misunderstanding that makes your method fit beneath the category of WILD.

in wild why do you have to go to sleep and wake up? well wild justicification is that to enter rem sleep where you only dream which is wrong you dream in NREM sleep too. the reason you go to sleep and wake up so you are relaxed and your mind does not need to concentrate to fall into dream. if people took that out of wild then i suspect it will fall to pieces. mine can work from beginning of sleep period all it need is your mind to be working mentally overtime. the point is yes imaging something is easy however im asking you to push your imagernation constantly whilst fighting to stay awake intill mentally in the dream which is clearly is WILD by description but the fact is it got more to do with the reserve energy priniciple http://www.mail-archive.com/tips@fre.../msg02481.html which is not wild and done for a week can mean lucid dreams every day nearly although the night if the reserve energy technique is used.

p.s. when i mean force your mind i mean push your mind to your limits at night.

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

in wild why do you have to go to sleep and wake up?
[/b]

You're still just not grasping it, man.

In WILD, you don't have to go to sleep.

In fact, what the Tibetan dream yogis have been doing for eons is a variation of what we call WILD. Many are said to be able to pass straight into the dream state, then back out to the waking state, getting a full, physical rest, without the consciousness ever slipping away into what could be interpretted as "sleep." This could also be known as "24 hour consciousness."

That "really pushing yourself" that you're talking about is the work that WILD requires (which is why I'm hardly ever able to do it, from the completely-awake state. My mind usually ends up tiring out and I go to sleep.)

WILD means "Wake Induced Lucid Dream," the "Wake" meaning the Mental Waking State, not just the Physical (I'm Up. I'm awake) State. Inducing a lucid dream through the waking state means using your waking state to travel straight into a dream without losing consciousness. This is done by staying attentive to your waking state as your body passes through its sleeping cycles. Your Body is the only thing "going to sleep" in a WILD, just as it would be in your proposed GILD, but "you", (relating to your experience of consciousness) is staying "awake."

Let me break it down another way:

You know the WBTB method? (Wake Back to Bed) This (while having its own acronym) is another example of a WILD. What makes WBTB it's own variation of WILD is that you have to incorporate getting a few hours sleep in, before "waking up" to attempt the method, afterward. Once you set back down to go to sleep and keep your mind attentive, it is much easier to slip into a WILD. It is simply a WILD (GILD) after having had a few hours of sleep before setting out to accomplish the goal of passing, consciously, into the dream state, in the exact manner you're talking about.

The reserve energy principle might be the de facto reason why WILD works, but it doesn't change the fundamental fact that it's still a WILD. You follow me?

ok by definition it WILD all im pointing out is that it fundamentally flawed because when you relax you weaken your consciousness that why it nearly impossible to do at night or regulary in the mourning. and when i mean pushing yourself it totally different then staying attentive to sleep cycle im saying basically their no such thing as subconscious why we dont have lucid dream is that we preprogram to not think during the dream because we are not mentally alert so the point im trying to make is to push mental activity in the brain up intill and in dream. well we are to relaxed during the day and night by not thinking hard this seem like a advantage your brain does not get tired the only thing what make it hard to lucid dream is that we are using our consciousness when we relaxed theirfore it wasted and gone your hypnotised. coventional WILD is like trying to run fast by runing at the same physical speed over and over again however it would be better to run at your maximum capacity every day then sticking to your normal weak pace.

If you refuse to relax at all, you are not going to get to experience the dream state. Relaxing doesn't "weaken your consciousness," it subdues your brain activity. This is 100% necessary to pass from the waking state to the dream state. Your level of awareness/consciousness doesn't have to change At All. But you Have to get your brain settled down enough to think it's time to shut your body down for sleep. It's as simple as that. Deny yourself that, and you will lie in bed for hours, too alert to even pass into hypnogogic (hypnologic) imagery - much less an actual dream. Want proof of this? B-6 will give you some of the most vivid dreams you've ever had. It keeps your brain very active while your body sleeps. So much so (and this is from much, personal, experience with b-6) that if you take it too long before you go to sleep, and you're already feeling the effects when you lay down, you are going to be wired. You will be mentally Wide Awake, without even a chance of slipping into a dream until the effects have yielded enough for you to relax a little bit (which is a Bad Thing.)

There is an equilibrium between "alert" and "relaxed" that you will have to reach before you can even get to where you experience hynpogogia. If you're too alert through that hypnogogia (by whatever method you choose, yours included) you are simply not going to pass through that stage and into a dream. Ask anyone who has ever tried to actively focus in on a hypnogogic image or scenario and had it fade completely away from them, by putting too much attention on it. Try as hard as you like - It just doesn't work that way.

