Thread: No, no, no!

Originally posted by ThomasELEN+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ThomasELEN)</div>

First off, photons only deal with visible light.

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You are so wrong I almost can't believe it. Visible light is 'Visible' light only because humans can only sense that part of the EM spectrum. Bats and other animals can sense other parts of the EM spectrum. Before you accuse my of being wrong, PLEASE CAN YOU BRUSH UP ON BASIC PHYSICS. Photons are carriers of all electromagnetic quanta. This includes visible light, IR, UV, microwaves. radio waves, cosmic rays, gamma rays... you name it.

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Giving off heat isn't EM waves in work at all. Detecting someone by infrared is detecting the heat they give off...no information about the EM waves they're giving off is detected at all by infra-red.

WRONG AGAIN! How the hell do you think a helicopter can sense the temperature of a man hundreads of feet below. They can't. They sense the infrared ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES emitted from the atoms of his body. Temperature is a measure of the movement of atoms relative to density. It is NOT infrared, which is a common trap you just fell into.

Can I please recommend you go o the library and read up on physics? 'Cos at the moment, you don't really have the authority to preach it.

Identity X wrote

Can I please recommend you go o the library and read up on physics? 'Cos at the moment, you don't really have the authority to preach it.[/b]

Listen up. I am a grad student in Electrical Engineering. It's not me who needs to brush up on physics.

You're close-minded and primitive intelligence didn't even listen to a single word I said. This original argument was about the existance of auras. You tried to turn the tables by attacking any credibility I had.

The emission of heat is in fact NOT a form of EM waves. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I based my entire undergraduate degree on it. Something you probably will have to buy from the internet in order to have.

You're not worth any more words from a clearly higher intelligence.

If you are a grad student and have a degree in electrical engineering, you surely should have known the purpose of the photon, and it's relation to the entire EM spectrum. Sorry to have underestimated your knowledge, but it was that incorrect definition of a photon that pushed my towards it.

I'm not as old as you clearly, but I obtained full marks in an Advanced Subsidary GCE in Physics and am currently doing the Advanced GCE in it, so at least I have slightly more experience with it that the average person.

I admit that I have a problem with Ohm's law and circuit diagrams often mean nothing to me. Of all physics, it is electricity that I am the most awful at, so it is good to know that there are some people out there who have a better understanding of it than I do. But I do know the basics of electromagnetism, quantised energy levels of electrons, the potoelectric effect and suchlike. Perhaps you don't have to read up on the basic physics as I suggested since you are clearly way above that, but you did make a stupid mistake there with the visible light malarkey.

Plus, it may be foolish of me to argue with a postgraduate but I think you were, initially at least, wrong about IR as well. Infrared does have something to do with EM waves: it is EM waves (meaning in latin 'below red' which it is), and hence is carried by photons. IR is often related to heat in that a frequent result of a drop of an electron from a higher quentisation level is the release of a photon of a frequency lying within the IR range. But it is clearly seperate from temperature, IR being electromagnetic and temperature being thermodynamic. You could say that you learn about IR in Physics and temperature in Chemistry; this is certainly true in my case.

Did I ever say that the emission of heat involved EM waves? I think you will find that I did not, it is you who assumed that relation. I stated the helicopter scenario and I was correct. The sensors can be described to a person with no knowledge of the intricities of EM readiation as a camera that instead of detecting visible light detects light at lower wavelengths. Because it's all light at the end my friend, the speed of light refers not only to red, green, blue et al but also to the other forms of EM radiation.

As of stating that you are of a 'higher intelligence', that is clearly just bigotry. Did I ever call you stupid? No. I just corrected your mistakes (and did I ever quote anything besides the physics? I have no problem with your view on auras). If you are to argue that you are post-grad and I am under-grad, age (from teenage years anyhow) has no explicit correlation to intelligence as boy-geniuses Kaniaz and Techboy have proved. If you wish to state such bigotry, at least give the courtesy of corner brackets as I have done.

