Thread: tell me have you ever encountered a spiritual form?

Originally Posted by saxonharp

The web IS full of sites dedicated to the "supernatural". Just because they provide evidence that doesn't satisfy you doesn't mean it's any less real.

thats the wonderful thing about human behavior; if enough people say something is true/false, people will believe it.
in essence, there is no such thing as fact; fact is merely an idea that is widely excepted by a large group of people.

There is loose science to prove the presence of this energy termed as ghosts; like orbs, energy fluctuations, electronic voice phenomenon. . .
well, take antimatter for example. . .like, 20 years ago it was science fiction; matter that was the opposite of matter, appearing out of nowhere as if it came from another realm of existence altogether. . .but now, we are making antimatter, we've even constructed anti-hydrogen. there you have it, science fiction turned into science.
so, just like quantum physics, I feel ghosts are just the product of a field of science yet to be discovered and understood by us yet.
haha. . .and you know what we do to things we don't understand, we fear them, blow them out of proportion, make dumb movies about them. . .

and to respond to saxonharp: i was swept up in that whole moon conspiracy too. im on the fence now. we do have a reflective plate up there so we ca measure the distance the moon is from us within millimeteres....but ive done some digging and it only gets weirder. lets just say, I think we did get to the moon, but i think we found a lot more than we bargained for. . .long story short, i do not think we were the ones who put that reflective plate there. . .you can never believe what the internet tells you though. . .so do some digging of your own.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

The web IS full of sites dedicated to the "supernatural". Just because they provide evidence that doesn't satisfy you doesn't mean it's any less real.

There's still a whole bunch of people who believe the Apollo missions were staged and we never landed anyone on the moon. For them, no amount of "evidence" is satisfactory. You can always find some way to refute evidence - ask any trial lawyer.

You failed to remember "if they did we would have at least one testable, repeatable experiment to prove it."

Show me some links btw, what is credible enough proof for you anywhere in the world that I can gain access too? Should I just take your word for it that you see things and do things? Should I just take your word that you can go into the past and do things?

Let me put this into a different form.

How can I prove that...

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Part of the work I do involves helping people cross over. I've helped two directly and 13 with the assistance of my Guides and Benefactor.

The souls of those who have died are real and they are all around us.

Some are here because they don't realize they're dead, some because they are still too attached to the Tonal or someone in the Tonal to finish their journey, and some because they are too ashamed, feel guilty, or are afraid of retribution if they go into the light.

is true to myself?

How can I see these "dead" people. How can I prove such things to myself? Since you can't provide enough proof for me, certainly you can tell me how to prove it to myself.

People refuse to see the truth, everyone has their own truth. Materialistic things aren't everything.

do an expieriment and people will still refuse it, and say it's our brains.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

People refuse to see the truth, everyone has their own truth. Materialistic things aren't everything.

do an expieriment and people will still refuse it, and say it's our brains.

Thats why I want someone to prove it to me. By telling me how to prove it to myself. Obviously they've proven it to themselves so it shouldn't be to hard to tell me how to prove it to myself.

You can't really prove it unless it's yourself. People will keep on saying so and so isn't true because this and that is what cause it, impossible to prove it because people are so...whatever that name would be.

Thats the freaking point! Tell me how to prove it to myself. Thats all I want. That can't be difficult since other people have proven it to themselves.

yup. lots...: (

Originally Posted by Sandform

Thats the freaking point! Tell me how to prove it to myself. Thats all I want. That can't be difficult since other people have proven it to themselves.

What of the supernatural do you want to prove?

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

What of the supernatural do you want to prove?

Anything. Ghosts, psi, demons, angels, anything at all.

I've had my fair of supernatural encounters, before during and post Ouija Board. Fair to say, I encountered a LOT of crazy shit whilst using the Ouija Board, some fairly freaking shit. It's a wonder why horror movies can't scare me lol

A list of just some of what I have personally witnessed, this is with my own eyes.


- One time while using the Ouija Board we could see orbs around us; a purple, teal and yellow orb. But we got a not nice spirit on the board and all of us saw a black orb appear in the top left hand corner of the room and move around the room. It didn't fully move but appeared to shift from place to place so fast you could only see it when it stopped. We ran out of the house.

