Thread: Key to lucid dreaming

The anwser is to go to bed an hour early like 11pm, you need to have more time sleeping. This increases sleep and makes it easier to wild, do a bit of visualization when you go to sleep some relaxation technique, lucid dream. Well, going to bed when you're not tired decreases the risk of failing and increases the risk of lucid dreaming. Also you have to attempt to wild without WBTB as it helps with dream recal and the chances of DEILD, plus you're not tired so you can do it.

Simple

I'm having crazy dreams at the moment, lucid dreams. Time seems weird longer.

DEILD's exclude WILD's so you cant have both at once IMHO. And 'the key to lucid dreaming' is to each person very diffrent. There is no uniform key. Youre technique wont work for half the people on DV!

A technique that would reliably work for half the people would be an awesome technique indeed.

Originally Posted by MoD

And 'the key to lucid dreaming' is to each person very diffrent. There is no uniform key. Youre technique wont work for half the people on DV!

I play devil's advocate when I say that I beg to differ. There IS a uniform key to lucidity, we just need to refine the techniques. Just like there is only one way to make bread, but people have adjusted their own recipes.

THe key is simple: Body asleep, mind awake. <-- Can't argue with that.

Soon we will discover the recipe to lucidity and VOILA. It'll be easily accessible to everyone.

Think about it, think about it.

Originally Posted by GODLIGHT

I play devil's advocate when I say that I beg to differ. There IS a uniform key to lucidity, we just need to refine the techniques. Just like there is only one way to make bread, but people have adjusted their own recipes.

THe key is simple: Body asleep, mind awake. <-- Can't argue with that.

Soon we will discover the recipe to lucidity and VOILA. It'll be easily accessible to everyone.

Think about it, think about it.

Actually, I have to disagree with that.

There is one way to make bread, sure, but lucidity is a mixture of psychological and physiological processes. While the physiological is a little more uniform, from person to person (but not in all cases, it's important to note), the psychological factors that contribute to (and, conversely, hinder) lucidity vary greatly, from person to person.

In other words; it takes a person's logical mind and awareness of the dream state (not just an 'awake' mind) to realize that what they are experiencing is a dream. This, I'd argue, is not something that is uniform, in all of us.

I've gotta agree with GODLIGHT on this one.. and also add my 2¢, which is also in-line with what wendylove said: get "too much" sleep. That goes a helluva long way towards better dreaming, for sure. Also, there seems to me to be a connection between poor sleep quality (or "light" sleep) and improved dreaming. Like if you're sleeping "with one ear open" sort of thing. Which I think is just about the same thing as after you've had "too much" sleep, you ride the top of the waves instead of sinking down deep into deep-ass sleep.

Originally Posted by Phydeaux_3

Also, there seems to me to be a connection between poor sleep quality (or "light" sleep) and improved dreaming. Like if you're sleeping "with one ear open" sort of thing. Which I think is just about the same thing as after you've had "too much" sleep, you ride the top of the waves instead of sinking down deep into deep-ass sleep.

Now that I agree with. It's also why I believe (and have witness) that daytime naps are some of the most effective ways of lucid dreaming. Your brain doesn't really have time to get through all those cycles and an awareness of "only taking a nap and having to wake up soon" keeps your 'one ear open' and makes it more likely that you will become aware of the dream state, once you start to experience it.

Originally Posted by GODLIGHT

Soon we will discover the recipe to lucidity and VOILA. It'll be easily accessible to everyone.

Think about it, think about it.

In general this isn't a very good argument, but here goes: lots of people have already thought about it. If we're going to discover this soon, then why haven't we done so already?

As humans we've had the ability to do this for thousands of years, but no tradition has survived that uses a "quick fix" lucidity technique to strengthen its claims. (Tibetan Yoga is definitely not easily accessible to everyone).

The existence of lucid dreaming has been known by a fair number of people for hundreds of years.

The field has been under scientific study for a couple of decades in several places, in particular by LaBerge, who is very interested in the potential of lucid dreaming, has worked for many years to produce and publish better methods, and would be delighted to come up with something even more effective.

Although Laberge seems to be more interested in the financial gain of people joining up for his overpriced weekend seminars

DEILD's exclude WILD's so you cant have both at once IMHO.

I said doing Wild at the beginning of sleeping helps with DEILD not do DEILD and a wild.

And 'the key to lucid dreaming' is to each person very diffrent.

