Thread: FIGHTING ASTRAL SEPARATION

Never had it happen to me. To be honest - I'm not really clear on what astral projection is (like OBE?).

Originally posted by burns91
Never had it happen to me. To be honest - I'm not really clear on what astral projection is (like OBE?).

sort of, but not exactly
www.realmagick.com can give you a little insight of the subject!!

SHOULDN'T THIS BE IN BEYOND DREAMING?

SHOULDN'T THIS BE IN BEYOND DREAMING?[/b]

I think I will get Howie to take care of this!!

Stop fucking posting in caps... and post this stuff in beyond dreaming.

Anyways, there isn't such thing as astral projection

Moved. Ease up people not everyone knows exactly where to post things.

Originally posted by ataraxis
there isn't such thing as astral projection

http://www.spiritual.com.au/astral.html
http://www.jonasridgeway.com/tech2.html
http://www.astralweb.org/

You're wrong.

Originally posted by RyanParis


http://www.spiritual.com.au/astral.html
http://www.jonasridgeway.com/tech2.html
http://www.astralweb.org/

You're wrong.

There are some people in this world that are skeptical, & there is nothing you can do to change their minds...so just remember that even if they did see them w/their own eyes, they probably still wouldn't believe, b/c they are stubborn.

Originally posted by nesgirl119


There are some people in this world that are skeptical, & there is nothing you can do to change their minds...so just remember that even if they did see them w/their own eyes, they probably still wouldn't believe, b/c they are stubborn.

It's not about seeing it with my own eyes or being stubborn, don't you guys realize science governs the universe? It contradicts science - it's not possible. If I \"saw it with my own eyes,\" sure, I'd believe it would exist, but anything that's happened people doesn't prove its not just a dream. I'm not denying your guys' experiences. If I had the same experiences, I would just know that they are realistic dreams that my mind creates.

http://www.spiritual.com.au/astral.html
http://www.jonasridgeway.com/tech2.html
http://www.astralweb.org/

You're wrong.[/b]

That's retarded. You can't prove to someone that astral projection is real becuase you link to a site of it. That's like giving someone a bible to prove that religion is true.

Originally posted by ataraxis
That's like giving someone a bible to prove that religion is true.

And of course, nobody ever does that.

Originally posted by TygrHawk


And of course, nobody ever does that.

Hehe... Awaken used to quote passages from the bible to prove athiests wrong.

It would be like "He who hath deny God's power shalt suffer His mightiful wrath.", etc.

Originally posted by ataraxis

It's not about seeing it with my own eyes or being stubborn, don't you guys realize science governs the universe? It contradicts science - it's not possible. If I \"saw it with my own eyes,\" sure, I'd believe it would exist, but anything that's happened people doesn't prove its not just a dream. I'm not denying your guys' experiences. If I had the same experiences, I would just know that they are realistic dreams that my mind creates.

Yes, I do realize Science governs the universe. Wonders of the universe can usually be explained by physics (except my religion, Crescent View, which I seriously believe in!!)
And I don't think LDing has anything to do w/Science either, and many people today do not believe in it, b/c they haven't done it themselves. Some people may event think it is some extraordinary ability to do w/ESP, or some may say it is complete bullcrap. As for us, we know better than that, & we know that LDing absolutely exists.

Originally posted by nesgirl119

Yes, I do realize Science governs the universe. Wonders of the universe can usually be explained by physics (except my religion, Crescent View, which I seriously believe in!!)

Your school is your religion? o_O I'm assuming that IS your school...

And I don't think LDing has anything to do w/Science either, and many people today do not believe in it, b/c they haven't done it themselves.[/b]

You're wrong, it does.

Some people may event think it is some extraordinary ability to do w/ESP, or some may say it is complete bullcrap. As for us, we know better than that, & we know that LDing absolutely exists.[/b]

Some people may event?

Anyways, who in their right mind thinks it is an extraordinary ability dealing with ESP. I don't really see your point...

Originally posted by ataraxis


You're wrong, it does.
Some people may event?

Anyways, who in their right mind thinks it is an extraordinary ability dealing with ESP. I don't really see your point...

Crescent View is actually the name of our groups, who are somewhat Christian, but we also study on how to get along w/others, & about the Indians.

Not really. It actually falls in a category known as Dream Psychology, & yes, REM and Ordinary Dreaming happen to fall in that area, but LDing doesn't seem to.

I don't believe that either, but some of my peers at school say that it is either that or bullcrap!

