Thread: Explain us the Key of WILDing

I have a Zazen meditation guide PDF I think may come in handy for learning to focus and stay aware during WILDS. It describes many states and practices of awareness that to me seem similair to what Lucid Dreamers do when WILDing.

It's here but you'll need to be a member to view(it's just a forum like this one):
http://www.shroomery.org/attachments...azen_guide.pdf

PS: This isn't bad either. Exploring the World Of Lucid Dreaming:
http://www.shroomery.org/attachments...t,English).pdf

Anywayz, if you can't read the Zazen guide or can't be bothered to subsribe...
There's a part in it that mentions certain kinds of meditation in which "Koans" are used; Paradoxal questions, usually without answer or a very irational asnwer, who's purpose is to bring the one asked this question, traditionally a zen student, into a meditative state of realisation.
An example of such a Koan is:

Test yourself with this koan: “ A monk asked Joshu: ‘What is the meaning of
Bodhidharma coming to China?’ Joshu replied: ‘The oak tree in the
garden.’”

The point is not at all that the person who was posed the Koan-question can answer this question. Instead the intent of Koans are to induce the Mindstate induced by such a Paradox question, and to maintain that mindstate, keeping one's attention focussed on the paradoxal question while seeking no answer to it. It is a way to focus awareness so strong that distractive thoughts have a hard time comming through.

I tried this and found it very effective at entrancing me, almost hypnotic.
Made me think: Perhaps one could go into a WILD with such a Koan? This eample of a Koan could be usefull. Let's say you posed yourself this impossible question from the Koan above and you
think "The oak tree in the garden". In makes no sense at all in relation to the question. Don't seek the answer, don't picture an oak tree in a garden. Just maintain suspended in that state of paradox aslong as possible. If you are distracted repeat the Koan. If spontanious thoughts or visions of an oak tree in a garden Do occur, then good because they may form into a dream, but don't focus on it. Only focus on "The oak tree in the garden" and the paradox-state it induces.

Does that by any chance sound familiar to the mindstate succesfull WILDers here use to stay aware while falling asleep?

I have successfully wilded only once (or twice, depending on what you call a WILD), my method at the time was first to breath in whilst thinking 1,2,3 and so on and thinking "I'm dreaming" when breathing out (you have to wake up at night btw), then when the counting got increasingly impossible due to loss of focus I proceeded to "watch the party of thoughts in my mind"- as in totally random/useless thoughts, but enjoyable somehow, after a while of doing that got hypnogogics (NOT some numbness- true hallucinations), and was then plunged into a very awesome and detailed dream- totally worth the trouble. Another hint I can give is when your body feels very tired and wants to "just give up" you should laugh at it and say "hehe, must be getting close now". Hope that was of some help!

I think the key to successful wilding is that you have to really sleepy, get at least 4 or 5 hours, get up do something but nothing that'll make you alert. Then you may feel yourself getting even more sleepy and then go back to bed. It should be around 4 or 5 in the morning maybe 3 in the morning by the time you get back to bed, i had my first well about a couple days or so ago. I got up around 4 something after about 4 or so hours of sleep, i went online to dreamviews, i didn't dream that night after i got up at 4am or so, but i went back to bed and had several false awakenings on top of a wild.

Originally Posted by topten35

I think the key to successful wilding is that you have to really sleepy, get at least 4 or 5 hours, get up do something but nothing that'll make you alert. Then you may feel yourself getting even more sleepy and then go back to bed. It should be around 4 or 5 in the morning maybe 3 in the morning by the time you get back to bed, i had my first well about a couple days or so ago. I got up around 4 something after about 4 or so hours of sleep, i went online to dreamviews, i didn't dream that night after i got up at 4am or so, but i went back to bed and had several false awakenings on top of a wild.

Did like that tonight! Slept very very late and before that I just laid down.
I feel asleep but I hade some LD's that night!

In which part of the WILDing process do you "loose control"?

Where I am falling asleep and trying to maintainawareness in the meantime.
I just get distracted by thoughts and dose off, Usually without SP. It all just seems to go blank no matter how hard or whatever I've thusfar tried to maintain awareness.

