white vampires

[gander]

white vampires are very subtle, they only marginally are part of the dreams. their principle is to stay in the shadows and they never seem to be talking to anyone. they blend in even though their dress-code is all about trench-coats and such. I learned about them from a dream-character who once had contact with them and was about to become a member. from that dream-character I learned that there exists a particular ability in dreams which dreamers usually don't notice at all. and the worst property of this ability is that it can only be trained while awake and not in dreams. I have learned many more dream-abilities that can only be trained while awake, but this one seems to be the most useful for a lucid dreamer. I learned the basic subtext on which this ability is based. they believe that the reason why some lucid dreams are longer than others is because of being intended to be longer by the surrounding dream-characters. the idea is that we create our own dreams and this way we expend our most important ressource, our raison-d'etre, our intent. the more complicated the dream the less reason for the actual dreamer to be part of it. so logically one possibility to prolong the dream is to reduce details, so the whole dream revolves around the dreamer. but what's the point of lucid dreaming then when you cannot see anything? so the other logical possibility is to force the environment to give back some of that "intent" we so readily have put into creating it. now that's an extremely abstract concept, and one has to be careful not to confuse "someone intending me to be there" with "someone wishing for me to be there". basically a large crowd cheering for the fighters in an arena are merely wishing for the fighters to be there, after the fight the fighters are expendable and not part of the audience's intentionality. you could put up puppets into the arena and the audience would keep on cheering. however, to prolong a dream you must make people of that dream expect you to be there, the real you and not whatever hallucination or archetype. the more you are entangled into their reality the longer your dream will last. there is just one minor caveat to this: most dream-characters are not able to actually perceive you! they might be monsters seemingly chasing you or they might seem to be talking and otherwise interacting with you, but all that is just sort of a hallucination you made up to make the dream less dull. all dream-characters can is to sense the emotions you feel to them, but for lack of other perception they often believe those emotions would originate from other dream-characters or from themselves. they instinctively follow you because of those emotions, and thereby lucid dreams in which you are chased are among the longest. but it is possible to make the dreams even more stable than that simply because the creature chasing you might not be totally aware of actually chasing anyone. so there is a simple method for training this ability. all you need to do is to fulfill wishes of people, while you are awake. of course it is more polite to only do that when people explicitely allow you to fulfill their wishes, and in my experience this is also sufficient. and that's the reason why white vampires are calling themselves that, they are sort of angels from the point of view of people, but in their own interpretation they are stealing something. it isn't blood they are after, but something equally valuable: real-life experience! if people would actually fulfill their own wishes, all alone, they would have obtained life-experience. but since the white vampire did do that task, it's the white vampire who gets that experience and it's the white vampire who then gets perceived by people as a means to an end. i.e. by doing that you will expend "intent" for the very activity of fulfilling someone's wish, and in return you get back "intent" from that person. the activity of reaching a goal is much alike to creating a dream, your whole perception is preprogrammed in a certain way so that lateron you are unable to see things as something else. for example take the saying "if all you have is a hammer, then everything will seem to be nails." by the activity of perpetually solving various problems with only one and the same tool over and over again, you shift your perception to focus more on how problems can be solved by that tool. so this tool becomes more strongly "intentionalized" by you to be there where it is. this will sort of force that tool to be in place whenever you need it. similarily, by repeatedly fulfilling someone's wishes you will be forced into a situation where that person often has you at hand whenever a problem needs to be solved. so the exercise is to balance that wish-fulfilling with the freedom to leave whenever you want. (otherwise you'd be stuck in your lucid dreams with recurrent dream-characters.) another thing one must take into account that the very ability to fall asleep might depend on similar mechanisms. to put it into a metaphor, when all your life you keep on using a hammer for everything, then don't be surprised that the only way for you to fall asleep is to knock yourself out with it. that's why white vampires always stay hidden and always try to blend in. excessive use of one and the same tools will give the tools too much importance and thereby tie you up in one place. your intentionality about the tool not only binds the tool to wherever you are, it also binds you to wherever that tool can go. if you aren't careful with that training, you might lose the ability to actually lucidly dream or to remember your dreams. if you stay in the shadows all your life long, it will be impossible for you to keep on using one and the same tools, it's an effective protection from that danger... once you have some training with helping people in real life, you can start trying to touch dream-characters in your lucid dreams. the idea is to touch them in the very same way as you touch the lives of people you help while awake. talking to dream-characters is also effective, or better yet combine the two. touching the dream-character will enable better communication with it, you will see the world through that dream-character's eyes. also you must pay attention to how you touch the dream-character, much alike to paying attention to how you touch a real-life person you want to comfort after whatever loss. a symmetric touch wont work at all (except for creating a connection) and asymmetric touch bears the danger that this dream-character gets more from you than the other way around. (symmetric means both touch eachother in exactly the same way in exactly the same positions of the body.) the way how to touch people can be learned both in the dreams as in reality. basically you just observe how you react to being touched in particular ways. some ways of touching you make the other person more important to you than others. in the dreams one must be careful though, the way one is touched also alters the intensity of emotions passed on this way, and too much emotions will remove the person's attention from the actual person touching to those emotions. in a lucid dream that means the person you touch will completely disappear, overwhelmed by your emotions and lacking your own support by the one-sided transfer of ld-time. but in general it is inevitable that the person you touched will eventually disappear, so you'd better keep an eye for another one. some white vampires have told me how to touch people and what to avoid, but there simply is so much to learn that actual real-life experience is much more effective.