Originally posted by nesgirl119


Crescent View is actually the name of our groups, who are somewhat Christian, but we also study on how to get along w/others, & about the Indians.

Not really. It actually falls in a category known as Dream Psychology, & yes, REM and Ordinary Dreaming happen to fall in that area, but LDing doesn't seem to.

I don't believe that either, but some of my peers at school say that it is either that or bullcrap!

No... it's science. Dream psychology is still science.

Originally posted by ataraxis

It's not about seeing it with my own eyes or being stubborn, don't you guys realize science governs the universe? It contradicts science - it's not possible.

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/astra...p1_rbruce.htm#7

^^ I've done the above before. I've projected by accident, and watched my astral hand melt infront of my desk. It's possible, because it happened.

You also say science governs the universe. By science you mean the laws of Nature. Well, I believe God and spirits are energy bodies, so obviously they are apart of Nature, too. Spirits, or astral bodies, can be explained when people realize that the universe probably has many dimensions or realms.

By ignoring astral projection and the fact people do it, seems pretty dumb, don't you think? Why would scientists be scared of spiritual things?

my pov

you dont understand shit if you are simply denying astral travel on the basis that science governs reality

technically we dont know shit according to science, were getting there, but so much we cant explain its useless

and you also forget astral travel in no way contradicts science, except its impossible to study with physical instruments

consciousness and subjective experience (and objective when experienced with other people) is the best way to understand reality

you also need to keep in mind everything that exists is the exact same thing, thoughts, physical matter, emotions, all are just energy, we are all the exact same thing, even if it doesn't look like it all the time

dont ever deny the possibility of anything ever again

anyway, my pov you really need to broaden your own

and ryan, scientists are scared of spiritual things simply because they give answers where there is no proof and to their consciousness it doesnt make sense without information and logic to back it up, i try to ignore them, except the rare case when i come across someone who just makes me physically ill because they are so closed minded

Originally posted by RyanParis


http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/astra...p1_rbruce.htm#7

^^ I've done the above before. I've projected by accident, and watched my astral hand melt infront of my desk. It's possible, because it happened.

It's really great how you don't think that that was just a DREAM. First of all, did you have that dream after you read the page? Your mind can make you believe things like that because when you are falling asleep your body feels like its 'melting' away.

You also say science governs the universe. By science you mean the laws of Nature. Well, I believe God and spirits are energy bodies, so obviously they are apart of Nature, too. Spirits, or astral bodies, can be explained when people realize that the universe probably has many dimensions or realms.
[/b]

God isn't a part of science.

By ignoring astral projection and the fact people do it, seems pretty dumb, don't you think? Why would scientists be scared of spiritual things?[/b]

To me it's pretty dumb that people assume that its astral projection, rather than an elaborate dream. You guys tell me how I underestimate the power of the mind and the subconcious, but you are underestimating it by thinking that things like that are not possible in an ordinary dream .

Scientists aren't scared. Science is based on observation and making conclusions based on observations and tests. Scientists aren't scared of spiritual things - they recognize that there is no evidence, simply people mistaking ordinary things for paranormal phenomena.

consciousness and subjective experience (and objective when experienced with other people) is the best way to understand reality [/b]

Subjective is the key word there. Those experiences are nothing but people feeling as if they left their body... the mind can create a very convincing scenario like that.

Broaden my own point of view? You are not in any way superior to anyone else for accepting all of these things as true, based on your subconcious desire for paranormal powers. I'm not as close-minded as you make me out to be. Sure, I accept there is some, as minute as it might be, chance that there is some science explaining some paranormal phenomena. However, "close-minded skeptics" is a favorite phrase used by people like you. Just because we don't accept it doesn't mean we are close minded. You are close minded as well. What is your basis for believing in astral projection/religion/any other paranormal powers? Let me guess... crudely explained experiences? (i.e. "the pin wheel kind of moved and accelerated slowly [kind of like convection currents]" "in my dream some guy was going into a hospital and came out crying. The next morning I discovered my great uncle's son had a cold!") etc.

ataraxis, I had the melting hand astral projection experience, years before I bought my computer and logged onto the internet. It was a random experience when I was a younger teenger. I was falling asleep in bed, I projected into my bedroom, walking around my bedroom, and looked at my astral hand melt infront of my desk. Everything else in the room, such as posters, ect, looked drippy or slowly melty. I was walking around wide-awake, in my astral body.

A dream (random thoughts in your head during sleep), is different from the above. You know it and I know it.

