Thread: Succumbi

Originally Posted by LdMichael

no its not possible that they exist. surreal was either lying or mislead into believing this. thats my 2 cents. Id like some1 to try to prove to me this stuff is real. i'd be like C and go in cocky and cussing at the wall. then id feel stupid for yelling at a wall. end of story.

Lying or mislead? Well, I know I couldn't convince you that I was lying, short of taking you there... but as far as being mislead?

How are you so sure that they don't exist? The point of being a skeptic isn't to denounce the existence of something without evidence... it's to not believe something to be true without evidence. You can't say that they aren't real just because you're a skeptic, unless you are actually that arrogant.

And no, I was not being mislead. After all, those two instances weren't even the only ones... there have been five more occasions where weird, inexplicable stuff has happened. The next two cases after those happened I actually saw it. So, if I actually personally saw something with my own eyes, I don't think that it is possible that I was being mislead. You're only option left is to claim that I'm lying... but I'm fine with that. It's not like I haven't had to deal with people telling me that I'm lying about this before.

Oh and... just for clarification... C didn't go in yelling at the wall, he went in cussing the ghost out. And then he felt stupid later because it actually grabbed him.

And what about the black grime? I mean, C came into my car without it, and then when we got to the main road, it was there... it slowly formed on him, like a light layer of black tar (which could neither be dirt, nor mud...).

say the other 2 expieriences plz im interested.

Originally Posted by Ahhchuu

say the other 2 expieriences plz im interested.

Well... alright, this next experience happened only two nights later.

We all asked D what had happened that night... questions like, "Why did you stand up real quick and say 'Oh, sh*&!'"... this is his story of what had happened (I'll get to telling the next experience after you hear his side of the last one):

He said that he crouched down and looked in the window, and he saw a brilliant blue flame, about as big as a fist, just floating in the center of the room. It called to him, so he jumped through and entered.

When he got into the room, the blue flame transformed into what he could only say was the most beautiful woman he had ever seen (and he also added that it might be the most beautiful he would ever see...). Then she began talking to him...

She said that she was mad at C, and that he had disrespected her and all those living there. D began apologizing profusely... but she just told him to be quiet, that there was a way for him to make up for C's mistake. When he asked what that was, she told him to just follow her up into the hills, and she would tell him.

So, for whatever reason, he said ok... so she told him, "I'll be right back, just stay here until I return."

So he was there a couple minutes, and a couple other people started coming into the room. They were all dressed in 50's period clothing, and they started dancing to some 50's music one of them had put on. He was fascinated, but also troubled because she was taking a little too long.

After about a good 10 minutes, she came back. All the other people that were dancing abruptly stopped and left the room. She stepped through the doorway and she looked exactly like his major crush. She took him by the hand and said, "Let's go now, D... come up into the hills with me..."

So they crawled out back through the window, and he came up to my car and said that they were just going up into the hills for a little. That's where the two stories meet again.

Now... see, what's weird is that he never entered the house. When we told him that he never went through that window, he got very confused and almost began to cry... like a person on the verge of accepting that he's insane or something. Anyways, here's what happened two nights later:


So it was me, my brother, L, and D again, and we drove back up there and parked... there was also another friend of mine who parked behind me. So we're just sitting there and we began talking about the other people he saw. We surmised that they used to be real people like us, but when "she" fully got them, they were then trapped there with her. More conversation... blah blah... and then D speaks up.

He says, "I'm going outside guys. I need to go back up to the hills... I need to see her again." We all started trying to convince him not to go, and I had to keep pushing the lock button on my door so that he couldn't get out. I turn around and say, "D, I'm not letting you outside... if you were to try and go outside, I would physically try and stop you."

That's when things got weird... I turned back forward and noticed that the ceiling of my car was being illuminated from a bright flash from behind my car, so naturally I turn around to try and see what it was.

It was the car's headlights behind me... one of them was off, and the other one was flashing like a flash from a camera. It seriously was that bright... brighter than any headlights I had ever seen (plus the fact that the other one wasn't doing it). So I'm transfixed on it... just staring and watching it, fascinated.

All of a sudden, it stops flashing and goes really dull... like a deep reddish color. By now, I'm just thinking, "What the f(*&" in the back of my mind. So it stays that way for a few seconds, and then a blue flame appears inside the headlight, swirling around, and disappears...