Hey Identity X, your reply was very respectful. I have nothing but admiration for that. I would also like to apologize on my behalf for the comments said.

I did not initially mean to disrespect you in any way. I truly believe in many phenomena, like auras, with more than just my faith. My classes have offered me a scientific perspective on many things I believe. I really just wanted to try to convey a scientific understanding of how certain uncanny phenomena is scientifically possible.

If you would like to continue this conversation, we could PM each other. I will go back over and read what you're saying with detailed attention and try to see things from your point of view. Maybe we can help clear up some things for both of us, then we might be on to something.

Imagine the possiblities if things like auras could be experimentally proven and the entire science world accepts it. I know it's a long shot, but it would be cool to hear the views of some of the very skeptical scientists. I also know you didn't initially believe in auras, so I'm not gonna try to change your view.

Anyways, I'll go back over your words and I'll probably get back to you. Take it easy and have a nice day. Peace.

I supposed I used the capital letters a bit too much on my part. Fom now on, caps lock is firmly off.

Why are people who are sceptical and do believe in things as easily always called 'close-minded'? I mean, I am more then happy to accept these wonderfull powers, if there was any reliable proof that would convince me.

I've stopped getting mad at skeptics. I understand how its like not to know if this stuff is true. My best advice is to find out for yourself, if you can't suceed, you can go back to being skeptic, but if you do suceed, your life could take a big turn, and you may never go back to the "normal" lifestyle we all seem to live.

Originally posted by CT
Why are people who are sceptical and do believe in things as easily always called 'close-minded'? I mean, I am more then happy to accept these wonderfull powers, if there was any reliable proof that would convince me.

Like someone on this board getting video of some of this stuff...I've seen videos before but when they're just random it isn't as convincing. People with these powers seem eager enough to attempt to convince the skeptics, but show no proof

Someone make a video or 2 for me and I'll shut up...Not only that but I'll help spread the word and practice the stuff myself It's intriguing, it really is, and mostly I DO think it's possible, but there's still that one little part of me that says no...

I would be happy to provide a video, when I can work my fricken camera.

Well, chop chop! Many eager minds await enlightenment

I know, I know. I'm taking to long to get this vid up, hopefully in the next week or so (hope I'm not saying that for the next month ).

I'll stick a note of this promise in my "Important" folder, so I can remind you if you forget.

Oh, and the pinwheel one isn't any good. That's been proven wrong anyway. I guess you'd have to show us something like telekinesis. Make it jump up in the air. That would be a good one.

I could rant and rave on about this for a long time but i will just say a coulple of things....

Premonition - one of my examples. Every day many years ago when i use to go to school I would ride the bus. On this bus route i would always notice this particular house. I was intensely drawn to it. I knew i would live there. 2 years later my mother had left and my father had died (both of which i was not expecting). I ended up moving in to that house. Think what you like but my belief in the 'paranormal' as people put it comes to my own experience with it.

If skeptics of the paranormal believe in any kind of god then why not also believe in the paranormal as both can not be scienctificaly explained. They both have to be felt, experienced and known in your own heart as truth.

Peace Sensi.

I do not agree with those who are calling me and similar 'sceptics' "Closed-Minded". Surely it is a paradox to call someone closed-minded as labelling someone that is an example of closed mind behaviour, if it actually exists.

Look here. I am NOT closed-minded, and I am offended by those who are accusing me of such things. I don't even believe I am a 'sceptic'. I am just trying to be indefinitive and neutral. Both science and faith can be used to explain paranormal phenonema, but neither can be used to prove them. In the end of the day, saying:

I believe that auras exist.[/b]

Is as definitive as saying:

I believe that Van Halen is the best band in the world. [/b]

Saying nothing on this topic will ever be regarded of proof, and will only ever be regarded as an argument. Therefore, someone on this forum is no more or less open-minded than the next.

It is easy to define someone to a particular faith or critical orientation just by one or two comments.