[EbbTide000]

Who r "U" This is off-the-scale good stuff (imo). Heaps of it resonate with me. The rest I need to study more deeply. Thanx gander white vampires are very subtle, they only marginally are part of the dreams. their principle is to stay in the shadows and they never seem to be talking to anyone. they blend in even though their dress-code is all about trench-coats and such. I learned about them from a dream-character who once had contact with them and was about to become a member. from that dream-character I learned that there exists a particular ability in dreams which dreamers usually don't notice at all. and the worst property of this ability is that it can only be trained while awake and not in dreams. I have learned many more dream-abilities that can only be trained while awake, but this one seems to be the most useful for a lucid dreamer. I learned the basic subtext on which this ability is based. they believe that the reason why some lucid dreams are longer than others is because of being intended to be longer by the surrounding dream-characters. the idea is that we create our own dreams and this way we expend our most important ressource, our raison-d'etre, our intent. the more complicated the dream the less reason for the actual dreamer to be part of it. so logically one possibility to prolong the dream is to reduce details, so the whole dream revolves around the dreamer. but what's the point of lucid dreaming then when you cannot see anything? so the other logical possibility is to force the environment to give back some of that "intent" we so readily have put into creating it. now that's an extremely abstract concept, and one has to be careful not to confuse "someone intending me to be there" with "someone wishing for me to be there". basically a large crowd cheering for the fighters in an arena are merely wishing for the fighters to be there, after the fight the fighters are expendable and not part of the audience's intentionality. you could put up puppets into the arena and the audience would keep on cheering. however, to prolong a dream you must make people of that dream expect you to be there, the real you and not whatever hallucination or archetype. the more you are entangled into their reality the longer your dream will last. there is just one minor caveat to this: most dream-characters are not able to actually perceive you! they might be monsters seemingly chasing you or they might seem to be talking and otherwise interacting with you, but all that is just sort of a hallucination you made up to make the dream less dull. all dream-characters can is to sense the emotions you feel to them, but for lack of other perception they often believe those emotions would originate from other dream-characters or from themselves. they instinctively follow you because of those emotions, and thereby lucid dreams in which you are chased are among the longest. but it is possible to make the dreams even more stable than that simply because the creature chasing you might not be totally aware of actually chasing anyone. so there is a simple method for training this ability. all you need to do is to fulfill wishes of people, while you are awake. of course it is more polite to only do that when people explicitely allow you to fulfill their wishes, and in my experience this is also sufficient. and that's the reason why white vampires are calling themselves that, they are sort of angels from the point of view of people, but in their own interpretation they are stealing something. it isn't blood they are after, but something equally valuable: real-life experience! if people would actually fulfill their own wishes, all alone, they would have obtained life-experience. but since the white vampire did do that task, it's the white vampire who gets that experience and it's the white vampire who then gets perceived by people as a means to an end. i.e. by doing that you will expend "intent" for the very activity of fulfilling someone's wish, and in return you get back "intent" from that person. the activity of reaching a goal is much alike to creating a dream, your whole perception is preprogrammed in a certain way so that lateron you are unable to see things as something else. for example take the saying "if all you have is a hammer, then everything will seem to be nails." by the activity of perpetually solving various problems with only one and the same tool over and over again, you shift your perception to focus more on how problems can be solved by that tool. so this tool becomes more strongly "intentionalized" by you to be there where it is. this will sort of force that tool to be in place whenever you need it. similarily, by repeatedly fulfilling someone's wishes you will be forced into a situation where that person often has you at hand whenever a problem needs to be solved. so the exercise is to balance that wish-fulfilling with the freedom to leave whenever you want. (otherwise you'd be stuck in your lucid dreams with recurrent dream-characters.) another thing one must take into account that the very ability to fall asleep might depend on similar mechanisms. to put it into a metaphor, when all your life you keep on using a hammer for everything, then don't be surprised that the only way for you to fall asleep is to knock yourself out with it. that's why white vampires always stay hidden and always try to blend in. excessive use of one and the same tools will give the tools too much importance and thereby tie you up in one place. your intentionality about the tool not only binds the tool to wherever you are, it also binds you to wherever that tool can go. if you aren't careful with that training, you might lose the ability to actually lucidly dream or to remember your dreams. if you stay in the shadows all your life long, it will be impossible for you to keep on using one and the same tools, it's an effective protection from that danger... once you have some training with helping people in real life, you can start trying to touch dream-characters in your lucid dreams. the idea is to touch them in the very same way as you touch the lives of people you help while awake. talking to dream-characters is also effective, or better yet combine the two. touching the dream-character will enable better communication with it, you will see the world through that dream-character's eyes. also you must pay attention to how you touch the dream-character, much alike to paying attention to how you touch a real-life person you want to comfort after whatever loss. a symmetric touch wont work at all (except for creating a connection) and asymmetric touch bears the danger that this dream-character gets more from you than the other way around. (symmetric means both touch eachother in exactly the same way in exactly the same positions of the body.) the way how to touch people can be learned both in the dreams as in reality. basically you just observe how you react to being touched in particular ways. some ways of touching you make the other person more important to you than others. in the dreams one must be careful though, the way one is touched also alters the intensity of emotions passed on this way, and too much emotions will remove the person's attention from the actual person touching to those emotions. in a lucid dream that means the person you touch will completely disappear, overwhelmed by your emotions and lacking your own support by the one-sided transfer of ld-time. but in general it is inevitable that the person you touched will eventually disappear, so you'd better keep an eye for another one. some white vampires have told me how to touch people and what to avoid, but there simply is so much to learn that actual real-life experience is much more effective.

