Thread: Astral projection

i use the term dissociated state to just apply to any state where you are dissociated be it a dream or a near death experiance.....i think the term unembodied consciousness could have been thought out better on my part,,,,what i really meant there was just "consciousness that is dissociated from the body".

Right, I guess I'm just looking for a little more exactness on what you mean by dissociation (a term often used in psychiatry). For example, are daydreams dissociated consciousness? What about psychotic hallucinations? These may not seem relevant at first, but WILDing can seem eerily like the two.

Ive tried astral projection in a waking state and came to the perverbal door where you can step out of your body but at that moment felt as if energys were closing in and waiting for me to step out so they could consume some of my energy and chickened out and never tried it since. If you mess around in the astral plane I feel you can really get hurt. You can also get hurt in lucid dreaming if you arent careful about dispersing energies you take in and mess around with in there (headaches, etc) but you have more control from get-go because it's initially your dream. Astral projection, is another plane of existence where you can bring back beings/energies you dont want to, that can make you sick, etc. I dont recommend doing it without thorough lucid dreaming experience and someone to guide you through the astral projection process. From lucid dreaming Ive been able to step out of the dream and into the astral plane and visit other places outside of the dream but from waking state into astral state is something I dont have the courage to try.

See, this is what I'm talking about. "Astral projection" mitigates totally unwarranted fear of something that is completely harmless.

I'm not accusing anyone of the following: Some people like thinking that there are higher, dominant psychic energies out there waiting to ravage us. It's like the movies. It's exciting. Others like to feel helpless in the face of any higher power. It gives them an excuse for their weaknesses and their failures. And all of this is fine, if you like these things and can handle them.

But that might not be how things actually are. We should be open to that possibility.

I feel 100% confident if I can step out of a lucid dream into the astral plain where I know its not a construct of my imagination. If they are one and the same maybe I should give it another go in the waking state because it wasnt that hard to get to the door, I could start to see myself in front of my body but then everything got really black around me unlike my lucid dream transition

Even if it is not a construct of your imagination, it still may be completely safe.

But the imagination construct is a difficult concept, because our brains largely construct the way we see the world already.

I'm sorry if it appears that I'm being very forceful. But there's no reason why our dreams should be so attached to these philosophical interpretations!

If we regulate this attachment, we can open ourselves to so much more.

Right, I guess I'm just looking for a little more exactness on what you mean by dissociation (a term often used in psychiatry). For example, are daydreams dissociated consciousness? What about psychotic hallucinations? These may not seem relevant at first, but WILDing can seem eerily like the two. [/b]

well in my case i was originally only meaning that, \" dissociated states where ones consciousness is perceived to be independant of the body\"....where you appear to be somewhere else interacting somewhere else while your body lays sleeping or in some trance state......you bring up a good point though about daydreaming and psyhosis....im actually going to have to think about how they could be relevant. did that help at all by chance,,,,,iv never even taken a psych course i know nothing about the field this is just something i came upon by my own observation.

I feel 100% confident if I can step out of a lucid dream into the astral plain where I know its not a construct of my imagination. If they are one and the same maybe I should give it another go in the waking state because it wasnt that hard to get to the door, I could start to see myself in front of my body but then everything got really black around me unlike my lucid dream transition [/b]

I dont think anyone here is giving the mind or imagination enough credit. the ones who want astral projection to be real are offended at the thought of the imaginations involvement. those who believe astral projection should be lucid dreaming and that it should be seen as the imagination are not giving it enough credit either they believe the imagination is some creation from the brain. i dont think its either. I believe the entire brain creates consciousness paradigm should be tossed and wont get us anywhere. i think reductionist science serves a huge purpose, but in the case of consciousness it will get us nowhere and we need to reopen philosophy and dreaming,which has died.

Originally posted by YourTheManNowDog
well in my case i was originally only meaning that, \" dissociated states where ones consciousness is perceived to be independant of the body\"....where you appear to be somewhere else interacting somewhere else while your body lays sleeping or in some trance state......

Yes, that's excellent! Thank you very much, that was explained very clearly and directly. And it is simple and inclusive... not attached to any particular ontology and open to investigation.

It makes no assumptions on whether one's consciousness actually is independent of the body, just that it looks like it could be. Also, it makes no assumptions on whether this a sickness.