Right when it disappeared, D opens my door (since I couldn't lock it because I was distracted), and starts getting pulled out.

Now, by "pulled" out, I mean just that. He had both feet in my car, and only his elbow was out of my car... his arm looked like it was being pulled by the elbow. It took all three of us just to keep him in the car; the pull was very, very strong. I thought quickly... I let go of him and slammed the door shut... and started driving like mad out of there.

The whole way back to the main road, D was still trying to open my door, even while I was driving. He even almost got out once, but I slammed it shut again.

When we finally got back, D couldn't remember what had happened... and looked kind of upset because he thought we were making it all up.

surrealist--- i dig your style. seriously though you should stop going back there , i suppose the scare is addicting.

i dont think hes been back since that last story.. lol

Not to put a damper on this...but is it possible that there was a gas leak, or some other substance in the air there that caused you all to hallucinate? I mean...It wouldn't necessarily have to be purposely induced hysteria to perpetuate the scenario like it seems to have been done.

how would the bright lights and blueflame come up if it was outside in their cars.

How would they have all hallucinated the same thing...

I've seen these things too. Very seductive until they get what they want. Then they turn hideous and terrifying. I think Surreal didn't know what a succubus truly was until this happened. And him not knowing is indeed a big factor, because from his experience, he very accurately described what a real succubus is like. Don't be so quick to doubt him.

Originally Posted by fairytale complex

surrealist--- i dig your style. seriously though you should stop going back there , i suppose the scare is addicting.

You're quite right... the place has a very seductive, almost pulling quality to it. Everyone who goes there wants to go there again the next day... no joke. We actually all sat down and had a whole discussion on why we wanted to go back there; in the end though, we realized we just wanted to go back for the heck of it, which scared us all to death since we all had that same urge. It's not the scare that's addicting though, it's almost like you get addicted to the proof of the supernatural... you want to see more and more of it. Believe me... it's freaky...

Originally Posted by Ahhchuu

i dont think hes been back since that last story.. lol

Actually, we've been back so many more times after that, I lost count. For some reason, none of our friends would believe us, and they thought it would be a cool party place, since it's out in the middle of nowhere... the freakiest things happened after those... believe it or not.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Not to put a damper on this...but is it possible that there was a gas leak, or some other substance in the air there that caused you all to hallucinate? I mean...It wouldn't necessarily have to be purposely induced hysteria to perpetuate the scenario like it seems to have been done.

Well, considering that the nearest gas main is probably around a mile away, I would tend to think that it wouldn't be possible in the least. I mean, imagine leaving a main road and driving through the desert a good mile... and then suddenly stumbling upon a group of four abandoned houses.

Originally Posted by Ahhchuu

how would the bright lights and blueflame come up if it was outside in their cars.

Good point actually... if it was something in the air making us all hallucinate, then we should be relatively safe in our cars. Plus, even the little bits that could potentially seep in wouldn't be enough to do anything at all. We did have all our windows up and doors closed after all; I mean, just for the sake of trying to not let the "whatever" in.

Originally Posted by Rainman

How would they have all hallucinated the same thing...

Exactly... see, the thing is, one of the other passengers saw the flame as well, but was afraid to tell anyone, lest he be thought a crazy person. He only told me when he knew for sure that I myself saw something too. And then I of course held back and let him describe it before I told him, and then lo and behold... the two descriptions of the flame matched up.

What's extremely odd about the flame wasn't that there was a blue flame inside someone's headlight, but that the flame itself looked strange. It looked like it didn't belong here, in this world... but I of course can't describe to you why, because I'm at a loss for words for something that can't be described with words.

And then L, who had been with D when he peered through the window, said he saw the flame in the same window D was looking into when he stood up. Guess what color he said it was? Ha ha... if we were all going crazy, we all went crazy together, and saw exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Rainman

I've seen these things too. Very seductive until they get what they want. Then they turn hideous and terrifying. I think Surreal didn't know what a succubus truly was until this happened. And him not knowing is indeed a big factor, because from his experience, he very accurately described what a real succubus is like. Don't be so quick to doubt him.

