Thread: Psychic-y stuff

Afaik, deja vu can't be scientifically explained yet, that's just a speculation what you said there. Who knows, maybe you just had a dream where you had a false awakening, lived your day like you would normally, and then forget about that dream. Then you woke up for real, lived your day like would normally. And somewhere, along the day, when the dream memory pops up because you are in a similar setting, you might experience this as a deja-vu. I think this explanation is way more logical than "a glitch in the brains" which doesn't explain anything at all really.

I think deja vu has more likely explanations rooted in how we lay down our short term and long term memory.

In light of Jamais vu, not feeling like you've known/done something you have done or known before, I think it is clear that our short term and long term memory can be faulty and create odd experiences. Certainly Jamais vu has nothing to do with not dreaming something before.

Considering we know Jamais vu to be a memory fault, I don't see why dreaming about something before is more logically likely to be the cause of deja vu. Certainly people can dream of things before they happen but since memory interplay can cause odd things and certain pharmaceutical drugs increase deja vu occurrence I think dreams aren't the more logical explanation to turn to.

Certainly the dream would have to be more than a similar setting since we don't get deja vu every time we wake up or watch a rerun on television or go to work in the morning.

Scientifically speaking, our memory is perfect, as demonstrated when under hypnosis. Access to our memory however is limited, as demonstrated when you try to remember your dreams but can't, but suddenly along the day the memory pops up... it's because it's always been there and doesn't go away. Access to memory is associated to a certain state of mind. When you dream you can't access your waking memory, when you are awake, you can't access your dreaming memory. Knowing that our memory works through association (when I you see a heart, you think love), you could conclude, that the triggering of a dream memory only could happen when that dream memory is similar to the waking experience, which would explain the deja vu phenomena.

You could also explain deja vu's as a day dream you had in a flash, your subconscious predicting the situation and dreaming an outcome. But I really fail to understand how you can explain deja vu's as a mere glitch when they are so accurate? If deja vu's were a glitch, they should be random, not predicting exactly what is going to happen right? Instead of trying to explain deja vu's most people seem to be trying to explain deja vu's as a glitch. It must be a glitch. It can't possibly be that our human brain actually can predict the future! But that's exactly what happens right? Maybe there simply isn't any explanation, and our subconscious mind is simply able to predict a possible future, just like we are able to do so with our logic and reason.. for example it's not hard to predict that atleast one person is going to disagree with me

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Scientifically speaking, our memory is perfect, as demonstrated when under hypnosis. Access to our memory however is limited, as demonstrated when you try to remember your dreams but can't, but suddenly along the day the memory pops up... it's because it's always been there and doesn't go away. Access to memory is associated to a certain state of mind. When you dream you can't access your waking memory, when you are awake, you can't access your dreaming memory. Knowing that our memory works through association (when I you see a heart, you think love), you could conclude, that the triggering of a dream memory only could happen when that dream memory is similar to the waking experience, which would explain the deja vu phenomena.

First of all this is wrong. When you are sleeping you can most certainly access your "waking' memory. You can even remember what day it is in the real world. Memory is not "perfect" and Hypnosis merely enhances memory and not even to a large degree. Furthermore hypnosis has been known to produce false or distorted memories. Memory of dreams is similar to short term memory of anything else in the world.

I'm assuming you base this assumption on the fact that some people can "remember" some things from their past that is very long ago with things like hypnosis and electrical stimuli. But the thing is it only demonstrates that some things are kept as long term memory. It doesn't demonstrate that everything is kept as long term memory.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You could also explain deja vu's as a day dream you had in a flash, your subconscious predicting the situation and dreaming an outcome. But I really fail to understand how you can explain deja vu's as a mere glitch when they are so accurate? If deja vu's were a glitch, they should be random, not predicting exactly what is going to happen right? Instead of trying to explain deja vu's most people seem to be trying to explain deja vu's as a glitch. It must be a glitch. It can't possibly be that our human brain actually can predict the future! But that's exactly what happens right? Maybe there simply isn't any explanation, and our subconscious mind is simply able to predict a possible future, just like we are able to do so with our logic and reason.. for example it's not hard to predict that atleast one person is going to disagree with me

What do you mean deja vu is accurate?

Deja vu is the opposite of accurate. It is an extremely vague feeling of "I feel like I've done this before." There are no real predictions made by deja vu but rather people fooled into thinking they have made a prediction. For example someone might say "oh I had deja vu I knew you were going to say that" but yet in the same scenario if they had been pressed to they wouldn't have been able to finish the sentence.

We already know memory has its faults and can create odd experiences. Why say that a thing which obviously has its root in memory because it revolves around "remembering" something is anything more than an odd experience caused by how we process this memory?

As I said, certainly you can have a dream of a thing happening before it happens, but this occurrence would be extremely rare, and certainly there are normal things that happen in your day to day life from the past that are far more similar to what is happening than what was in your dream of which things are constantly dissimilar to reality.

In other words, why not leave it at memory problems and nix the idea that the only memories deja vu deal with are dream memories?

Maybe for you, deja vu is a very vague feeling, for me its a very clear memory and even to the point I can sometimes say the words before the other person can. That's why it seems to me that it's not just a glitch. And that thing about perfect memory is not an assumption. You can see this in the case were people are born handicapped, giving them unlimited access to their memory. Sure, you could reason that these handicapped people suddenly leaped ahead 100000 years in evolution and therefore have superior memory than the average human, or you could reason that normal human beings already have a perfect memory, but for evolutionary purposes our brains limits access.

EDIT: Screw it, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. It is just more of this person who makes an unsubstantiated claim vs. someone wanting them to prove it. Believe what you like Chayba, I don't care if you prove it to me or not anymore.

Errr.... I was going to say I just had a deja vu today and actually said something totally off the wall that happened a few seconds later..... but uh back to psychicy stuff I guess..

