Password shared dreaming experiment

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But why keep changing the password every night? I still don't understand. Just place one password on the alter and don't reveal what it is.

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Let's say, for the sake of argument, that someone *did* get the right password. I'd sure want to be able to repeat the experiment. Why did it happen? How did it happen? Was it mere chance? Was it an anomaly? Did I accidentally give away a clue by accident in my dream journal the night before? And so on.

Boy, that would get my interest up. I would be able to repeat the test /the very next night/ leaving everything the same, except for the password.

An experiment has to be able to be repeated...

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that someone *did* get the right password. I'd sure want to be able to repeat the experiment. Why did it happen? How did it happen? Was it mere chance? Was it an anomaly? Did I accidentally give away a clue by accident in my dream journal the night before? And so on.

Boy, that would get my interest up. I would be able to repeat the test /the very next night/ leaving everything the same, except for the password.

An experiment has to be able to be repeated...

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Well, that's one point of view, and I respect it.

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But why keep changing the password every night? I still don't understand. Just place one password on the alter and don't reveal what it is.

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Yeah, wouldn't that be considerably easier and less likely to put stress on you to do an LD every night to place a new password?

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Originally Posted by Lion

Yeah, wouldn't that be considerably easier and less likely to put stress on you to do an LD every night to place a new password?

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But if he wants to do it this way, then I'd agree with Sageous that he shouldn't post the password at all, because it's unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But if he wants to do it this way, then I'd agree with Sageous that he shouldn't post the password at all, because it's unnecessary.

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It might be interesting to do another experiment run by someone else in which one doesn't post the password, or in which one posts the list of passwords (or password) at the end. We could compare results and findings.

I'm kind of interested in my choice of words for passwords and how they will affect you. Let's suppose I choose a concept or object as the password, but you've never encountered it in real life. Even if you *do* see the password object in plain view, how would you describe the password?

At the same time, I don't want to choose an object or concept that is too familiar, for that would be an easy password to guess, even without using shared dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I'm kind of interested in my choice of words for passwords and how they will affect you. Let's suppose I choose a concept or object as the password, but you've never encountered it in real life. Even if you *do* see the password object in plain view, how would you describe the password?

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I don't think this is a good idea, as it over complicates things. We want to prove whether or not the information can be shared or not, period. Interpreting objects is going a bit too far.

Let's keep it simple. Nice and easy.

You get lucid -> Navigate to the Cathedral -> Enter the Cathedral -> Place the password, written on dream paper, near the altar.

Optionally, you can also tell the DC's in the Cathedral to remember the password.

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At the same time, I don't want to choose an object or concept that is too familiar, for that would be an easy password to guess, even without using shared dreaming.

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Well yeah but, for example Rubik's cube was a bit different in the sense that there are two words: Rubik, and Cube. You can still make a "one word" password without it being easy.

Shrimp,
Plasma,
Aptitude,
Remembrance,

etc.

And yeah, where is hathor28 now to prove shared dreaming?

I think Gills makes a good point, Mindraker; it might be best to keep the password(s) as simple and universally archetypical as you can make them. Keeping that part of the experiment as stupid simple as possible might help with the part you're really trying to test, which is th actual sharing.

For instance, the Rubik's Cube (aside from being two words) was a good choice because a cube is a nice, simple object that can be described any number of ways and still mean "cube." Oh, and I also think that if someone had guessed "colored ice cube" or "rainbow box," or something similar, you could definitely raise an eyebrow, or two. I wouldn't worry about people figuring out your passwords, either, as long as you keep them random.

But for all this advice, I acknowledge, and think every player ought to acknowledge, that this is Mindraker's game, and we must play by his rules whatever they may be, or the experiment will be doomed.

Please do not bring up my name here. I posted here last time to say good luck with the experiment and would like to see how it goes.
Some people do not realize they are feeding the fire.
Shared dreaming to me is a personal subject and i keep it to myself about my experiences about it, it has nothing to do with me proving it.

Wake-up image of a "square" faced baby (alien) newborn. The square face was very oily and behind the baby's square face the head went to a blunt-point, like a pyramid.