Actually, all these events made me extremely curious, and I went on-line and looked up as much as I could about these things. Turns out that I'm practically alone... I couldn't find one genuine account of someone meeting a succubus outside of dreaming or falling asleep. I mean, I'm actually still scared for R and D, because they both still act very strange (different than I had previously known them), and once in awhile I'll still catch them with that grin on their faces. I'm afraid that they are still partially possessed or something.

i wonder why they arent many reports of it.....

most people die from it? or posibly the people who do expierience it are possessed so that they dont want the world to know about them.

There are quite a few cases of social hysteria, in which one individual is capable of projecting hallucinations upon others with unconscious suggestion. There are pretty common, I'm not saying your wrong...or lying, or whatever...I'm just saying there are more logical explanations of what you experienced.

Wow, I read through all of that and it all seems a little strange.

I mean certain things sound believable, others.... I dunno seems as if maybe you're making some things up to make the story seem more exciting or plausible maybe.

Like as if you're inventing new facets to the story to make it seem like, or convince us that, there was a succubus there.

I think that these succubus and incubus things are real, although I'd be willing to bet it's more on another plane like in dreams and things, and less commonly on the physical plane.

That's not to say of course that it isn't possible, it just seems highly unlikely. Did any of the friends who got their jiggy on with the succubus thingy feel like they were getting drained? And if so how did they get away?

Have any other strange things happened there since, in all these parties that you go to?

What did the people in 50's clothes do? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me why they were there. Is the place haunted?

Sigh. Surreal, this is one of those things where you have to ignore other people's doubts. Very few people will ever believe you, just like very few people believe me. You know what you saw. Fuck what anyone else thinks. The other thing is, I believe I know what you mean about wanting to go back. You're drawn to it right? Same thing happened to me (not with succubi) and I wanted to go back. Don't. Ever. Trust me. Do not go back. There are things there that can affect your physical health, and affect your mind, and your astral self.

It can really fuck you up for the rest of your life. Literally. People kill themselves after experiences like this because they can't get the images out of their brains. Bad things happen when you go back. You're passively telling whatever is there that you want to encounter it again. The scariest part is not the entity though is it? The scariest part is that part of you wants to see it again don't you? It's perfectly normal, but I can't stress enough that you should definitely never go back again.

The reason you're not finding many other authentic experiences with succubi, is because in my experience, succubi on the physical plane are rare. I've never even heard of one in the physical plane until your experience. I've dealt with them astrally before. Crazy. I can't imagine how terrifying it must have been. But you gotta stop going back.

Originally Posted by Sandform

There are quite a few cases of social hysteria, in which one individual is capable of projecting hallucinations upon others with unconscious suggestion. There are pretty common, I'm not saying your wrong...or lying, or whatever...I'm just saying there are more logical explanations of what you experienced.

This is something so far removed from what could've happened, I'm almost at a loss for how to respond. You're saying that I unconsciously responded to suggestions from other people, which created the hallucination of the flame? Sounds like a skeptic's argument to me. You obviously won't believe anything I say, so you might as well just not read this then.

Originally Posted by 13redfan

Wow, I read through all of that and it all seems a little strange.

I mean certain things sound believable, others.... I dunno seems as if maybe you're making some things up to make the story seem more exciting or plausible maybe.

That falls under the "lying" part already stipulated by someone else on this thread. I obviously can't prove to you that I'm telling the truth (which is the whole truth, by the way), but you can look at it logically: what would I get out of lying about this except for ridicule?

The stories are 100% fact. I actually left out a lot more that would make it seem even more like a succubus was there, but that was only because they wouldn't fit into the flow of the narrative. You see, I didn't want to stick like three different people's perspectives into one. My story is corroborated by all those others.

Originally Posted by 13redfan

That's not to say of course that it isn't possible, it just seems highly unlikely. Did any of the friends who got their jiggy on with the succubus thingy feel like they were getting drained? And if so how did they get away?

Thank you for at least accepting the possibility... many people don't even do that. Although I could actually care less what anyone thinks though. Mainly I'm just glad that I finally have proof, at least to myself, that the supernatural is real.

Originally Posted by 13redfan

Have any other strange things happened there since, in all these parties that you go to?

Actually, yes... a few more instances happened. The thing is still there too, I just haven't been back in a little while.

Originally Posted by 13redfan

What did the people in 50's clothes do? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me why they were there. Is the place haunted?

I have a theory about this... but D didn't really expound on it. All he mentioned was that when "she" left the room, the other people came in. He also said that they set up and old-style radio or something, and that was the music they were dancing to.

