WILD making me wild. Grrrrrrrr

[moonshine]

I've attempted and failed WILDs a number of times now. First time was straight to be. Felt my body go down. Felt the 1st stage vibrations. Felt the 2nd stage big vibrations. But didn't get anywhere. Gave up and found that 5-6hrs had gone by. Next time tried from waking in the night. Got up for a pee. Filled in dream journal. Back to be. Perfectly still. Stage 1 vibrations. Staring at space. Some HI. Nothing earthshattering. Gave up. 2 hours gone by. Afternoon nap WILD. Much the same. Some MILDS which aciddentally became WILDS as I lay there. Much the same. Tried WILD last night. 2 hours gone when I gave up. Tried WILD this afternoon (as I was knackered after lunch). Did 61 point relaxation, and kept nodding off but catching myself. Later I started to feel less groggy. Eventually my arms legs and body feel numb. Tried countdown. Tried "I'm dreaming". Tried Visualisation. Tried watching HI. Nothing! Gave up, 2 hours gone. So here's my question. I what point is it sensible to just abort? When does it become pointless? Its wearing me down.

[Dave B]

I guess some people just find it easier and others find it impossible. Don't get discouraged though.

[dogdirts]

It's putting your body to sleep while keeping your mind awake for gods sake. It's not clipping your nails, this is HARD! Keep trying though, is anything worth achieving easy? Keep at it.

[Ghost94]

Just read BillyBob´s "How To WILD" thread. Can´t provide link right now... Search it

[WolfeDreamer531]

Billy Bob's How to WILD Clarity's WILD Technique The latter link helped me out a lot, but everyone is different. You have to know your body and how your body reacts when trying to WILD. It sounds like you might be waking yourself up from excitement. Once this happens, it can be very hard to go back to sleep. But thats not to say that you cant WILD after that much time has gone by. Believe it or not, my first WILD came after trying/waiting to fall back asleep for 4 hours. It was well worth it too. So read all you can about WILDing and keep practicing and you will definitely get it. Another technique you might want to add to WILDing is REM deprivation. This is basically going w/o REM sleep for at least three days (or more). The goal is to sleep for about three to four hours for three or more days until you're ready to attempt your WILD. This helps b/c your body will be going through REM rebound which will make your dreams extremely vivid.

[moonshine]

Thanks for the responses guys. I really am beside myself at the moment. I tried a WILD again last night. Got up at four. Moved to the spare bedroom, masks on, earplugs in. 61 point relaxation technique. Stayed quite still. Didn't swallow.Didn't move my eyes. My arms and legs got numb like they usually do (not SP I think, just the fact that I'm not moving). Got through the Itchy nose, itch face fake outs. But had to give up after two hours. Back to bed with the missus. Tried to fall asleep but couldn't. Ended up in another attempted WILD because of it. Cut out the counting, as I think this is keeping me too awake. Just concentrated on my breathing. Another two hours. No joy. Boy I'm knackered today though. Billy Bob's How to WILD Clarity's WILD Technique The latter link helped me out a lot, but everyone is different. You have to know your body and how your body reacts when trying to WILD. It sounds like you might be waking yourself up from excitement. Once this happens, it can be very hard to go back to sleep. But thats not to say that you cant WILD after that much time has gone by. Believe it or not, my first WILD came after trying/waiting to fall back asleep for 4 hours. It was well worth it too. So read all you can about WILDing and keep practicing and you will definitely get it. I've read all the wild guides. I've hunted through the forum and read every wild thread I could find. Everything about SP too. It just doesn't seem to be clicking. You may be right about me being to excited. I definitely woke up before my alarm this morning in anticipation. My head was buzzing initially, though the relaxation techniques helped. Don't think I even got the wave of 1st stage vibrations even, which I readily achieved the first two times I tried WILD. Would seratonin help a begineer like me go under quicker? In any event I need to take a break from it for a while and get some proper sleep.

[ClouD]

Ask yourself, if you are stuck at a certain stage, why is it that you are stuck? Perhaps you should visualise at this point. Fall into a scenario you create, but with a double-edged awareness - of yourself and the scenario.

[moonshine]

Billy Bob's How to WILD Actually whilst I read Billybobs thread previously, I don't think I took it all in. Having an "expectation" may well be my problem. My expectation was to let my body fall asleep without losing consciousness and a dream would come. So I'm now pretty good at not moving and getting numb. Its not like I was doing a lot of thinking. I know enough that I want to be keeping it simple. But billybobs notion that I want to be falling asleep mentally (whilst holding onto that anchor) is interesting. Is my interpretation of this correct? As to my question of when to give up, do I need to feel mentally as well as physically tired for it to work. If I wake up and I'm too alert, is it best not to bother? If I'm numb but I find my thoughs are too clear, should I give up? Thanks again for your answers everyone.