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Afaik, deja vu can't be scientifically explained yet, that's just a speculation what you said there. Who knows, maybe you just had a dream where you had a false awakening, lived your day like you would normally, and then forget about that dream. Then you woke up for real, lived your day like would normally. And somewhere, along the day, when the dream memory pops up because you are in a similar setting, you might experience this as a deja-vu. I think this explanation is way more logical than "a glitch in the brains" which doesn't explain anything at all really.

It's not a "glitch", it's just a simple out-of-balance mixture of Glycine (a neuro inhibitor) and Cholecystokinin (a response modulator).

There was a study done in the early 80's by a group of Neurologists at St. Louis University Hospital just breaking into the Brain Mapping field that was able to reproduce Deja Vu feelings in individuals with intracranial EEG electrodes by disrupting the flow of those particular chemicals.

It was quite by accident as the Neurologists were actually working on Epilepsy patients and trying to control seizure disorders.

I know this because I was a part of the study.

I read about that study more than once. I've been telling people for a long time that deja vu and psychic arent together.

Originally Posted by saxonharp

It's not a "glitch", it's just a simple out-of-balance mixture of Glycine (a neuro inhibitor) and Cholecystokinin (a response modulator).

But what causes the out-of-balance mixture? You just gave deja vu a chemical name, you didn't explain anything at all. It's like someone would ask, how do you explain love? And you would answer, oh it's a simple matter of chemical out-of-balance of dopamine. Sorry, but that's not an explanation, it's only giving it a different name.

I dont see what would make somebody think deja vu means your psychic. Natural psychics btw, to my knowledge, experience deja vu anymore than a normal person.

I don't see how deja vu means you're psychic either Everyone is psychic. Some people just are able to make their psychic abilities conscious, just like we make our dreaming abilities conscious. Everyone dreams, but only a very few remember their dreams, and even less are in control of their dreams. I think it's the same with psychics..

i think deja vu gets mixed up with psychic stuff with me because i have pre-cog. dreams and just before i realize that i had a dream about what is about to,or is happening, i get deja vu then remember my dream but other times its just normal deja vu.this is just me though so i have really have no idea why other people get it mixed up. i know extremely unhelpful as always.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

But what causes the out-of-balance mixture? You just gave deja vu a chemical name, you didn't explain anything at all. It's like someone would ask, how do you explain love? And you would answer, oh it's a simple matter of chemical out-of-balance of dopamine. Sorry, but that's not an explanation, it's only giving it a different name.

Ok. I think I follow you. Let me see if I understand...

Using this argument, you could then posit the following: Bacteria and Viruses don't make us sick. They are simply the material manifestations of "other wordly" causes such as Soul Loss, Hexes, Curses, Spiritual Attack, etc.

Is this accurate?

Originally Posted by saxonharp

Ok. I think I follow you. Let me see if I understand...

Using this argument, you could then posit the following: Bacteria and Viruses don't make us sick. They are simply the material manifestations of "other wordly" causes such as Soul Loss, Hexes, Curses, Spiritual Attack, etc.

Is this accurate?

No I don't think you understand. What I mean is the following; It would be like explaining the cause of sickness as "a chemcial out-of-balance" which happens when sick. That's a true explanation, but it is not a helpful explanation. A better explanation would be that it is your body getting red of the unwanted bacteria s what is making you feel sick.

You reason, because deja vu always happens together with a chemical out-of-balance, that it is this chemical out-of-blance that is the cause for deja vu. Love does also always happen together with a chemical out-of-balance, following your line of reasoning, the cause of love is a chemical out-of-balance. That would mean that before you can fall in love, you would first have to have this random chemical out-of-balance occur, and only then, when there's a girl around, you can fall in love with her. I hope you see, if you apply your reasoning to more known phenomena, that it is obviously flawed.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Deja Vu and Psychic visions are too different things.

Psychic visions are more clear, you usually have some detail... A Deja Vu would be a vague feeling.

So the deja vu's people have which were not a vague but accurate feeling and which are frequently reported, are actually psychic visions on the spot? Why wouldn't you be able to explain the deja vu's which are a vague feeling as a vague psychic vision? What would be the difference here?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

So the deja vu's people have which were not a vague but accurate feeling and which are frequently reported, are actually psychic visions on the spot? Why wouldn't you be able to explain the deja vu's which are a vague feeling as a vague psychic vision? What would be the difference here?

That's the problem it's a case by case basis. You'd have to judge it when it happens. If you are having a true psychic recognition you should be very aware of whats going on, actually able to picture the scenario in your head or know the words being spoken or specific details. Deja vu is a kind of passing feeling where you walk into a room or into a place and get a sense of being here before.. It's less detailed.

Psychic visions aren't always super-detailed but you can really remember something about it, not just the feeling that it happened before..

Hard to explain...

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

No I don't think you understand. What I mean is the following; It would be like explaining the cause of sickness as "a chemcial out-of-balance" which happens when sick. That's a true explanation, but it is not a helpful explanation. A better explanation would be that it is your body getting red of the unwanted bacteria s what is making you feel sick.

You reason, because deja vu always happens together with a chemical out-of-balance, that it is this chemical out-of-blance that is the cause for deja vu. Love does also always happen together with a chemical out-of-balance, following your line of reasoning, the cause of love is a chemical out-of-balance. That would mean that before you can fall in love, you would first have to have this random chemical out-of-balance occur, and only then, when there's a girl around, you can fall in love with her. I hope you see, if you apply your reasoning to more known phenomena, that it is obviously flawed.

So our contention lies in cause and effect? I claim one experiences feelings of Deja Vu because of a chemical imbalance in the brain. You claim that the chemical imbalance is caused by the feeling of Deja Vu?