Originally Posted by yuriythebest

I have successfully wilded only once (or twice, depending on what you call a WILD), my method at the time was first to breath in whilst thinking 1,2,3 and so on and thinking "I'm dreaming" when breathing out (you have to wake up at night btw), then when the counting got increasingly impossible due to loss of focus I proceeded to "watch the party of thoughts in my mind"- as in totally random/useless thoughts, but enjoyable somehow, after a while of doing that got hypnogogics (NOT some numbness- true hallucinations), and was then plunged into a very awesome and detailed dream- totally worth the trouble. Another hint I can give is when your body feels very tired and wants to "just give up" you should laugh at it and say "hehe, must be getting close now". Hope that was of some help!

^ beautifully answered

Okay... have you ever been lying in bed going to sleep when suddenly you notice you are thinking about something totally random and weird and you wonder where the thought came from and how you got to be thinking about that? Well, that is pretty much the first thing that happens when you body starts going to sleep. So... I suggest you do all your WILD prep and when you are lying on your back ready to begin try and clear your mind using yurithebest's technique above. What you are trying to do is "notice" these weird random thoughts. By having a clear mind you are more likely to notice the contrast when suddenly you are thinking a weird random thought. When you notice the thought (a sign you are making good progress) don't think too hard about it, just have the awareness of it being "weird" and try to keep your mind blank and just allow the thoughts to come and acknowledge them without getting caught up in them. After a while doing this you will hopefully experience some HI. Try not to get excited, just look at the imagery, or feel the vibrations or SP or whatever HI you are getting and let it happen. Be passive and keep a vague notion at the back of your mind of "i'm dreaming". Eventually you should find yourself in a LD or having a FA (which is essentially a LD). Do watch out for the FAs. They are very common when practising WILD and you will kick yourself if you are fooled by one. Do a RC every time you wake up to avoid missing a FA.

One more thing... HI is your friend, even if it is scary eg paralysis or severe vibrations. If you are experiencing HI then you are almost there. As soon as I experience HI I stay calm and just "go with it" and gently tell myself "I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming..."

Let us know how you get on

Well, I guess I better throw my two cents in here.

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

These are the steps to my WILD technique:

1. Get at least 5 to 5 1/2 hours (or more) of sleep (when using the Wake-Back-To-Bed technique).

2. Remember your goal (where you want to go, what you want to do, etc).

3. Dismiss any other thoughts and focus only on taking slow, deep breaths.

4. Remain COMPLETELY still, no matter what.

5. Try to steer clear of straying/abstract thoughts when entering SP (random/abstract thoughts means that the logical part of your brain is falling asleep, dont let it!).
(they can also cause you to enter a non-Lucid Dream which would make all this work was for nothing!)

6. Dont fight or resist SP in any way / stay relaxed and calm when it begins to happen.

7. Continue to focus only on your (slow, deep) breathing as vibrations, Hypnagogic Imagery, and auditory hallucinations become more intense from SP.

(you can focus on and/or visualize your goal once you think you've got the breathing part down packed).

8. Continue step 7 until you feel that sudden rush of falling through your bed or through the ceiling (in my case); this should mean that SP is complete, and hence you are ready to dream.

9. If you are not already in a dream scene, then spin around or rub your hands together (or both) in order to conjure up one. Doing this can also stabilize a fading/blurry dream scene.

There you have it, those are pretty much all the steps I take when Im attempting a WILD. And if it doesnt work the first time, remember that it takes time so dont give up! I know it seems like a lot, but once you've been through it many times, you will become better and better at it.

Ive emboldened step 5 for you because it seems to pertain most to your problem. The key, like DreamQueen said above, is to acknowledge these random, abstract thoughts but to not let them take hold of you completely. You have to try not to become too absorbed into them; although this has happened to me many times and is actually what makes us better at WILDing. If or when you fail a WILD, don't fail in vain; make sure that you learn from all of your mistakes whenever you fail an attempt at WILDing so that you'll know what to do in your future attempts at WILDing.

