Thread: Has anyone ever brought objects back from an astral trip?

Yeah... but its hard to see some people believing themselves with these types of things. Especially if they just jump to conclusions like they do.

Originally posted by ataraxis


Alright, I suppose you're right. However, a lot of Einstein's work was really theoretical. But things like the laws of motion... they have been tested and are known to exist. Einstein's theory about the whatever that article was talking about was based on calculations he had done.

Is it safe to say that if a scientist says it can't happen then it can't be true?
Who do you think pay these scientists? Why do you think that they are studying mars? because they knew life existed on mars long before we came to earth.
there are pyramids on mars as well, and if you are so scientific, how come you missed that issue of national geographic?

Originally posted by RyanParis
You can't bring objects back from an astral trip, because astral projection isn't something physical.

so, it's completely mental then? If it's mental that means it's all in your mind and there are lots of people losing their minds then aren't there!

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Ataraxis wrote:

Humans have an intense desire to be more than they are capable of, to exceed the realm of reality - so by believing in telekinesis, astral projection, and other paranormal phenomena, they succeed in this!

Humans also have an intense desire to Know more than they are capable of, at any point in time, do they not? This is evident in the constant misconception that the boundaries of Reality have been defined with such precision that Possible and Impossible are absolutes. They over-look inconsistencies in their observations, call them anomalies, and sweep them under the rug. This is not Science. As an obvious Man of Science, I'm sure you can agree.

Ataraxis wrote:

I understand why too - if I was much more ignorant I would want to believe in that stuff too. It's not because of evidence for it, or any sort of thing that would make me \"convinced,\" but the fact that it is much more comforting to believe in paranormal abilities. It can be depressing that humans are imprisoned by the laws of physics - we are nothing but highly intelligent (and evolved) apes.[/b]

If I was much more ignorant I would probably believe that “evidence for it” doesn’t exist. For a skeptic to ask for \"Proof\" something exists before haulting their biased assaults on the intellects of those who advocate metaphysical Possibility, while overlooking evidence is like a court saying \"Non of us were there at the scene of the crime. There is nothing you can provide to the court that will allow us to convict a man of a crime we did not witness.\"

From \"A Lawyer Presents a Case for the Afterlife\"

'The greatest illusion is that man has limitations.'
Robert A. Monroe

'Edison and I are convinced that in the fields of psychic research will yet be discovered facts that will prove of greater significance to the human race than all the inventions we have ever made in the field of electricity.'
Dr Miller Hutchinson, Edison’s close associate

