Thread: Astral projection

I have tryed an never being able to get out while trying although I think I got out during dream sleep. Its ubber hard. I have opend my obe eyes before an drifted round my room but was pushed over by something an wokeup. Its different from dreaming.

I couldn't really do anything, it was really dark and I kept getting pulled back. It was hard to stay in balance.

It happened to me three times, the first time involuntary. I felt I was falling while vibrations ran through my body, I tried to get up, but I felt paralyzed, I struggled to get up, I felt two seprate bodies at once, I was also blind, eventually I got back in and I could see. That times the whole damn night until someone turned the kitchen light on. It freaked me out I didn't know about it.
I read about it, then I tried it by meditating with my arms crossed over my chess. I began cutting of sections of my body from my mind, legs to hips, hips to head, then head.
I began thinking about the floor than the earth, I began to drift out falling. Then I thought about the area around me and I was on the astral plane, I drifted around the house, then I tried to go outside. I woke up because my cat, somehow felt my presence, and meowed frantically at me. It happen one more time involuntary by the sound of a nebulizer. I was out and pretty much right back in. It happens to me quite frequently involuntary, sometimes I remember sometimes I don't.

Ya I have read a little on this. Where could I get some good e-books or articles and is this worth trying if I can't even master the psiball? I'm really interested in anything to do with psionics. Oh and what is the difference between and OBE and astral projection.

There is no difference.. there just different names for the same thing

I looked it up and read about it online. I don't know exactly were you could get the e-books for astral projecting. The only thing I could tell ya is to meditate using sounds. I let my ears go free at night, usually I here high pitch wistling sounds, tones will change do to a subconscious thought in your mind, connects the conscious and subconscious pretty good.
I can make psi-balls, and get on the astral plane most of the time, and involuntary. I can also touch people with my finger tips from a distance. The energy kind of feels like static electricity, or like when you're hand falls asleep. When the energy is held within and builds as it's drawn, you can not draw to much or you'll begin to shake, it's hard to control within, meditate with the energy on a comfortable level. When making psi-balls arc the nuckles a little, and draw the size nuckle back from the fingertip out. Think how it would feel with you're nuckles out there. Practice by putting fingertip to fingertip a 1/2 inch apart and feel the phantom feeling of the other tip.
I'm trying to practice telekinesis.
I feel I'm slowly getting there.
I have lots of dreams about doing it. Picking up a pack of cards, moving an unplugged car across an electric model racecar track, and bending uncapped electrical wire inside box.

Originally posted by Dreamers dont kill
There is no difference.. there just different names for the same thing *

He's right there the same thing, though OBE's can sometimes be more emphasized on death out of body experiances, in were the astral plane is more emphasized on lucid dreaming OBE. OBE is OBE. Sometimes you can come across and here dead talking, sometimes seeing them. Though it is rare unless they contact you. I think they create there death life, while in life, and are more bound to that inner spirituality.

Originally posted by quantumparity
. The energy kind of feels like static electricity, or like when you're hand falls asleep. When the energy is held within and builds as it's drawn, you can not draw to much or you'll begin to shake:

yeah ive been trying astral projection with the book i have and some of the steps are to stimulate your main energy spots and it feels tingly when you stimulate them.. i have to admitt its really cool its like poking yourself with your mind... im not very good at it tho

Listen to this. Once I woke up fully awake, it wasn't LD. I was laying on bare floor. I stuck my hand out and it went under the bed into darkness, I could not see it in the darkness, just with the thought of it with my mind right of a deep sleep, my arm began to ripple, vibrate, and it felt as if it fell through the floor in a hole of energy like water. i pulled my hand out it was like a part of me was astral;OB I saw it then it slowed down and stopped.
Try sleeping closest to the ground. I was sleeping on bare floor my first astral experiance.

Astral projection is quite different from a lucid dream because its much clearer and the content tends to be more realistic. I can only recall a couple of times each year where I astral project. The projection I remember clearly was when I I was being approached by my friends at the place where we used to hang out and saying to me sorry to hear the news, are you okay? I was in the third person ie. like in a movie when you are looking through the camera. My friends in the dream were all in dark clothes and I sensed that I was too. I clearly remember looking down at my feet and my socks were black. When I woke up, I felt strange and shivered slightly as I felt my spirit enter back into the physical body.
About 3 months later, in real life, my father passed away and this event actually happened exactly as portrayed in the dream.
Lucid dreaming tends to be more like real life exaggerated in some way or have a fantasy element to it and the dreamer has some control of the dream, whereas an astral projection is much more difficult to control and attain because it is on a much higher plane.