I once replied to the syllogism:

...Something cannot be created from nothing... Therefore God exists.[/b]

With:

Something can be created from nothing. If you are on a number line standing at zero, and you want to 'create' 2, but maintain a sum of zero, you can 'create' 2 and -2, hence maintaining an overall sum of zero. In context, two seperate entities, for instance two universes, can be created from nothing as long as they are opposites of eachother. [/b]

You could easily state that this is an atheist statement - an argument 'against' God. Therefore, I am an atheist. I am not; I am an Anglican. I was stating an argument that was suggesting that god cannot be proven entirely by science, but requires faith. Overall conclusion of the argument was neutral, supporting either theism and atheism, but not both.

Why do I divulge? I am just trying to argue that you can easily label someone as 'closed-minded' by misunderstanding the purpose of an argument.

And anyway, 'closed-minded' isn't a word at all. Since everybody is 'open-minded', it has no purpose.

Hey Idenity X,

If any of your post was directed at me then im sorry. I was just sharing one of my experiences with something that felt to me like a premonition.

That then got me thinking of skeptic people who the hold different beliefs that also can not be explained by science. Yes faith is the key and thats what i meant by saying it has to be felt, experienced and known in your own heart as truth.

I by no means am calling anyone narrow minded each person is intitled to their own beliefe system which is created from their own personal experiences.

For me there is no right or wrong, people are free to believe in what ever they choose to believe in and that is what makes us all different, which in my opinion is the beauty of life.

Peace Sensi.

To me, precognition, mind-reading, and other "psychic" phenomena aren't all that occult or supernatural.

The future turns into the present by means of cause and effect--actions in the present-present create the future-present.

Human beings have access to lots of information, and the capability to process that information in all sorts of strange ways.

Therefor, it's almost certain that a human being will occasionally assimilate this information into an accurate forecast of some aspect of the future. Of course, the conscious mind isn't capable of number-crunching on that scale, so when the foreknowledge pushes into consciousness, it will seem to have come out of nowhere.

It may also be possible for a human-born entity to develop the capacity to really alter reality, but the path to developing such powers would likely eliminate the motivation to use them, IMO.

Originally posted by Identity X+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Identity X)</div>

One of the limitations of human brains are that they keep themselves to themselves[/b]

Ok... see your point. But then you wrote

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I like to think we don't just cease to exist when we die.

But... doesnt this kill your first theory? if we die, then where does our mind go? If it stays with our body, then that would mean that people who are creamated actually are nonexistant.

So... please. If you are gonna make multible statements, dont let them fight each other... its like schitzo or somethin...

just try to let yourself investigate and find for yourself what is real. The mind is a complex thing, and there is no person that fully understands it.

The only thing i think is bullshit is the crystals though... i think they only work for LDing through suggestion.. other then that, auras are pretty real, and you probably used to see them and forgot, then blocked it out.

I'm not completly convinced on a few things, but i will experiment. Just don't block it out if you havn't tried it or don't understand it.

pOOp,

Originally posted by Identity X+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Identity X)</div>

One of the limitations of human brains are that they keep themselves to themselves[/b]

Was referring to the living brain.

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I like to think we don't just cease to exist when we die.

Is, obviously, referring to the mind of the dead. I'd said before that I believe that the existance of the living and the existance of the dead are, in my mind, seperate.

I believe that all functions, save the core function of consciousness is governed by the brain, and not the 'soul'. Once the brain dies, it dies. The brain is living tissue, and nothing else. But I believe the 'soul', which is not physical, (I'll finish this post later)

i have only read about 4 of the replies on this topic and i am not going to sit here and read them all. i just want to say

the mind is the most powerful machine in the world. not one single person in the world knows how to use it so who knows what is possible. there may be things it can do without us even trying to do, mainly because we dont know we can or how to. whos to say that we cant share dreams, whos to say what the mind is capable of when we dont even know ourselves what our own brain is capable of never mind anyone elses.