You also said God isn't apart of science. Well, God created Nature, and that's why it exist right now. Someone had to lay the egg for Nature to hatch. I believe the physical plane is governed by the laws of Nature, and that God created the physical plane. I don't understand why scientists would be afraid of spiritual things. If anything, they don't want it to be true even though they know it is. Only an idiot or a lunatic would think Nature, people, animals, pretty flowers, trees, ect, just "appeared" without someone creating it. That would be like saying TV's just "appeard" and mankind didn't invent it. In the first place, a higher power had to create it.

Originally posted by RyanParis
ataraxis, I had the melting hand astral projection experience, years before I bought my computer and logged onto the internet. It was a random experience when I was a younger teenger. I was falling asleep in bed, I projected into my bedroom, walking around my bedroom, and looked at my astral hand melt infront of my desk. Everything else in the room, such as posters, ect, looked drippy or slowly melty. I was walking around wide-awake, in my astral body.

Just becuase your experience is similar to the one on the site doesn't mean that's a definitive aspect of \"astral dreaming.\" It's called a coincidence. And even then, I read it said \"you don't have a body and your mind tries to explain it.\" Well, in a dream you don't have a body. Why not your mind try to explain it there by melting your hand?

A dream (random thoughts in your head during sleep), is different from the above. You know it and I know it.
[/b]

A dream is not different from the above. I have had dreams like yours, it is nothing paranormal (special yes, they are just very realistic lucid dreams!). A lucid dream is not necessarily \"random thoughts in your head during sleep\" becuase you are controlling it. You had a false awakening, when you got out of bed, and it was very realistic.

You also said God isn't apart of science. Well, God created Nature, and that's why it exist right now. Someone had to lay the egg for Nature to hatch. I believe the physical plane is governed by the laws of Nature, and that God created the physical plane.[/b]

Your reasoning for why god is a part of science is that god created nature. Well, sorry... but god did not. When the big bang occured, let's skip a long time later, when our solar system formed, life began to grow on Earth. This is becuase the atmospheric conditions are fitting to that of life. It's all explained by science... look it up, become enlightened.

I don't understand why scientists would be afraid of spiritual things. If anything, they don't want it to be true even though they know it is. Only an idiot or a lunatic would think Nature, people, animals, pretty flowers, trees, ect, just \"appeared\" without someone creating it. That would be like saying TV's just \"appeard\" and mankind didn't invent it. In the first place, a higher power had to create it.[/b]

You say how scientists and other people "know" spiritual stuff is true but don't want to believe it (like me with your dream and scientists with ... science). That's not true. You are showing your ignorance with that second statement. It didn't just "appear." It's not like the world was in a molten state and everything just appeared suddenly. Before dejecting a theory, you should actually learn what it is. Just becuase you can't comprehend something like nature being created on its own doesn't mean its not true. Everything was created slowly. I'm not really that knowledgeable about all this... if you really wanna know then ask Bradybaker. But anyways, evolution changed the smallest single-celled organisms eventually and humans, tree,s pretty flowers, animals, etc. came to be.

It's not like saying TVs just "appeared." TV is technology. A television is not a naturally occuring thing - we invented it. How do you figure a higher power "had" to create it?

Originally posted by ataraxis

Just becuase your experience is similar to the one on the site doesn't mean that's a definitive aspect of \"astral dreaming.\" It's called a coincidence. And even then, I read it said \"you don't have a body and your mind tries to explain it.\" Well, in a dream you don't have a body. Why not your mind try to explain it there by melting your hand?

LOL, I can just picture if you and I were talking about this face-to-face in the real world. You would sound like an ignorant asshole who doesn't want to believe in spiritual things, even though he knows they're real.

Everyone reading this thread knows you're ignorant about astral projection.

Originally posted by ataraxis
A dream is not different from the above. I have had dreams like yours, it is nothing paranormal (special yes, they are just very realistic lucid dreams!). A lucid dream is not necessarily \"random thoughts in your head during sleep\" becuase you are controlling it. You had a false awakening, when you got out of bed, and it was very realistic.

I didn't say my astral experiences were paranormal. I believe astral projection happenes during dreams, and is apart of Nature (Nature that God created).

Originally posted by ataraxis+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ataraxis)</div>

Your reasoning for why god is a part of science is that god created nature. Well, sorry... but god did not.
[/b]

ROFL.

If God didn't create Nature, did who did? The wind?

Originally posted by ataraxis@

When the big bang occured, let's skip a long time later, when our solar system formed, life began to grow on Earth. This is becuase the atmospheric conditions are fitting to that of life. It's all explained by science... look it up, become enlightened.