- While in the pool in my backyard, we were in the deep end just talking one night, not even shifting the water much. Out of nowhere a violent splashing occured, as if semi-large animal or perhaps a smller person fell in and thrased wildly. There was nothing in the pool, we just ran into the house as the splashing continued. We talked to this spirit Vanessa who claimed to be a a 7 year old girl that had drowned not far from my house.

- While doing the dishes, I dropped a spatula, when I stood up all fourteen cupboards in my kitched had open doors.

- (the potential demon) One night the lock on my door turned and something tugged at the foot of my blankets. I turned the light on and hard trouble getting back to sleep. I was almost convinced during this period (no more than 6 months after Ouija Use desisted) a demon (not religious way) was in my house. This was around the same time I had of my most powerful, frightening and traumatizing nightmares.

During the same time me and two friends all seen a tall, opaque black mass move across my bedroom door. We all froze and just stared at the doorway with a 'did you guys just fucking see that?' look on our faces. There was also a voice out of the speakers once according to my friend and at one time I had to unplug my speakers do to loud static (while they were off) and it happened again after I unplugged them so I tossed them out the door.


- (Ouija Board happenings; a list)

First off, keep in mind I can protest to the last day about the subconcious mind apparently moving the plancette making it seem like you're not doing it because it's a subconcious decision. Thing is, besides the fact I've seen people who don't know things give the right answers on the board. Hell, for about a year our fingers didn't even have to the touch it...it literally just moved underneath our hands.

--One time the planchette levitated off the board and spun like how a plastic moves wen you dropped it and just boucned back and forth all ways until it stops.

--A friend of mine started insulting this one spirit and the planchette literally flew across the room (I'd say a good five or six feet from the board) and hit him right between the eyes.

--TV shut on and off by itself
--Lights flickered on and off.

--Friends who didn't know how my other friend Dave died told us what only me and Dave knew because the spirit on the board said it.

--We got a spirit to once extinguish and relit a candle...that was trippy

--I talked to my Grandma on there, I knew it was her...she knew things that only I would know.

--We encountered two bad spirits often. Both were powerful and could see far and had an uncanny ability at just knowing what we couldn't know.

---Alex, who according to my friend haunted him when he was a child and his parents back up a some of the stories. When we first started talking to Alex he said he was a teenager who's dad murder him for being a queer. It went for a couple months like that but somewhere along the line he change. Had a different tone to him. He was a prick but entertaining before but suddently wasn't.

Once we asked him where one of our group of 4 Brian was. Alex tells us 'he's coming home from Courtice (neighbouring town) with his parents right now, he'll be here in fifteen minutes.' So I call Brian's cell and sure enough he's doing exactly that. Showed up exactly fifteen minutes later. Once he said knock, knock and someone knocked on the door not half a minute later. Once he said my friend was having sex with his girlfriend so we called him and he'd just finished...ya know.

Once I played red light green light with him, that was hilarious and fun.

But when we started talking to Satan more (or at least that what they called themselves, sure it was an alias) and we found out Alex was aligned with Satan.

---Satan was definitely creepy. I don't believe in God or the Devil so didn't look too deeply into the name...though it was creepy to see show up on the board, each letter was pointed to so emphatically. Anyways, we seen many of the stuff I listed in the -- section with this spirit. Sometimes the planchette moved so fast during these sessions we could hardly follow it with our hands.

It spoke of many things, weird things. Quite often it spoke of Urex. We were unsure what it was, but it was apparently some kind of power. I cannot recall a great many details and there was very litte information available on the internet on this. I did find however that there is a company called Urex Energy who is in nuclear power. I swear...if that company is in someway connected to the a nuclear holocaust I will shit my pants...doesn't help I live within 50 kilometers of two nuclear power plants. I can see one from the beach five minutes from my house. The other isn't visible but I can see the CN Tower from the same beach on a clear day (it's roughly 100 someodd km away) and the plant is a good 40 out of the CN tower.

