Thread: Do you believe in mind powers?

Originally posted by Jwest777
Kaniaz. When I said that human beings only use about 10% of their brains. I was being conversative. That is an actual figure from doctors and professors who study the brain.

no, no it is not. Do everyone a favor and educate yourself.

I think Gameover or someone else, maybe on this thread, I don't feel like looking back, said that sometimes Radio signals or something are able to move objects. That could be a cause for Telekenisis.

By the way, we use all of our brains. We don't use more that 10% of it at one time though. I don't think that that's the explination, I think it's different than that.

I said nothig about radio signals. Someone else

I saw a thing on PBS that showed an insane guy. The guy was nuts. Simple as that. [/b]

Exactly my point. You dont understand him, so you say hes insane. Do you understand his actions? The only time that word insane gets used is when someone doesnt understand someone elses actions. Thats it.

Originally posted by dreamwalker007
We don't use more that 10% of it at one time though.

also completely false

I was kidding. Well anyway the mind is not a scientificly proven thing. it's all in our head's. Only your brain is up there. But if there is a mind post a pic of one.

dream-scape and kaniaz. The two of you seem so sure of yourselves. You cannot simply say "no, no it is not" or " Wrong" without something to back it up. But seeing as to how close minded the two of you may be, and if you really had any "valid" evidence to back up something which I have been studying for "years", please back up your statements.

I simply stated a summary of something to avoid all the details so I wouldn't take up so much space. I thought this was a poll? A place to express your views. Instead all I get from the two of you is trying to smack down everyone else's view and prove them to be wrong. Hmm.. prehaps maybe you have been in your dreams too long and lost touch with reality. But it doesn't matter. I'm too old to be playing these games. Everyone is entitled their own opinion, I suppose. And that's all I will say on that matter.

From the book " The Einstein Factor" by Win Wenger, Ph.D. and Richard Poe. Pg. 5-6 "The mathematician John Von Neumann once calculated that the human brain can store up to 280 quintillion - that's 280,000,000,000,000,000,000 - bits of memory. Many call that a conservative figure." Just a quote on how vast the human mind really is.

Someone has taken most of your brain away and you probably didn't even know it. Well, not taken your brain away, exactly, but decided that you don't use it. It's the old myth heard time and again about how people use only ten percent of their brains. While for the people who repeat that myth, it's probably true, the rest of us happily use all of our brains.

The Myth and the Media
That tired Ten-Percent claim pops up all the time. Last year, national magazine ads for U.S. Satellite Broadcasting showed a drawing of a brain. Under it was the caption, \"You only use 11 percent of its potential.\" Well, they're a little closer than the ten-percent figure, but still off by about 89 percent. In July 1998, ABC television ran promotional spots for \"The Secret Lives of Men,\" one of their offerings for the fall season's lineup. The spot featured a full-screen blurb that read, \"Men only use ten percent of their brains.\"

One reason this myth has endured is that it has been adopted by psychics and other paranormal pushers to explain psychic powers. On more than one occasion I've heard psychics tell their audiences, \"We only use ten percent of our minds. If scientists don't know what we do with the other ninety percent, it must be used for psychic powers!\" In Reason To Believe: A Practical Guide to Psychic Phenomena, author Michael Clark mentions a man named Craig Karges. Karges charges a lot of money for his \"Intuitive Edge\" program, designed to develop natural psychic abilities. Clark quotes Karges as saying: \"We normally use only 10 to 20 percent of our minds. Think how different your life would be if you could utilize that other 80 to 90 percent known as the subconscious mind\" (Clark 1997, 56).

This was also the reason that Caroline Myss gave for her alleged intuitive powers on a segment of \"Eye to Eye with Bryant Gumbel,\" which aired in July of 1998. Myss, who has written books on unleashing \"intuitive powers,\" said that everyone has intuitive gifts, and lamented that we use so little of the mind's potential. To make matters worse, just the week before, on the very same program, correct information was presented about the myth. In a bumper spot between the program and commercials, a quick quiz flashed onscreen: What percentage of the brain is used? The multiple-choice answers ranged from 10 percent to 100 percent. The correct answer appeared, which I was glad to see. But if the producers knew that what one of their interviewees said is clearly and demonstrably inaccurate, why did they let it air? Does the right brain not know what the left brain is doing? Perhaps the Myss interview was a repeat, in which case the producers presumably checked her facts after it aired and felt some responsibility to correct the error in the following week's broadcast. Or possibly the broadcasts aired in sequence and the producers simply did not care and broadcast Myss and her misinformation anyway.