The consistency of OBE's
• Dr Dean Sheils analyzed over 1,000 studies of OBE's in 70 non-Western cultures. His conclusive results showed that whereas it was expected that there would be significant variation in the OBE, he found that there was absolute consistency. Dr Sheils claimed that the results were so universal that the phenomenon had to be genuine (Lazarus 1993: 167).
• Many of the literary giants of this century publicly stated that they had an OBE: they include Ernest Hemingway, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Tennyson Edgar Alan Poe, D H Lawrence, Virginia Woolf (Lazarus 1993:166).
• A most highly credible scientist, Dr Robert Crookall analyzed over 700 reports of OBE's. He found that 81% of those who had experienced them had a firm conviction of life after death owing to their personal experience. What astounded Crookall, a meticulous scientist, was the consistency of the reports of OBE's coming from all over the world with near death experiences and with the communications coming from high level mediums (Crookall 1970).
Astral body observed during exteriorization
• The Society for Psychical Research has a great number of cases of OBEs on record. One of the most interesting involved the person experiencing the out of body state being actually perceived as if in the flesh by another person:
Mr Landau reports that in 1955 his wife-to-be told him of her OBE's. One night he gave her his diary and asked her to move it to his room during her next OBE. Early the following morning he saw her apparition which backed out of his room across a landing to her room. He watched while the apparition vanished into her body sleeping on the bed. When he returned to his room he found her rubber toy dog which he had last seen on a chest of drawers beside her bed, lying beside his bed. When questioned about it she stated that she had felt uncomfortable moving the diary as she had been taught as a child never to handle other people's letters and diaries (Landau 1963: 126-128).
• In the United States, Karlis Osis and Boneita Perskari spent several years doing scientific research with an excellent OBE subject, Alex Tanous, and were able to achieve significant results. One particular test involved Tanous travelling astrally to a different place miles away to visit a particular office to see what was on the table then report back. What Tanous did not know was that at this office a psychic, Christine Whiting, was waiting to see if she could see anyone coming to visit. Sure enough, not only did this medium. with her clairvoyant sight, see Tanous come into the office but she described in detail the position, the location in space, the shirt with rolled-up sleeves and the corduroy pants he was wearing. So the record showed in this experiment that there was independent identification of Tanous during an OBE (Williams 1989: 35-36).
For more on the work of super psychic Alex Tanous see the Alex Tanous Foundation for Scientific Research.
Sees things not normally visible
• Sir Oliver Oyston, a most distinguished British soldier recorded an OBE when he was very sick in hospital with typhoid during the Boer War. Sir Oliver's astral body fully conscious of the surroundings, floated and went through walls noticing particularly one young 'surgeon undergoing death agonies from typhoid.' The next day, fully recovered, Sir Oliver told the medical staff in detail what happened. The medical staff later confirmed everything Sir Oliver had stated to them.
• Professor Kimberly Clark of the University of Washington reported a case, now internationally known, where a woman patient who was suffering from cardiac arrest in hospital had an OBE. Her duplicate, invisible body went for an astral journey on the higher floors of the hospital ending up in a storeroom she obviously had never been into before. She saw an old tennis shoe on top of the lockers. Returning to her body and on coming into consciousness related the information to the Professor. Stunned by the information the Professor set out to check her story. Everything to the very last detail was confirmed, even the tennis shoe's manufacturer.
• Dr Elisabeth Kubler-Ross stated that in her research that she came across instances where a blind patient was able to see certain events during an OBE which were later confirmed (Kubler-Ross 1997:175).
Some controlled experiments
Because of the co-operation of some gifted OBE experiencers the phenomenon has come within the ambit of science.
• Dutch scientists succeeded in weighing the physical body before, during and after exteriorization (OBE). They found a weight loss of 2 1/4 ounces during exteriorization (Carrington, 1973).
• French researchers including Professor Richet spent many years having the exteriorized body move material objects, produce raps at a distance and affect photographic plates and calcium screens. They photographed exteriorization.
• Other experimenters including Robert Morris at the Psychical Foundation of North Carolina spent two years investigating OBEs. A volunteer subject Keith 'Blue' Harary, who claimed to have been having Out of Body Experiences since childhood, was able to lie down in a sealed laboratory room and project himself to another house twenty yards away. While there he was able to read letters and report accurately on which experimenters were sitting there and where they were sitting.
• In 1965 Dr Charles Tart, a psychologist at the University of California, conducted controlled experiments with Robert Monroe, a highly gifted Out of Body Experiencer. A former vice-president of Mutual Broadcasting Corporation, Monroe was president of two corporations active in cable-vision and electronics. He has produced over 600 television programs. During the years of his reported OBEs, Monroe has continued to lead an active business and a rewarding family life.
Monroe has written more than three books giving meticulous details about his OBE's. He describes in what he calls ‘Locale I’ and ‘Locale II’ the common experiences of occult literature such as floating outside of one's body within the familiar physical environment. He also talks about travelling to the ‘astral’ worlds of heaven and hell complete with spirits and thoughtforms. In ‘Locale III’ Monroe describes his visits to a plane parallel to our own where human beings live much as we do.
He has also founded a non-profit Institute 'The Monroe Institute’ which has taught tens of thousands of people both in residence and through distance learning, to experience them. So useful was his program that it was adopted by the American Military as part of the standard training of remote viewers (see next chapter).