You can read every last piece of information in the world about WILDing but when it comes to actually WILDing, its practice that proves to be the most reliable source of information. Besides, everybody is different. You have to practice WILDing so that you'll become more and more familiar with how it feels when entering SP (Sleep Paralysis, the precursor to entering a dream when done with a WBTB). You're going to have to know what SP is, how it feels, how it affects you, and most importantly, how to react to it in the future.

Wow! WolfeDreamer531, your post is the best post I've ever read on this entire forum. It should be in the tutorial section. It's an absolutely perfect description of how to WILD.

Sorry, just had to say that

Originally Posted by SKA

Where I am falling asleep and trying to maintainawareness in the meantime.
I just get distracted by thoughts and dose off, Usually without SP. It all just seems to go blank no matter how hard or whatever I've thusfar tried to maintain awareness.

Ive been able to stay aware and let my body fall asleep pretty easliy....

> http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=42271

Im able to stay aware as my bodys trying to fall asleep.

Normaly i can only do this if im on my back. If i lay on my side, i goto sleep.

I found its easiest to stay aware when your trying to sleep in a uncomfortable position.

So if you don't like sleeping on your back. Try laying on your back and waiting for your body to goto sleep.

Keep your mind clear of any thoughts.


Well those are my suggestions to you

I tried counting breaths again last night and found it to be alot more easy to focus on than before. Also I made it a point to count from 1 to 10 and then back to 1 again to make it still possible when almost asleep. I was lying on my back and "getting deep" as a friend in distress called me. I know it needs to be done after about 4 to 6 hours of sleep, but it was a nice practice.

Too bad, but I will try again tonight and tomorrow morning as WBTB.
Another question though: So if I am able to continue counting untill I fall asleep...will the dream just appear? Or is there a moment where I'll have to switch my attention from breathing to the Dream?

That's a very tough question.
Like I said before everyone is different, so I think the delay between wakefulness and dreaming depends on the person. As you may have read already, it will be "blatantly" obvious that you are dreaming. First, you will have vibrations (feels something like painless, electrical currents running through your body), Hypnagogic Imagery, and auditory hallucinations. They will become more intense and apparent as you get farther into falling asleep. Then, they will continue to intensify until you feel that surge of energy (for lack of better words) rushing through you as the completion of the onset of SP begins (it feels something like falling through your bed). You cant possibly confuse this surging rush with anything else.

*I should note that this is the point where most new WILDers wake up from excitement/expectancy. Your heart rate might increase from the intensity of SP and from the realization that you're finally about to WILD (and a increased heart rate lets our bodies know that we are not unconscious). I cant stress the importance of focusing on your breathing when going through this enough. That's why its better for you to practice and feel what its like for yourself*

At that point, you will either already be dreaming or will be moments from it. If you're in a state of darkness, that's when you either rub your hands together and/or spin around to get into a dream scene. For me, I usually find myself back in my bed the majority of the time.
Whether one is dreaming or not, I believe, usually depends on what he/she is thinking about at the time they go into SP.

But dont rely on my information, keep on with the practicing until you get more accustomed to it, then my post will make a lot more sense to you.

Wolfedreamer531

yea that sudden surge of energy i think i had because i did a WBTB + WILD and after laying there for at least 1 hour and 20 minutes i felt like overwhelmed by the sudden surge of energy it was like nothing i ever felt before and my heart rate increased alot and i thought that it woke me up to much so i just quit but i didnt have any HI or anything


maintaining awarness isnt the problem for me its my heart rate increases alot

Another awesome post by WolfeDreamer. The only thing I would add is that you may not get any HI. Sometimes I lose consciousness during the transition to sleep and when I regain it I am already in the dream. When this happens I will sometimes become lucid straight away because I have spent the last 20 minutes or so expecting and waiting for imagery therefore I immediately pick up on the fact that I'm dreaming, but this is not always the case in which case it is a failed WILD

Just remember, if you do get HI then it is your friend because it is a sign that you are very close to being in a dream. So just go with whatever you are experiencing even if it is freaky and strange coz that's part of the fun of it all!