What I believe is that when he went through the window, he most likely went somewhere where time and space were warped. Because, he said he went inside and talked... etc, etc... but to all of us he just paused there a couple seconds and said, "Oh, sh*&!". He experienced a whole 10-20 more minutes than all of us did... who knows what those other people where, but they were probably ghosts from when that house had inhabitants... just blindly going about what they always did.

Originally Posted by Rainman

Sigh. Surreal, this is one of those things where you have to ignore other people's doubts. Very few people will ever believe you, just like very few people believe me. You know what you saw. Fuck what anyone else thinks.

Exactly... I notice that there are the skeptics on here (which is great), and then there are the arrogant skeptics... the ones that say that it must not be true if there isn't sufficient evidence for it. That's like someone saying that God must not exist, since there is no direct, verifiable evidence to support it. Willfully ignorant.

Originally Posted by Rainman

The other thing is, I believe I know what you mean about wanting to go back. You're drawn to it right? Same thing happened to me (not with succubi) and I wanted to go back. Don't. Ever. Trust me. Do not go back. There are things there that can affect your physical health, and affect your mind, and your astral self.

You understand then... that's great, actually. It was crazy too, cause a few of my friends were all talking about that "drawing" feeling, and the band "Incubus" comes on. We all jumped a little... ha ha...

Also, about your astral self... don't worry... even D told me that "she" was afraid of me. For some reason, he says, she never mentions me, my brother, or my friend L by name... almost as if she's afraid to.

I don't even know whether or not to say the next few experiences... no one would ever possibly believe me. Probably not even you, Rainman.

Originally Posted by Surrealist

This is something so far removed from what could've happened, I'm almost at a loss for how to respond. You're saying that I unconsciously responded to suggestions from other people, which created the hallucination of the flame? Sounds like a skeptic's argument to me. You obviously won't believe anything I say, so you might as well just not read this then.

Well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be from other people...
Object A could produce the idea that blue flame B is over there.
Person C D and E see object A, which then projects to person C D or E that B is there, while at the same time the other two of C D E see that same A, which then causes them to have the idea of B, meanwhile, B's existence is reinforced by the other persons C D and E.

Didn't you say you went there because you expected there to be a ghost or whatever?

Your right, I wont believe that what you say happened the way you believe it did... But uh, that doesn't mean i'm saying your lying, it just means I think you've gotten a wire crossed somewhere while in processing the events in question. Its kind of messed up, i'm not trying to argue...I just don't know how to respond without sounding cocky...I mean the only way to respond to this would be, "ok" which makes me sound like a condescending ass. And i'm not necessarily saying that what you experienced didn't happen the way you interpret it...I just think that there are more likely explanations of things than spirits did it.

Like I could argue to you that it is actually Aliens who set up a base there and are experimenting on the human mind or something...you know, I mean that is as far fetched as spirits did it.

I don't even know whether or not to say the next few experiences... no one would ever possibly believe me. Probably not even you, Rainman.

POST IT!!!!

Originally Posted by Ahhchuu

POST IT!!!!

I agree, its not about who doesn't believe you, its bout who does! =)

Sandform no one's asking you to believe what any of us say. But if you don't, why are you in this forum? I could swear it specifically says under the link "this forum is only for people who believe in the subjects in this forum". Explain? EDIT: sorry you posted while i was writing this.

I can verify things surrealist has seen. I have seen similar things myself, and when I saw them, I had no knowledge of any of it. Like surrealist, I started reading up on this stuff after I experienced it myself. And with me there's no accidnet, there's no psychological stuff going on. I know a lot about psychology, I study NLP and know all about subliminal effects on the mind. I know that one's psychological condition can even cause one to hallucinate, as I could probably convince you that I can bend a spoon with my mind, when in fact I am inducing a hallucination. I know what those things look like, and they aren't likely to happen to me.

Some things cannot be explained. Somethings just are the way the are. Period. If you can't accept that, you do not need to be in this BEYOND dreaming forum, where I repeat, it says that non believers do not belong here. Don't hijack the thread. This is about what surrealist experienced, not whether or not you believe what he experienced. The end.

Surrealist, it's really up to you. If you share your experiences with us, I'd be glad to read them, but you'd take a lot of bullshit from assholes. But don't let other people try to discount what you saw. And by the way, Sandform, I do actually want to thank you for always being civil. You're one of the few skeptics that I truly respect.