[TwoCrystalCups]

Well, i got no problem of these white vampires standing in the shadows and blending in. As long as i don't sense negativity, i won't fight or start problems, i would do what ever i need to do in my dream and achieve my goals. I see them a lot maybe because they find me facinating in dreams I am able to touch dream characters, but there is 1 that is very very strong with it's energy, and it's a guy that i know from long ago and we lost touch with each other, we both know we like each other and the attraction is very intense, every time i touch him or he comes close into my aura space he disappears but when that happens there is an intense emotion felt with it, and it seems like he can't handle it more than i do, and he doesn't have this experience as i do. I was able to kiss him and got to that point and then everything went blank but i did it in quick action because i knew once we get close my dream will end. In my opinion it is not from me that i can't handle the emotions, i am very well adapted to it, i know it's on his part he can't manage it to keep us longer in the dream. it is very frustrating. And he does keep returning in my dreams, sometimes when i don't expect it, and sometimes when i do. I never forgot, when i was still seeing him long ago in real life, he came in my dreams one day and touched me and it was so intense it lasted one second, and when my dream went blank i actually was waking up feeling like my body was sinking into my bed! i jolted and took a sec to think and thought, Oh it was just my spirit sinking or moving! O.o soo strange. But i really do think it is him coming in my dreams, this is no dream character! Because all of my other dream characters are fine with me touching them. This i got is totally different, maybe a telepathic/meeting dream, imo. I do have telepathic moments from him sometimes in waking life, and the last one was very intense, i had to just concentrate on what i am recieving for a long period.

[gander]

who I am is probably not as interesting as my past postings. I guess the best place to look at is alt.dreams.lucid where I used to post many years ago. I did use x-no-archive, so you wont find much though. as for shared dreams and such, there is one simple question I'd like to ask everyone believing in them: there are billions of people on earth, 1/3 of them asleep, and among them most likely there exists someone who is extremely similar to the person you believe to have dreamed of, so how can one ever be sure the dream-character is the actual person one believed him/her to be and not someone similar? supposed animals would have a mind very similar to ours but we just are unable to understand their language, maybe one of those animals really is sharing this dream with you and not the person you believe it to be? and what about aliens, don't they dream too? it's very presumptous to believe that only people who are part of our lives would visit our dreams. either those people close to us intentionally visit our dreams or some sort of higher force makes sure they do. both possibilities are obviously not very likely and serve no practical use. now suppose there would be such a think like aliens, if your relatives would have the ability to intentionally visit your dreams, don't you think those aliens could abuse that very same ability in a conscious way to make you believe it would have been visited by those relatives? wouldn't people close to you as part of your dreams rather evoke suspicion and paranoia? did you ever ask a dream-character things that only that person could know and that couldn't have been extracted from your memories by telepathy? did you ever ask the people who presumable shared a dream with you what they were doing at the time of your dream? or did you at least ask the dream-character from what time-frame of that person they really are, in order to later ask the real-life person about that time-frame? and if the time-frame did match, did you never wonder why the details didn't? dreams are great since they allow us to feel what is impossible to feel in reality. emotions in a dream are simply in a much higher league that real-life emotions. most importantly, they are easier to focus in a dream, while in reality emotions tend to get scattered all around, with us hugging the post-man for whatever letter he brought. it's nice that you feed your night-mare monsters with positive emotions for a change, good you hold recurrent dream-characters as a pet. (or is it you who is their pet?) but don't you have anything better to do with your lucid dreams?

[EbbTide000]

Gander My take on "all that" is that we are one mind in billions of different bodies. When an individual "intends", then the one mind (the unified matrix) responds. This not only causes strange dreams but strange syncronicities in waking life too. who I am is probably not as interesting as my past postings. I guess the best place to look at is alt.dreams.lucid where I used to post many years ago. I did use x-no-archive, so you wont find much though. as for shared dreams and such, there is one simple question I'd like to ask everyone believing in them: there are billions of people on earth, 1/3 of them asleep, and among them most likely there exists someone who is extremely similar to the person you believe to have dreamed of, so how can one ever be sure the dream-character is the actual person one believed him/her to be and not someone similar? supposed animals would have a mind very similar to ours but we just are unable to understand their language, maybe one of those animals really is sharing this dream with you and not the person you believe it to be? and what about aliens, don't they dream too? it's very presumptous to believe that only people who are part of our lives would visit our dreams. either those people close to us intentionally visit our dreams or some sort of higher force makes sure they do. both possibilities are obviously not very likely and serve no practical use. now suppose there would be such a think like aliens, if your relatives would have the ability to intentionally visit your dreams, don't you think those aliens could abuse that very same ability in a conscious way to make you believe it would have been visited by those relatives? wouldn't people close to you as part of your dreams rather evoke suspicion and paranoia? did you ever ask a dream-character things that only that person could know and that couldn't have been extracted from your memories by telepathy? did you ever ask the people who presumable shared a dream with you what they were doing at the time of your dream? or did you at least ask the dream-character from what time-frame of that person they really are, in order to later ask the real-life person about that time-frame? and if the time-frame did match, did you never wonder why the details didn't? dreams are great since they allow us to feel what is impossible to feel in reality. emotions in a dream are simply in a much higher league that real-life emotions. most importantly, they are easier to focus in a dream, while in reality emotions tend to get scattered all around, with us hugging the post-man for whatever letter he brought. it's nice that you feed your night-mare monsters with positive emotions for a change, good you hold recurrent dream-characters as a pet. (or is it you who is their pet?) but don't you have anything better to do with your lucid dreams?