I Can't even describe how fast the planchette moved with this. Many times it would simply point back and forth A - M, A - M getting faster and faster. It wouldn't tell us anymore than that, even when we asked. Still have no idea what the hell that's supposed to mean.



I'll post more later, I'm tired and will probably start rambling in stead of actually telling of these occurences.

And as for this debate on people who need proof. There is plenty of footage and probable evidence all around us, all the time. It's whether or not you choose to believe or to disavow it as tricks of the eye or watching a ghost on film that is a work and not real. It's this need for proof that has derailed our search for what is actually around us.

It's a good chance a non-believer has never had any kind of paranormal encounter. I've had my fair share but then again, I would say I'm slightly sensitive to such things. Everything I talked about in my prior post actually happened to me and I experienced it. Whether you choose to believe me or not isn't what I care about. I could give two shits if anyone believes me, I don't have to prove my experience to anyone nor do I want to. I'm just sharing my experiences. If you don't believe me, I don't need to hear about it, I don't care, it's your life. And since I know there is a lot more to this world than meets the eye, I can just have a smug satisfaction of knowing some people would never believe me.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Let me put this into a different form.

How can I prove that...



is true to myself?

How can I see these "dead" people. How can I prove such things to myself? Since you can't provide enough proof for me, certainly you can tell me how to prove it to myself.

Unfortunately, you find yourself in a catch 22. To believe, you must experience. But without belief, you will not experience.

Sorry. I can't help you.

Heres a few.

In my first house, we could hear footsteps in the ceiling, the attic upstairs was very dusty, and no footprints or anysigns of movement were found.

My mother had the door slam on here when she was in a room, and she pushed with all her might, and it wouldn't budge, she yelled out, "Let me out!" and the do swung open.

I've had stuff move around without anyone touching them, but that could be anything.

You can feel someone following you and looking at you when on the second floor of our house, but that could also be anything.

Windows like to open in our house, without anyone touching them.

You can hear footsteps on our second floor with no one awake, or even up there.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

without belief, you will not experience.

Why is that true?

Originally Posted by Sandform

Why is that true?

Because you have to allow yourself to suspend your "rationality". You have to be open to the idea that such things CAN be experienced before you will recognize them as anything other than some random happenstance and dismiss them.

The wind is just the wind until you can accept the possiblity that it is the voice and touch of God.

Some people have to literally be beaten over the head with what you call "evidence" before they can even begin to accept that there is the possibility of more than what our science can describe for us.

The Sorcerer, Don Juan Matus, did just that with his student Carlos Castaneda. If you haven't already read it, "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" is a very good description of how someone "learns" to accept what most people call "the Supernatural".

Lol oh I read some of Carlos' books. I absolutely love the complete incorrect historical value it has on the human race (the one I read at least). Lol almost as good as the Mormons human history of the America's...

Originally Posted by Sandform

Lol oh I read some of Carlos' books. I absolutely love the complete incorrect historical value it has on the human race (the one I read at least). Lol almost as good as the Mormons human history of the America's...

Regardless of the veracity of Castaneda's writings, you asked how one must first have belief before one can experience. I offered that book as a much more thorough and experiential description than I could give on this forum.

If you wish to change the subject to one which dicusses Castaneda and the value of what he put in his books, there's another thread that's doing that. You should go there.

Here's the link:http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/spirituality-consciousness-awareness/17044-carlos-castaneda-2.html[/URL]

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Regardless of the veracity of Castaneda's writings, you asked how one must first have belief before one can experience. I offered that book as a much more thorough and experiential description than I could give on this forum.

If you wish to change the subject to one which dicusses Castaneda and the value of what he put in his books, there's another thread that's doing that. You should go there.

Here's the link:http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/spirituality-consciousness-awareness/17044-carlos-castaneda-2.html[/URL]

Your right I shouldn't have been so rude.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Because you have to allow yourself to suspend your "rationality". You have to be open to the idea that such things CAN be experienced before you will recognize them as anything other than some random happenstance and dismiss them.