Originally Posted by Rainman

Sandform no one's asking you to believe what any of us say. But if you don't, why are you in this forum? I could swear it specifically says under the link "this forum is only for people who believe in the subjects in this forum". Explain? EDIT: sorry you posted while i was writing this.

I can verify things surrealist has seen. I have seen similar things myself, and when I saw them, I had no knowledge of any of it. Like surrealist, I started reading up on this stuff after I experienced it myself. And with me there's no accidnet, there's no psychological stuff going on. I know a lot about psychology, I study NLP and know all about subliminal effects on the mind. I know that one's psychological condition can even cause one to hallucinate, as I could probably convince you that I can bend a spoon with my mind, when in fact I am inducing a hallucination. I know what those things look like, and they aren't likely to happen to me.

Some things cannot be explained. Somethings just are the way the are. Period. If you can't accept that, you do not need to be in this BEYOND dreaming forum, where I repeat, it says that non believers do not belong here. Don't hijack the thread. This is about what surrealist experienced, not whether or not you believe what he experienced. The end.

Surrealist, it's really up to you. If you share your experiences with us, I'd be glad to read them, but you'd take a lot of bullshit from assholes. But don't let other people try to discount what you saw. And by the way, Sandform, I do actually want to thank you for always being civil. You're one of the few skeptics that I truly respect.

Hmm, I don't know how many answers there should be to that post...
Well one, yeah, it does say that you should only post if your a believer but...

Originally Posted by Keeper

Succumbi and Incubi. We know what they are, but is it possible that they exist?

Thread starter ftw! Since it is a question, I have to be inclined to give my opinion, and anything in the thread, due to the thread starter, is under the same scrutiny. In essence, by posing a question to the validity of the issue in the first place, this topic is in the wrong forum.

I just know that the human mind is a complex thing, and if you think of something enough, you can start to believe it to a very advanced point...So I always feel sad when people don't try to think about logical possibilities. The mentality that if you "can't explain it there isn't an [a rational] explanation" makes me sad also. Like...you look at these events and automatically say, since such and such happened, it must be because of this thing that doesn't adhere to regular laws of the universe. You also would say I don't have an open mind because I don't necessarily believe that it is spiritual or etc. but at the same time, you are being close minded by saying that it can not possibly have a rational explanation. We're all close minded, because if you believe anything, your close minded. That is kind of depressing.

Thx for the respect =)

whoooaaaa. My bad. You're right. I totally didn't realize Keeper's original post. I withdraw that part.

As I said, I understand the ways of the human mind. I know it to an extent to where I can manipulate people with no more difficulty than it takes for me to sit down and stand up. I say you don't have an open mind because you must automatically determine that the paranormal is impossible.

You cannot say that I am closed minded, because I always consider all sides of an argument and choose from the most logical one based on many factors including some science and some things that are paranormal. You, do not. You immediately assume that whatever we "believers" say is bullshit, and that makes YOU closed-minded, not I, my friend. I am very open to things. You think when I first saw some of the shit I saw that I didn't think I was crazy? Believe it or not, I was a HEAVY skeptic once. Until some of this stuff happened to me that literally cannot be explained by science.

I study the mind. It is what I do. Even with what I know about it, I could not rationally explain what I saw, because I talked to other people whom I did not know who had experienced similar things, and their recounts matched mine. One could argue that this is a result of unconscious/subliminal factors that I picked up on, that everyone picks up on. Not so. Why? because I, like you, was once a person who immediately deemed everything paranormal as nonsense.

My mother was always into the paranormal. I was embarassed of her. I was ashamed. I thought she was crazy and was so quick to "diagnose her" as such. I was sad because I thought she was losing her mind. I constantly tried to prove to her that none of this existed and that it was all in her head. But there were always elements of things that I could not prove were in her head. One could argue that things I have experienced were a result of my subconscious WANTING to experience these things, and my mind produced them. I think I just disproved that one with my last argument. But in case I didn't properly, I am also in good communication with my subconscious. I know what it's saying, and I know how to make it listen to me (which by the way is an excellent LDing tool, I'll get into that perhaps later) so that wouldn't be it.