[TwoCrystalCups]

LOL I think you are asking too much questions than you are capable of dealing with. All i can say is never question someones dreams, because only they know what's going on. For example me, I know my own dreams and how and what i sense in them, if i sense things are not right in waking life the same as in my dreams, then i have mastered my dream control abilities. And about the DC i meet with recurringly, i know it's the person i know in waking life. I have the sense abilities mastered, and i know what he wears, typically a red hat, and his features is what i know of and all. I don't think someone can trick my senses though, which is hard to do. who I am is probably not as interesting as my past postings. I guess the best place to look at is alt.dreams.lucid where I used to post many years ago. I did use x-no-archive, so you wont find much though. as for shared dreams and such, there is one simple question I'd like to ask everyone believing in them: there are billions of people on earth, 1/3 of them asleep, and among them most likely there exists someone who is extremely similar to the person you believe to have dreamed of, so how can one ever be sure the dream-character is the actual person one believed him/her to be and not someone similar? supposed animals would have a mind very similar to ours but we just are unable to understand their language, maybe one of those animals really is sharing this dream with you and not the person you believe it to be? and what about aliens, don't they dream too? it's very presumptous to believe that only people who are part of our lives would visit our dreams. either those people close to us intentionally visit our dreams or some sort of higher force makes sure they do. both possibilities are obviously not very likely and serve no practical use. now suppose there would be such a think like aliens, if your relatives would have the ability to intentionally visit your dreams, don't you think those aliens could abuse that very same ability in a conscious way to make you believe it would have been visited by those relatives? wouldn't people close to you as part of your dreams rather evoke suspicion and paranoia? did you ever ask a dream-character things that only that person could know and that couldn't have been extracted from your memories by telepathy? did you ever ask the people who presumable shared a dream with you what they were doing at the time of your dream? or did you at least ask the dream-character from what time-frame of that person they really are, in order to later ask the real-life person about that time-frame? and if the time-frame did match, did you never wonder why the details didn't? dreams are great since they allow us to feel what is impossible to feel in reality. emotions in a dream are simply in a much higher league that real-life emotions. most importantly, they are easier to focus in a dream, while in reality emotions tend to get scattered all around, with us hugging the post-man for whatever letter he brought. it's nice that you feed your night-mare monsters with positive emotions for a change, good you hold recurrent dream-characters as a pet. (or is it you who is their pet?) but don't you have anything better to do with your lucid dreams?

[gander]

LOL I think you are asking too much questions than you are capable of dealing with. All i can say is never question someones dreams, because only they know what's going on. For example me, I know my own dreams and how and what i sense in them, if i sense things are not right in waking life the same as in my dreams, then i have mastered my dream control abilities. And about the DC i meet with recurringly, i know it's the person i know in waking life. I have the sense abilities mastered, and i know what he wears, typically a red hat, and his features is what i know of and all. I don't think someone can trick my senses though, which is hard to do. I am not questioning anyone's dreams! I am talking of what we do when we are awake. when I am awake I put doubt onto everything, especially I am paranoid about my dreaming-self's knowledge. for example assuming everyone's intents get fulfilled by some big mind-matrix we all are part of, wouldn't that mean that any group of multiple people could subvert the individual's intents? maybe the red hats someone in a dream is wearing are really just the creation of some malicious being who just pulled out that info from the dreamer's mind? a single person can only be aware of so many details, but a group can definitely take care of much more than that, depending on how big that group. during a dream the rational mind is weakened, therefore there are no doubts in dreams. this isn't a bad thing, nothing good ever came from doubts, but fact is we do have the capability to think rationally and to cast doubt on anything and it would be a waste of that ability if it wouldn't also be applied to past dream-experiences. afterall, doubts is where dream-experiments are supposed to originate from. if a lucid dreamer wouldn't have doubts then lucid dreams would be uneventful and perpetually of hedonistic nature. that's why I'm surprised that people who believe in shared dreams do not make use of doubting, especially not of doubting the own dreaming-self's sanity. imho someone who just accepts the dreaming-self's claim "this is that person for real" isn't any better than someone who uses lucid dreams only as sex-dreams. shared dreams shouldn't come for free! I would be terrified if the world would work the way that anyone could experience shared dreams without any efforts whatsoever!

[EbbTide000]

I am not questioning anyone's dreams! (...) for example assuming everyone's intent gets fulfilled by some big mind-matrix that we all are part of, wouldn't that mean that any group of multiple people could subvert the individual's intents? DebraJanes reply "No" Gander My views are very different to most everyone elses. Because: 40 years years ago something off-the-scale happened to me. To put it very briefly I went to meditate. Then I pleasantly shrunk. Then, after a while I became aware, moving through clear-light. Then there were organic clear-skinned cells and I wobbled into one. This made me a me. I said out loud, thoughtfully, to to myself "This is Truth" A voice behind my left shoulder said "No, this is not Truth" I wasn't expecting that voice. After it spoke I got a wave of none-verbal understanding that, the place that existed before I became aware of movement and light, was "Truth" but it was far, far, too vast to fit into (a) me so "I" would never remember or know it. I said "I am God" and a moment later the voice behind my left shoulder said: "No" "You are not God" Then softly said: "I am." I then said: "What's the purpose?" (Why I said that was because I thought the whole purpose in doing what I'd been, sincerely, doing for the past couple of years was to *find truth and *merge with god. But the answer to my last two statements put paid to that idea.) When I said, thoughtfully, to my self: "What's the purpose?" The voice said: "I brought you into being to serve you" "It had answered from it's own perspective" It didn't tell me what my purpose was. It told me what it's purpose was (!!!) And as I absorbed this staggering statement from one identifying Itself, (quietly) as God, a non-verbal wave of understanding washed over me. Translated it was that; There is only the Two of us Debie. And from my perspective Debie, you are the center of my universe and everything else is me loving and serving you. Ok gander Thats where I'm coming from. (To me) my God has only one relationship to every entity in the universe and it is identical to the one God has with me. Which is how the unified matrix works. You wrote: maybe the red hats someone in a dream is wearing are really just the creation of some malicious being who just pulled out that info from the dreamer's mind? a single person can only be aware of so many details, but a group can definitely take care of much more than that, depending on how big that group. As a result of that enlightenment nearly 40 years ago, I sometimes put some effort in seeing reality from gods perspective. As in, every thing in the inner-world of dream and revery or the outer-world reality, is only god loving and serving me. And waiting on my "intention".

