Thread: Dealing with Evil Spirits

Originally posted by kimpossible+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kimpossible)</div>

Where did the first insult come from? Please respond to that and only that. [Hint: Page 2, Leo insulting me.] [/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Leo Volont

Excuse me, but it started when you declared that I was no longer worthy of any human respect. Go back and look. It was you who declared war.

'He started it!'
'No, she started it!'
'It wasn't me, it was him!!'
'No it wasn't!!!'



I was wrong, I think this section and philosophy will never be civil again...

Leo Volant
This is one of the Blessings and Curses within Spirituality. I always congratulate people when their Dreams indicate that they have come under some special Spiritual Patronage -- when some High Soul has taken it upon their Responsibility to Sponsor a Dreamer on his or her Spiritual Way. That is the Blessing. But the Curse is that such a Dreamer has been put into the Field of Contention between Good and Evil.[/b]

I like Leo even if he does get a bit pedantic. He has a certain insight that I enjoy. I believe that Leo's intent to give us ways to protect ourselves is good. Heavy-handed but good. Thank you.

Ex Nine
This assumption of isolation is entirely false. It is absolutely necessary for the mind be in the same collective system as other minds in order to satisfy materialism.
On the contrary, Leo, it is spiritualism that seems to separate us, by dividing our being into parts. Acquinas said we are composed of two parts, \"primary matter,\" (the body) and \"substantial form\" (the soul). It is the soul that is not made of matter and is unique for each person. No two humans or angels can have the same substantial form. There we are, then. Islands unto ourselves.[/b]

Interesting. I have read several of your postings and you have good ideas. Thank you.

Nirvana Starseed
Howetzer I think kimpossible should be banned for a while. She has constantly infected discussions with senseless banter of this kind. If not on purpose because she is incapable of joining the discussion yet insists on being involved.[/b]

kimpossible is great on research. While this thread may not showcase her best work she has some fantastic stuff in Research. She has no tolerance for \"newage rhymes with sewage\" and this seems to extend to religious topics as well. I see no reason to ban her.

Howetzer
I think debating is a great thing! But people need to learn how.[/b]

Good suggestion. Perhaps you could put together a sticky for the Beyond Dreaming forum. I know that there are other sticky's with ground rules and such but I think a basic "how to" on debate may be good.

But I really get a sense of an age gap here. While Leo is trying to give good advice I think perhaps what he misses is the age of most of the posters that he refers to as meeting demons and doing battle and performing magic. I was in High School during the Great Age of Atari. And gaming was not nearly the visual experience that it has become today. Most of the, dare I say, younger generation has a large arsenal of weaponry and "magical" abilities that one only read about in Tolkien or Asimov at one time.

Some of the noob's will have a little trouble with the phenomenom of Sleep Paralysis or some of the archetypal figures like The Old Hag. But once they learn the basics and get a grasp of the in's and out's they do quite well.

Originally posted by Ex Nine
So, uh, anyone trash some good demons lately?

HAHA well not lately, but I did turn into a werewolf in an LD once and ripped an undead dude to shreds

but it was all self defence I swear

if I had only known of the possibilities of communicating with it, and determining its motivations and exploring the vast deserts of its intentions, I might have invited it over for some coffee and discussed a bit of weather, its health (you know, as an ice breaker) before delving into its massive cornucopia of psychological (and slightly formaldehydey) splendour.

Then again, I'm glad I just crunched its bones

>> I might have invited it over for some coffee

You know, the English have it all over the Americans for dry sarcasm.

I personally would have run with:

"I might have asked it over for a spot of tea . . ."

To each their own, though.

I feel ya Blue!

Originally posted by Leo Volont
In my discussions I have come across a strange reasoning that supposes that the forces that have plagued Mankind since the inception of Human Society are actually weak to the point of insignificance. Huh?

No, I never said insignificant. You added that on your own.

Of course, if I thought they were insignificant, I wouldn't be investing my time and effort into helping people in this thread.

Please read what I've said without the quick assumptions this time. Feel free to ask questions for clarification - I believe that's still allowed for an older generation to a younger. And do not ignore what I've said and done.

It is to your own favor to read anything, including my posts, with patience and virtue.

-----

Oh, and I really can't help but pull you off of your ego trip and point this out to you. The "Old Man" archetype is not always a symbol for wisdom. In fact, more often than not, in reality, old men are frail, ignorantly stubborn, grumpy, selfish, self-pitying, pitiable, and sickly, among other things.

Since you think the old man in my dream was wise, Leo, you should listen to him. After all, the only thing he said was - "Are you listening?"

I am a student of listening, Leo. I have learned enough to notice that you are not. It is even clearer that you are not a teacher, else you would teach by example.

[ I can see the love blossoming... - Moderator ]

[ I am at Love Views, lucid loving forum, aren't I? - Ex Nine ]

Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?

