Do you think the concious mind survives physical death

[Namaste]

I wonder if the concious mind survives after physical death and if you live on in something similiar to a Lucid Dream. I read that souls talking through mediums all describe the afterlife very differently and that you are able to create things and environments - sounds like you would have to develop some dream control. I would be very interested to see what people thought about this.

[nightshade]

If our brain dies our mind does too, it may be hard to accept but there is no afterlife. But it sure would be nice to have an everlasting lucid dream after we die.

[pj]

(Since the previous post expressed opinion as fact, I'll do the same - even though this is my belief and nothing more. It is, however, a belief based on a great deal of experience.) Our minds occupy these brains and bodies, through which we interface and interact with this physical realm. Our minds - our spirits - are not these bodies and survive these bodies. The idea of experience gets complicated though. Time is a dimension that, for some mysterious reason, we are locked into experiencing in only one way and at a fairly constant pace. What IS experience outside of that linear time track? What is thought or creativity? What experience even means outside of time remains to be experienced. I've had enough spiritual experiences in my life to know the absolute reality of the spirit world.

[blade5x]

I think it does (I may be biased because I believe in God)... but from a scientific view, this is my theory. When we die, the very last thing our brain does is take everything from its memory, and it creates a conscience in the form of pure energy (if it is not already in that form), and the energy is released from the body as our soul. I've had some OBEs. I can't answer if they were real or not, but I can mention that, they have a separate feeling of reality that is different from the one we feel when we are awake, and also provide this sense of reality that regular lucid dreams do not. And the fact that this feeling is consistant which every OBE I've had... it's just like when we wake up everyday and have the sense that you are awake and present. I have dreams everynight where I think what's happening is actually happening, but I always wake up, and think, "how could I have not known that was a dream!". People might say, well because I was not aware, that's why, and that's why OBEs seem so realistic. But there are plenty of times during the day which I "zone out" or "daydream" but know after the event, despite not being aware, I know it actually happened.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I'm beginning to think it does, now, more than ever. First off, I'm not (only) speaking of spirits in the religious sense; in meaning that, when we die, we go to heaven, hell or purgatory, all though this may not be far from the truth, depending on how you interpret it. (which I'll explain in a minute) In physicist David Bohm's Holographic view of the universe, the shorthand is that the only absolute existence is a choir of waves. These waves make up everything that is "physical" as well as "mental" to us. Or perception of reality is simply the biproduct of these waves being translated into a tangible form (the five senses) that we humans pick up and interpret as reality. In this, he theorizes that all "information" our "divided" consciousnesses posses (our own thoughts, perceptions) are distributed in some fashion throughout the entire "universe." This would explain many parapsychological phenomena such as telepathy and astral travel. He suggests that our conscious "selves" are simply compartmentalized sections of one true singular consciousness, (what many religions could refer to as God. However this does not imply a mystical man in the heavens that looks down and watches over everything we do, in the literal sense) and the only thing that seperates us from one another is the illusory veil of reality. (which he calls the "Explicate Order," as opposed to the "Implicate Order," which is the true reality that consists of All Things, that we cannot readilly perceive through our 5 senses) That doesn't even come close to explaning the whole theory, but if the concept is true, then it is possible that the energy or consciousness that drives our physical beings here in "reality" do not simply just "disappear from existence" upon the death of our physical selves. These energies then return to the Implicate Order (the realm outside of our present perception) and still, in fact, exist. If you wanted to bring in the concept of Hell, Heaven and Purgatory, these could simply be the conscious expectations of the afterlife we create for ourselves while living. A belief on what you will experience (whether conscious or subconscious) may actually manifest itself as the Implicate Order reality that your "spirit" interacts with after freeing from the Explicate Order. If this is the case, then it doesn't matter if you believe in Heaven, Hell, Purgatory or None of the Above.....you're still correct. I don't think anyone who knows the slightest thing about how small our visual spectrum is (the waves that we can, normally, visually perceive) can say with any sort of competence that there is no such thing as a "spirit." I think the reductionist view of "There is not now, nor will ever be an afterlife" is a cover-up for the fear of an "intellectual" realizing how little we all really know about reality. (which is about the biggest blow to inellectual pride as you can deal) There is simply too little evidence to support the idea that a dead man's consciousness ceases to exist, in my opinion, and more evidence toward the existence of an afterlife than most people are ready to admit. I'm in the process of reading "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot (which I'd suggest anyone, interested in this kind of thing, read.) In it there is A Lot of information that gives credit to Bohm's theory: such as a scientist who removed up to about 95% of a salamander's brain to find that it had absolutely no effect on the salamander's behavior, documented cases of mind over matter phenomenon and tons and tons of other stuff. Great book.