Originally Posted by c low

Wolfedreamer531

yea that sudden surge of energy i think i had because i did a WBTB + WILD and after laying there for at least 1 hour and 20 minutes i felt like overwhelmed by the sudden surge of energy it was like nothing i ever felt before and my heart rate increased alot and i thought that it woke me up to much so i just quit but i didnt have any HI or anything


maintaining awarness isnt the problem for me its my heart rate increases alot

Dont worry, it happens to the best of us.
This used to happen to me all the time back when I started WILDing; practicing is the only way to combat this problem when trying to WILD. Like one great WILDer once told me:

Originally Posted by Clairity

WolfeDreamer, every failure is a "learning experience"!

If you continue practicing with a solid technique (like minelol) and continue to improve in the areas that need improvement, then you're sure to get it. My advice (besides practice-practice-practice!) is to focus completely on taking slow and deep breaths. I never count my breathing b/c I get discouraged if I get too high but the choice is yours.

Originally Posted by c low

i didnt have any HI or anything

As to whether one has HI or not, I think that depends on how quickly he/she falls asleep. For instance, I have trouble falling asleep in general, so when I WILD (even with a WBTB), I takes me a long time to fall back to sleep, and hence I go through every stage consciously.
The rare times that I do fall asleep quickly , I dont really recall seeing any HI or anything like that; it seems that I skip HI and other stages the times I fall asleep fast and go straight into SP and dreaming.
Like DreamQueen said, you might not always get HI but when you do get it, its a good sign that you're getting somewhere. Acknowledge the presence of these images but try not make a big deal out of them as it can wake you.

Thanks alot Wolf. Very helpfull.
I know the surge you mention.

A couple of times I did WILD(surprisingly at night with no rpior sleep) and one of these times I suddenly saw a circle of bright white light. I willed myself forward, into it. As I entered I felt this intense surge. Went back, Tried again..5 times. but fell asleep unconscious afterall.

Now that focusing on breath has been a bit more effective I'll try to get to that state again.
Now FINALLY I've gotten people to be More specific in explaining WILD.
I will be using the advice given here and report back on it here with results and possible new problems I run into.
So eventually alot of the frequently, and perhaps less frequently asked WILD-questions concerning the focus of one's attention will be answered in this Topic for everyone who ha a hard time with WILD to read.

This Topic is on it's way of becomming a very good, practical, in depth WILD-F.A.Q. It may actually make tons of WILD-question Topics unnececairy if this Topic is Sticky'd.
So keep the WILD advice comming, know-how WILDers!

Originally Posted by SKA

Now FINALLY I've gotten people to be More specific in explaining WILD

Glad you got the answer you were looking for.

Originally Posted by SKA

Thanks alot Wolfe. Very helpfull.

Now FINALLY I've gotten people to be More specific in explaining WILD.
I will be using the advice given here and report back on it here with results and possible new problems I run into.
So eventually alot of the frequently, and perhaps less frequently asked WILD-questions concerning the focus of one's attention will be answered in this Topic for everyone who ha a hard time with WILD to read.

This Topic is on it's way of becomming a very good, practical, in depth WILD-F.A.Q. It may actually make tons of WILD-question Topics unnececairy if this Topic is Sticky'd.
So keep the WILD advice comming, know-how WILDers!

Alright, no problem, keep them questions coming and we'll do our best to answer them.
Im going to be going for a WILD w/ a WBTB tomorrow morning too so Ill report back if I left something out about entering the dream in one of my previous posts.

Guys,

Great thread. I actually set out to do similar here....

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...t=67632&page=4

Any additional input would be most welcome.

Yeah except I usually don't experience SP or HI. Only sometimes. And SP only when I'm on my back: A position I usually don't sleep in.

In the morning I'm usually Super confused and still 45% asleep, so remebering to do a WBTB+WILD and having the discipline in that fuzzy mindstate is quite a challenge to begin with, especially since I am suffering from my usual Wintertime Insomnia episodes.

I'm not there yet though, but even when I am I wish to continue adding WILD-focus advice to this Topic so it becomes of value for everyone having WILD-focus questions/problems. At the time getting to sleep at all is a challenge.