[WolfeDreamer531]

I've read all the wild guides. I've hunted through the forum and read every wild thread I could find. Everything about SP too. It just doesn't seem to be clicking. I dont think you've read mine yet! These are the steps to my WILD technique: 1. Devote at least 2 hours (or more) to WILDing. 2. Remember your goal (where you want to go, what you want to do, etc). 3. Dismiss any other thoughts and focus only on taking slow, deep breaths. 4. Remain COMPLETELY still, no matter what. 5. Try to steer clear of straying/abstract thoughts when entering SP (random/abstract thoughts means that the logical part of your brain is falling asleep, dont let it!). (they can also cause you to enter a non-Lucid Dream which would make all this work was for nothing!) 6. Dont fight or resist SP in any way / stay relaxed and calm when it begins to happen. 7. Continue to focus only on your (slow, deep) breathing as vibrations, Hypnagogic Imagery, and auditory hallucinations become more intense from SP. (you can focus on and/or visualize your goal once you think you've got the breathing part down packed). 8. Continue step 7 until you feel that sudden rush of falling through your bed or through the ceiling (in my case); this should mean that SP is complete, and hence you are ready to dream. 9. If you are not already in a dream scene, then spin around or rub your hands together (or both) in order to conjure up one. Doing this can also stabilize a fading/blurry dream scene. There you have it, those are pretty much all the steps I take when Im attempting a WILD. And if it doesnt work the first time, remember that it takes time so dont give up! I know it seems like a lot, but once you've been through it many times, you will become better and better at it. You may be right about me being to excited. I definitely woke up before my alarm this morning in anticipation. My head was buzzing initially, though the relaxation techniques helped. Don't think I even got the wave of 1st stage vibrations even, which I readily achieved the first two times I tried WILD. Yeah, I think excitement/expectation is whats keeping you from getting it all the way. This is why practice is the best way to become "used to" entering the dream world. You will also become familiar with Sleep Paralysis, the feelings of SP, the effects SP has on you, and how to react to SP in future WILD attempts. Would seratonin help a begineer like me go under quicker? In any event I need to take a break from it for a while and get some proper sleep. Yeah take a break to get refreshed for some intense WILDing!!! lol And by Serotonin, did you mean Melatonin? Actually whilst I read Billybobs thread previously, I don't think I took it all in. Having an "expectation" may well be my problem. My expectation was to let my body fall asleep without losing consciousness and a dream would come. So I'm now pretty good at not moving and getting numb. Its not like I was doing a lot of thinking. I know enough that I want to be keeping it simple. Looks like you're already ahead of me. Like i said above, thats why practicing is the best way to overcome expectation/excitement. Once you've dont it so many times and become used to it, you wont have any reasons to become excited like you used to and you'll be a lot better at controlling your emotions like expectation. I noticed this as I practiced WILDing more often. But billybobs notion that I want to be falling asleep mentally (whilst holding onto that anchor) is interesting. Is my interpretation of this correct? I cant really help you out on the whole anchor thing seeing how I dont really use an anchor when I WILD As to my question of when to give up, do I need to feel mentally as well as physically tired for it to work. If I wake up and I'm too alert, is it best not to bother? If I'm numb but I find my thoughs are too clear, should I give up? Thanks again for your answers everyone. Well everybody is different, but if you're like me, then Id say not to even bother. Because I know the minute I wake up whether im going to be able to WILD or not. And if im alert and not tired (physically and/or mentally) then im most likely not going to WILD, or even fall back asleep for that matter.

[moonshine]

Thanks Wolfedreamer for taking the time to help and advise. 2hrs to WILD you say! Eek. This is always about when I give up. Having resolved myself to a quiet night, I ended up having a DILD Lucid this morning. Which has cheered me up a bit. I also woke up whilst lucid (I heard a dog barking in my dream...turned out to be my wife doing her very rare and cute snores in my ear). I didn't move and just sat there. The most interesting thing is is that the feeling of my body (numbness in arms, feet, even my teeth felt like they do after being to the dentist) was very familiar. I felt like that just about every time I've tried to Wild. Initially I was thinking about DEILDing, but there was going to be no chance with the snoring. I had to move to nudge the wife. Shaking the numbness off was pretty much the same as it is when I give up on WILDing. Which in a way is good...I've got part of it right at least. It seems that, as you say, i've got to sort out my mind rather than my body. You say you just concentrate on your breathing. Do you mean with no count down etc trying to keep a clear mind?