Dream faded too quick to catch and only remember the colour "yellow" and round, smooth, uniform, (clear or slightly smokey crystal) protusions on a surface. Maybe the floor. Like the bumps on the metal outer-part of Dalek's in Dr Who.

The more I think about this, the more I realize it's really a bad idea to post the password for everyone to see. Someone could theoretically retrieve the password, and then he comes a bit "late" to the thread, and sees the password is posted. This would make a successful outcome turn worthless.

He wouldn't be able to convince many people (including me), that he actually retrieved it through a dream.

BTW, as I'm writing this post, a very strange thing happened. A word popped into my head out of no where: The word is ALADIN. I also remembered some scenes from the Bud Spencer movie "Aladin", which I saw more than 15 years ago. Why the hell these images came into my head I have no clue.

Funny, and strange.

Now I'm off to bed. I hope I get to the Cathedral, because that's after all where the password is at. :)

How long will this run for?

Where will reports be compiled/listed?

How will these reports be formatted?

How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?

What is stopping your from changing the password?

What randomization algorithm will you be using?

What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?

Why bother with a place at all?

Will you be writing reports as well?

Etc.


I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

It's a good project, but your approach is flawed, and that's an issue that will not only invalidate your results, but skew them in a specific direction.



Also: Pineapple.

Dear Mindraker

I am so o o excited that you are doing this. The quality of my inside-life goes through the roof when I can participate in stuff like this. All day I look forward to bed time.

Going to sleep is a sharp and bubbley experience as I hope, hope, hope to tune into (say) the password in the temple. I notice the stages of sleep setting in "s l o w e l y". That is such a pleasant way to go to sleep.

Then if I wake several times in the night (due to my neuropathic pain) I immediately wonder, "Did I just dream of the password". And the pain takes a back-seat to the exciting new focus of trying to remember the dream that the pain woke me from.

Due to the pain, (probably) my dreams evaporate before I can capture them, (most times).

But, when I got a focuss like "the password in the temple" my life changes.

So please don't get swamped by all the criticism and suggestions given by folk [who will probably never play anyway. Please keep it UP for ME and I will send you lots of "prosperity prayers" and:

May the long time Sun shine upon "U"

All Love surround "U"

And the True Light

Within "U"

Guide your way Home.

I Love "U" Mindraker

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Originally Posted by debrajane

So please don't get swamped by all the criticism and suggestions given by folk [who will probably never play anyway.

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Yeah, don't bother improving your process. After all, you definitely want your results to be questioned and brushed aside as the result of poor execution.

Seriously, with a few simple fixes this could have some real validity. Of course, no matter what you do, your results won't prove anything in either direction (unless you perform a proper experiment and get it peer reviewed, but then you have to get certified to perform human testing, have an established author back your work...too much of a hassle, amirite?). But that shouldn't stop you from trying to make things as bullet-proof as possible.

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Yeah, don't bother improving your process. After all, you definitely want your results to be questioned and brushed aside as the result of poor execution.

Seriously, with a few simple fixes this could have some real validity. Of course, no matter what you do, your results won't prove anything in either direction (unless you perform a proper experiment and get it peer reviewed, but then you have to get certified to perform human testing, have an established author back your work...too much of a hassle, amirite?). But that shouldn't stop you from trying to make things as bullet-proof as possible.

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Whatever you do mindraker

Do not go to Youtube looking for that song I just quoted. They are all slow, sickly-sweet and make me want to vomit-vomit-vomit.

I learned my version on Green Island with a bunch of spiritual hippies in 1972. We walked around that tourist Island off Cairns, North Queensland chanting a much more exciting "up-beat" version.

I wish I could send you a voice-mail of me singing it to you. You would feel the blessing snd you would want to drink it in and you would find yourself spontainiously chanting it with your friends in mind.

I got a voice mail app.

:cheeky:



Glad I razzled you Mzzkc !!!

Razzled?

If only.

Just trying to help out the larger community.

My email is:

*please PM this user for her e-mail address*

Send a quick email and I will reply with me chanting that amazing blessing at you.