Yes, and God made the Big Bang happen. Otherwise it couldn't have exploded in the first place.

<!--QuoteBegin-ataraxis

You say how scientists and other people \"know\" spiritual stuff is true but don't want to believe it

Everywhere, including in the Bible, in the dark ages, Roman times, ect, people knew instinctively about spirits and have a massive need for spiritual religion. That tells me that spirituality is inbred in the human genes for a reason... it was put there by God or Nature. Perhapes spiritual things are the highest kind of stuff about the universe, otherwise humans wouldn't think of it.

In the end... even if people are spiritual or not, if they commit crimes, ect, karma comes back to them, ect, and they know subconsciously that God doesn't want them to commit crimes. Humans in the end always want a spiritual religion. Everything leads back to spirits and God. Nature obviously made people like that for a reason.

Originally posted by ataraxis+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ataraxis)</div>

Just becuase you can't comprehend something like nature being created on its own doesn't mean its not true.
[/b]

And just because you can't comprehened astral projection doesn't mean it's not true.

Originally posted by ataraxis@

I'm not really that knowledgeable about all this...

Obviously.

<!--QuoteBegin-ataraxis

How do you figure a higher power \"had\" to create it?

Because something had to PUSH IT ALONG for it to happen. Namely, a higher power.

I have a question: It's a fact that energy is eternal. It's a fact that Nature is constantly changing forms and evolving... but when it comes to the question of rather or not we change into another form after physical death, scientists wet themselves? People astral project, some people see lucid/transeparent spirits, people are psychic, people can predict the future, ect. Why does the latter make scientists piss themselves? Their problem is they don't want to believe it's true, it doesn't sound good to them personally, even though they know it's true.

Everything in Nature changes into another form... rocks turn to dust, mountains fall, the earth's crust breaks apart, ect. All of this happening with energy (spiritual or not) pushing it along.

When I told you I astral projected out-of-body... the first thing you did was attack the fact I astral projected, and called it a "false awakening." You don't want to believe it's true, you don't like that people astral project, because you're scared of spiritual things. What's the problem?

LOL, I can just picture if you and I were talking about this face-to-face in the real world. You would sound like an ignorant asshole who doesn't want to believe in spiritual things, even though he knows they're real. Tongue

Everyone reading this thread knows you're ignorant about astral projection.[/b]

Insults are the refuge for those without valid points...

I didn't say my astral experiences were paranormal. I believe astral projection happenes during dreams, and is apart of Nature (Nature that God created).[/b]

You didn't have to say it, astral projections are a PARANORMAL phenomena by their very nature (that God created) [that last statement was sarcasm].

ROFL.

If God didn't create Nature, did who did? The wind? [/b]

Do you have an education? Here's an easy read for you
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076790818...5Fencoding=UTF8
and here's something else
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/055380202...5Fencoding=UTF8

Seriously, learn about what you are rejecting before you reject it. The wind didn't create nature... by suggesting that you are suggesting that scientists do not know what created nature. Nature created itself. \"how can that happen?\" you might say. Well, let me give an analogy of nature with one tree. A tree begins as a little nut. The sun and water eventually let it sprout out of he ground and take root, thus beginning its life cycle. After a couple of decades, the tree is soaring above, well, everything. It begins to drop seeds on the ground around it, which grow and form into trees as well. By this happening over and over again, the whole world can be populated with tree. Certain trees only exist in certain places because of climate limitations. I don't know if you live by mountains, but have you ever noticed that in the winter there are large patches of dark green? Those are evergreens that have patched up the same way that I said. Not by God. Mountains were created by magma, continental plate movement, glaciers, etc. When continental plates crashed, they formed mountain ranges (how did they move? no, not god... convection currents). Magma flowed up and formed volcanoes, which became extinct and vegetation grew on them, making them an ordinary mountain. Glaciers smoothed mountains, as well.

Yes, and God made the Big Bang happen. Otherwise it couldn't have exploded in the first place.

How do you figure? The Big Bang was an intense ball of energy and pressure, it exploded on its own account. Now, science can prove that if the big bang did indeed occur, then it happened on its own.

Everywhere, including in the Bible, in the dark ages, Roman times, ect, people knew instinctively about spirits and have a massive need for spiritual religion. That tells me that spirituality is inbred in the human genes for a reason... it was put there by God or Nature. Perhapes spiritual things are the highest kind of stuff about the universe, otherwise humans wouldn't think of it.