Wow! Just for your guys reference I found a good website a while ago that is really good for this. Go to www.psipog.net.

"Astral projection" (AP) is the archaic term that denotes the same experience as "lucid dreaming" does. It no longer strictly applies because, since the Enlightenment, our culture has grown more conceptually inclusive, and resists intellectual reliance on superstitious notions. Specifically, AP conjures notions of spiritual real estate in the form of planes and, inevitably, conflict over said real estate, involving demons and vampires and such.

"Lucid dreaming" has no reliance on any philosophical interpretation. We must honestly ask ourselves what further use AP is to us.

Originally posted by mistikal
Astral projection is quite different from a lucid dream because its much clearer and the content tends to be more realistic.

Lucid dreams are already much clearer and tend to be more realistic.

If you want to ascribe a metaphysical philosophy to why that is so, I don't want to stop you. But why usurp the meaning of term "lucid dreaming" from the public sphere? "Lucid dreaming" is an open and culturally neutral term.

And besides, what understanding does it give us to say that an increase in the quantity of clarity and realism makes for a difference in kind? Not much.


I've been around the block. I've seen AP confuse and alienate newcomers to lucid dreaming, antagonize intermediates from developing their own non-spiritual interpretation, and upset experts by stunting the dutiful progress of discourse.

I can tell you that the expression "astral projection" it is wrong understood, just like "etheric projection". This is the result of a "superficial observation", like reading very fast information on some websites, without checking it after that.
Our times are special, beacuse people starts to remember that there is a spiritual world, and even lucid dreaming is the result of that. People need to live in images. But in inner images, not those like a movie, wich are "false" (sorry 4 my english, I can t find the words now).
However, "lucid dreaming" and "astral projection" are not the same thing. Anybody who starts a study into the occult, occult science, finds out that these thing are known for thousens of years, and the term "lucid dreaming" was definetly not introduced in the 20 century, as we think. There is a very vast information when you study the occult, and strong, real explanation. There are many kinds of dreams and spiritual "Enlightenment", so, there are many illusions as well, made by our own image, self. That s why astral and lucid are not the same.
For Ex Nine " our culture has grown more conceptually inclusive, and resists intellectual reliance on superstitious notions"
Our culture is a materialistic one, based on a false rational thinking (this is normal if we think that this is the end of cicle). That's why, people reject spiritual. But now, as I said before, we live great times, when science finds answers with the help of occult knowledge. I can give you an example: See the movie "What the bleep do we know"
And : I don t think you can use "metaphysical philosophy" - u can use it only if u take ad litteram the word philosophy...
Of course, there are levels of understanding....
"Who has ears to hear, hear it !"

Yes, more conceptually inclusive, meaning that different people can accept and explore a number of different philosophies, including materialism and spiritualism.

You can imagine that in such a culture, groups of people who subscribe to different ontologies (philosophies on the nature of being), must find ways to circumvent a language barrier in order to communicate smoothly. For example, in order to collaborate on studying phenomena (in our case, dreams) we must find a lexicon that is independent of each of our respective ontologies, else our ontological differences will get in the way of our shared progression.

"Lucid dreaming" is independent of ontological interpretations of the experience. "Astral projection" is not.

For example, consider a retelling of an experience of mine here, replacing one word in for another:

LD: I once had a lucid dream where I travelled to the clouds and found myself in a city. I asked the inhabitants the name of the city and they said, "Shoecrutch."

AP: I once had an astral projection where I travelled to the clouds and found myself in a city. I asked the inhabitants the name of the city and they said, "Shoecrutch."

How are we to interpret the difference between the two stories? Ostensibly, the city and its inhabitants in the second story are found on the astral plane and the inhabitants are astral entities. In the first story, however, we can make no such assumption on where the city is or on the inhabitants' nature of being. We only know that I went there and saw them through a dream!

This is important, because this means that people of different ontologies can read it and share a mutual understanding. So, a materialist can read it and agree with a spiritualist that the experience happened as I told it! And they still retain private ontological interpretations for their own intellectual pursuits. The materialist might study how the experience affected my brain, while the spiritualist might try to visit the city herself.