You previously said:

well it simply not relaxing your mind at night instead force your mind to stay awake by doing something that take mental energy like imaging playing a game intill you fall asleep just stick with it [/b]

The Tutorial on WILD says:
(Take note of the bold in number 4)

The following is a very difficult technique to master that should be practiced when you’re good and ready.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wake-Initiated Lucid Dream (WILD)
Created by: The Lucidity Institute

This technique is by far more difficult and may take some time and patience. The goal of this is to stay conscious while your body falls asleep. This

1. Fall asleep for 5-6 hours before attempting. (Not necessary, but helpful) You should also stay up for about 30-60 minutes. Find a comfortable place and relax.

2. Now close your eyes and think to yourself, "I will lucid dream. I will move from waking to lucidity." Concentrate on your breathing. (Try not to let your mind wonder from this point on; but also too much obsession towards the Wild success may prove uneventful.)

3. What you might see is random flashing and streaks of color. Look carefully at this blackness. This is all the beginning of the your brains imagery, (Hypnologic imagery). You need to watch this imagery but do not focus hard, your vision needs to be relaxed, your eyelids should gently be closed not forced shut. Some solid objects and scenes should appear.

4. If your thoughts become to abstract your at risk of loosing that concentration, Think logical. A way to keep the mind active is to and to bring on the hypnologic images is to imagine doing something that involves imagery, audible and tactile sensations (such as riding a bike, remember to scence anything such as the feel of the handlebars and the wind the sound of birds, etc.)

5. With time may you notice mild vibrations and that your body becomes paralyzed. At that point will you notice that you no longer have any problem concentrating, everything becomes clear, stop concentrating on your breathing and just be aware of your surroundings. Some time later will you begin to experience “second vibrations.” If you begin to loose consciousness, start paying attention to any light in your vision or any internal sound.

6. This stage either happens or it doesn’t. Dream images will start to form. You can go with these images and enter a Lucid Dream. This takes a lot of hard work but it is well worth the effort. (see FAQ for more information on slipping into the dream) [/b][/b]

If you are advocating making your mind as active as you can possibly make it, without relent, not even giving in to the slightest bit of relaxation (which is 100% necessary to convince your body that it is time to shut down and go through its sleep cycle, thereby triggering the neurotransmitters necessary for dreaming) the only thing you are going to do is lay in bed, wide awake, staring at the back of your eyelids which, any insomniac can tell you, is about the most annoying thing in the world.

I guess I agree with both of you; it's definitely a part of WILD, but I must say that becomingagodo explains it in a different way. For example, I suck at wilds, I cannot do them; I start aching everywhere because I try to concentrate on my body being relaxed, and then everything starts to ache and I end up ruining my relaxed state. However, in this method you just go to bed and make sure you stay awake. I've already noticed last night that when I just go to bed but still think about things and keep thinking about things, my body does whatever it wants (i.e. fall asleep) but my mind stays conscious longer than I had before. Of course I ended up falling asleep anyway, but I guess that's just a matter of practice.
So I'll just have to do difficult stuff then eh? Good thing I like math even though I suck at it!

Originally Posted by Luci

For example, I suck at wilds, I cannot do them; I start aching everywhere because I try to concentrate on my body being relaxed, and then everything starts to ache and I end up ruining my relaxed state.
[/b]

That's what you were doing wrong. In a WILD, you're not supposed to concentrate on your body being relaxed. You're supposed to let your body do its own thing (it's going to relax by itself) and simply "stay awake" mentally. You have to lose that "awareness of your body" completely (which is where your feel numb, and vibrations usually begin to occur) to be able to complete a WILD, whether your method is his "GILD" a VILD, WBTB, HILD or my AVID method. (which also explains how mental activity - staying alert/awake - is key)

It's still a WILD, no matter how you slice it.

In the beginning where he said "I have combined three techniques, WILD, VILD....."

That's actually a misrepresentation. VILD is actually a method of WILD. One cannont pass straight into the dream state, by visualizing the dream and allowing themself to fall, consciously, into that scene in one, fluid, transition to a lucid dream, without completing a WILD. It is a different method for accomplishing the same technique.

[Edit = I don't want to stray from my initial point, though: I do agree with him about his method being effective. I just think it complicates things to go adding a new name like Genius Induced Lucid Dream to a method that's been around a while.]