'I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud.'
C G Jung
[/b]

One point that pseudo-skeptics tend to overlook is that most, able-minded, advocates of metaphysical possibility do not ask for Belief from pseudo-skeptics, they simply ask the skeptics to recognize possibility and evidence as it comes to them. A pseudo-skeptic, as I’ve observed many times, will hold their stead-fast position that “it’s fake and anyone who believes it is ignorant, or just plain uneducated” and then, when faced with undeniable evidence, will turn-coat and say “Well sure..anything is POSSIBLE, it is just not logical. There is no PROOF.” And it is this conclusion that leads them to go back and insult the next person who brings up metaphysical possibility as ignorant or uneducated. This is a philosophical contradiction and offers more insight into the psychological structure of a \"skeptic\" than his own attempts at debunkery.[/b]

i really think you ought to assert yourself a little more and stop telling yourself that you are incapable of doing the impossible. Didn't your scientists tell you we only use less that 10 percent of our brains. Some people use more than others, tha'ts all.

i really think you ought to assert yourself a little more and stop telling yourself that you are incapable of doing the impossible. Didn't your scientists tell you we only use less that 10 percent of our brains. Some people use more than others, tha'ts all. [/b]

...I'm not quite sure that was directed at me. Was it?
If it was, and by that post you mean that I should stop questioning whether metaphysics are possible and just blindly believe that they are, then I disagree with you.

To me, that would be no more intelligent than blindly believing they are Not.
The two are exact opposites of each other, and in my opinion, neither point of view is logical because you are not investigating both possibilities honestly. A biased opinion is most often incorrect.

I think metaphysical things like telepathy, astral travel and the like are Very possible, that is why I'm honestly interested in the subject. "Asserting yourself" doesn't mean forcing yourself to believe anything. It means going at your own pace and gathering information on your own terms and having the presence of mind to draw your own conclusions. The fact of the matter is, there is compelling evidence to both claim mental metaphysics do and do not exist and I believe that one must weigh evidence and experience carefully, not saying everything strange that happens is metaphysical, or everything strange that happens is somehow explained by common physics. Unless you have irrefutable proof, on either side, which None Do, only evidence, you are stating an opinion, which is no more verifiable than belief or disbelief in God.

I believe that the human mind hasn't been mapped out completely. I know that is a fact and that is part of my reason for believing the possibility of metaphysics, but I believe the quote you're looking for is that humans only use 10% of their brain at Any Given Time. Or at least that is what all of the scientists who I've heard say that are now saying.

Originally posted by hydraat_takiyah+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hydraat_takiyah)</div>

we only use less that 10 percent of our brains.[/b]

this is flat-out wrong. it is a myth. it is incorrect.

<!--QuoteBegin-Oneironaut
humans only use 10% of their brain at Any Given Time.

this is a bit more accurate.

That myth has got to be the king of myths. I'm getting sick of correcting people on it.
Even 10% at one time doesn't stand up to criticism. Where's the research? Exactly. Zip Nadda Nothing. It's a marketting blip.

Originally posted by hydraat_takiyah


Is it safe to say that if a scientist says it can't happen then it can't be true?
Who do you think pay these scientists? Why do you think that they are studying mars? because they knew life existed on mars long before we came to earth.
there are pyramids on mars as well, and if you are so scientific, how come you missed that issue of national geographic?

A) Depends on their research...
B) Government/Funding programs/Universities/Corporations/etc.
C) They didn't \"know\" this. It's a theory. Anyways... you say life as if it aliens with antennas and are green. There are primitive microscopic organisms there I'm willing to bet but the planet does not really support evolved life...
D) Err... first of all, not everyone reads national geographic. Second of all, the \"pyramids\" on mars are mountains. Why must you make things up...

Originally posted by hydraat_takiyah


so, it's completely mental then? If it's mental that means it's all in your mind and there are lots of people losing their minds then aren't there!

Yes, it is completely mental. I don't know what you are talking about with that second part. I suppose it's just YOU who is losing her mind. No one else in a stable state of mind has claimed to bring back objects from their dreams.

i really think you ought to assert yourself a little more and stop telling yourself that you are incapable of doing the impossible. Didn't your scientists tell you we only use less that 10 percent of our brains. Some people use more than others, tha'ts all. [/b]

It is kind of silly to say that we are "capable of doing the impossible." You are just contradicting yourself and saying that what you did is impossible, therefore we cannot do it. We can do the possible... not the impossible. I think YOU are the one who ought to assert yourself a bit more with logical reasoning and evidence.

As O'nus once posted... we only use 10% of our brains at one time. To use all 100% you have to be doing a multiple of things including having sex, reading a book, listening to music, composing a song, doing a math problem, going to the bathroom, eating something, sleeping, memorizing things, etc. We only use 10% of our minds AT ONE TIME. Some people use more than others AT ONE TIME because they are doing a more mentally involved procedure at that time.

