Thread: Stop Drop and Roll. Why Lucidology and Nicholas Newport are creating misinformation.

yes, i totally agree with you that his science is way off key. he is one of those guys that knows nothing about science and just says thing that he thinks would "make sense", even tho if he had a clue about biology and how the brain works he wud know that it is complete BS!

When I was first starting out lding, I stumbled upon these videos before this site. I thought that the videos were really interesting and (even though Im ashamed to say it) bought the science he taught.
None of it ever worked, and it wasn't until about 8 months later and a lot of DILD work that i actually had an ld.

Bump.
I think this thread should be stickied.

Hmm.. quite a debate around here...

After reading this thread (that's a lot), you are attacking Newport's idea by telling your own idea. Newport has his own opinion and he even used his time by creating such presentation. Can you even do that?

Now, I even have a copy of his 102 and read and watched all its content. There's nothing wrong really. He presented everything in his own perspective. Besides all the basics, which is 101, are presented in youtube for free. He doesn't force you to buy 102, well, no one can really force anyone.

I think anyone who oppose Newport is someone who is actually disapproving of his way of selling his idea, which is in 102. Everyone has its own way, you can share it for free, advertise it, or even sell it. To each of its own.

And saying, "His graph is crap".. LOL... as everyone is different. Not all methods and techniques that worked to A will work to B. Those graph might worked for him, Newport. Well, of course, you are different from him, so you said that is "crap". Well, again, what I can see here is that you don't even tried to understand the graph because your mind is too focusing on bringing his idea down.

I'm not Newport..LOL.. maybe someone would say something like this, and I learned a lot from this forum.

You know, the best way to gain knowledge is to learn it from all angles. If there's a new idea, try to incorporate it with your already gathered facts. That's why we have brain don't we?


Sorry, if I got any wrong grammar here, as I'm not a native English speaker.. LOL

Originally Posted by robrave

You know, the best way to gain knowledge is to learn it from all angles. If there's a new idea, try to incorporate it with your already gathered facts. That's why we have brain don't we?


Sorry, if I got any wrong grammar here, as I'm not a native English speaker.. LOL

The simple fact is...

Newport is NOT an expert.
He is an average guy, with a couple of years lucid dreaming experience, who is trying to set himself up as an expert.

His methods contradict science and what is already known about lucid dreamin, and his approach is that of a salesman.

He also insists in creating a completely new set of terminology on the subject, one that only HE understands... a classic way to become an "instant expert", whilst actually knowing nothing.

The question is this... would you rather learn real information or false information?

If you don't care, that's ok it's your choice.
However for those of us who want to spend our precious time and energy well, we don't want to waste our time learning nonsense from someone who seems more interested in promoting their own agenda than teaching the truth.

I am just curious. I posed this question on a different thread, but wouldn't mind bringing it up again. Sorry for going off topic. If in your opinion Newport is not an expert, who do you think is an expert? The person can be an expert either on or off of these forums. I am just curious because I love to learn from the best. For instance, I have lucid dreams pretty frequently. I had one today for instance. But often times the forums are filled with people who have had 10 WILDS and now they consider themselves to be an "expert". I would like to know who the people are that really understand lucid dreaming inside and out.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

The simple fact is...

Newport is NOT an expert.
He is an average guy, with a couple of years lucid dreaming experience, who is trying to set himself up as an expert.

His methods contradict science and what is already known about lucid dreamin, and his approach is that of a salesman.

He also insists in creating a completely new set of terminology on the subject, one that only HE understands... a classic way to become an "instant expert", whilst actually knowing nothing.

The question is this... would you rather learn real information or false information?

If you don't care, that's ok it's your choice.
However for those of us who want to spend our precious time and energy well, we don't want to waste our time learning nonsense from someone who seems more interested in promoting their own agenda than teaching the truth.

Oh I see..

I think you focused mostly on the way he delivered his idea. I think I can't even remember he actually said he was an expert, though I might be wrong here.

If you can watch and read all his movies and pdfs, it mostly centered on OBEs. Which I believe is actually our spirit leaving our bodies in might be contradicting to what others believe that it is just a dream scene of your bedroom. I have already read a lot of books on OBEs and they somehow matches his method. That's why I can grasp what he is really talking about.

The question is this... would you rather learn real information or false information?

Of course, real information. Are you justifying that he is giving out false information? I guess you even haven't watched half of his videos. Am I right?

However for those of us who want to spend our precious time and energy well, we don't want to waste our time learning nonsense from someone who seems more interested in promoting their own agenda than teaching the truth.

You are saying that his idea is nonsense. Maybe because it is different from what you believe?


A lot of people judge a novel after just skimming Chapter 1.

Originally Posted by robrave

Oh I see..

I think you focused mostly on the way he delivered his idea. I think I can't even remember he actually said he was an expert, though I might be wrong here.

If you can watch and read all his movies and pdfs, it mostly centered on OBEs. Which I believe is actually our spirit leaving our bodies in might be contradicting to what others believe that it is just a dream scene of your bedroom. I have already read a lot of books on OBEs and they somehow matches his method. That's why I can grasp what he is really talking about.



Of course, real information. Are you justifying that he is giving out false information? I guess you even haven't watched half of his videos. Am I right?




You are saying that his idea is nonsense. Maybe because it is different from what you believe?


A lot of people judge a novel after just skimming Chapter 1.

I've watched all of his available videos, i'm unwilling to pay for his other material.

This isn't about what I believe, What I believe is really not relevant, It's about established scientific facts about sleep which have been proven regardless of what any of us believe. Newport seems happy to throw out them of the window.