[WolfeDreamer531]

Thanks Wolfedreamer for taking the time to help and advise. 2hrs to WILD you say! Eek. This is always about when I give up. Having resolved myself to a quiet night, I ended up having a DILD Lucid this morning. Which has cheered me up a bit. Congrats on the DILD, and no problem man, thats what im here for. I didn't move and just sat there. The most interesting thing is is that the feeling of my body (numbness in arms, feet, even my teeth felt like they do after being to the dentist) was very familiar. I felt like that just about every time I've tried to Wild. Initially I was thinking about DEILDing, but there was going to be no chance with the snoring. I had to move to nudge the wife. Shaking the numbness off was pretty much the same as it is when I give up on WILDing. Yeah the numb feelings are definitely precursors to the onset of SP. I dont know if almost every part of your body felt kind of stiff when you're trying to shake the numbness off, if they were stiff, then that meant that you were really close. did you seem to have straying or abstract thoughts too while you were at this stage? You say you just concentrate on your breathing. Do you mean with no count down etc trying to keep a clear mind? Yeah, that exactly what i mean. i never count b/c this lets me keep track of time which distracts me and keeps me up if i get to high. But when you focus on the breathing, it works in two ways: it clears your mind from everything else somewhat and it helps to deceive your body into believing that you've lost consciousness and hence, are ready for sleep. And after you've been completely still whilst breathing slowly for a while, you should notice those numbing effects returning. after the effects of SP become more intense, usually this is where the straying/abstract thoughts begin to appear (sometimes they can literally "appear" visually in your mind). thats why its important to try to remain focused on your goal whilst not waking your body up (sounds harder than it is, you'll get it with practice).

[moonshine]

Yeah, that exactly what i mean. i never count b/c this lets me keep track of time which distracts me and keeps me up if i get to high. This sounds like a plan. Next time I'll just do some 61 point to relax and then just listen to my breathing (no counting). I dont know if almost every part of your body felt kind of stiff when you're trying to shake the numbness off, if they were stiff, then that meant that you were really close. For sure. I was really sluggish initially. Definately had to "shake it off" if you know what I mean. did you seem to have straying or abstract thoughts too while you were at this stage? Yes. During the Marathon Wild attempt described at the start of this thread there were two occasions where, when doing 61 point relaxation, I found myself viewing mini dreams (HI?) which would dissapear as soon as I realised what they were. This happened at the very start, and also at the very end, when I had given up on Wilding and was just doing 61 point to try and get to sleep (which tells me something I guess). After I initially started trying to wild there did seem to come a point where my thinking cleared. I assumed this was because I was close to SP (I think Laberge describes this in his book). But maybe I just became too mentally awake/aware. Again, emptying my mind and just concentrating on my breathing might well help.

[Adam]

Woah, 2 hours is way to long to be trying to WILD. I would say 30 minutes max should be enough. If you're struggling with the techniques you're using then they clearly are not right for you. Most of the techniques on this forum are written because they work for the person writing them, so they're not always going to work for you. The important thing is to combine what does work for you into one. Maybe then creating your own technique. For example, I don't experience any HI/HS when entering SP, neither do I feel tingling, nor do I feel any waves over me. I identified this very early on, and decided I would remove them from the process of me trying to WILD. I found out what id work for me and used this, and refined a technique using everything that worked for ME, not others. This includes strong tactile sensations, and often I WILD when I go to sleep rather than waking up to do it, but everyone is different so try a combination of techniques. Also, if you have an itch, then get it, nothing is more detrimental to your attempts to WILD than irritating itches for example. Anyway, keep trying, and clear this negative thoughts from your head, because each time you try to WILD you're going to have negative thoughts and this could prohibit your attempts. Often we LD when we least expect it. Good luck

[WolfeDreamer531]

Yes. During the Marathon Wild attempt described at the start of this thread there were two occasions where, when doing 61 point relaxation, I found myself viewing mini dreams (HI?) which would dissapear as soon as I realised what they were. This happened at the very start, and also at the very end, when I had given up on Wilding and was just doing 61 point to try and get to sleep (which tells me something I guess). After I initially started trying to wild there did seem to come a point where my thinking cleared. I assumed this was because I was close to SP (I think Laberge describes this in his book). But maybe I just became too mentally awake/aware. Again, emptying my mind and just concentrating on my breathing might well help. Sounds like you got it man. And you were as close as one could get without getting it all the way. I mean you basically had one foot in the lucid dream door so try to become familiar with what it felt like when you were in that position. Even now, for me, its still hard trying to capitalize on opportunities like that so dont think that you did anything wrong. Thats why I like to attempt WILDs at least 3 or 4 times before giving up b/c I rarely get them on the 1st or 2nd try. But it seems like you're on the right track to WILDing; I think you're going to get the next time you do a WBTB

[moonshine]

Thanks WolfeDreamer. Heres hoping.

[moonshine]

Accidentally scratched my back messing around today. Stinging a bit. Maybe I'll use this as an anchor if I try to WILD tonight.