It's wonderful, isn't it?!

Here, I have just illustrated that lucid dreaming is independent and inclusive of differing ontological interpretations. And that astral projection is dependent and exclusive of differing ontological interpretations.

Originally posted by tetragrammaton
I can tell you that the expression \"astral projection\" it is wrong understood, just like \"etheric projection\". This is the result of a \"superficial observation\", like reading very fast information on some websites, without checking it after that.

I was a moderator as AstralForum.com for two years and I visited other major AP forums for a handful of years before and after. I told you I've been around the block! I've seen and put effort into learning how to manage the dynamics of conflicting philosophies within dialogues on dreaming. And I eventually noticed that the topic was excluding people while only including a limited number of others.

So now I simply don't understand why \"lucid dreaming\" is not seen by you and other AP'ers as an inclusive concept. In no way does it exclude occultism or mysticism. Psychic and prophetic lucid dreams are both hot topics for discussion. They needn't be dependent on a system of metaphysics, like whether or not the soul reincarnates or other notions of life after death. Those are important topics as well and they should be explored by those interested, but it doesn't help the inclusive aims of our post-Enlightenment society to attach an ontology to the phenomena with which we are concerned and exclude people and ideas from contributing to progress! That's soooo pre-16th century AD.

Astral projection is not a bad thing. But to say that it is the only thing, especially concerning very clear and realistic experiences, prevents the democratization of such experiences.

I have read an appaling amount of literature on AP and the occult myself, so I'm not sure if you are aware of its limitations, and why thinkers in the past have rejected them. I understand how this is difficult to understand because the goal of the occult is to be limitless! So, it's really in my study of its limitations that I respect it.

and the term \"lucid dreaming\" was definetly not introduced in the 20 century, as we think. [/b]

When was it introduced? And by whom?

I, like many of us I think, are under the impression that it was Frederick von Eden in 1913 (which, it is worth noting, was almost a full decade and a half after Freud's Interpretation of Dreams). So if you could elaborate that would be much appreciated!

Hi Everybody,

You know, Ex-Nine is an old friend of mine, from an Astral Projection forum which I used to frequent. He is quite an intellectual talent, and we should consider ourselves lucky to have gotten him here, and, of course, roll out a great big 'welcome'.

Anyway, regarding the distinctions between Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming... yes, I think that one can assign the name of Astral Projection to those Experiences where one find oneself in scene that corresponds to the real world at the present time. Now, as the somewhat ancient Astral Projection Guru, Oliver Fox, pointed out, the Astral World may correspond to the actual Physical World, but there will always be some subtle differences, imposed by the subjective ideals of the people who inhabit the Real World, and who somehow have the effect of imposing something of a cloud on their Astral
Envelopment. For instance, I once had an Astral Projection into a small town in the Far East where I found myself at the town square near the railway station. I was surprised to see a bronze statue in the center of the square, which was not 'really' there. Next day, I asked around and found that decades before there had been a statue of an old Admiral who had been successful in sinking a Japanese Fleet some few hundred years ago. Well, during their occupation, the Japanese, not ordinarily such spoil sports, had torn down that actual statue, and it had never been replaced. But, in the Astral World it still lingers on.

How I differentiate between Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection is that Lucid Dreaming is able to transcend completely the limitations of physical correspondance. In Astral Projection terms, we could call it 'travelling to a higher Astral Plane'.

If anyone is interested in a detailed explanation and guide to Astral projection I suggest the book "Astral Dynamics"

I havnt read all of it but what I have read has somewhat fueled my curiousity. So if interested check it out, its worth the time

At age 40 i have been around the block myself. When I have left my body I started out exactly at the point of my physical body and I never maintained a humunoid form. I was always a "sphere of energy". Lucid dreams have a distinctly different feel. Once you gain an automatic dream awareness you can literally feel the dream taking place inside the confines of the brain housing. Dreamer and dream, this includes an awareness of the physical body while the dream is taking place.

hmm.... interestign thread!

Its actually quite simple.... LD and astral projection are the same! Let me explain my reasoning. About 15 years ago I was into astral projection, I hadnt heard of LD. I practiced the technique (similar to Robert Monroes) and had plenty of success... (mind you it required a lot of discipline). My expereinces were real so I accepted them for what they were.