Even Uri Geller, who has made a career out of trying to convince people he can bend metal with his mind, trots out this little gem. This claim appears in his book Uri Geller's Mind-Power Book in the introduction: \"Our minds are capable of remarkable, incredible feats, yet we don't use them to their full capacity. In fact, most of us only use about 10 per cent of our brains, if that. The other 90 per cent is full of untapped potential and undiscovered abilities, which means our minds are only operating in a very limited way instead of at full stretch. I believe that we once had full power over our minds. We had to, in order to survive, but as our world has become more sophisticated and complex we have forgotten many of the abilities we once had\" (emphasis in original).

Evidence Against the Ten-Percent Myth
The argument that psychic powers come from the unused majority of the brain is based on the logical fallacy of the argument from ignorance. In this fallacy, lack of proof for a position (or simply lack of information) is used to try to support a particular claim. Even if it were true that the vast majority of the human mind is unused (which it clearly is not), that fact in no way implies that any extra capacity could somehow give people paranormal powers. This fallacy pops up all the time in paranormal claims, and is especially prevalent among UFO proponents. For example: Two people see a strange light in the sky. The first, a UFO believer, says, \"See there! Can you explain that?\" The skeptic replies that no, he can't. The UFO believer is gleeful. \"Ha! You don't know what it is, so it must be aliens!\" he says, arguing from ignorance.

What follows are two of the reasons that the Ten-Percent story is suspect. (For a much more thorough and detailed analysis of the subject, see Barry Beyerstein's chapter in the new book Mind Myths: Exploring Everyday Mysteries of the Mind [1999].)

1. Brain imaging research techniques such as PET scans (positron emission tomography) and fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) clearly show that the vast majority of the brain does not lie fallow. Indeed, although certain minor functions may use only a small part of the brain at one time, any sufficiently complex set of activities or thought patterns will indeed use many parts of the brain. Just as people don't use all of their muscle groups at one time, they also don't use all of their brain at once. For any given activity, such as eating, watching television, making love, or reading, you may use a few specific parts of your brain. Over the course of a whole day, however, just about all of the brain is used at one time or another.

2. The myth presupposes an extreme localization of functions in the brain. If the \"used\" or \"necessary\" parts of the brain were scattered all around the organ, that would imply that much of the brain is in fact necessary. But the myth implies that the \"used\" part of the brain is a discrete area, and the \"unused\" part is like an appendix or tonsil, taking up space but essentially unnecessary. But if all those parts of the brain are unused, removal or damage to the \"unused\" part of the brain should be minor or unnoticed. Yet people who have suffered head trauma, a stroke, or other brain injury are frequently severely impaired. Have you ever heard a doctor say, \". . . But luckily when that bullet entered his skull, it only damaged the 90 percent of his brain he didn't use\"? Of course not.

Variants of the Ten-Percent Myth
The myth is not simply a static, misunderstood factoid. It has several forms, and this adaptability gives it a shelf life longer than lacquered Spam. In the basic form, the myth claims that years ago a scientist discovered that we indeed did use only ten percent of our brains. Another variant is that only ten percent of the brain had been mapped, and this in turn became misunderstood as ten percent used. A third variant was described earlier by Craig Karges. This view is that the brain is somehow divided neatly into two parts: the conscious mind which is used ten to twenty percent of the time (presumably at capacity); and the subconscious mind, where the remaining eighty to ninety percent of the brain is unused. This description betrays a profound misunderstanding of brain function research.

Part of the reason for the long life of the myth is that if one variant can be proven incorrect, the person who held the belief can simply shift the reason for his belief to another basis, while the belief itself stays intact. So, for example, if a person is shown that PET scans depict activity throughout the entire brain, he can still claim that, well, the ninety percent figure really referred to the subconscious mind, and therefore the Ten-Percent figure is still basically correct.

Regardless of the exact version heard, the myth is spread and repeated, by both the well-meaning and the deliberately deceptive. The belief that remains, then, is what Robert J. Samuelson termed a \"psycho-fact, [a] belief that, though not supported by hard evidence, is taken as real because its constant repetition changes the way we experience life.\" People who don't know any better will repeat it over and over, until, like the admonition against swimming right after you eat, the claim is widely believed. (\"Triumph of the Psycho-Fact,\" Newsweek, May 9, 1994.)

