Imagination

[AnonymousTipster]

Imagination - the faculty of imagining, or of forming mental images or concepts of what is not actually present to the senses. A lot of people think that imagination allows us to imagine anything that we want, however, the truth is that we're either recalling something we've already experienced or combining several experiences into one. Example: Imagine a house. You'll probably recognise this house, it may be your own or it may be one you've seen elsewhere. Now try to imagine a house you've never seen before. Although this house seems to be new, it is likely to be made from your memories of other houses you've seen, it may be large like a mansion or small like a bungalow, but either of these will have been recalled from memory. Ok, you say, i'll imagine a pink mansion with yellow spots and a giant umbrella out the top; I've never seen that before. However, this is simply combining several images/concepts into one image. As far as I can tell, everything we try to imagine is simply a different way of recalling our experiences. Many people also derive inspiration from our dreams, but arguably, our dreams are simply re-organising experiences in a way we've never thought of ordering them before, rather than imagining completely new concepts. Now try and imagine something that no-one has experienced, try to imagine infinity. If you imagined an infinite length of string, you'd find it hard to grasp the concept of a true infinite string, as you stop imagining it when it goes outside your imaginary vision. You can take a mental step back to see more of the string, but you never actually reach infinity. The point of this rant is as follows: Is it possible to imagine something completely new, something which is not derived from pre-known experiences or concepts?

[ExoByte]

Yes, it is possible. Just incredibly difficult. The mind is a very powerful tool, and you can imagine concepts that do not actually already exist in your mind. You are right however that our memories are most likely just things we already know being combined together. I remember one dream posted, about someone seeing a new colour. Not anything part of the colour wheel, but litterally a new primary colour that we cannot see with our human eyes. Now, this is entirely plausable. There are colours that we cant see. Our brain wont recognize these colours, and will instead fill their place with White or Black. Some of the Sun's plasma contains these immpossible to see colours. Try to imagine a colour that does not exist in any form on the colour wheel, or bound by our rules of colour. Cant do it can you? Everything you try and imagine is a shade or form of colours you already know. But there are other colours out there, and people have experianced them in their imagination and dreams. Its just INCREDIBLY difficult.

[AnonymousTipster]

The problem with dreaming of new colours is: A. Being 100% sure that you saw a new colour, and not simply an illusion (the brain seems very good at making you believe something which never happened, such as a false memory. Therefore it would be possible for the brain to tell you that you saw a new colour, even though it was simply a shade of the visible rainbow. B. Describing it to a third party. Colour is ineffable, so a new colour would have to be described as 'kind of like blue and yellow, but really nothing like them. It reminded me of the smell of grass.' (We would end up using other senses to describe it, like red is hot) An interesting 'fact' I found on wikipedia: A brain has to learn and develop how to see colors. Patterns need to form in the V4 section of the visual cortex. These patterns are formed from exposure to wave lengths of light. This exposure is needed during the early stages of brain development. If you had only seen black and white objects all your life, and then were allowed to see something in full colour, the identifications and categorizations of color will only be in respect to representations of black and white. If true, even imagining a new colour would be impossible, as the brain wouldn't be able to perceive it unless we 'reprogrammed' ourselves. That brings an interesting concept to light: if it is possible to imagine a new concept or colour, it could be that in doing so, we have to 'reprogram' ourselves in order to imagine such a concept.

[Quartz]

An interesting 'fact' I found on wikipedia: A brain has to learn and develop how to see colors. Patterns need to form in the V4 section of the visual cortex. These patterns are formed from exposure to wave lengths of light. This exposure is needed during the early stages of brain development. If you had only seen black and white objects all your life, and then were allowed to see something in full colour, the identifications and categorizations of color will only be in respect to representations of black and white. If true, even imagining a new colour would be impossible, as the brain wouldn't be able to perceive it unless we 'reprogrammed' ourselves. [/b] What the hell? The extract from wikipedia says exactly the opposite! "A brain has to LEARN and develop how to see colours". And "'repgroammed' ourselves"? The mind reprograms parts of itself daily. When you learn a new skill you're 'reprogramming' yourself. By the end of today the things you have experienced will have changed you so very slightly. It's not a feat to reprogram your mind at all at ANY level. It's happening right now, all the time. The whole reason our species survived to this point is our ability to adapt. We can't instantly imagine a new base colour because we have learnt only the base colours our eyes are able to detect. This doesn't mean our minds arn't able to see a new colour, and in a highly creative state I'd say our minds are perfectly capable of inventing one. Oh, and the people I've heard say they've seen a new colour say they can remember it clearly and are certain it's not a false memory.

[AnonymousTipster]

What the hell? The extract from wikipedia says exactly the opposite! "A brain has to LEARN and develop how to see colours". And "'repgroammed' ourselves"? The mind reprograms parts of itself daily. When you learn a new skill you're 'reprogramming' yourself. By the end of today the things you have experienced will have changed you so very slightly. It's not a feat to reprogram your mind at all at ANY level. It's happening right now, all the time. The whole reason our species survived to this point is our ability to adapt. [/b] Learning something new could be in a different league to imagining something we've never experienced. Effectively, when we learn a skill, we've been shown a procedure which we store in our brains and recall when we need it. We can apply that skill in new areas by recalling that procedure with some new information. By 'reprogramming', I meant that we would be changing something in our brain which normally we don't do (such as changing our minds to perceive new colours). As I implied in my second post, I don't know whether that quote is wholly true or not, I was just using it to bring up a possibility. It's not a feat to reprogram your mind at all at ANY level [/b] So, by your logic, you would be able to tell your brain to interpret the colour red as green and green as red? That would take some effort, I think. Although it seems like I am arguing against original human creativity, I am just trying to be critical about it and welcome all points of view.