[gander]

I said "subvert" not "prevent" or whatever. you know, if all the wishes come true than a whole stream of wishes can twist a single wish in a perverted way -- especially with a "god" who talks from its own perspective and doesn't try to figure out what you actually mean with your words and intentions. and besides, your views aren't all that different from what others believe. just face it: a dream or whatever meditation-experience is just that, an experience! what you do here is to interpret it as some sort of knowledge, without much foundation for trusting that kind of knowledge. (i.e. you didn't make use of meditation or whatever to solve all your financial problems with the help of stock-market and similar.) to make this clear I will talk a bit about where the ideas of the white vampires are coming from. first I had a lucid dream in which I was moved above the dream-scape and got told that all this is mine, mine as in created by and for myself. this dream cured me from my assumption my dreams would be real worlds. this then led to dream-experiments where I reduced perception to a minimum and thereby experienced lucid dreams for hours. when awake I read stuff like that: In the discipline of philosophy, intentionality is a term first used by the Scholastics in the Middle Ages to define, in terms of natural and unnatural motion, the intent of God in relation to his creation and the free will of man to choose or reject a virtuous life ; Scholastics were Western European scholars who developed a system of theological and philosophical teachings based on the authority of the church fathers and of Aristotle and his commentators. The term intentionality was restructured in the late 19th century by Franz Brentano, a German philosopher, whose main concern was to find a characteristic which separates mental from physical phenomena. He said, "Every mental phenomenon is characterized by what the Scholastics of the Middle Ages called the intentional or the mental inexistence of an object, and what we would like to call the reference to a content, the directness toward an object, which in this context is not to be understood as something real. In the representation, something is represented, in the judgment, something is acknowledged or rejected, in the desiring, something is desired. This intentional inexistence is peculiar alone to mental phenomena. No physical phenomenon shows anything like it. And thus, we can define mental phenomena by saying that such phenomena contain objects in themselves byway of intentionality." Brentano's understanding was that it is the property of all mental phenomena to contain objects as inexistents, combined with the property of referring to those objects. Therefore, for him, only mental phenomena encase intentionality. Thus, intentionality becomes the irreducible feature of mental phenomena. He argued that since no physical phenomena could encase intentionality, the mental (the mind) cannot stem from the brain. so I looked in my dreams for someone who too did believe intentionality to be an important part of human perception. and the dream-character I met learned that notion from the white vampires. so basically I were looking for something, and surprise surprise, I found what I were looking for. I know that knowledge is for real though, as it helps me to prolong lucid dreams, infallibly. according to your dream-journal you put up an intent to happen one year later, and I guess something similar you did do for all those 40 years, was that knowledge from this little bit of meditation really that reliable for you? if yes, then why a whole year and not just a week or a month? but if you'd see that meditation as just an experience, then you'd need to collect the related knowledge from actual experiments and whatever books and such. that's what I did do, a lucid dream definitely is not capable of passing on real knowledge, it can only hint at what experiments need to be done and what books need to be read! with meditation and whatever visions it's similar, knowledge without peer-review, without intersubjectivity, such knowledge is most likely unable to create reliable results! when you are the only person in the world with that knowledge, then there are just too many things that could have gone wrong when you were acquiring it. have you at least found any other dream-characters and "people" within your visions that could have confirmed that knowledge?

[EbbTide000]