Now I have been enjoying the delights of LD by falling to sleep then checking reality in the dream state at which point I can take control. The point is the same. Clarity is the same.

Basically... when you go through the astral routine you put yourself to sleep while keeping your mind awake... resulting in a LD. No different to when your having an LD and you think you have woken up cause your in your bedroom etc... when in actual fact you are actually still dreaming (which is why you need to do a reality check).

I encourage those of you having astral projections to test this theory.... do stuff that you couldnt do by just being out of your body. I remember one astral project (12-15 years ago) were I was lying in my bed listening to the radio. I got sick of the music, so got out of bed and tried to turn the music off (physically). Of course my hand just went right through the radio. At this point I thought cool and went floating around the house. In retro spect however my radio was not on. I was dreaming the music... and the floating around the house was merely my creation my dream.

anyway that what I have concluded from my experiences!

chao

I have heard claims of people that have been able to read things in an 'astral' state that they could not have read prior to the state, or seen things they could not have known otherwise.

Of course, I'd love to see hard evidence of this...

Hello to everyone...
I am not 100% sure about the correlation between LDs and OOBEs...
Let me tell you my experience about my first OOBE...

After falling asleep...I woke up in the dream...everything was black (like someone else said..) But I knew that I was sleeping...Like having your eyes closed...I said to myself..."Open your eyes, you are in a dream..."
So I opened them...I realized that I was laying in my bed almost paralysed for a small period of time...I told myself..."Get up and go wherever you want...dont miss this oppurtunity..."
So I got my back up (my feet were still laying) - I was on the bed, on a 90 degrees angle...(body up & feet laying...)
I said again to me..."Get UP!"
So I stood up...BUT..
I wasn't on the floor...As soon as I stood up, I found myself hovering in mid-air, in the room...I turned my head left, and looked at the bed....My body was there...sleeping...
I can not describe the fealing with words...I can only say that as soon as I realized what was happening I felt enormous inner power inside me...something like confidence...
I turned my head again...everything was so clear...like real life itself...I began moving towards the kitchen...I entered the kitchen but not through the door that separated the rooms...I went through the wall...I turned left in the kitchen and through the window (I live on the 3rd floor) BUT nothing looked like my neighborhood...As soon as I exited from the window, I found myself hovering and flying above a medieval city...(with old wooden houses)...I looked down and I could see soldiers running around looking for someone in these houses...from there the OOBE goes on...

The only fact that I can contribute, is that my OOBE started as an LD...

So, is it possible to have an OOBE from a state of an LD?
The biggest difference (from my experience above) is that as soon as I realised that i am in a "Dream" - I had a parallel feeling that I am inside my body....

Originally posted by Placebo
I have heard claims of people that have been able to read things in an 'astral' state that they could not have read prior to the state, or seen things they could not have known otherwise.

Of course, I'd love to see hard evidence of this...

Right, there are definite states of dreaming where things happen that are not usually seen as characteristic of dreams (leading to the "it's not just a dream" feeling).

These are very important. They must be investigated. Who knows what sorts of great things we'll find?

However, the meaning of the word "astral" diverges and is thus, not a very sound base for such investigations, imho.


btw, thank you for that post, Leo. It's good to see you're not getting into too much trouble here.

i think they are the same phenomena however there is one overall phenomena and that is unembodied dissociation. the phenomena of unembodied dissociation has many levels to it....from the subjective dream world to the objective real world we see...(im a solipsist i dont even believe there is an objective world however) .... so then the phrase "objective reality" is misleading to begin with. i see the levels of dissociation something like this....


<[Lucid Dream]--------[somewhere between LD and OBE]--------------[OBE]>


so in conclusion i think you are oversimplifying by suggesting that there is only one experiance of dissociated consciousness as opposed to suggesting there are degrees to dissociated consciousness,,,,as is apparent if we start at the spectrum with lucid dreams and go all the way up to the near death experiance.

at have read and researched on this topic of astral projection (in fact, it is one of the key points in my theory). i have never been able to actually do it, for the same reasons that i can not yet do any psionics (b/c someting is holding me back and blocking my abilities). but i have had some experiences in it. like, i've almost done it several times, though something always pushes me out too. ifyou have any specific questions please ask them.

cd