The origins of the myth are not at all clear. Beyerstein, of the Brain Behaviour Laboratory at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, has traced it back to at least the early part of the century. A recent column in New Scientist magazine also suggested various roots, including Albert Einstein and Dale Carnegie (Brain Drain 1999). It likely has a number of sources, principally misunderstood or misinterpreted legitimate scientific findings as well as self-help gurus.

The most powerful lure of the myth is probably the idea that we might develop psychic abilities, or at least gain a leg up on the competition by improving our memory or concentration. All this is available for the asking, the ads say, if we just tapped into our most incredible of organs, the brain.

It is past time to put this myth to rest, although if it has survived at least a century so far, it will surely live on into the new millennium. Perhaps the best way to combat this chestnut is to reply to the speaker, when the myth is mentioned, \"Oh? What part don't you use?\"[/b]

Ok there is just some of the evidence against the 10% myth. Google "10% brain myth" for alot more if you like.

Now, where is your evidence? (although the mere fact you really believe you only use 10% of your brain might be evidence enough, in your case)... and if you believe it so much, then you won't mind a small field test whereby I'll remove the 90% of your brain that you don't use. I'm sure you'll get by just fine without it.

Originally posted by Jwest777
dream-scape and kaniaz. The two of you seem so sure of yourselves. You cannot simply say \"no, no it is not\" or \" Wrong\" without something to back it up. But seeing as to how close minded the two of you may be, and if you really had any \"valid\" evidence to back up something which I have been studying for \"years\", please back up your statements.

dream-scape has just covered that for me. (If you paid attention, I've posted the same article here recently). Please, I'd like your next argument here. You're running out thick and fast of them, and I think I can say I have you cornered as far as this argument goes (maybe I'm on a roll, second time in a month I've managed that, heh). Where's O'nus (medical bloke who comes to this forum) when you need him. >:|

Originally posted by Jwest777
That is an actual figure from doctors and professors who study the brain.

You will also find that:

A) It's not a \"breakthrough\". The (wrong) fact has been around for, according to the NEJS,

[...] it is about 100 years old.[/b]

B) I'd like these apparent doctors and professors names, please, and books or reliable websites with them saying it, you know, anything that could prove this to me.

C) As for doctors and professors actually saying it, I think it's rather odd how adverts seem to pop up in several articles saying that the "fact" could of originated from their little adverts.



Sorry they're so small, best I could get you.



That one reads:


[Picture of the brain]
You only use 11% of its potential.

[Picture of television]
Ditto.

[Bottom]
Now there's a way to get the most of both.

And I'm concretely sure on the 10% Brain myth simply being, well, a myth.

(Double post, but I'm sure you will live)

Originally posted by dreamwalker007
I think Gameover or someone else, maybe on this thread, I don't feel like looking back, said that sometimes Radio signals or something are able to move objects. That could be a cause for Telekenisis.

Radio Signals do indeed cause objects to move. I can't find the article now, but there was some man who studied the "Poltergeist" things. He went to one of the apparently haunted houses, where cups smashed against walls on their own accord, footsteps emitted from nowhere, and the occupiers always had chronic headaches.

He discovered there was an abnormal level of radio...radiation? Or radio waves, I guess you could say, in the house. Then he gave lots of scientific reasons as to everything that happened there. I can't find the article now, but I believe it was called "The Ghost Machine" or something.

Oh, and he mentioned "The Ghost Machine". Somebody has invented a machine that does some nifty stuff, probably with radio waves, then inside the closed space, things smash or fly about of their own accord. I'd like to be much more specific here but it seems that I can't find the damn article.

Originally posted by gameover

It is true, there is a thin line between genius and insanity. But let's work hard not to confuse the two.

Insanity doesnt exist the way people think. Insanity is a word people use to describe something they don't understand. I'm sure everyone of us has at one time(at least) questioned our own sanity. Once you lose your fear of sanity, you can become the genius you always suspected you might be.[/b]

I agree.
Not all understands that it isn't bad to think different than the majority.
Because we don't understand them, doesn't mean they is wrong.

In fact, many famous people have been strange, and had problems with things like communicating.
But the talent they have, has give them succes, so they can be very logic and rational even if we don't understand them.