The next important bit about where I'm coming from is this: God didn't create anything. The real God that is. Mythical ones do a lot of metaphorically important things. But to me: From the Big Bang till billions of years after all heat is gone from the universe, all life was just biological machinary. There was no ghost (soul) in any of the biological machines. There was no life after death. But Billions of years after all heat disapeared out of the universe something came into being. When every pocket of the universe hit absolute zero the string theory thing happened and the Einstein thing happened. This brought God into being. God became instantly everything throughout all time. Time and Space ended when the whole universe hit absolute zero. God came into being, beyond the space time continuum. That God is unique and merged with everything and everyone. Now It appears to sentient beings that God has always existed. But God (and only God) knows that He/she/it, once, did not exist. To God, God now, is everything and everyone. Which is why when he/she/it contacts any single individual he/she/it can honestly say: "In my reality there is only the two of us. You (DebraJane) are the center of my universe (my existance) and everything else is me loving and serving you. When I came into being I made you an eternal soul. I brought you into being to serve you and I wait (in this moment) for your intent." Gander, you have a bigger ... IQ ... or something, than me. I had to try real hard to keep up with you. And I propbly get you wrong. Sorry. I said "subvert" not "prevent" or whatever. you know, if all the wishes come true than a whole stream of wishes can twist a single wish in a perverted way -- especially with a "god" who talks from its own perspective and doesn't try to figure out what you actually mean with your words and intentions. and besides, your views aren't all that different from what others believe. just face it: a dream or whatever meditation-experience is just that, an experience! what you do here is to interpret it as some sort of knowledge, without much foundation for trusting that kind of knowledge. (i.e. you didn't make use of meditation or whatever to solve all your financial problems with the help of stock-market and similar.) to make this clear I will talk a bit about where the ideas of the white vampires are coming from. first I had a lucid dream in which I was moved above the dream-scape and got told that all this is mine, mine as in created by and for myself. this dream cured me from my assumption my dreams would be real worlds. this then led to dream-experiments where I reduced perception to a minimum and thereby experienced lucid dreams for hours. when awake I read stuff like that: so I looked in my dreams for someone who too did believe intentionality to be an important part of human perception. and the dream-character I met learned that notion from the white vampires. so basically I were looking for something, and surprise surprise, I found what I were looking for. I know that knowledge is for real though, as it helps me to prolong lucid dreams, infallibly. according to your dream-journal you put up an intent to happen one year later, and I guess something similar you did do for all those 40 years, was that knowledge from this little bit of meditation really that reliable for you? if yes, then why a whole year and not just a week or a month? but if you'd see that meditation as just an experience, then you'd need to collect the related knowledge from actual experiments and whatever books and such. that's what I did do, a lucid dream definitely is not capable of passing on real knowledge, it can only hint at what experiments need to be done and what books need to be read! with meditation and whatever visions it's similar, knowledge without peer-review, without intersubjectivity, such knowledge is most likely unable to create reliable results! when you are the only person in the world with that knowledge, then there are just too many things that could have gone wrong when you were acquiring it. have you at least found any other dream-characters and "people" within your visions that could have confirmed that knowledge?

[gander]

inspired by your posting I have written about another discovery I made in my dreams. maybe it will help you to understand a little bit better what is wrong about your matrix-connection to everybody.

[EbbTide000]

inspired by your posting I have written about another discovery I made in my dreams. maybe it will help you to understand a little bit better what is wrong about your matrix-connection to everybody. Gander I respect you posts, (your thoughts). I look forward to your discovery. I am open to understanding a little bit better what is wrong about my matrix-connection to everybody.

[TwoCrystalCups]

No, it's not about bigger IQ Gander is just telling us what he understands, knows and believes. But once we say something different and out from his topic he keeps telling us what he thinks needs to be, and he wants people to agree and understand where he's coming from, the more you keep asking or even trying to get what he's saying he just goes on and on about his own subject. I know gander as clear as a Lucid dream, i can know what people are trying to do, i don't have to guess, this is why white vampires in my dreams find me interesting Gander, you have a bigger ... IQ ... or something, than me. I had to try real hard to keep up with you. And I propbly get you wrong. Sorry.

[TwoCrystalCups]

Please do we want to read it here or in a DJ. inspired by your posting I have written about another discovery I made in my dreams. maybe it will help you to understand a little bit better what is wrong about your matrix-connection to everybody.

[EbbTide000]