In response to the question from SomethingElse,

I think the first thing anyone should do to establish the credentials of someone claiming to be an expert, is to educate themselves. Get a basic understanding about the science of sleep, I'd recommend a book like "Counting Sheep". Then when reviewing the material of people who claim to be experts, establish if they appear educated on the basics... do they make claims that contradict already known facts? (if they do, do they KNOW they are doing this, if they don't, that's a bad sign, if they do do they offer a credible reason for doing so?)

It's very difficult to judge the credentials of an expert on face value, but there are some details that may help... such as what is their educational background? What if any "in the field" experience have they had, How do other experts respond to them?.

But really, it's not that tricky, how would you establish an exepert in another field? say biology?
Would you trust the guy with 2 years of reading books at home and a youtube account, over say a lecturer at Oxford University?

spaceexplorer, you are quite interesting. I can feel your anger against those people who overly exaggerating things, making up testimonials and other marketing strategies to sell.

OFFTOPIC: I have one request of you, can you take a look at this website and tell me what is your view about it?

ONTOPIC:
You don't need to buy Newport 102 material. 102 are his advanced techniques using everything from 101 (which are available in public, youtube etc) to facilitate learning of OBEs and LDs. Meaning, he is not selling the core of his ideas.

For me, his ideas are valid when vieweng OBEs and LDs in somewhat bizarre angle. There is nothing wrong with it. It was based on his years of experience and the feedback of those who had tried his methods. He didn't say he was an expert either, as far as I remember.

As everybody is different, we developed our own styles and techniques, might worked for some, or utterly useless with others. Saying someones ideas as crap, useless and nonsense are degrading themselves as a person. Just because they can't comprehend the others ideas.

But really, it's not that tricky, how would you establish an exepert in another field? say biology?
Would you trust the guy with 2 years of reading books at home and a youtube account, over say a lecturer at Oxford University?

The difference between the first guy and the lecturer is that the lecturer has more practical experiences. But this doesn't mean, first guys' views and ideas are crap and nonsense or something trying to throw the science on biology when he accidentally stumbled a discovery of his own that contradict the current established on biology facts.


Though, I'm wondering, why does he need to use a microphone that large while he is presenting. A clip-on microphone is more trendy

Well I'm glad you told me about this because I was actually buying into his techniques a few days ago and I'm a newbie.

Y'know I'm just trying to find a shortcut to get into lucid dreaming now on demand.

I hate the thought of using any drugs or machines to become lucid. Despite the fact you'll probably turn it into a dependancy, its much more satisfying to know that your practice and persistence has paid off.

Originally Posted by wRembrandt

Well I'm glad you told me about this because I was actually buying into his techniques a few days ago and I'm a newbie.

Y'know I'm just trying to find a shortcut to get into lucid dreaming now on demand.

Even if you buy it, you still need persistence and patience. I'm on his 1st week of Sleep Training and I can't follow it because I don't have timer. If I use my cellphone, it alarms too loud and would wake everyone in the house LOL.

Originally Posted by robrave

Even if you buy it, you still need persistence and patience. I'm on his 1st week of Sleep Training and I can't follow it because I don't have timer. If I use my cellphone, it alarms too loud and would wake everyone in the house LOL.

robrave- you might get a few LD's out of his techniques, no one denies that. however what you are following is a very watered down commercialized "packaged" version of something free.

things to do for you.

1. read this entire thread from the very beginning (might take an hour or so)
2.read the DV tutorials.

Originally Posted by yuriythebest

robrave- you might get a few LD's out of his techniques, no one denies that. however what you are following is a very watered down commercialized "packaged" version of something free.

things to do for you.

1. read this entire thread from the very beginning (might take an hour or so)
2.read the DV tutorials.

1. I stopped halfway because it all just arguments of their beliefs.
2. I have already read all DV tutorials yesterday.

Maybe. But before I found his techniques, I have been to a few sites. Like Ld4all.

Duuude.


You told me to watch all of his videos.. x_x

You know... he is also the author of saltcube video that Jeff has shared.

There is nothing wrong with his method, there are just some people that call it was "crap" just because they can't understand it.

yeah, i watched a few of his videos and i was like WTF? He looks professional and has nice graphs but most of the information is irrelevant and leads you astray. I remember watching something about seritonin and meletonin levels and although the technique was true, it was mostly mindless time wasting data. Reece Jones is the best on youtube as far as DILDs go.

Originally Posted by sheogorath

Reece Jones is the best on youtube as far as DILDs go.

yeah but his recent videos seem too "out there"

I get his newsletter all the time and most of his techniques are from other publications and books but the other problem I think is he combined OBE and Lucid Dreaming into one thing which confuse a lot of people who's only trying to learn either OBE or Lucid Dreaming.

As far as him creating his own jargon, seems like a lot of folks in this field do that to up their street cred.


WILD, SP, aps, OBE, DILD, ...blah blah

Originally Posted by TheDreamKing

I get his newsletter all the time and most of his techniques are from other publications and books but the other problem I think is he combined OBE and Lucid Dreaming into one thing which confuse a lot of people who's only trying to learn either OBE or Lucid Dreaming.

Haven't all Astral Travellers confused Lucid Dreaming with OBEs though.

lmaao,
i remember watching that video in the beggining.
and i knew somewhat about lucid dreaming,
and i felt SO stupid.
i did NOT understand anything this guy was saying.

now i know i shouldn't feel dumb.

I tried it and i had my first lucid the first time I tried it. it works fine and is just a easy shortcut. Go timer induced lucid dream.

....I say he has some good tips at best.

An advanced lucid dreamer should be able to weed out the bogus, and keep the good points.

Anyways, if it works, who cares how it works?