And keep up the good work gameover, I agree with you.
You have not a plain understanding of different people, but a very good and insightful understanding.

If the majority have had the same understanding as you, gameover, it would propably have been much less bullying of persons people do not understand.

Ok. Kaniaz and dreamscape. As much as I would hate to admit, you got me there. The 10% thing from my book was more referring to your memory capacity and how much you can retain. I did read those websites. Never seen those before. I also found that people who claim to use telepathy, don't actually use it at all. They are actually very gifted in reading a person's body language so well, that they can tell in some way what they are thinking or looking at. That is the kind of mind power that I'm interested in. But I will leave that 10% myth here. I only care for pure knowledge and the pursuit of it thereof. Even if I may be proven wrong at times...

As for the 10 % use of the brain, that's a theory very many believe in.
But that doesn't mean the theory is right.

Originally posted by Jwest777
I also found that people who claim to use telepathy, don't actually use it at all. They are actually very gifted in reading a person's body language so well, that they can tell in some way what they are thinking or looking at.

People may have the ability to see what feelings a person has, but I don't think anyone is able to read so much from the body language that they know exactly what a person thinks.
Some people I am familiar with, has in fact eduacation in psychology, but they are not able to describe what thoughts who is in my mind.
(I have tested them.)

It may be possible to have a very good empathy, but I think 'female thinking' is just as important as education in situations like that.
(Females usually has a better ability to see the feelings to a person than males, I think it has to do with a more abstract thinking who isn't logical.)

Telepathy works very much like other PSI abilities. It's not always constant. It's a very gifted individual indeed who can master such abilities. I have telepathic experiences all the time though I couldn't tell you what triggers them. And some of it may indeed stem from reading the person's body language, but I've had it happen to me quite a few times when my back was to the person. Sometimes peoples thoughts come through very loudly. Thinking back on it, I'd have to say that the majority of the experiences where I heard another's thoughts loud and clear were when they were emotionally charged. Either very angry, sad, sarcastic, etc....Thoughts do produce energy so I guess it's not totally unimaginable that a highly emotionally charged thought could be picked up by a person with certain sensitivities and who is in close proximity. I don't think I can recall having picked up on someone's thoughts over distance. Well aside from the "I was just thinking about calling you", thing, but I wouldn't count that.

Originally posted by Jwest777
Ok. Kaniaz and dreamscape. As much as I would hate to admit, you got me there. The 10% thing from my book was more referring to your memory capacity and how much you can retain.

Its an honest mistake, and I feel that everyone is being way too harsh and egocentric in this thread.
Lots of supposedly 'good sources' talk of the myth as true, so its real easy to fall for it.
I know I used to believe it myself, until I got thinking about it one day (I'm interested in AI and brain functions)

If you're interested in hearing more of it : http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?mai...n=fa/brain-myth

As to the memory capacity, its not so simple to calculate that, because the brain is amazing when it comes to rewiring and reusing known neural pathways.
Eg. if you become brain damaged, the damaged part can be 'rewired' somewhere else, without removing existing pathways.
So what I'm saying is that memory works the same way, and its associative, and reusing.

In example... if you learn English, and it takes, say, 20 GB (arguments sake) of knowledge. And then you learn Latin, which has eg. 22 GB of knowledge. Your brain doesn't end up with 42GB's used... it reuses the common concepts in English for its understanding of Latin, resulting in massive reuse of associations and pathways.

Thats part of what makes our brain so interesting and impressive

Originally posted by Placebo
Thats part of what makes our brain so interesting and impressive

Sort of 3 dimensional processing instead of 2 dimensional processing.

I fail to see the connection between our brain and how it works and the supposed ability of said brain to somehow manipulate other objects, other then I think some people like to think they're special.

Originally posted by CT
I fail to see the connection between our brain and how it works and the supposed ability of said brain to somehow manipulate other objects

Yeah, usually evolution takes care of redundant things like that. In fact, it does.

Ok. I've stopped thinking of ways to prove tk. Skeptics~I doubt the lot of you have ever tried anything to do with "psi" or "ki". I understand what it is like to be a skeptic, and I understand stuff like this can be hard to believe, but, take a risk and try some of techs all over this forum and internet. Believe what you wish, but don't try to prove people wrong when you have never given TK a healthy shot at it. Many "believers", stop getting mad at the skeptics. I do admit I have lost my temper a couple of times to, and I'm sorry. But, wy don't we all be open minded and accept peoples opinions on different subjects. We are all free to express our beliefs, arn't we?