Ganda Us humans are locked in a prison. The bars of the prison move constantly in a mesmerising way and go round and around us. Those bars are our thoughts. Sometimes, briefly, we notice stuff between the bars. The stuff between the bars inspire us. As we drop-off to sleep we go (spontainiously) into high meditative states where those bars move more and more slowely then stop and when the moving prison-bars (thoughts) stop, what we really are, is temporarily free of the prison. You wrote: [QUOTE=gander;1890463]usually people complain only about length of lucid dreams and about the dream-control that's available, some noobs also complain about dream-recollection and how aware they are in the dream about it actually being a dream. all those problems are addressed nicely in various articles and texts. but I have a complaint that hasn't been addressed anywhere although I have observed it also in many dream-journaly. obviously people don't see it as problematic or "bad": many of the dreams I enjoy having are triggered by me, in a lucid dream, (for example, turning on a tv and watching the normal program or some recorded films). another commonly pleasant type of dream is about my waste of good ld for playing computergames or chatting over the internet in the dream. also libraries are common ld-wasters. then one day I had a lucid dream where a dream-character led me to a dream-doctor for examination (since in past dreams I have suffered some severe damage). after my examination I asked the dream-doctor a particular question, and so he asked me for permission to make a demonstration (for a fee). he moved his arms around my neck so the hands were behind my head close by my brain-stem. then something made click and suddenly my whole perception has changed without actually changing. before there was a large plasma-tv in the room with all bells and whistles one could imagine, but after this treatment this tv turned into a simple crt tv of rather small size. similarily the computer in this room toned down. at the same time also other things in the room did gain in size and importance for me, everything in this room was suddenly equally important/unimportant. then I realized it, all this tv-watching and computerplaying, even my reading of books, all that wasn't the real me, it was an alien presence in my dream-body's head which caused me to do all these things. or rather it didn't cause me to do them, it still was my own decision based on my own preferences, it merely nudged those things into foreground so I wouldn't pay attention to anything else. and the doctor confirmed that the connection to that alien lifeform has been severed by him but will regrow soon. according to him all people of my species have that, from birth till death. rarely any human ever manages to get rid of it. imho it's strange nobody ever noticed it before, how we all waste our lucid dreams for doing all the same things over and over again, giving away that valuable ld-time for things that differ from each other only minimally any maybe only differs in terms of permutation of things. somehow in our lucid dreams the desire to experience new and exciting things does not exist. now the notion of an alien parasite inside of the dreaming-self's head sounds a bit paranoid, but the full story is even a bit more severe. the question I asked that doctor before this treatment was about problems I have in my awake state, in real life. so obviously the doctor did believe there to be a connection between that parasite and my problems in the real world. obviously it isn't just the dreaming-self who is infected but the waken self too is subject to that parasite which persumably lives in a body-part that dreaming-self and waken-self are sharing -- the human mind. the problems I complained about in real life was a slow decay of my memory, so to say. not in the form of dementia, not even as forgetfulness, just a gradual loss of emotions I felt in past, a gradual loss of enthusiasm for things that aren't as gratifying as others. hard to express now, especially since I forgot about the actual words I used towards this doctor, but basically, on afterthought, the very same thing that happened in the dream through this parasite also is happening in reality, just on a more mental plane. i.e. it isn't a tv-set that becomes bigger in my real life, it is particular thought-patterns that are somehow growing bigger in my mind through that parasite. I still do see everything, my perception of my thoughts isn't impeded, I merely see somethings more clearly than others. that other people didn't notice that seems to imply that the parasite somehow prevents us from noticing its work. so it isn't that far-fetched to also assume that it would be smart enough to alter its strategies if I would stop following the predominant thought-patterns. it is even very likely that everybody who somewhere reads about a person discovering that parasite, like for example this posting here, will get strong feelings and dominating thought-patterns that distract from actually considering this parasite's existence to be true, maybe leading to fear and disgust with the article. I guess even asking those readers if that reaction is typical for their psyche wont help to raise the popularity of this thread... anyway, soberly seen this parasite has 3 objectives: 1) it must prevent us from noticing its existence and sort of is afraid when we do, 2) it doesn't want us to experience new and exciting things in our dreams or in our meditation, and 3) it obviously does serve each of us individually to make our lives as pleasant as possible in that it makes us indulge mainly into activities that we enjoy indulging in this behaviour. It is much alike of a farmer towards its cattle. also the farmer wants the animals not to notice they get "farmed", and also the farmer is alike to a god putting into focus all the pleasant things there are for the animals so they don't even try to break out of that slavery. the desire to experience new and completely different things is probably our real wish for freedom from that slavery, so the parasite must turn away our heads from such desires. it makes the world at large much more conservative than it could have been without it, it basically is against any kind of progress. but its influence on us is so marginal that we really cannot blame it for our lack of progress, especially since there actually is progress of technology and such. it's just a nudge and not a push. also quite obvious is that this parasite must have been responsible for most of our spiritual progress in religions and whatever visions we get with meditation. at least many religion talk of a benelovent entity that makes sure we have a good life, and the desire for stagnation mainly comes from religions. similarily many visions I ever heard of people getting in their meditation fit nicely into the pattern of a higher entity contacting us to reveal that all people are connected through a network of those parasites that work together to give us what we want in our lives, that pulls together people who are supposed to be together and that pushes apart people who are better off not influencing eachother. especially the idea that part of us will live on after death practically forever, at least much longer than the universe we live in, this whole idea is the perfect description of that parasite, as is the idea of reincarnation. the parasite just gives us all personality, it bends us since birth throughout our whole development like the restraints a gardener might put around his plants do. our whole thinking is sort of made easier through that parasite as it will infallably tell us what is important to us, it points out to us what we must know in the same way as it points out the existence of a tv-set in my dreams. the parasite with which we live in s

[EbbTide000]

To continue your message, Gander: the parasite with which we live in symbiosis and around which our whole society has formed, that parasite is taking over all the hard work that thinking is supposed to form but as I learned in my lucid dreams, such services never are for free, there always is a price we must pay. in my dreams that price is either my waken-self's health and energy or some services I have to provide in my lucid dreams eventually (mostly some particular emotion I am asked to develop, but also some stories I have to tell about my real life).as I mentioned in the beginning, the price we have to pay to the parasite obviously is about some sort of memories on emotions we had in past, Mmmm my phone-note wont paste the rest of your opening post from you thread called "Dream Spoil-sport" so I will put in the link: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dream-spoilsport-132436/ Ganda Some say that without a break from those prison-bars (enslaving thoughts) Parasites(???) we would die. But even if we never try to get free consciously, through spiritual practices, we get biological reprieve each time we sleep. One of the 4 stages of sleep is Nirvana. Some say that learning to stay conscious as we fall asleep will liberate us PERMANEMTLY. High yogies and mystics and Buddist-type meditators and true- deep Hindue devotee's and other serious spiritual practitioners, Never lose consciousness. They hardly ever think. There is, apparently, life beyound the "parasites" beyound thought.