What I'm trying to say is things happened to me. You cannot discount what I saw just like you cannot discount what surrealist saw. I know what I saw just as sure that I know that I am sitting here right now typing this. Would you tell me just as surely as you deny the paranormal that I am not sitting here? Would you tell me that me sitting here is all in my head?

Of course you wouldn't. Because that defies common sense. But lets take a look at what common sense is. Common sense really is nothing more than a social standard. What people come to know. What the average of each person's schemata in a society tell them about different things. It's 'common sense' that if you touch a flame, you'll burn or hurt your hand. It's common sense that if you jump off of the top of the sears tower, you will die. It is common sense that 100 pennies equals a dollar.

But common sense is not ALWAYS fact. So you would not deny that I am sitting here typing this right now, but from MY perspective, can you prove that I am not? Can you prove to ME that this is not all in my head? That I am not a mental patient in the future inventing a virtual world all in my brain? You can prove that in common sure. Other people could see that I am here. But to me it could all be in my head.

So lets flop this around. Can you prove to me that what I'm seeing IS all in my head? No. So once again, it is the skeptics, not I, who are closed-minded. I acknowledge with a large degree of sincerity ALL sides of things. You immediately discard anything that is outside the realms of CURRENT science. You don't even know how science will be in the future. Electricity wasn't even considered at one time. Now you would throw science in anyone's face who denied electricity. Lucid dreams too. That one is more recent. There are still people who don't know that lucid dreaming has been scientifically proven.

So in 20 years if it's hypothetically been proven that all psi related phenomena exist, then what? Do I get to throw the science card at you? I think people on this forum take the term "believers" too far. Just because I'm open-minded, doesn't mean I'm retarded. It also doesn't mean I just believe every bs story I hear, and I hear a lot. In fact if you all read some of the posts I've got on here, they are from a skeptic's point of view. I argue on the skeptic side a lot, because of what I've seen, and how i've learned how things like this work, I can reasonably determine what's real and what's not.

Being a believer doesn't mean I accept everything. It just means I am always open to the possibility. Are you? Wow...sorry for the super long post hahahaha. Just read through it.

Again, sandform a lot of this isn't directed straight at you. Just in general. It's always great debating with you. I wish there were more members who had the maturity level you do. SEE SKEPTICS???? It's possible to share your point with dignity and maturity, and civility.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Well, it wouldn't necessarily have to be from other people...
Object A could produce the idea that blue flame B is over there.
Person C D and E see object A, which then projects to person C D or E that B is there, while at the same time the other two of C D E see that same A, which then causes them to have the idea of B, meanwhile, B's existence is reinforced by the other persons C D and E.

But all this falls apart if no one else sees "object A" but me. If I look behind me, trying to figure out what could be lighting up my ceiling, I look with the open possibilities of a vast number of different things. You see, when I actually turned around, I thought that maybe someone in the back seat was flicking a lighter repeatedly... but then I noticed the car's headlight.

When I was watching the car's headlight, I then noticed that it went dim.

After watching it dim for a few seconds, a blue flame appears inside the headlight. I have no idea how your model for situational-induced hallucinations could produce that, as I was actively trying to figure out what it was as it was happening. Your theory only applies to situations where the person observing doesn't have enough time to mentally process all the available information, so they come up with some other "thing" that they saw.

Alas though, if you must denounce anything paranormal anyone sees as a hallucination, then so be it. I prefer to be open-minded regarding everything and anything. Don't think for one second that I dismissed your train of thought right off the bat... I did a fair share of my own thinking trying to rationalize what I saw immediately following, and even a few weeks, after I saw it. I eventually, looking at all the possible explanations, ruled out all but the paranormal.

For your theory to work in this situation, I would've had to have seen something substantial, that looked blue, materialize in the person's headlight. I would've then, in a state of panic, not observed it all correctly, and therefore "thought" I saw a blue flame. Tell me, what is big, blue, and randomly appears in people's headlights?

But I really don't feel like discussing this further... if you don't believe me, then fine. Hooray for you... as about 2 years ago I wouldn't have believed myself either.

Originally Posted by Ahhchuu

POST IT!!!!

Originally Posted by Rainman

Surrealist, it's really up to you. If you share your experiences with us, I'd be glad to read them, but you'd take a lot of bullshit from assholes. But don't let other people try to discount what you saw.