May the long time Sun shine upon You
All Love surround You
And the True Light within You
Guide your way Home


***Edited by Melanieb

Guys

Something like this was done elswhere. There were about 30 consecutive, weekly, targets by one guy followed by 48 consecutive weekly targets by the next guy. I was sent a link by a person I mutual dreamed with.

They were up to target 30 of the second guys dream remote viewing lab when I got there.

That's where I aquired the taste for this amazing way of dreaming. The amazing thing was that, although accurate hits to the target were rare (to non existant) folks wandered into each other's dreams. (?¿?)

Parrallel dreams.

Also folks would miss the target but bump into actual events from the senders life. (?¿?)

And other phenomenon too.

This sort of stuff is meaningless to the NON-participants. But when YOU, a timid, humble participant, gets a hit or other anomally, KaPow that's what it's about.

Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

It is a lot more up-beat and powerful than the limp-wristed crap on Youtube.

Here is my email address again. Do a highlight, copy and past it into your address bar:



***please send a private message to this user for her e-mail*



**Edited by Melanieb

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

How long will this run for?

Where will reports be compiled/listed?

How will these reports be formatted?

How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?

What is stopping your from changing the password?

What randomization algorithm will you be using?

What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?

Why bother with a place at all?

Will you be writing reports as well?

Etc.


I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

It's a good project, but your approach is flawed, and that's an issue that will not only invalidate your results, but skew them in a specific direction.



Also: Pineapple.

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These are all legitimate questions.

> How long will this run for?
That hasn't been decided yet.

> Where will reports be compiled/listed?
I was planning on posting the results on the dreamviews forum.

> How will these reports be formatted?
That all depends on what the results are. I mean... if we've got different people with a surprising number of different coincidences over time, we might need a graph... but if nobody has anything similar to my dream, then it can be summarized in one short paragraph.

> How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?
Good question. For now, I'm just leaving it as a 24-hour time period, from 10 PM to 10 PM EST. I know, that's pretty rough. But for right now, let's just see what results we can get by doing this.

> What is stopping your from changing the password?
You can't. That's why I wrote the password down on a piece of paper before I go to bed... that way I (the one who is doing the experiment for myself) can't change the password. That is, if I'm an honest person. But yes, you just have to trust me not to change the password. Which sucks on your end.

> What randomization algorithm will you be using?
Another good question. I should use a dictionary or something. The password I used last night and the one before that was just something I pulled out of my head. Which really isn't random. But I figured it was something reasonably common enough for everyone to find.

> What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?
Oh, I thought we had kind of agreed to that. We're going to place it/find it on the altar of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. See post #2.

> Why bother with a place at all?

Well, I have no idea what works and what does not work in shared dreaming. This is completely a discovery experiment.

> Will you be writing reports as well?

I'll post my findings of whatever I find, be they positive or negative results. I did have a *lot* of dreams last night, but I had no evidence of them being *shared* dreams with anyone else.

> I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

What might you suggest would improve the exercise? I appreciate everyone's feedback.

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Originally Posted by debrajane

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

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Aw, thanks. I'll take good warm sentiment anywhere I can get it. :D

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

What might you suggest would improve the exercise? I appreciate everyone's feedback.

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Awesome.

As follows...

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

That hasn't been decided yet.

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Might I suggest 30 days for each run? Not too long, but at least people will know what they're getting into. What's more, 30 days (a month) a fairly standard timeframe for research involving dreams.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I was planning on posting the results on the dreamviews forum.

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Where though? Maybe contact the staff about setting up a group Dream Journal? Or, see if you can collaborate with the IOSDP and make use of their forum. You'd probably get more participants from there, as well.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

That all depends on what the results are. I mean... if we've got different people with a surprising number of different coincidences over time, we might need a graph... but if nobody has anything similar to my dream, then it can be summarized in one short paragraph.

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I meant more along the lines of participant reports. Something like:

Report Type: Experimental Group

Password: xxxxxxx
Times Spent Asleep: 9PM - 6AM
Brief Description of Dream: Blarg, blah blu blor.

And any other fields you think might be useful.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Good question. For now, I'm just leaving it as a 24-hour time period, from 10 PM to 10 PM EST. I know, that's pretty rough. But for right now, let's just see what results we can get by doing this.

