Thread: moving beyond Einstein

Sorry...my topic was kind of dull as far as starting a conversation goes.

I meant to sum up my first post with the discussion starter...
As far as human advancement goes, where do you see science taking us?

Theoretical science is something that I'm passionate about. I would like to welcome anyone's comments regarding that, any topics mentioned or what have you.

Hey Oneironaut, I would especially love to hear what you have to say.

You've got interesting thoughts there, hope to see you around on the philosophy and extended discussion threads a lot more

Have you by any chance read a book called "A Short History of Nearly Everything" (I think that's what it was called) by Bill Bryson? I read it and it really got me thinking a lot more about science. Basically it gives a run-down on how science has progressed through the years, and from it I've seen how science kind of progresses in 'waves' just like you've described... different ways of thinking, a new idea or understanding that suddenly broadens the horizon of science beyod beleif.

I guess we'll just have to hold on and see when the time comes... I can't wait... I love learning about new things. I finished my schooling last year but now I seriously regret not doing physics and chemistry... I did do biology and found it so intellectually stimulating and fascinating that I couldn't cram my head full of facts fast enough.

As to predictions I agree with you in that it will probably be string-theory or figuring out quantum mechanics properly... if that gets done just imagine it... a whole new world of knowledge and possibilities will be opened before our eyes... a world of knowledge. What's even better is realising that these things are happening right at this moment in our every day life, yet we are just not aware of them, much in the same way that people in the 1800's weren't aware of DNA.

Maybe it will be something copletley unexpected... science progresses in strange ways. I'm excited and scared and yes, I hope I'm alive to catch a glimpse. If I could ever have one wish in the world, it would be to live forever just so I could see waht the future holds for us as humans... it fascinates me so much it's not funny.

Nice topic, T.
I'll post my opinion after work.

Well, not running in too many scientific circles myself, my opinion on this is a little obscured. I think string theory could be Very possible, because it provides a lot of insight toward just what happens when electrons 'phase out.' It could be that they unravel into strands that are unfathomably (word?) thinner. That in itself could open another world of possibility...or Many, as it may be. I've also taken a recent interest in quantum physics. Though as I'm not particularly Studying, I've been doing a little under-the-table research.
And at the course that science is running, I don't see it being very far in the future. To say how far would be implying that I knew something more than I do, though, so I won't.

However I Do believe that A.I. is going to be the next Major scientific turning point. Could be wrong, of course, but artificial intelligence is, quite realistically, already here. And just the fact that its still in an embryotic stage, and a Hot Topic for any budding scientific community, I think it's going to be the next major scientific phenomenon.

Did you know about the team of scientists here in Florida at UF that successfully Grew a brain out of rat neurons? Not only did they Grow this brain out of neurons, but they taught it to fly a simulated F-22 fighter jet, even through hurricane force conditions?
That is Major Major shit right there, if you ask me. Just think about how quickly an idea blows up around the world, once it has a chance to originate into the eye of the public. In terms of our own lives, it may come at the tail end, or even a little sooner, givin the competitive nature of science.
Another recent story was from Duke University, if I remember correctly. Scientists very recently wired a monkey to control a robotic arm with its thoughts. o.O Again: Big shit.
Here is a random article on it, but its all over the place:
http://www.livescience.com/technology/0505...y_robotics.html

Just imagine this kind of know-how, say in the next...50 years?

But again, like I said, my concept of science is a little more obscure than those who've taken a study into it. Not by choice, because I respect real science, indefinitely, just haven't been exposed to as much of it as I could have.

However,

What concerns me more, is the psychology behind those that will be aiding in the explosion of this 'psychotechnological revolution.' Therein lies the true pros and cons behind these discoveries. It is true that anything is possible in the years to come, but we have to pause and think who will, and who won't, show a benign exploratory nature, because these new kinds of assets in the proverbial 'wrong hands' could be of Serious consequences.

Man...it's stuff like this that makes me wonder what underground research is really going on out there.

I once saw this program that had a guy controlling the steering wheel of his yacht completely with his thoughts. The device that he hooked up to his head was an external head band thing. It seemed really similar to the monkeys mentioned in the link you sent...thanks for the link by the way.

It's obvious that there's technology available that can receive signals sent by the brain and perform a function. It seems like it would almost be possible right now to use a similar idea that makes it possible to record your brain waves as you sleep.