What is it called when you can alter the fabric of reality according to your expectations? Whatever that is, I can do that, to a limited degree, though over the course of time it is increasing, at an alarming rate.

Originally posted by Anelior
What is it called when you can alter the fabric of reality according to your expectations?

er, impossible?! I'd defintely like a video of this.

I can't help but wonder what draws you to the Beyond Dreaming section. Don't get me wrong you have just as much right to share an opinion as the next person. But you are just plain rude about it. If you haven't noticed the poll you are in the minority here, yet you continue to come to this section and pick arguements with people who are more open to such possibilities. Don't say that you don't, because you've baited me two or three times until I responded. I wonder is it coincidence that you chose Lucid God or is your ego really that out of control?? Obviously you feel the need to be "right", and the need to "bait" others who don't share you opinion instead of simply saying "I don't agree." That says more about your character than you can imagine. You've always played the skeptic, which is fine, but lately (and just before the forum shut down) you have become obnoxious about your point of view and have encouraged others to do the same. I'm not going to verbally attack someone who says they are a skeptic or a nonbeliever, everyone is entitled to think whatever, but you obviously think it's cute and funny to behave in such a beligerent and offending manner. I used to find this forum enjoyable because of it's diversity, but these days you can't find a post in the Beyond Dreaming section where you haven't blasted, made fun of, or out right laughted someone out of their post. I've been patient with you, and I've blown you off, but when I see the effect you are having on some of the others, that's when I have to say something. It's not just you, I've seen others make fun of people and basically insinuate that because their spelling was bad, that their points were invalid. How would you like to be treated thus? Did no-one ever teach you manners? You should be ashamed of your behavior. If this section bothers you so much that you feel you need to be short and rude in response than why visit it?

Originally posted by reikigirl
I can't help but wonder what draws you to the Beyond Dreaming section. Don't get me wrong you have just as much right to share an opinion as the next person. But you are just plain rude about it. If you haven't noticed the poll you are in the minority here, yet you continue to come to this section and pick arguements with people who are more open to such possibilities. Don't say that you don't, because you've baited me two or three times until I responded. I wonder is it coincidence that you chose Lucid God or is your ego really that out of control?? Obviously you feel the need to be \"right\", and the need to \"bait\" others who don't share you opinion instead of simply saying \"I don't agree.\" That says more about your character than you can imagine. You've always played the skeptic, which is fine, but lately (and just before the forum shut down) you have become obnoxious about your point of view and have encouraged others to do the same. I'm not going to verbally attack someone who says they are a skeptic or a nonbeliever, everyone is entitled to think whatever, but you obviously think it's cute and funny to behave in such a beligerent and offending manner. I used to find this forum enjoyable because of it's diversity, but these days you can't find a post in the Beyond Dreaming section where you haven't blasted, made fun of, or out right laughted someone out of their post. I've been patient with you, and I've blown you off, but when I see the effect you are having on some of the others, that's when I have to say something. It's not just you, I've seen others make fun of people and basically insinuate that because their spelling was bad, that their points were invalid. How would you like to be treated thus? Did no-one ever teach you manners? You should be ashamed of your behavior. If this section bothers you so much that you feel you need to be short and rude in response than why visit it?

What she said ^^^^^^^^^.

You go reikigirl.

If everyone needs to see a video so badly go to psipog.net and go to the media section. But heed their thoughts about videos.

I myself know that it's real because I've done it (I wish I could change my vote now) to an extent. I know that if I would show a skeptic what I can do (I can make my pinwheel stop but not start for some reason) they would definately criticize me.

I just think that you always have to be able to think that things a possible. Where would we be if no one thought that people could fly in a big metal tin can? Where would we be if we didn't think there was any other kind of light or sound other than what we can see or hear(infared lights, ultraviolot lights, and radio waves are what I'm talking about). Really, if you think about it, it doesn't sound so far fetch when you look back at history.

People never knew that things could move on their own, but look, we have cars, boats, airplanes ect. All moving on a force that was previously unknown to us. Magnets move things without touching them too, but you know as well as I do that they exist. Same with gravity.

Just try to look at things with an open mind, some say that they think logically because they don't believe in it, but look at the logic I just laid at your feet. History shows us how much we're wrong about things.

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