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's what you were doing wrong. In a WILD, you're not supposed to concentrate on your body being relaxed. You're supposed to let your body do its own thing (it's going to relax by itself) and simply "stay awake" mentally. You have to lose that "awareness of your body" completely (which is where your feel numb, and vibrations usually begin to occur) to be able to complete a WILD, whether your method is his "GILD" a VILD, WBTB, HILD or my AVID method. (which also explains how mental activity - staying alert/awake - is key)[/b]

ah right, I figured I must've been doing something wrong... But still, the tutorial talks about lying absolutely still, which is just impossible for me.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

It's still a WILD, no matter how you slice it. [/b]

that's what I said!


Now at least I learned more about the principle of WILD :yumdumdoodledum:
And I feel very motivated to try it again! Thanks.

you can call it wild if you want or non relax wild would be better. the insominia comment is not valid see the only thing which will keep you up is if you do something simple like count or think verbally. i never once mention hypnogogic images i said dont relax your mind if you thought goes of the complex task your thinking off you have failed. i will give you that it will take about 45mins to succesfully do it the first time however this will improve because your actually doing something then just laying waiting for hypnogogic images. you have two assumption wrong you need to relax to pass into a dream state and that thinking really hard will make your mind fatigue. genius part of ILD comes with the theory that the problem with your mind is not overworking it however it is relaxing the mind that is the root of all problems. i use to have insomina in nearly all cases of the description of the problem so the person tries to relax and can not go to asleep in any case using your mind more will probley tire you out then sitting their thinking slowly or doing nothing. by focusing your energy and staying consciousley involed with a hard task or visualing something and not only once relaxing your mind but constanly making it work harder hygogic images will appear and then by ignoring that and staying with task will enter the dream for example yesterday i concentrated on classical music and focusing all my energy on it with not relaxing my mind i had a lucid dream that lasted really long. your mind will get tired like you said however you can work throught it by not relaxing your mind. i have been using this technique for two days including day time and i believe not ever relaxing will give you the best chance of having a lucid dream and who first came up with this technique boris sidis who son william sidis used this and he is consider and genius among geniuses.

luci i still think if you dont use your mind hard enought you will not lucid dream also by only focusing hard in mind to visualise something you will see that your body will naturally relax itself. also if you focus mentally at night visualising something if you get up your see phenomna like star dropping ten minuate of hard thinking will do this if you just do not relax mind.

p.s. if you cannot relise someting and maintain the energy to keep on doing focus your mind on music or something. i stress if you relax your mind at night you will have no lucid dream. ironically i find it easy to relax my body this will not help with lucid dream however if you try it you will still wake up with no lucid dream if you only go to relax body and leave your mind to it own devices to leave your mind to relax then their will be no lucid dreams this were you have failed in WILD method.

Can somone explane this quote from Oneironaut :
3. What you might see is random flashing and streaks of color. Look carefully at this blackness. This is all the beginning of the your brains imagery, (Hypnologic imagery). You need to watch this imagery but do not focus hard, your vision needs to be relaxed, your eyelids should gently be closed not forced shut. Some solid objects and scenes should appear.

The thing is I get light flashings, streaks of light, patterns appearing only half a minute after I close my eyes. I'm guessing that that's a different thing. Or is it?

Originally Posted by Luci

that's what I said!
[/b]

I know ya did. Just reiterating.

Originally Posted by Luci

i said dont relax your mind if you thought goes of the complex task your thinking off you have failed. i will give you that it will take about 45mins to succesfully do it the first time however this will improve because your actually doing something then just laying waiting for hypnogogic images.
[/b]

As you can see:

Originally Posted by Luci

There are other techniques one can use to enter a lucid dream, using the WILD concept. Another is repeating to yourself, as you're laying down to sleep "I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming," in your head, with the intention of staying conscious with this affirmation, bypassing the shutdown of the physical body until this mental vigilance carries over to the dreaming state (which is exactly what your GILD method is proposing.)
Another well-known technique is to count along with those affirmations: "One - I'm dreaming. Two - I'm Dreaming. 3 - I'm dreaming" and so on. As you're falling asleep, you may notice that you either forget what number you're on, or notice periods where you've skipped whole sets of numbers. You, then, make a point to start over from the beginning. The aim of this is to, while staying attentive to the sequence of numbers, eventually end up in a complete state of sleep, with your mind conscious of what it is you set to continually be aware of.
[/b]

I said that staying attentive (or in your words “working your way passed” any mental fatigue) is the key concept of a WILD. You keep throwing the word “relax” in, in ways that I haven’t used it. You keep saying “don’t relax your mind.” That’s what I’ve been saying. Your body needs to relax. Not your mind. Just “sitting around and waiting for hypnogogic images" is going to Put You To Sleep. (which I've already said) If you can do that, and somehow stay “attentive” into a lucid dream is a WILD just like If you “keep your mind racing – buzy – visualizing – Working” it is a WILD, as well. WILD encompasses going from Waking State into a Lucid Dream. Not whether you are (mentally) relaxed or not when you do it. Please stop continuing to make that misconception.