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Sounds good. Just make sure that's explicit.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

You can't. That's why I wrote the password down on a piece of paper before I go to bed... that way I (the one who is doing the experiment for myself) can't change the password. That is, if I'm an honest person. But yes, you just have to trust me not to change the password. Which sucks on your end.

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And this is the crux of the issue. I suggest taking a time-stamped photo of the password.

If you don't know how to do that, try uploading the photo and taking a screenshot of it locally opened next to a time measurement from a reputable site. (like this one: The official US time (NIST & USNO))

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Another good question. I should use a dictionary or something. The password I used last night and the one before that was just something I pulled out of my head. Which really isn't random. But I figured it was something reasonably common enough for everyone to find.

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If you go the dictionary route, check out RANDOM.ORG - True Random Number Service

Get two random numbers. The first should be the page number, and the second the nth word on the page.

Also, decide beforehand what types of words you will not use as passwords and which you will. Restricting yourself to nouns, verbs, etc.
You don't have to reveal the rules you'll be using to set the password, in fact, I recommend you don't. Just have them in place so that if a word like antidisestablishmentarianism pops up you'll be ready.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Oh, I thought we had kind of agreed to that. We're going to place it/find it on the altar of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. See post #2

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Right, but what procedure will you use to do this? It has to be consistent. If you can't do it reliably every night, then your results (positive or negative) will suffer for it.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Well, I have no idea what works and what does not work in shared dreaming. This is completely a discovery experiment.

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This was, in my eyes, the biggest failing of the IOSDP. They worked from the assumption that there existed a "dream world" in which objects could be placed and people could "meet up" at a certain location.

Why not just focus on the telepathy claims for now?

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I'll post my findings of whatever I find, be they positive or negative results. I did have a *lot* of dreams last night, but I had no evidence of them being *shared* dreams with anyone else.

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Yes, but will your reports follow a similar outline to the ones participants are filling out? What additional information will you be including?

"""Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home.""""

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Aw, thanks. I'll take good warm sentiment anywhere I can get it. :D

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Dear gods, it works.

What is this witchcraft?

Hehehe

It is 12:22 am Monday 23-July here and I am off to bed. Hope I dream of the password in the temple.

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

debraJane wrote

"Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

Mzzck wrote:

"Dear gods, it works.

What is this witchcraft?"

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I was lucid last night, so here is my experience:

It's nighttime. I am in a big parking lot walking on snow. There are big apartment buildings everywhere. Suddenly I realize I'm dreaming, without needing to do a reality check. I think to myself: I wonder what time it is now if I were to wake up. The dream begins to fade. I rub my hands, focus on my surroundings. The dream becomes stable. Then I remember this password experiment. I want to go to the Cathedral. I stand in front of the door of a house, and say to myself, when I go through the door, I'll be at the location of the Cathedral.

I open the door.... but then I get distracted by something, and the dream unfortunately turns into a non-lucid dream.

I clearly remember walking on snow. Was the password perhaps "snow" ? I doubt it. :D

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Awesome.

As follows...

<snip>
</snip>

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Oh, yeah I'd love to have everyone post the time they sleep every night, as well as have everyone sleep the same time every night. However, I didn't want to make the experiment a burden on people, either. If I could just get people to post their impressions about any objects they might have seen on a table last night while dreaming... I'd consider that a success. If people want to post more information, go for it.

OK, it seems like people are really wanting the test for each word to go longer than one night. That's fine. I think your suggestion for a month is reasonable.

Yes, I was planning on making the "words" noun-only. It's kind of hard to envision verbs, adjectives...

Good point about the "dream world". We need to make the experiment simpler. So somehow I just need to focus on object X -- and you all will figure out what object X is, without any location reference or even having met me in real life? That sounds tough.

I have an unabridged German-English English-German dictionary here... in the future, I can pick a word for the next month by having a number select any page and word from the 816 pages.

Maybe something like this,

PHP Code:

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[B]Password:[/B]
[B]Lucid:[/B]
[B]Time spent asleep:[/B]
[B]Significant Dreamsigns;[/B] 


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