I wish we could somehow map out the various brian waves to the corresponding function. Maybe we could decipher the appropriate brain waves that correlate to things like say, visual, audio and whatever other tiny, minute sensations. We could then use this information and store the various brain waves taken throughout the night. The dream recorder could store all the things the dreamer saw, heard, smelt, felt, etc...

It would be sick as hell if you could record your dreams and keep an archive of them. A dream/thought recorder...Wow, the ultimate dream journal. No more having to pick apart scenes from various dreams occurring on the same night.

Not only that, you could also use this thought recorder during drug trips. There's some thoughts/things that I wish I could record to keep for future reference use.

I've had so many hard-core hallucinogenic nights that I wish I could have recorded somehow. My first acid trip climaxed with me seeing the color of everyone's auric energy that I saw in public. I stayed up for well over 2 days and would've had much much to record.

This is somewhat of a tangent, but...

What if we could use the dream recorder to coach ourselves into having more lucid dreams...

Let's say we had a brain recorder hooked up to us as we dreamt. Let's say that we already have the information that maps out the entire brain; information to take all the received signals and correllate it to some sensation. Now, let's say that we recorded all this down all night and we were lucky enough to record a lucid dream happening.

When the lucid dream was happening, we could see the major parts of the left and right hemisphere as they are activated simultaneously. So, with the recorder going, we make note of the many paths of communication happening within the brain. We also note exactly which parts were activated when...we compare this to the audio/video that we got from the recorded session. A dream/brain moment-by-moment comparison.

We'll know exactly what happened to our brain as we lucid dreamed. We use this knowledge of the brain usage combination as a guide to more lucid dreams. With enough practice, it might be possible to imitate that same brain combination and cause a lucid dream to happen on command.

I could've used a brain recorder to save the brain combintation that happened during my auric experience. It sounds fun to think that it might be possible to instantly see auras at will simply b/c you know how to imitate that particular brain usage combination.

If it was possible, people could use the brain recorder to train the user to develop themselves in whatever area they wanted.

Hey Onerionaut, I want to apologize for leaving out all the other stuff you talked about. I really did read everything you said and the links too. Before I knew it, I had a long ass message that only partially pertained to your response.

This discussion might go on for a while anyways.

I'll be back...holla'.

Hey Oneironaut, I apologize if I un-intentionally ran you off.

Where were we?


Hey, are you fascinated with the biomedical applications of theoretical sciences? Of course morality plays a role on how far some people think science should go. Personally, I can't think of a better application of biomedical technologies than replacing a lost hand, arm, leg,etc.

Imagine being able to grow back parts of the brain that gets damaged. What about some smokers out there who could get a 2nd set of lungs. It's sad, but I bet some would abuse this technology...hey, I look at me, I just got a new set of lungs...Well, I gotta break them in w/ this bowl to make sure they work...

Anyone seen "21 grams"?

As far as Artificial Intelligence goes, I personally have almost no opinion as to where that could lead us to. I've taken some program classes and met some really talented programmers. I once got into a long discussion about AI with this one badass programmer dude that I knew.

I'm not an expert with programming, but I think a true example of AI will have to include the ability to learn and adapt. Coming up with programming algorithms that allow for and enable self learning seems both so far away and still kind of close.

Creating a true AI being would be just as miraculous as creating life from scratch. Shoot, it just might be considered creating life if the AI being becomes completely aware and self-conscious of intangibles (like trust, fear).

You mentioned the psychology of some of the technologies mentioned. I wanted to tell you about this article I read one time.

There was this scientist in Britain that surgically embedded a chip into his arm. The chip simply recorded data and stuff; I don't think it actually added any extra use to his arm. It was hooked up directly to some of his nerve endings. After a year, they took out the chip to go over the data. The scientist involved said that afterwards, he felt a little incomplete; he couldn't wait to put it back again.

This article touched on a lot of unknowns for me. I remember that the first thing that fascinated me was the ease with which our human bodies can connect to things electrically. I studied electricty in college b/c it interested me. I always knew that our bodies were controlled through the small electric currents going throughout us.

It's obvious that we can easily hook up electronics of some types to us. It's just so damn interesting beyond explanation to think of the possibilties of enhancement of human performance. Would this start to bleed into sports?

I wonder if we could use electronic implants one day to induce lucid dreaming at will?

There's an infinite number of directions that I could take this discussion. Oneironaut, I hope you come back to give the discussion some of your thought juice. I've been keeping up with that metaphysics discussion that you posted...looks like you got a little fan base going. You can add another admirer to that list.