[Wayward Oneironaut]

Originally posted by nightshade If our brain dies our mind does too, it may be hard to accept but there is no afterlife. Wow, I did not know God resided on the forum.

[wombing]

If our brain dies our mind does too, it may be hard to accept but there is no afterlife[/b] *gasps* you've solved one of the greatest philosophical questions known to man?! please, do share the airtight reasons for your certainty... ------- maybe there is some form of continuance after physical death, maybe not...speculation matters little. in the meantime i am simply concerned with cultivating as much consciousness/awarenss free from the fetters of conditioning and limitation as possible. this is why the buddha's teachings appeal so much to me. they do not dwell on metaphysical speculation...but primarily upon liberation from conditioning here, in this life. he did not claim to be anything other than "awake". and if there is one thing i am sure of, it is that when i die i wish to be as awake/aware as possible, and not have a mind full of speculation and belief.

[GrandSummon]

This is what I think: When we die, our reserves of etheric matter is brought to our etheric body. We walk around like "ghosts" till we run out of matter. We're then brought to the next realm; the astral plane. This is the same place you go to when you are dreaming. You will be there for a good while, then you will proceed to the mental plane. I believe we will go to the akashic records sometime in betweem as well. After the mental plane we're heading up to the buddhic plane, and then to the Atmic. I do not know what will happen after this, maybe we will get to choose if we want to be reborn... Then we would get to plan everything for our next life, our parents, guardian spirits etc... I don't like it when people say that everything ends when you die, after all; nothing can die.

[alfy984]

I would have to say that the real you is pure energy, and energy can neither be created or destroyed... So think about that

[arby]

does it really matter? - when you're dead, you're dead - if there is an afterlife you'll go there - if theres not, you won't that simple. why do people always try to discuss these things? It won't change anything unless ,of course, you decide to kill yourself to get to the afterlife which is just plain dumb. so there =P

[Oneironaut Zero]

Originally posted by arby why do people always try to discuss these things? Probably because if mankind only discussed things we could change, worldwide conversation would come damn-near to a standstill. It's a lot like discussing a conversation you can't change, which you, for some unknown reason, felt compelled to do.

[Distant Clone]

Originally posted by arby why do people always try to discuss these things? It won't change anything unless ,of course, you decide to kill yourself to get to the afterlife which is just plain dumb. Because you might stumble upon a consequence of life after death. Further, that consequence may actually provide evidence for the existence of life after death. For example, ghosts or spirits or whatever one calls them. Alternatively, it could lead to a proof by contradiction.

[juroara]

I believe in it. And I believe science will one day prove it. But where the soul goes after death will be a matter of faith.

[Stag_Boy]

So many people have the misconception that we all instantly go to Heaven when we die. According to Ecclesiatstes the book of written by Samuel, In chapter 9:5, 6, and 10 it says: "As for the dead, they are concious of nothing at all. The dead can neither love nor hate, and there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in death." of course, theres many other places in the Bible that it talks about death as just a kind of "sleep" in which you basically can't think. So many people have the misconception that we all instantly go to Heaven when we die. According to Ecclesiatstes the book of written by Samuel, In chapter 9:5, 6, and 10 it says: "As for the dead, they are concious of nothing at all. The dead can neither love nor hate, and there is no work, nor devising, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in death." of course, theres many other places in the Bible that it talks about death as just a kind of "sleep" in which you basically can't think. That's not to say that we will be unconcious forever! In Revelation 20:12 it talks about a time when "the dead, great and small, righteous and unrtighteous" is ressureccted from the grave. After this it goes on for like forever about judgement of those people. But yah. Ill stop my biblical rantings now . Oh and one more thing. Humans aren't meant to live in the spirit world (which i beleive very much in.) We were designed for life in the physical world. If you'd take the time to read Revelation it speaks about a "New Earth" that w'ell live in. EDIT-One more thing I forgot to mention. Somewhere in Ecclestiastses talks about demons or "fallen angels" who pretend to be human spirits. Why would they do this? To lead people away from God by making them beleive that they will live on after death, no matter what. It's my opinion that psychics are fooled by these demons into beleiving that humans really do live on after death. Also I should mention, demons try to fool us on many other subjects (mainly through "psychics"). Did you know that Silvia Brown is utterly convinced that Satan dos not exist? She also beleives that there are two Gods, Mother God and Father God. Like I said, misconceptions about what is true usually lead us away from what is right.

