Thread: Stop Drop and Roll. Why Lucidology and Nicholas Newport are creating misinformation.

Originally Posted by arby

Just as a note, I don't like the way Newport and Jeff word things, that was half the point of my first post.



I am only defending the method, which works. Even if we don't know why. I measure success not only by the length, but by the sheer volume of people in that thread that report good experiences and seem to be able to relate.

Unfortunately, this method of teaching is the only way people pay attention, and in cases such as this it works well! You cannot deny that this works well, even though he doesn't give proper science.

Giving the theory behind a technique is an assured way to make sure nobody ever uses it. I've seen this happen time and time again. The second you start taking about the parasympathetic nervous system and medulla, which essentially represent "the body" in this simple example, people click the back button.

PS: SP doesn't occur during REM. Sleep paralysis refers DISTINCTLY to paralysis when you are conscious.



I'm always thrilled when there is evidence that people have actually bothered read my posts -_-

I think it's fair to call paralysis whilst you are asleep"sleep paraysis"

You're kind of right if you want to get finikity about it , I was using the term sleep paralysis because it is more readily understood than REM Atonia for most people.
However Sleep Paralysis will only occur as a result of REM atonia, because its exactly the same process occuring.

Depends if you are refering to sleep paralysis as a sleep disorder, or sleeping paralysis as a function of REM.


ps. I think DreamQueen read your post, but unfortunatly, neither Newport nor Jeff makes the distinctions you make. They claim, in a seemingly straightforward way, that the "body" tests the "mind", which is clearly hokum.
Just because you choose to interpret what they say in a more thoughtful manner, does not excuse either of their lack of clarity on the subject. It's a misleading choice of word. Of which I would agree with you that "new age" speak is dangerous territory.


Anyway, enough of semantics.
The points are clear...
The theory does not stand up even if people do have success with the techniques. That is a dangerous combination for creating unfounded belief systems. It's much wiser and more humble to simply say "this technique works for me but im not sure why" than "this technique works... and here is my half baked explanation why"

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

You're kind of right if you want to get finikity about it , I was using the term sleep paralysis because it is more readily understood than REM Atonia for most people.

Thanks, this was what I was hoping for to prove a point.

On this site, we don't use words to accurately describe what we mean. We use random terms that are general, simplified descriptors of what we are talking about and make it up to others to properly interpret our words. Just like I have to interpret your SP as REM atonia, does it not make sense that you should try and interpret jeff's use of the work "body" as the part of the mind that controls it, rather then interpret it as the liver or spleen, which makes no sense whatsoever.

Of course, Newport makes it terribly clear what his interpretation is and his head is somewhere off in crazy land where spirits inhabit your body.

But yeah.... you can't treat this community, in it's current state, as a scientific community at all =/. People use so much bullshit terminology here it's not even funny. Did you know "subconscious" isn't actually a real term? There doesn't exist the subconscious in any of the standard models of the mind. Of course, if you try to use the true descriptors such as preconscious or unconscious, people don't understand you or laugh at you. (I had one guy laugh and say "Hey, unconscious is when someone knocks you out!" which is enough to make Freud roll over in his grave.)

So yeah... my point is there's more Newport-esque misinformation even on this site then we'd like... but at least it doesn't come along with a BS sales pitch =/

This is one of the reasons I don't frequent here anymore =O

Originally Posted by arby

you can't treat this community, in it's current state, as a scientific community at all =/. People use so much bullshit terminology here it's not even funny/...

.../there's more Newport-esque misinformation even on this site then we'd like... but at least it doesn't come along with a BS sales pitch =/

This is one of the reasons I don't frequent here anymore =O

mmh... it's sad to see what could be going on here...