Well, I guess I'll post them, but only because there are people actually interested in them instead of being interested in tearing them apart. And I really don't care about the "assholes..." I have my small group of friends, including my brother, who all have seen things I've seen and totally believe me. That's enough for me.


I'll call these next few "mini-events," because they all aren't as full blown as the last, but still significant.

So the next day, me and my friend L decide to go up there during the daytime (for once) and take some pictures... since we were both so intrigued by the place.

We get there, snap a few pictures, and then go to the nearest Denny's. After a while there, we decide to head back for a few more pictures. We then notice that there is smoke in the hills.

After driving there, we see that the room that D was peering into is engulfed in flames. In the short 20 minutes since we left and came back, the whole roof had collapsed, and we could hear fire engines in the distance.

We weren't smoking or anything, and did nothing that should have lit any kind of fire. It spontaneously lit itself. We thought that real strange, seeing as how "she" got so mad the other night when I didn't let D back out of the car.


My brother and this girl are sitting in the main house with a fire in the fireplace (yes, it has a working fireplace still). They were just casually talking when they noticed a car fall to the floor. A cup nearby then starts to roll straight towards them. It reaches where they are sitting, and then my brother feels a hand caress his face. He gets up and they head out of there.

The most interesting part of this one is that I asked him what kind of cup it was. He said that it was a medium-sized McDonald's cup. You see, a cup like that can't roll straight... it must roll in a circle. It rolled completely straight over a distance of about 25 feet. Impossible, unless you lifted the small end off the ground a little bit.


C decides, after all that has happened (and maybe to get back at "her"), that he is going to go into one of the rooms with this poem on it, and scrape all the paint( and thus the poem) off the wall. Well, he takes a brick and scrapes all the paint off... the poem is now completely gone... no trace of the words are left on the wall... none. I go back there the next day to take some pictures of it, only to see the poem back the way it originally was.


The last thing that ever happened there is probably the most in-depth... but I'll wait a little while to post that. You can all reply to these while I figure out if I even want to post it.

Originally Posted by Rainman

So lets flop this around. Can you prove to me that what I'm seeing IS all in my head? No.

Well, technically everything you see is all in your head.

Well, the problem is, there are people in psych wards right now that believe they are in fact currently seeing things, but they are not...

There was a show one time, I watched when I was younger...although the title of the show is irrelevant, i'll tell you what it was. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."

One episode she got poisoned and started hallucinating that she was really in a psych ward, and she was told the only way to free herself of her delusion (of the reality that she is not in a psych ward) is by killing her friends that tie her to her insanity... Her friends plead with her and ask her why she is killing them, and well, the back and forth has been going on and her friends know everything about what is happening to her.

At one point her friend says please don't do this, we have the antidote, take it and you'll be able to see everything clearly again this is real.

Buffy responds "Yeah, right, cause what makes more sense? A super powered demon killer with magical friends, or a scared little girl in a psych ward?" That is kinda semi quoted but yuh get the idea.

Originally Posted by Rainman

So in 20 years if it's hypothetically been proven that all psi related phenomena exist, then what? Do I get to throw the science card at you? I think people on this forum take the term "believers" too far. Just because I'm open-minded, doesn't mean I'm retarded. It also doesn't mean I just believe every bs story I hear, and I hear a lot. In fact if you all read some of the posts I've got on here, they are from a skeptic's point of view. I argue on the skeptic side a lot, because of what I've seen, and how i've learned how things like this work, I can reasonably determine what's real and what's not.

Of course...and if spiritual phenomena is proven beyond a doubt scientifically with repeatable tests as well with a control and a dependent variable, and used in scientific application on a consistent basis, then you can throw that in my face as well. Of course it wont mean much...since I believe in things with proof...and right now there really isn't much proof of such things. And the only proof out there are proofs that aren't testable. So if it ever is proven, I will be at a loss of embarrassment.

I would LOVE to be wrong, because I love to learn, however I will always seek to find the most logical answer. Some intellectual asshat once said, the simplest answer is often the correct one. In that regard, a logical answer is more likely than an illogical one.

what is the poem?

Just so you know surrealist I do like hearing about your experiences...they are interesting to say the least. Just because i'm not in the loop when it comes to these kind of experiences doesn't mean I don't want to hear, and don't believe its possible...I simply think that there are more logical explanations that can be exhausted first.