[Beef Jerky]

Originally posted by nightshade If our brain dies our mind does too, it may be hard to accept but there is no afterlife. But it sure would be nice to have an everlasting lucid dream after we die. nightsade. You never respect anyones beliefs. You are a fascist bastard. Please, stop being a dick.

[Beef Jerky]

Originally posted by arby does it really matter? - when you're dead, you're dead - if there is an afterlife you'll go there - if theres not, you won't that simple. why do people always try to discuss these things? It won't change anything unless ,of course, you decide to kill yourself to get to the afterlife which is just plain dumb. so there =P You too. You guys suck.

[Beef Jerky]

Lol. Third post in a row. Anyway, how can there not be a soul? If there was no higher being experienceing.. us if you will, then how do we EXPERIENCE? Why aren't we lifelss beings doing stuff? Something, is experiencing this. Learning, hurting, loving, laughing. If there is no sould there is no point to life. Why would we be here? Are we accidental? In my opinon, accidents or, freaks of nature, if you will, like us, shouldn't be this intelligent. Emotion, mercy, compassion and faith are some of the biggest proofs of a soul and/or afterlife. Of course there are more like OBEs and NDEs.

[nightshade]

Originally posted by Beef Jerky nightsade. You never respect anyones beliefs. You are a fascist bastard. Please, stop being a dick. Sry I've got holidays and was visiting the forum a lot and all this Beyond Dreaming stuff started to bother me. *stops being a dick* *tries to ignore all the supernatural stuff*

[Namaste]

Wow, it seems I got a lot of replies to my post, wasn't expecting so many. I believe that conciousness or soul survives physical death. After losing both my parents within the last 12 months plenty of events after their deaths and around the time of death is making me a believer in soul survival and conciousness survival. I learn so much each day about so many things it is great. One of the replies said that they were going to try to attain a higher level of conciousness before death and I think that it a good way of looking at things as the closer you are to spirit at death the easier the experience will be. Thanks for the book recommendations - will give them a read.

[Defect]

I never really have decided on my religous faith or afterlife beliefs. But, out of everyone here, I agree with arby. When you're dead, you're dead, and that's that. I do disagree with him though on it's stupid to discuss. We discuss this subject for the same reason why so many arbituary phone conversations between teens, chat rooms, old men talking about what's wrong with the world, why all of them exist. We have nothing better to do. Simple as that. What else are we gonna do? We have 60 years or so to do something, and talking is about as interesting as anything else. Anyways, I think religon is stupid. The problem with religon is that if join one, millions of others state you will go to hell or whereever bad people go according to their religon. I think your best bet is deciding for yourself and see what science proves. My thoughts.

[Howie]

]If someone finds something interesting to talk about then then great! If you don't like talking about it why did you post. Did you have to put your two cents in? Well you are a hypocrite, because you are engaging in the conversation. Smart ones! If you don't like it........ stay out of it...PERIOD. If the conscious can depart from the physical body I think this would go a long way in an argument that it can survive after death via a universal consciousness a soul or what have you. We already know that energy cannot fully be distinguished. Are physical body decays and turns to decomposing matter /energy. I would wish more for our consciousness.

[Distant Clone]

[quote]If the conscious can depart from the physical body I think this would go a long way in an argument that it can survive after death via a universal consciousness a soul or what have you.You mean like astral projections, or out of body experiences? I've done that, I know it's possible. I still think dreams actually occur in outer space somewhere, but that's pushing the conversation in a tangential direction.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Distant Clone You mean like astral projections, or out of body experiences? I've done that, I know it's possible. I still think dreams actually occur in outer space somewhere, but that's pushing the conversation in a tangential direction. Yes. AP, RV, and OBEs all are subjective. You may believe it exists. I may believe it and maybe the president. But because there is no substantial evidence and no way to prove it other than here say, we will always get into the realm of pseudoscience and the more outer reaches of the imagination. So what do you you believe will happen to the sychie after death?

[Defect]

If the conscious can depart from the physical body I think this would go a long way in an argument that it can survive after death via a universal consciousness a soul or what have you. [/b] Good point. Anyways, who are you talking to? I never thought about it that way. That's the best reason I've ever heard for argueing for life after death and for the soul's existence.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Defect If the conscious can depart from the physical body I think this would go a long way in an argument that it can survive after death via a universal consciousness a soul or what have you. Good point. Anyways, who are you talking to? I never thought about it that way. That's the best reason I've ever heard for argueing for life after death and for the soul's existence.[/b] Thanks Who....It was just a general response to everyone on the topic.