To anyone else reading this, please post a reply if you have anything at all to add.

Thanks for the kind words. 8)
And you haven't run me off. My free time is somewhat limited and I have to be choosey about which threads I reply to at a certain time. Like now, as I'm writing this, I have another five minutes before I have to get ready for work. (-_-) I doubt I could pull my early morning brain cells together enough to form two coherent paragraphs in that time, let alone accurately convey my opinions.
I'll be adding more to this, as well as the other threads; no doubt. But by all means, anyone else who wants to post their opinions in the meantime, feel free to do so. Even when I don't have time to post to all threads, I'm constantly opening up Dreamviews at work and at least reading.
Keep it up!

Let me start by saying I think this isn't necessarily beyond Einstein. Einstein did have a theory that unified everything. He eliminated m from E = m*c^2, as mass is a function of the speed of light. However, Einstein realized such a connection could open up teleportation and other moral exploits, and he recanted. I don't blame him since we took his first technological advancement and killed how many Japanese? (I'm not trying to start a flame war here).

This new model, called a Unified model is more elegant than the String Theory. It only takes eight dimensions (densities) instead of ten. It does not require symmetry. Such technological advances that can be possible are teleportation, free energy machines, and even entering parallel realities.

LucidT, I learned all of this by reading the link I posted in the other thread to the Convergence Series by David Wilcock. If you are really interested, you should read into this, although it's a long read. It's all on the internet, and free of charge. The second part of the trilogy can be boring at times (as it lists many discrepancies between how planets in our solar system behave, how they should according to conventional physics, how it can be explained in the new model). Just be warned, it also makes a case for a polar shift within a decade (just like the one that wiped out all the dinosaurs).

The most revolutionary thing that I can think of would be an understanding of how awareness relates to physics. Nothing would fascinate the public more or cause a bigger paradigm shift in science than that. In fact, I don't think that any Theory of Everything would impress me unless it explained consciousness as well as physics.

LucidT wrote:
Hey, are you fascinated with the biomedical applications of theoretical sciences? Of course morality plays a role on how far some people think science should go. Personally, I can't think of a better application of biomedical technologies than replacing a lost hand, arm, leg,etc.

Now, I have mixed feelings with biotechnology (as I do about many things I actually stop and think about) While the concept itself is completely compelling, and grounds for a world of technological advance that we can seem to only Begin to imagine, there is also the danger inherant in taking on such a new lease on life.

Have you heard of "Digital Angel?"
http://www.kurzweilai.net/news/frame.html?...e.html?id%3D712

This is a really crappy article compared to the first one I read on it, but it was the quickest to find to post. You can look up Digital Angel and read more about it if you like.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'll be damned if I get one of those things implanted in me or my child. lol.
I mean, its all good if the reason they're here is the REASON they're here, you know? But I mean shit, it doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to feel that you're basically just putting yourself up on the proverbial "map" for 'side effects.'
I think now, more than ever, almost anything is possible. As far as the concept of invention, nothing Truely surprises me, anymore. Discovery is really the only thing that keeps me on my toes. Subduing my observant paranoia, I'd say that technology like techno-prosthetics and the like are great ideas. But when it comes down to being 'tagged' and 100% traceable...my defenses go up.

Well, the rest of us can all relax now that we know that the true leaders and engines of civilization have been and always will be the mathematicians. But really. We hear so much about Newton in the english speaking world, but there was a frenchman who arguably would have had the copyright on calculus. It was whipped up almost at the same time by two separate mathematicians. Apparently, the inference was that a system had been developed to follow on a need. Suddenly it was necessary as a tool, and so some eggheads put together the system. There is nothing very elegant about calculus. Civilization suddenly needed a sliderule, and so there it was.

the same goes for Einstein. The industries which Einstein's math explains were already in place while Einstein was still a patent clerk. Sometimes discovery and development do not sit and wait for explanations and mathematical proofs. For instance, when they were developing the atom bomb, the mathematicians were arguing over their formulas and did not really know yet how to figure for capacities. The actual construction engineers did not wait for the eggheads, and simply went ahead and built as close to absolute capacity as their technology then allowed. When the mathmaticians finally found a formula they could all agree upon, the reactor was already built.

So, do the lead or follow. The notion that these bespeckled book worms are leading anything is delusional. Einstein, Newton, all of them were mere clerks and bookkeepers while all of the technology has simply been the advance from one day to the next of increments in general knowledge as one generation builds upon the past -- all in the pursuit of building a better mousetrap.