[moonshine]

Anyhoo, I've been trying to be more passive when doing wild or wbtb. Seems to be working. I tried to WILD after waking up this morning, but gave up after about an hour. Just let myself nod off. Initially had a very short DILD. I woke up, and tried to DEILD, but no joy. So I got comfortable and decided to just fall asleep. I began experiencing Hypnogogic Imagery. For the very first time I was able to keep a "passive" eye on them. I just let myself watch them without the jolt of realisation I normally get when trying to WILD. I wasn't aware of going under, but I do remember dreaming properly for a short time, before realising I was dreaming and having LD. I have the feeling I became lucid not long after I started dreaming. It was pretty cool too. I was wandering about, rubbing hands together and asking for "clarity" and seeing things brighten up. I tried one of my dream tasks which was to "walk" into the air rather than fly, as if I was walking up invisible stairs. Didn't get far with that. Next looked over a panoramic view of hills, sea, sky. Dream started fading and fritzing out. Tried rubbing hands together but not use. As a last ditch attempt I dropped to the ground rubbing my hands through the dirt as it faded. Even whilst everything was black I could "feel" the dirt. Then I was in a new, more pedestrian scene. A bar or something. Still lucid. So I tried my new trick, found a "remote control" (always there when I reach for it without looking) and used it to form a door to a new location. The door was too small though, but I was able to make it big enough by pushing the sides apart. Woke up not long after. Anyhow, two DILDs, a good HI experience and some fun dream control. Woo hoo.

[moonshine]

Tried to WILD during an afternoon nap. Didn't manage it. I downed a can of red bull just before hand, cos I've read this could keep my mind awake as my body falls asleep. Initially tried 61 point relaxation. Almost instantly this was being interupted by HI mini-dream snippets. After I got through it, I just concentrated on my breathing. Two or three times my armes jerked out. Not something I wanted to do, and didn't have time to prevent it. I've read a few people describe this. LOL, i'd turned my head to prevent the swallow reflex. My face was covered in drool when I gave up. Anyhow, until next time.

[Robot_Butler]

It sounds like you are figuring out what works for you. Keep that last successful attempt in mind when you try again. It could be that you are preventing yourself from falling asleep completely. Remember, you have to fall asleep to dream, even during a WILD. It seems like you had a successful WILD when you transitioned to a brief dream, then into a full lucid. Maybe letting this happen will let you relax and be passive a bit more.

[Robot_Butler]

I was thinking about your problem of lying in bed, awake for hours. You may want to try reverse blinking. It is very easy, doesn't take any visualization or concentration, and works for a lot of people to induce a trance. Basically, you close your eyes and relax. Inhale, then exhale, counting the breath on each exhale. Now, every time you come to the end of your exhale, you blink your eyes open and shut quickly. If you do it right, you just get a flash of vision for a split second. It helps to keep those stray thoughts out of your head. I use this to fall asleep quickly when my mind is racing. I also use it to calm myself down during WILD attempts where I know I am not tired enough.

[moonshine]

I was thinking about your problem of lying in bed, awake for hours. You may want to try reverse blinking. It is very easy, doesn't take any visualization or concentration, and works for a lot of people to induce a trance. Basically, you close your eyes and relax. Inhale, then exhale, counting the breath on each exhale. Now, every time you come to the end of your exhale, you blink your eyes open and shut quickly. If you do it right, you just get a flash of vision for a split second. It helps to keep those stray thoughts out of your head. I use this to fall asleep quickly when my mind is racing. I also use it to calm myself down during WILD attempts where I know I am not tired enough. Thanks RB. I actually tried this after WBTB last night. Guess it working, cos I just fell asleep. Doh! Will need to pay more attention next time. Just finished reading some threads on FILD. I reckon I will give this a try. Tried a Wild this afternoon (I'm on vacation this week). Switched my MP3 onto white noise. Thought this would be a good anchor. No joy though. I will keep at it.

[moonshine]

After a pretty rubbish vacation week of failed Wilding, I went back to tried and tested MILD. Result. DILD's on both saturday and sunday. This morning was really interesting. I had FA, but kept my eyes shut. I realised it was an FA when I was able to push my hand through the wall next to my bed. I also exited a dream and ended up watching HI. This wasn't anything like the boring old shaped and colours behind the eye. It was a fantastic light show of blue lightning fractal type patterns. I say a light and imagined it to be a door coming closer. I lost lucidity and ended up in a strange little dream. But I soon realised again and became lucid again just before I woke up. The FA's and dream hopping might ordinarily have been a bit annoying, but I enjoyed experiencing things I have, to date, only read about. Good practice for future.

[Robot_Butler]

What a fun weekend. It seems like this was a good weekend for a lot of people. Maybe the solar flares were in sync with orion's belt or something crazy. I don't know if I've ever seen those geometric patterns and light shows. I will have to remember to try that next time.