[Ne-yo]

I believe it is completely impossible to imagine anything that we haven't already been exposed to on some level. We have the ability to create but it's only limited by either something that draws reference or things that have been combined thus manifesting into something we would consider new. But it's not really new if the reference is drawn from something that IS.

[Quartz]

I believe it is completely impossible to imagine anything that we haven't already been exposed to on some level. We have the ability to create but it's only limited by either something that draws reference or things that have been combined thus manifesting into something we would consider new. But it's not really new if the reference is drawn from something that IS. [/b] What is this based on? As a race we have a ridiculously tiny amount of knowledge on the function of our minds and I doubt you even know much of what we know as a race! So, where's the backup?

[13redfan]

Ok, I agree that a lot of stuff we imagine is made up of little bits of everything we've seen or imagined, but I don't think it's beyond us to come up with new things non-existant, or see new colours, or make new ideas for computer games, mathematical theories, novels, porn scenes, the list is quite large. I mean think of the dude who invented the wheel. Where before had he seen a wheel? And think about eggs. We eat eggs, and these eggs come from the behinds of chicken. Who was the 1st oke to think "Hey, I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of that creatures ass"? I doubt it was something he'd seen before, it has to start somewhere right? Interestingly enough though, there's a thing called Spiritus Mundi which (I'm not entirely sure of so don't bet your house on this) is like a pool of thought from which all humans draw from. So anything we've ever thought of, seen, created, will ever think, etc. is in this pool. So all images in our head, music, etc. everything is in this pool. You might wana look it up, may add some belief to your theory. (side note: Spiritus Mundi is mentioned in Yeat's poem The Second Coming)

[becomingagodo]

Learning something new could be in a different league to imagining something we've never experienced. Effectively, when we learn a skill, we've been shown a procedure which we store in our brains and recall when we need it. We can apply that skill in new areas by recalling that procedure with some new information. By 'reprogramming', I meant that we would be changing something in our brain which normally we don't do (such as changing our minds to perceive new colours). As I implied in my second post, I don't know whether that quote is wholly true or not, I was just using it to bring up a possibility. [/b] yes but your forgetting that our thinking is based on past experiences so the only thing we capable of is juggling our idea not creating new ones. computer cant produce something new, So, by your logic, you would be able to tell your brain to interpret the colour red as green and green as red? That would take some effort, I think. Although it seems like I am arguing against original human creativity, I am just trying to be critical about it and welcome all points of view.[/b] yes it is possible it called synthesia. fore creativity i take a picasso aproach to find something new by losing and finding thing.

[blade5x]

The poster is right. We can't imagine something that we never exposed to before. That's why we can't imagine a new color, or what 4D would look like, and etc.

[13redfan]

The poster is right. We can&#39;t imagine something that we never exposed to before. That&#39;s why we can&#39;t imagine a new color, or what 4D would look like, and etc. [/b] So then how do people come up with new inventions? I quote myself (for emphasis ok): <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(13redfan &#064; Nov 15 2006, 08&#58;08 AM)</div> And think about eggs. We eat eggs, and these eggs come from the behinds of chicken. Who was the 1st oke to think "Hey, I&#39;m going to eat the next thing that comes out of that creatures ass"? I doubt it was something he&#39;d seen before, it has to start somewhere right? [/b] Someone thought up the toilet, sliced bread, chewing gum, the wheel, silicon breasts, artificial intelligence, the iPod, hubbly bubblys, computer mouses, laptops, plastic bottles, dildos, edible bras, pacman, retina scanners, microscopes, space craft, fake plants, cameras, pens, swords, burning pitch, anal sex, laser sights, staple guns, tissues, Mrs. Balls Chutney, biltong, car guards, Kreepy Kraulys, cell phones, etc. etc. etc. You guys are saying that it isn&#39;t possible to imagine new things. Then where did all these ideas come from? It has to start somewhere. If someone could explain that, then I&#39;ll happily accept your theory.

[becomingagodo]

Someone thought up the toilet, sliced bread, chewing gum, the wheel, silicon breasts, artificial intelligence, the iPod, hubbly bubblys, computer mouses, laptops, plastic bottles, dildos, edible bras, pacman, retina scanners, microscopes, space craft, fake plants, cameras, pens, swords, burning pitch, anal sex, laser sights, staple guns, tissues, Mrs. Balls Chutney, biltong, car guards, Kreepy Kraulys, cell phones, etc. etc. etc. You guys are saying that it isn't possible to imagine new things. Then where did all these ideas come from? It has to start somewhere. If someone could explain that, then I'll happily accept your theory. [/b] sliced bread came from the idea to combined wire to cut bread so you dont , the wheel i basic observation of thing rolling them making a ball, computer mouses our just a remote contol. the point is these can be reduced to simple thing like da vinchi airoplane is just a observation on bird. that's why we can't imagine a new color, or what 4D would look like, and etc.[/b] see these cant be simplified into our physical world so their beyound our imagination so our impossible to imagine. see all of the above use either verbal reasoning e.g. ipods so body seen the market knows of minidisk technology and then combined them using normal thought. 4D does not occur in our ordinary nature so cannot bee seen and so cant be product of our imagination only a product of mathmatic reasoing which is too complicated to go in here. also colour is a product of the visual spectrum of light so it impossible to see different colour as you would have to change the visual spectrum and stuff around your brain and plus it does not occur in nature.

[The Cusp]

THere are many instances of people who have done drugs in thier dreams who have never dont them in real life. Of those that tried the acutual drug, whatever it was in RL, they found the experience the same as the dream one. If you do a search, I'm sure you can turn up somethign on that subject