In the end... even if people are spiritual or not, if they commit crimes, ect, karma comes back to them, ect, and they know subconsciously that God doesn't want them to commit crimes. Humans in the end always want a spiritual religion. Everything leads back to spirits and God. Nature obviously made people like that for a reason. [/b]

Wow, everyone in the bible? You'd think that in a book about religion people would be religions. And yes, the human gene is not that we need religion, but we need something more than this life. Monkeys are cats and dogs, they don't have this because they aren't as intelligent as us. We simply can't comprehend that our existence boils down to the fact that we live, we eat, mature, and mate, then die. Just as an ape does! What they know subconciously is that society will put a mark on them if they commit crimes and their life will be ruined. Karma is simply people having a more receptive sense of bad things happening to them after they did something naughty. Bad things happen to you just as much, but after you did something bad its \"karma.\" This, as well as more bad things happen to you because if you did something bad, people try to get back at you! If you kill someone, the \"Karma\" is going to jail. The only reason we want a spiritual religion is because A) it is much easier to comprehend scientific phenomena through the explanation \"god did it.\" B) Nothing after death is as equally incomprehensible. We want something more... our delusions give us something more. C) Seemingly paranormal phenomena happen to them, they turn to religion. Much easier than thinking of a scientific explanation.

And just because you can't comprehened astral projection doesn't mean it's not true. [/b]

I can comprehend the idea of it perfectly. You are missing the point, what I said was a scietific phenomena on a massive scale, that of creating nature. It's hard to accept it created itself!

Obviously. [/b]

If you hadn't noticed I was referring to my detailed knowledge of the history of the universe... but you seem to know well, nothing about it. I highly suggest checking out those books about it.

Because something had to PUSH IT ALONG for it to happen. Namely, a higher power.[/b]

Go on, back that statement up.

I have a question: It's a fact that energy is eternal. It's a fact that Nature is constantly changing forms and evolving... but when it comes to the question of rather or not we change into another form after physical death, scientists wet themselves? People astral project, some people see lucid/transeparent spirits, people are psychic, people can predict the future, ect. Why does the latter make scientists piss themselves? Their problem is they don't want to believe it's true, it doesn't sound good to them personally, even though they know it's true.[/b]

Scientists don't \"wet\" themselves. There is no physical form after death. You brain dies, you die. You have no \"energy force\" that goes somewhere. Except maybe, well, your body heat is dispersed into the surrounding air and you expel feces from your body. People don't do those things, people believe they can. Scientists haven't found anything that makes them believe that type of stuff. You seriously have a misconception about scientists - that they are all ignorant fools who are trying to prove paranormal things as incorrect. If scientists saw something that was truly paranormal, they'd investigate and understand the scientific explantion behind it. They wouldn't reject it becuase they didn't like it. Scientists seek for answers, and if a question presents itself then they will answer it. But no valid \"are paranormal powers real\" question has been asked. So far scientists have explained it all through science.

Everything in Nature changes into another form... rocks turn to dust, mountains fall, the earth's crust breaks apart, ect. All of this happening with energy (spiritual or not) pushing it along.
[/b]

Rock turns to dust: Weathering and eroding. It weathers and erodes by wind, people, water, steam, heat, snow, and other forces as well.
Mountains fall: Often they are volcanoes that have empty magma chambers that fall into themselves, but some have a natural energy to have some of the mountainside fall. Potential energy is contained in the sides of the mountain, and when the friction of the mountain can't retain that energy a mudslide occurs.
Earth's crust break apart: Forces provided by convection currents, rotation of the earth, and the energy inside of the earth.

Therefore, the energy is not \"spiritual.\"

When I told you I astral projected out-of-body... the first thing you did was attack the fact I astral projected, and called it a \"false awakening.\" You don't want to believe it's true, you don't like that people astral project, because you're scared of spiritual things. What's the problem?[/b]

Attack? I found a reasonable scientific explanation, case settled. There you go again making the crude assumption that I'm scared. I'd seriously like you to stop. It's rude. It's not that I don't want to believe its true, but all of your experiences can be explained by "it was a dream."

Originally posted by Alex D
SHOULDN'T THIS BE IN BEYOND DREAMING?

HELLO, this is beyond dreaming!!

UM, EXCUSE ME, BUT I DIDN'T READ ANYTHING THAT SAID I COULD NOT WRITE IN CAPS AND I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS IS BEYOND DREAMING, MAYBE YOUR IN THE WRONG FORUM PALS!