Thread: What If Precognition Isn't Mystical?

Originally Posted by Belisarius

After having several very specific precognitive dreams(mostly about food) [/b]

Well...I have dreams about food too...but I wouldn't call them precognitive. I mean, I do plan on eating the next day, it's not exactly ESP. Maybe I'm missing the point. Do you like dream somebody makes you a Red Velvet Cake with Phish Food on the side, and then it happens? Now that would be amazing....I'm mesmerized by the vision....

I can see the benefit, but what is the mechanism?

Originally Posted by Belisarius

After having several very specific precognitive dreams(mostly about food) I have pretty much accepted the reality of precognition. But what suggests that this phenomenon is mystical or religious in nature. Wouldn't it be evolutionarily beneficial for humans and other animals to develop this sense if it were physically possible? Historically we have tended to offer religious explanations of phenomena only when we have been unable to understand them scientifically. I see no reason why this couldn't be just another natural occurance that science has yet to explain. Perhaps the same process is at work when animals flee before earthquakes and tsunamis.[/b]

I agree with you, though I have no proof or anything else besides my and my family's experiences over the years to go on. I've pretty much accepted it as something that exists, but hasn't been proven or reproduced scientifically yet.

Mystical is only that which seems magical and is tied to a belief/religion. The unknown will always be odd like that. If it was known, it wouldn't be so amazing anymore (in one sense) because it would make sense to us. That aside, I don't personally believe such a scientific discovery will happen. We have a hard time as it is with simple thoughts and the idea of "self". Science is very weak as it is in some of it's "established facts". Precognition is real in my experience, as well as clairvoyance. The why and how are harder to answer.

so I dont believe in the mystical, or understand what it means for something to be mystical. magic? magic just means you dont understand the mechanics of what is happening, but you do understand the results or the meaning. fire once upon a time was a magical thing. and it still is a very magical thing to sit by a fire and eat some marshmellows, even if we understand the mechanics. (however, science does not truly understand why things affect us the way they do, they only understand the mechanics of how. a religious person might say a warm fire warms the heart becuase we have a spiritual heart made of burning energy, chakra and such)

so I never really concidered precognitive dreams mystical, or even supernatural. those terms are just used to scare science away since it doesnt want to go near supernatural things, it turns a blind eye once you use that term. the fact that sooooo many pepole have precognitive dreams shows that is a very natural process in the human brain. however, it does shake long held beliefs about science. and science may have to be turned upside to understand how *the mechanics* and why *the meaning* it happens. with precognitive dreams, everything we understand about time for example might be entirely wrong.

I disagree with Never that if something is known it ceases to be amazing. rainbows aren't any less beautiful when you understand how it works. storms still excite storm hunters who everything scientifical about storms. they practically went their pants when they hear a tornado is coming!! the problem is people think science answers all questions, and shows all persepctives. science doesn't. for example, emotions, the moment you believe that science is 100% accurate about emotions being that they are merely chemical reactions - is the moment you surrender any hope of knowing true love desired by western religions, or true peace, desired by eastern religions. the problem is also our understanding of a chemical reaction, a lifeless process, dead, lacking consciousness, random, meaningless. when we surrender to this belief we have nothing against taking drugs that artificially recreate these emotions. which I know, many are not against taking. but, we simply do not know everything about the brain, about consciousness, about emotions YET to surrender to such simple-minded explanations. when you bring in the reality that everything is just energy in some form, then we really have NO IDEA what we are doing when we take artificial emotions.

the same thing with electricity. its a lifeless thing according to science, emotionless, just a thing. but when you understand that electricity practically runs our brains, and could very well be apart of how consciousness works - it should give new light to electricity. not some lifeless thing, but raw energy that gives life, raw energy that carries THOUGHT. it does afterall, keep our hearts beating. however, becuase science has always maintained a very atheist approach to science, in that, there is nothing beyond than we can study under a microscope. .Rather than changing our perspective of what electricity is we fasely change our perspective of the brain instead, that it is a lifeless computer calculating endlessly.

I guess what I am trying to say is, how something works is not the same as the meaning behind something. Your world can be even more magical when you see meaning, and how things work don't degrade the meaning but enhance the understanding.

Originally Posted by Never

If it was known, it wouldn't be so amazing anymore (in one sense) because it would make sense to us.
[/b]

Precisely said and with the same usual generalisation as always.
Just because you do not know how to go about discovering the future, how to, say, create a fireball within your hand or to, perhaps, persuade someone to your will with the sheer force of intent, does not mean that absolutely no one has such skills. Lack of knowledge does not grant the right to make claims about the non-existence of something. Only about the non-existence of one's knowledge about it.

The concept of "mystical" things is a very biased one, or rather, a very close-minded one.
"If there is a will, there is a way" - for those open-minded enough, this typical saying gains a whole new meaning when placing true meaning into "will" and realising that there is always a "way".

Precisely said and with the same usual generalisation as always.
Just because you do not know how to go about discovering the future, how to, say, create a fireball within your hand or to, perhaps, persuade someone to your will with the sheer force of intent, does not mean that absolutely no one has such skills. Lack of knowledge does not grant the right to make claims about the non-existence of something. Only about the non-existence of one's knowledge about it.[/b]

I seem to have a knack for being misunderstood.

Where did I imply non-existence? I said things in one sense would be less amazing. It depends who is viewing and how they think. Everyone is different.

Actually, I agree with you both; I believe anything is possible. I am actually usually criticised for my idealism and radical philosophies, so this is a bit unsual.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Well...I have dreams about food too...but I wouldn't call them precognitive. I mean, I do plan on eating the next day, it's not exactly ESP. Maybe I'm missing the point. Do you like dream somebody makes you a Red Velvet Cake with Phish Food on the side, and then it happens? Now that would be amazing....I'm mesmerized by the vision....
[/b]

That's esentially what's happened. I've had several very specific dreams about food that have come true the next day.

Originally Posted by Belisarius

That's esentially what's happened. I've had several very specific dreams about food that have come true the next day.
[/b]

That's weird...food ESP. But one of the more useful sorts of precognition I guess (should I take my lunch or not?)....well except for like lottery number ESP. Funny how that never happens to anyone.