"Dissociation" means something very different in psychiatry and, should we continue to use this word, the meanings must not be confused. It refers to a psychological defense mechanism where traumatic thoughts, feelings, or sensations are separated from the psyche, like blocking out an experience of child abuse. This is why I wanted your statement to be very clear, because I'd think many psychiatrists are tempted to relate LDs closely with an obsession with fantasy and thus, pathology.

I do not think daydreaming can be properly classed as a dissociated state under your definition. In daydreams we may be distracted from reality, but it never appears that our consciousness is independent of the body.

Psychosis, on the other hand, includes a degenerating contact with reality, and could therefore include your definition. However, that does not mean your definition is dependent on psychiatry and thus, it is not psychotic in nature.

So, I'm glad that neither daydreaming nor psychosis are dissociated states under your definition, because those are not the focus of our study.

I think I'm going to be thinking about this for a while, and I'll try to incorporate it into my studies. Since this is theory very early in development, I'm going to continue referring to our phenomena under question as LDs (or dreams proper, if the dreamer does not know he or she is dreaming).

There is a big difference from a concious projection and a semi-dream state projection, I have had more of the second rather than the first, with the first being much harder to do than the second. But, anything that's worth acquiring takes time and dedication. Actually, it was drugs that distracted me away from my progression during last year's Christmas Break.

I have to agree with you, Berserk_Exodus...
I feel the same way too about what you said...

Anyhow...we all have a time-point in our lifes that we get close to our etheric existence...
I think we should be more sceptic and carefull when we "force" to enter our etheric existence into the etheric world...it is not a virtual reality area that we can do whatever we want...BTW I am not saying that we enter the Boogieman's world...It is like real life it self...There are bad people and there are good people...it depends on what you are going to stumble upon...

If we were only leaving in a spiritual place, away from large metropolitan cities and under the guidance of someone who we could trust....

The astral is like the physical. Causes have effects and it's your choices that determine if the result is a positive reaction or a negative reaction.

I consider myself largely a trancendentalist. I am neither in confirmation of God nor in negation of a God. Same goes for the validity of astral projection. God and Truth are both personal affairs.

Anywho, it's far too soon to make a judgment call for me on the subject.

God, all these years I try to learn Greek, and where does it get me? "Do as the Romans do!"

Except there's going to be a new Rome.

Hey all. I didn't read this entire thread "alot to read", and I'm not sure if anybody has said anything like this: I think, and have read up on OBE's and making dreams Lucid, and to my knowledge they are two -complete- different things. In a dream, you are one with your body, and your mind is at work, and you have the ability to make your dream Lucid, whereas, when you have an OBE, your Astral Self leaves your Physical Self, and enters the Astral Planes. A few posts in this thread mentioned that they were the "same thing" which I strongly disagree with. There has been experiment with OBE's, i'm not sure where I read about it, but there have been experiments, that have proved that you have a Astral Self, or that you can leave your body. Anyways, just thought I would share this.
Later.

Mr_Fire, you would be kind to read the whole thread. It may often be that someone has raised a similar point and already responded to it. And, there are only a few pages.

OBE experiments, no matter how accurate an account a person gives, cannot show that there is an astral plane. That is a philosophical interpretation (notice, that does not mean that it is "wrong"). Maybe there is an astral plane.

But, maybe there is a natural explanation for it as well, one that is no less earth shattering. Actually, I'm inclined to think that a natural explanation would be a billion times more earth shattering.

Contemporary physics allows room for many different dimensions transcending time and space.

One cannot merely go on the assumption that everything seen is everything accounted for.

Anywho, I think the argument is moot. Both the astral and the dream worlds are both subjective in nature and only have meaning in that sense.

I hope you're not assuming that I would make such an assumption.

Since you brought it up, I'd love if you would tell me how the geometries of dimensions no larger than a quark could allow for the natural existence of an astral body and an astral plane. Because those are the kinds of dimensions oft spoken of in contemporary physics.

Or were you thinking the astral plane is on another membrane, and we interact with it using gravitons? Holy cow, the universe would change overnight if you could show that.

Not that that hasn't happened before.

it isnt neccessary that there be an actual plane traveled on during the experiance of an OBE. that is only one interpretation of the experiance there are many models for what may be happening. i feel that the going out of body traversing a plane model is kind of "primitive" and simplistic compared to what really may be happening.

You keep talking about "what may be happening" but I haven't seen you put any theory or even conjecture forward for discussion.