[gander]

no, I don't want people to agree with me, I reduce self-representation to a minimum here, hence no dream-journal. what I say about myself is focused on a calculated goal, but I don't care how that goal is achieved. a friend suggested I should come here since that friend has no time for posting anymore. so I feel the desire to fill in for my friend and to defend my friend's views. this friend also told me about various buddhist practices relating to dreams, and in my friend's opinion the one where you build a full-fledged dream-body to live in after the physical body's death, that's the most promising strategy. I don't know enough of buddhism to argue here. however, I know that by doing nothing one can merely keep up the status quo for as long as it will last, till it tilts. so, waiting for becoming aware of falling asleep is the wrong action, no matter if you want to live with or without the parasite. to get something done one must get the hands dirty, so to say. the bars formed by our thoughts are only a problem in dreams, not in waken reality. (of course, as long as you do think you will die, but not because of thoughts being deadly but because of not thinking being already sort of a death of its own. also, people who decide for the parasite wont have any problem at all, they become one with it and after the physical body's death their mind will live on and either go wherever the parasite has come from or move on to another host.) as I explained in this thread thoughts become real dream-objects in our dreams, thereby not only limiting the scope the dream can take but also limiting our ressources especially in terms of dream-length. getting rid of thoughts is getting rid of dream-objects, thereby cleaning up the dream so it becomes more alike what awaits us at death. been there, done that, and realized my error. the problem is that it's a longing for death, no matter if you call it nirvana or whatever it still stays the good old finishing-line to all our conscious experiences in this and other worlds. as far as literature on the topic of this parasite goes, the only liberation that exists is a life full of strong intentions that get carried out to the fullest no matter the odds and no matter the pride that gets lost on the way. but the desire to experience new and unique things is exactly the same as that carrying out of intentions, so it isn't surprising the parasite blocks that out. other than that, there always is the danger to confuse the things between the bars and the bars themselves. afterall their "shape" is the same. a smart parasite will notice when you look at stuff inbetween bars, so it will likely put some bars of the right flavour there. so in the long run even the "slowing" caused by dreams wont help. on the other hand, if one does do what is supposedly the antidote against the parasite, then most likely you'll end up with a stress-syndrome, you practically go nuts. but then, with the mind already being under siege, what's the loss in "losing one's mind"? fight club anyone? I should emphasize once again: thoughts and the parasite are not one and the same! the parasite can neither read nor write thoughts, it can only alter the "voice" of the thoughts, the colour of the voice. it simply is too alien to completely understand what we think, it only knows about us what it needs to know. so stopping thoughts wont affect the parasite, it still will be there once thoughts come back. besides, there are certain side-effects of thoughts stopping to exist, I noticed in my dreams, and usually when people talk of their stopping thoughts I cannot see any of those side-effects happening, so most such claims seem a bit fishy to me.

[EbbTide000]

Dear gander no, I don't want people to agree with me, I reduce self-representation to a minimum here, hence no dream-journal. what I say about myself is focused on a calculated goal, but I don't care how that goal is achieved. a friend suggested I should come here since that friend has no time for posting anymore. so I feel the desire to fill in for my friend and to defend my friend's views. this friend also told me about various buddhist practices relating to dreams, and in my friend's opinion the one where you build a full-fledged dream-body to live in after the physical body's death, that's the most promising strategy. I don't know enough of buddhism to argue here. however, I know that by doing nothing one can merely keep up the status quo for as long as it will last, till it tilts. so, waiting for becoming aware of falling asleep is the wrong action, no matter if you want to live with or without the parasite. to get something done one must get the hands dirty, so to say. °the bars formed by our thoughts are only a problem in dreams, not in waken reality. (of course, as long as you do think you will die, but not because of thoughts being deadly but because of not thinking being already sort of a death of its own. also, people who decide for the parasite wont have any problem at all, they become one with it and after the physical body's death their mind will live on and either go wherever the parasite has come from or move on to another host.) as I explained in this thread thoughts become real dream-objects in our dreams, thereby not only limiting the scope the dream can take but also limiting our ressources especially in terms of dream-length. getting rid of thoughts is getting rid of dream-objects, thereby cleaning up the dream so it becomes more alike what awaits us at death. been there, done that, and realized my error. the problem is that it's a longing for death, no matter if you call it nirvana or whatever it still stays the good old finishing-line to all our conscious experiences in this and other worlds. as far as literature on the topic of this parasite goes, the only liberation that exists is a life full of strong intentions that get carried out to the fullest no matter the odds and no matter the pride that gets lost on the way. but the desire to experience new and unique things is exactly the same as that carrying out of intentions, so it isn't surprising the parasite blocks that out. other than that, there always is the danger to confuse the things between the bars and the bars themselves. afterall their "shape" is the same. a smart parasite will notice when you look at stuff inbetween bars, so it will likely put some bars of the right flavour there. so in the long run even the "slowing" caused by dreams wont help. on the other hand, if one does do what is supposedly the antidote against the parasite, then most likely you'll end up with a stress-syndrome, you practically go nuts. but then, with the mind already being under siege, what's the loss in "losing one's mind"? fight club anyone? I should emphasize once again: thoughts and the parasite are not one and the same! the parasite can neither read nor write thoughts, it can only alter the "voice" of the thoughts, the colour of the voice. it simply is too alien to completely understand what we think, it only knows about us what it needs to know. so stopping thoughts wont affect the parasite, it still will be there once thoughts come back. besides, there are certain side-effects of thoughts stopping to exist, I noticed in my dreams, and usually when people talk of their stopping thoughts I cannot see any of those side-effects happening, so most such claims seem a bit fishy to me. I don't follow, sorry When folk look at my Avatar (then sleep), they unite with the energy produced beyond the space-time continuum. Then the avatar communicates through the outer world in ways that go off-the-scale. Then, it seems to me, folk freek. Because we dont have any ideas or concepts or words to explain to ourselves what the fuck happened. There are two examples in this thread. http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dream-...loaded-123389/ I am only interested in this. I came here after a dynamic and PRACTICAL thread (about this) was deleted and I was banned, elsewhere. This "thingy" has no name. I discovered "it" by accident while participating in IASD psidreaming (online) Conferences. 2008-2011. You, and your friend/s are deep thinkers. Do any of you have thoughts on this.