Yeah, but that is a assumption, now I see it like this we all sleep the same way. The mechanism of sleep is the same for everyone. Well, it stupid to assume both ways, however I think I have a better assumption.

Youre technique wont work for half the people on DV!

assumption again

A technique that would reliably work for half the people would be an awesome technique indeed.

Yeah it would.

The point is that mRI scans of sleep in the general population don't differ, now why then would it be alright to assume everyone can't wild the same way. As isn't wilding going to sleep with brain switched on. Plus all the Buddist I know wild the same way.

Originally Posted by wendylove

The point is that mRI scans of sleep in the general population don't differ.

Uhm...(correct me if I'm wrong, but) aren't MRI's used for examining body tissue; as in visual models of the brain and other organs? (an image that does not change, unless there is tissue damage) I think the machine that would give some backing to your theory would be an EEG (electroencephalograph) which actually measures and records brainwave activity.

And, assuming that you meant an EEG scan (simply for the sake of argument), then what differentiates lights sleepers from heavy sleepers? Why do some people toss and turn while others sleep like a rock? Why do some people talk in their sleep? Why do some people walk in their sleep? Why do some people have night terrors, even later on in life than the norm? Please provide insight as to how all of these different sleeping traits all occur without unique brainwave activity.

With all that out of the way; I do agree that going to sleep earlier then usual is a good (and well-known) way to aid in lucid dreaming. Main reasons being because it gives you a better chance to WILD, without falling asleep (like you said) and because your REM periods become longer, with the more sleep that you get, so you will have a better chance of having longer, more vivid dreams, that may increase your level of awareness.

Originally Posted by wendylove

I see it like this we all sleep the same way. The mechanism of sleep is the same for everyone. Well, it stupid to assume [either] ways, however I think I have a better assumption.

Isn't it's better to start from the assumption that everyone is different in some way? There's a natural tendency to assume that everyone else is the same as yourself anyway.

Yes, the basic physiology is the same for most people, but theres enough variation that it really is a matter of each individual finding what works best for them. I think DELID is amazing and I saw it quite some time ago, but I haven't had that much luck with it, mainly because of the willpower it requires you to maintain consistently throughout the night. And in terms of basic sleep patterns, I'm not pathologically weird but I would definitely get tired if I limited myself to the standard 8 hours of sleep.

You have to be aware and looking for the differences between people if you want to see the commonalities that make certain techniques effective for many people, and the ways they can be adjusted for different people. If you assume everyone's the same you'll tend to miss all that.

Originally Posted by wendylove

The point is that mRI scans of sleep in the general population don't differ, now why then would it be alright to assume everyone can't wild the same way. As isn't wilding going to sleep with brain switched on. Plus all the Buddist I know wild the same way.

Er, what point? MRI's are damn cool, but just because peoples brains happen to look the same on a particular scan doesn't mean that they can all WILD to the best of their potential by doing exactly what you tell them.

Your Buddhist friends may not be a particularly good example either. Frequent meditation isn't a common practice, and you'd expect that - and the ideas of the religion - to have some sort of effect on the way they relax, and their consciousness while falling asleep.

Originally Posted by wendylove

you have to attempt to wild without WBTB as it helps with dream recal and the chances of DEILD, plus you're not tired so you can do it

I do WILD like exercises when I go to bed; relaxing, following HI/streams of concepts, taking a conscious interest in how I fall asleep. But its just a way to help get to sleep - I used to stay awake thinking about things, so I think its important to clear my mind and focus on sleeping.

I haven't noticed any effect on my recall (which is pretty spotty, though I rarely have "dreamless sleep" anymore). I'd have said recall is all about waking up after the dream and recording the dream before it goes away.

And I've only actually induced a lucid dream when I've done WBTB. Are you saying you "can do it" and get lucid if you start when you're not tired, or when you say "attempt to wild without WBTB" do you mean that its the attempt that matters and you're not actually trying to have a lucid dream immediately?

well i believe in you...not that it'll work for me since i can only LD through DILDs. good luck with your weird time extending crazy lucid dreams

Yeah, but that is a assumption, now I see it like this we all sleep the same way. The mechanism of sleep is the same for everyone. Well, it stupid to assume both ways, however I think I have a better assumption.

Does everyone have the same sleep requirements? No. It varies, not only in the amount of sleep, but the timing of sleep. There are true night owls and true ...
thenewstribune.healthology.com/sleep-disorders/article1569.htm - 55k -

According to google everyones sleep requirements are differents, and if their sleep requirements are different then why whould there be a technique that works for everyone?