Originally Posted by Luci

you have two assumption wrong you need to relax to pass into a dream state and that thinking really hard will make your mind fatigue.[/b]

The first “assumption”: Yes. Your body needs to relax to pass into the dream state. You need to lose that physiological connection of “body awareness” before your mind can be immersed, completely, in a visual dream state. Unless you are in that state of mind where your body feels completely Numb to you, you will not transition into a dream. This is why we have sleep paralysis and your mental actions, during a dream, do not effect your waking world limbs. Do you have scientific evidence to the contrary?

The second assumption: Never said that at all. Where did that come from?

Originally Posted by Luci

by focusing your energy and staying consciousley involed with a hard task or visualing something and not only once relaxing your mind but constanly making it work harder hygogic images will appear and then by ignoring that and staying with task will enter the dream for example yesterday i concentrated on classical music and focusing all my energy on it with not relaxing my mind i had a lucid dream that lasted really long. your mind will get tired like you said however you can work through it by not relaxing your mind.[/b]

If you were to “relax your mind” (like I’ve been telling you not to do) you’d fall asleep, thus failing a WILD. You’re trying to change the definition of a WILD to something that has nothing to do with mentally relaxing, when WILD doesn’t (fundamentally) have anything to do with relaxing the mind. It has to do with staying attentive to whatever thought/task you are trying to hold on to, to carry you over into the dream state. You are supposed to focus hard on that thought/task, passing any involuntary fatigue and keeping yourself conscious until you’ve carried over into the dream state.

Look, I’m not going to argue about it. I just feel calling a WILD a GILD (which it has nothing to do with “genius” other than it’s the way Sidis, whom you obviously have a lot of respect for, studied.) The method you’re describing in its entirety is already well-known. Seriously, many people around here are WILD experts. If you don’t believe me, ask around.

It’s silly to sit here going back and forth over the same thing, though, so, props on your “new” method. Hope it works out well.

Originally Posted by Luci

Can somone explane this quote from Oneironaut :
3. What you might see is random flashing and streaks of color. Look carefully at this blackness. This is all the beginning of the your brains imagery, (Hypnologic imagery). You need to watch this imagery but do not focus hard, your vision needs to be relaxed, your eyelids should gently be closed not forced shut. Some solid objects and scenes should appear.

The thing is I get light flashings, streaks of light, patterns appearing only half a minute after I close my eyes. I'm guessing that that's a different thing. Or is it?
[/b]

Nah. I’m no expert in what that actually is (I think it has something to do with the blood that moves through your veins, beneath your eyelids, and how the sensation messes with your optics, giving you patterns of color and, seemingly, light. I’m not sure, though.) but I see that too, when I close my eyes, so I know what you’re talking about.

HI is much more potent. The colors and streaks of light often solidify into whole images. You can catch a few seconds of a beach – then, half a second later – you’re seeing a kaleidoscope (sp) of color, then a field, then a strange orange blur, etc. HI usually comes in right around the time your body goes into sleep paralysis. Depending on how relaxed your body is, when you lay down to sleep or meditate, your HI can start pretty quickly, but I doubt it’s what you’re talking about.

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

luci i still think if you dont use your mind hard enought you will not lucid dream also by only focusing hard in mind to visualise something you will see that your body will naturally relax itself. [/b]

I know, I got that
I do think I get the point about pushing your mind, because sometimes when I really cannot keep my eyes open anymore and all I want to do is sleep (in class where it's not really appropriate) I really have to work hard on not closing my eyes, but my mind keeps screaming, CLOSE YOUR EYES!!! But then I won't, because I'm too stubborn

HI is much more potent. The colors and streaks of light often solidify into whole images. You can catch a few seconds of a beach – then, half a second later – you’re seeing a kaleidoscope (sp) of color, then a field, then a strange orange blur, etc. HI usually comes in right around the time your body goes into sleep paralysis. Depending on how relaxed your body is, when you lay down to sleep or meditate, your HI can start pretty quickly, but I doubt it’s what you’re talking about.
[/b]

I think I had it when I was trying a NILD ( ) It was a short sceene. I was eating some leaves and could actually taste them! Then It just switched back to my eyelid view.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

I think I had it when I was trying a NILD ( ) It was a short sceene. I was eating some leaves and could actually taste them! Then It just switched back to my eyelid view.
[/b]

Yup. That's it, alright.