Originally posted by Ataraxis
No one else in a stable state of mind has claimed to bring back objects from their dreams.

I've had an orgasm in my dreams and brought back puddles of evidence! ~

Originally posted by kage23+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kage23)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Oneironaut

humans only use 10% of their brain at Any Given Time.

this is a bit more accurate.[/b]

Nope, still wrong. We're always using all of our brain. The myth arises from the fact that of all the mathematically possible connections we could have between neurons, the actual number of connections is about 10% of that number. Why don't we have more connections? Don't need em, every night when you sleep your brain cleans house and gets rid of the unused connections.

Originally posted by bradybaker

Nope, still wrong. We're always using all of our brain..

Well that would depend on whether or not you think the number of neurons or the actual Area of the brain you're using matters any more than the other.

I don't. I'd think it means the same thing. 10% of your brain capacity is 10% of your brain.

Originally posted by bradybaker

Nope, still wrong. We're always using all of our brain. The myth arises from the fact that of all the mathematically possible connections we could have between neurons, the actual number of connections is about 10% of that number. Why don't we have more connections? Don't need em, every night when you sleep your brain cleans house and gets rid of the unused connections.

Ah... but I'm sure that some people still formed that myth around the 10% at one time... despite the 10% of neural connections part.

Originally posted by ataraxis

As O'nus once posted... we only use 10% of our brains at one time. To use all 100% you have to be doing a multiple of things including having sex, reading a book, listening to music, composing a song, doing a math problem, going to the bathroom, eating something, sleeping, memorizing things, etc. We only use 10% of our minds AT ONE TIME. Some people use more than others AT ONE TIME because they are doing a more mentally involved procedure at that time.

You just contradicted yourself too. Humans use 10% at one time, but some people use more? Then it's not 10%. There isn't a fixed percentage. So stop using 10%
And where's the evidence for this 10% idea anyway?
Give us some hard evidence, and I'll gladly fold.

For the record, I think the statistic is bogus, just quoting what I've heard for the sake of the conversation. I don't see how its possible that the brain, the most important and complex organ that we have, is only used to 10% capacity.
I mean, tens of millions of years of evolution and we only use 10% of our brain? I still believe that the brain hasn't been fully charted, and we don't exactly Know what every part of it does, but to say that, as people, we only use ten percent, I have a hard time swallowing.

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Well that would depend on whether or not you think the number of neurons or the actual Area of the brain you're using matters any more than the other.

I don't. I'd think it means the same thing. 10% of your brain capacity is 10% of your brain.

The number of connections we have is the most efficient number. It's all about cognitive maintenance. Could we have more connections? Yes. Would it help anything? No, if anything it would slow us down. We've evolved the ability to sleep so that our brains can get rid of unused connections that are bogging the system down.

In fact, this is what dreams are. During this house-cleaning, you sometimes become aware of one (or more) of the connections that your brain is currently dealing with (either getting rid of or strengthening). You begin to percieve all these random bits of information and your brain does what it does best, tries to make a coherent story out of them. Boom, you just had a dream.

Originally posted by Placebo


You just contradicted yourself too. Humans use 10% at one time, but some people use more? Then it's not 10%. There isn't a fixed percentage. So stop using 10%
And where's the evidence for this 10% idea anyway?
Give us some hard evidence, and I'll gladly fold.

Haha... alright, if you say so. So in an unusual coincidence, a brain researcher came to my school today. I asked him about this... First of all, it's that 10% is the STANDARD that we use at one time. If you are watching TV, for example, you are using a very small part of your brain. But if you are listening to music, listening to someone, and reading a book, you will obviously use much more. 10% is the amount we generally use.

The second idea, as bradybaker said, some parts of our brain are useless and are not used. For example, when we are older, we get rid of some childish thoughts that are primary in parts of the brain (for example, what people think of us). When we get older we streamline our brain and merge different parts.

Evidence now...

A device that costs several millions of dollars can MEASURE NEURAL ACTIVITY. People have done many different things while their brain was being recorded by this machine and pictures can show you that only parts of the brain are being used at one time. Evidence... there you go.

I have travel quite far with astral travelling, but never brought anything back, so no proof of journey.