The Sorcerer, Don Juan Matus, did just that with his student Carlos Castaneda. If you haven't already read it, "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" is a very good description of how someone "learns" to accept what most people call "the Supernatural".

if you think of it scientifically, the brain is bombarded by an enormous amount of information constantly. To avoid a 'cerebral overload' of sorts, your brain prioritizes certain information it deems most important, everything else is lost. (If your brain doesn't do this then you will be like Rain Man, his brain was information-driven). The way I look at it, all your ideologies and beliefs tells your brain what to let in and what to essentially, keep out. the book Flat Land connects to this topic nicely. . .
its society-driven as well. The way I see it now, except for a special select few, most of us have let go of our true spiritual side and have become completely dedicated to a materialistic reality.. . .we all grew up on the fact that what we see is what we get so why not?

THE ART OF DREAMING!! mind blowing book by Casteneda as well.

Originally Posted by HonerableMoUsE

To avoid a 'cerebral overload' of sorts, your brain prioritizes certain information it deems most important, everything else is lost.
THE ART OF DREAMING!! mind blowing book by Casteneda as well.

The mind loses nothing. Only our conscious ability to access it is lost. That's why hypnosis works so well to unlock things that we have "forgotten". The information we choose to make decisions on or how we choose to act on the information we take in is definately dictated by our learning which is dictated by the culture we're raised in. I agree with you wholeheartedly there.

I also agree that "The Art of Dreaming" is a pretty powerful book. He waxes a little too nostalgic for my tastes, but still, a very good treatise on how to Dream.

I don't think it is fair about your statement earlier btw, that the wind is only the wind until you open your mind to he possibility that it is the voice of god, or whatever it was...

I say it isn't fair because well, what your saying is, its only supernatural if you believe it is...even though there is a perfectly valid explanation....

But anyway, I read the art of dreaming, I view it as a cool work of fiction, but I guess others don't, anyway, my favorite part was the one in which he is told by the place on the other side of the gate that there are three kinds of beings in that place...then explained two of them, and told him the only way to find out what the third one was was to stay there.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I don't think it is fair about your statement earlier btw, that the wind is only the wind until you open your mind to he possibility that it is the voice of god, or whatever it was...

I say it isn't fair because well, what your saying is, its only supernatural if you believe it is...even though there is a perfectly valid explanation....

But anyway, I read the art of dreaming, I view it as a cool work of fiction, but I guess others don't, anyway, my favorite part was the one in which he is told by the place on the other side of the gate that there are three kinds of beings in that place...then explained two of them, and told him the only way to find out what the third one was was to stay there.

Man... I hate to be "unfair."

Hmmmm...Let me try this another way. Now, this isn't a perfect metaphor, but it comes as close as I can make it right now:

If you are on the shore of a lake and you see a large wake suddenly appear on the surface of the water without any boat or other visible cause, you wonder to yourself, "Huh...I wonder how that happened?" So you decide to do a scientific investigation. You might be able to study hydrofluidics and understand the mechanics behind how the water moves in relation to itself and why ripples move in diminishing circles with regards to energy dispersement. You could spend a huge amount of time getting to every conceiveable detail, down to a subatomic level, of the mechanics behind wave action. And you could understand that some "force" pushed the water in such a way that it caused it to ripple.

But in the end, after you've analyzed this information, uncovered numerous mysteries of the physical world, you still haven't found the big ass fish that was swimming just under the surface pushing the water around it's body.

The relationship of the Spiritual World to the Physical World is the same as the fish to the wake. What we experience is simply the manifestation/reflection of that which occurs/exists in the Spiritual Realm.

Until we can accept that basic idea, then all we will ever see is the result, not necessarily the cause. Or to put it another way, all we see is the "how" not the "why".

That is what I mean when I say you must have belief before you can experience. You have to make a mental shift from thinking "how" to asking "why".

And I have to agree that Castaneda's description of The Inorganic Beings and their realm is hard to swallow - though I stop short of calling it fiction, only because I've experienced enough of what he writes about personally, to not discount seemingly fantastical ideas.

I just liked how the beings on the other side were like...manipulative jerks hehe. It has been a long time since I have read it though...I think that their cleverness was supposed to be due to the fact that they live longer than organic people right? But...they still die I think...I don't remember that much about it.