Thanks for your thoughts Sageous. As difficult as it may be, this is more fun than arguing with Masons. I just finished a several hour post on another forum. I make a statement, and in response am asked to justify it with quotes from relevant texts. I do that, its all ignored completely, and some other statement I previously made is pulled out of context and challenged. Its like fighting a hydra. All I was trying to do to start with was to be helpful, to answer someone else's question in an uncontroversial way without contradicting anyone else's beliefs. Then someone finds something to take issue with, and it turns into a quagmire. I decide I'll just stop, but the implication is always that if I don't answer a challenge its because I can't. So when someone else who seems sincere wanders into the forum, I fear I have left a false impression by omission. And I do care about those people, in part because I know what its like to be one. So I try to answer what was asked of me. I hope its done now, for me anyway.