I’ve noticed a trend. There is Hatred and Abuse for those who uphold Moral Codes. Those who Punish evil or advocate the Punishment of Evil are being accused of being the Aggressors, when actually they are the Defenders, that is the Defenders of what should be a Blameless Society. It seems that People here are identifying with the punished transgressors, all the while forgetting that these Transgressors are victimizing all of us as they attack the ethics and moral codes that could make us all safe, secure and happy.

The idea that Evil victimizes Society and that punishing Evil may deter its repetition is largely ignored, while people seem more afraid of receiving such punishments then confident that they will benefit from a secured level of Righteousness and Morality which a strict observance of the Rules would entail.

I think people must decide which side they are on. If you are Good then be good and stand shoulder to shoulder with other Good People. Raise your children to be Good. Insist that people coming into your Society also be Good. Understand that in your Goodness, the Rules are there to protect you and yours from those who would introduce Evil. The Rules are Good Things.

Instead we have everyone behaving as though they themselves are Evil, and that the weakening of Society’s Moral Infrastructures are their only self interest. They assume the Rules will hurt them more than they will help. Their battle cry is “Freedom” which is practically translated as “Fight the Rules!” They want to be free to do anything they want. It would be difficult to describe these people as anything other than being consciously and deliberately Evil. There only defense would be to claim that they have not the intelligence sufficient to warrant them being considered Morally Responsible.

That's all nice and straightforward. The thing is... nobody is all roses and butterflies. And neither is anybody all pitchforks and horns.
Personally I think you live in a very black and white world, unlike many of the rest of us
(BTW, I'm not trying to dig at you, this is just my opinion)

The Argument for Amorality

In arguing for morals I have been surprised by a certain argument presented against me. The argument is that I am free to do exactly the same thing that I am complaining about. I suppose the logic of that argument is contained in the idea of ‘fairness’ – that everyone starts out even and that the predators are the winners and the victims are the losers, and that the victims have not so much been sinned against as scored upon in a game in which they should have played better and harder. It is the Conservative Republican argument for Freedom of Opportunity.

My problem with such an argument is that it presupposes the right of these predators to force all of the rest of us into playing their ‘Game’. My having an equal opportunity to Rape and Pillage affords little consolation when I would rather live in a World in which people have the Moral Training and Heart to understand that we should all refrain from such things.

But there are people with almost no moral insight, who assume that their small predations, sanctioned by time and tradition, are exempt from moral evaluation. These people need to consider that Civilization should always be improved upon. After all, consider if Civilization never improved upon its givens. Genghis Khan was once asked what made him happiest, and he replied that making himself at home in an enemy’s house and raping his wives and daughters in his presence right before killing him was what made him most happy. Now, we could apply the same republican and capitalist arguments to justify Genghis Khan. Do we all not have an equal opportunity to Conquer the World?

The true moral consideration is to reflect on any of our actions which could exploit or harm another human being. We should not congratulate ourselves that we were able to screw them before they screwed us. We should rather move toward a Civilization in which we stop screwing over each other.

Besides, even for those who accept the “Game”, there is the matter of tilting the Playing Field to favor the privileged few. But I suppose they would answer that cheating and being unfair is all part of the Bigger Game.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
The Argument for Amorality

In arguing for morals I have been surprised by a certain argument presented against me. The argument is that I am free to do exactly the same thing that I am complaining about.

Not sure if you're referring to my post, because I have never suggested that you should do anything evil.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
Would you Call Yourself Good or Evil?
I think people must decide which side they are on. If you are Good then be good and stand shoulder to shoulder with other Good People. Raise your children to be Good. Insist that people coming into your Society also be Good. Understand that in your Goodness, the Rules are there to protect you and yours from those who would introduce Evil. The Rules are Good Things.

The "society" where I work is for the most part good. We are certainly on the side of the angels althought our clients would argue that they are the victims. However, is does happen that from time to time we come across a worker that is evil and does not work in the best interests of those that we protect. I have found this to also be true in my dreams.

I'm on whichever team wins...

Which is neither.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Therefore, equilibrium is reached as soon as practical. Always.

*has a zen moment*



<----

Martha. You are kind and I like your sence of fairness.

Martha. You are kind and I like your sence of fairness.[/b]

You say that now . . .

I have simply found through some actions that there be or may not be actual evil spirits around us, but from study and experience that these "spirits" can easily be ignored. I guess an easy way to put it is simply ignore them and pass them as fake, what the mind does not know, it cannot deal with therefor if you simply throw these ideas of evil spirits right out the window and with a strong enough will they wont return, techically there not really there to begin with.
I remember I a while ago some sort of entity was trying to convers with me through a couple of dreams, it wasnt good, but it wasnt bad, in the after life, dream world or astral plain evil and good dont exist by the definitions that we give to them, remember evil and good, time, religion, all of these things were created by man to give meaning to the things around them. So essentially these creations could very well be the manifestations of sub consious regret, hate, or even just a part of yourself trying to break free. The main point to all this is you make your world the way you make it, If you are constantly trying to find evil spirits, ghosts, entities and so on you eventually do.