Thank you DistantClone, Feeble Wizard and Leo Volont for your replies.

Distant Clone Wrote

Let me start by saying I think this isn't necessarily beyond Einstein. Einstein did have a theory that unified everything. He eliminated m from E = m*c^2, as mass is a function of the speed of light. [/b]

Yeah, that's true. The \"moving beyond Einstein\" topic referred to the groundbreaking things Einstein did for the field of electricty...and essentially all waves.

What Einstein did was give a science to what people in Electricty call the \"Frequency Domain\". It's a different way of looking at the way an electron moves. You can either view it as a particle [The Time Domain] or you can view it as a wave [the Frequency Domain].

My views are probably a little biased favoring electric concepts. Einstein was the last one to give electricty, and essentiall all waves, something significant that we could use. We used his ideas and took it way further.

Thanks for the link DistantClone...I'm gonna check it out after I post this. I'll get back to you about it.


Feeble Wizard wrote

The most revolutionary thing that I can think of would be an understanding of how awareness relates to physics. [/b]

Dude, I'm right there too. This is pretty much the epitomy of what I would like theoretical sciences to lead me in my life.

I'm hoping that the newly discovered sciences will allow us humans better accountability and control over our brains. In my opinion, our own brains are the final frontier. We'll never reach the depths of space, or create anything really fantastic if we don't fully understand our own brain. Not only that, I bet we could increase lucidity and psychic energy if we can harness the amazing power of our brians.

Hey Feeble Wizard, if you don't mind, could you please look over this one post I had wrote earlier in this topic. I went off on this tangent in a high daze. I talk about a childhood fantasy of using technology to increase lucidity and make psychic energy scientifically accepted.

Hmm, the final frontier is right under our nose...or uh, right over our nose...anyways.


Leo Volont wrote

The notion that these bespeckled book worms are leading anything is delusional.[/b]

I see. I definitely agree with you to a degree. In the field of engineering, it's accepted as a fact that discover only happens through a need. It's like these greats wouldn't have discovered anything if there wasn't a need for it at all. No real direction to evolving humans. I accept this as true also, but it leads me to ask something else.

If discovery only happens through a need, then is it a mere coincidence that some of the greats pop up right when we need them? Of course Einstein wasn't the only great at his time...there were many others.

But Leo, if you feel that Einstein and Newton were ordinary clerks, do you think that just about anyone can achieve the greatness that is attributed to them? If discovery happens through need, then is any Joe happening to be at the right place/time capable of achieving ground-breaking discoveries like that?

Einstein gave the world of waves the idea of the Frequency Domain. It's very hard to grasp that concept just to learn it. Imagine how difficult it would be to actually come up with that idea. I do believe in the discovery for need thing, but I find it hard to believe that any common clerk will be able to think up something like the Frequency Domian.

What is your take on it Mr. Volont? Is any regular Joe able to come up with ground-breaking scientific discoveries? If any Joe is able to come up with badass stuff like that, then do you believe that there is a higher power is at play; a higher power that gives them inspiration right when they need it for discoveries.

Thanks, thanks to all for their input. Distant Clone, I'm gonna have to get back to you about that article. Leo, thanks for the debate, if you would call it that. Please post whatever thoughts you have. Oneironaut, as always, it was a treat having your input.

this is all extremely interesting....i ahve to read on this a bit further later in that day....i was also appauled by teh huge amount of underground research and the extremely odd things they were researching, but what realy caught my attention was when i discovered these, i was nearly halfway through my theory, and it hit me like a rock....i had set up scenarios, like, if this would have hapened, i would do this, and it turned out that something just like that had happened and i was the only one who had ever come up with some type of way to solve it. however, i do not read alot, i just love to write (liek a mad man lol) and the reason why is becasue i lose interest quickly. if it's not something that has to do with hyperspacial thoughts or somethign like that (basically kinesis' or psionics) i am not even bothered by it, which does kinda seem cruel and all, but it's a waist of my time to read things i will ultimately not care about. that, and you gotta not go ito all that math crap....that's boring and i just want to know the basics for it, not the whole dag gum thing...i may, sometime later, looka t the math, if i can understand it, but for teh most part, i would suggest to those who put math into their posts, please make two posts, one with math, and ith without, for guys like me, who are not good in math yet.

cd