For now I'm going to stick to counting Breaths. Good point to make: 1 to 10 and back again makes it easier to keep track of counting. Even if you forgot where you were, even if you start counting like Breathe out-1, Breath in-2, Breathe out-...erhm 5, Breathe in- erm...7 as you get closer to sleep, just continue counting and don't care for proper chronology of counting.
I'll report back any progress and failure I come across in this WILD-endeavor.

Originally Posted by WolfeDreamer531

Well, I guess I better throw my two cents in here.


Ive emboldened step 5 for you because it seems to pertain most to your problem. The key, like DreamQueen said above, is to acknowledge these random, abstract thoughts but to not let them take hold of you completely. You have to try not to become too absorbed into them; although this has happened to me many times and is actually what makes us better at WILDing. If or when you fail a WILD, don't fail in vain; make sure that you learn from all of your mistakes whenever you fail an attempt at WILDing so that you'll know what to do in your future attempts at WILDing.

You can read every last piece of information in the world about WILDing but when it comes to actually WILDing, its practice that proves to be the most reliable source of information. Besides, everybody is different. You have to practice WILDing so that you'll become more and more familiar with how it feels when entering SP (Sleep Paralysis, the precursor to entering a dream when done with a WBTB). You're going to have to know what SP is, how it feels, how it affects you, and most importantly, how to react to it in the future.

Just after I read that yesterday I happened to have had a WILD just last night. Although I dont think it was a real one as it felt more like I was trying to WILD within a dream, hard to tell but I swear I was lying in a different position from my bed in my room.

All my attempts at WILD'ing failed. Then one night it just happened when I wasn't even thinking about WILD'ing or lucid dreaming. Pure luck. Other than that one I haven't had any. But I'm not even trying anymore lately, there are enough other techniques which are better for me that work.

Ska, have you tried reverse blinking to get you into that trance state? It is a great technique for people who have a racing mind, because it does not rely on thinking, imagining, or visualizing. It does not crowd your already busy brain with more thoughts.

Close your eyes, and breathe normally. Count each breath on the exhale. Now, every time you count, blink your eyes open and closed quickly. Just like you would blink normally, but backwards. If you do it right, you barely even get a chance to focus your vision. Just a flash of an image to interrupt any stray thoughts and fuel the visual centers of your mind.

Another thing I do is try to induce tactile hallucinations. It is a lot easier than it sounds. Just lie however is comfortable for you, then imagine your feet pushing into the bed. Push them down without moving them, if you know what I mean. Then, do the same thing with your head and neck. Push it into the bed. Don't actually flex any muscles, just push your energy and feel it happening. Alternate between pushing your feet into the bed, and pushing your head into the bed. When I do this for several minutes, I normally end up feeling some crazy separations and body distortions. Like I am spinning, rocking, and bending in impossible ways.

The actual mindset I aim for in a WILD, is one of separated consciousness. My mind feels more expansive than my body, and sort of floating. It is a definite physical feeling, like a drug induced high. It is not just a different way of thinking, it is a total change in mind/body awareness. If you've ever started from totally sober, then taken a huge rip off a bong, then just closed your eyes and waited, you know what I mean. You really feel it hit you.

I think that is a point often glossed over in WILD tutorials, or ignored by the reader. When they say "deep relaxation" they don't mean just lying down and relaxing physically. You have to really get into intense trance state relaxation.

ive only had it happen this way one time, and it was by accident.
it was around the time i had first started researching lucid dreaming and all i was doing was laying on my bed thinking about random stuff because i was bored and too tired to find something to do so i figured i would just lay around for a while. eventually i started feeling like i was falling asleep but i was still mostly conscious and it transitioned into a dream. in the dream i woke up in a hotel room and a couple of my friends were there, and this was the day after my birthday so i started asking them how i got there, wtf did we do last night, etc cuz i figured we got entirely too wasted and i couldnt remember how i got there and they had no answers for me so i walked across the room and a shirt flew off a chair and wrapped around my face and startled me so much that i woke up and then i realized it was a dream. that was my first lucid lol.
i hope what i described is what your talking about.