I would probably give $1,000,000 to anyone that could convince me that God exists.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

So, do you think that you could convince me?? Please try.

[nina]

"probably" ...lol

[Mes Tarrant]

You have a million bucks?

[Taosaur]

I would probably give you deific powers if you convince me your $1 million exists.

[tnemrot]

I would probably give you deific powers if you convince me your $1 million exists. I will remove your ability to give deific powers unless you give them to me.

[guitarboy]

Oh Lord. The fact that you haven't been killed yet proves that God has mercy on your soul-and indirectly proving God exists. Fork it over, youth.

[grasshoppa]

"probably" ...lol /thread

[Unelias]

I'd use that one million for something good instead of giving it away to the next lunatic walking towards you. Insanity is said to be contagious in some cases.

[mini0991]

Evidence of God as a creator is all around us. But "God" is not the "God" of the Bible. The Bible is *not* sacred scripture. It's man's interpretation of the world surrounding him. Being that it was man's best guess on the nature of the Creator(s), some things are correct and some things fail basic tests of logic. Some parts of it can be verified by simple reason. For example, the world was almost certainly designed by something above us. There's simply too much complexity and order in the universe to suggest something we may not immediately understand. Does this mean things were just "dropped" here by God as creationists believe? Absoleutely not, simple reason and accepted science states the irrefutable fact of evolution is in our biosphere. But this doesn't mean that something higher didn't get the ball rolling by starting the universe so that everything happened to develop to where we are today. Now, the fact that there's ample evidence of design in nature doesn't validate the Bible. There are numerous things in there which defy accepted science and fail basic tests of logic. One is what I like to call the "problem of cancer." God says he loves us. God answers prayers. Person X prays to God that person Y lives through their cancer. Person Y dies. Something there doesn't add up. So we're left with God hates us, God doesn't exist, or God exists but does not interfere in affairs for various reasons. There's too many nice things to be had in life for there to be a hateful God. I already said some sort of creator or creators must exist. This leavesa us with a non-interfereing God...the deist worldview. Reject mainstream religious dogma, Google "deism," and discover the thinking man's belief.

[Taosaur]

Evidence of God as a creator is all around us. But "God" is not the "God" of the Bible. The Bible is *not* sacred scripture. It's man's interpretation of the world surrounding him. Being that it was man's best guess on the nature of the Creator(s), some things are correct and some things fail basic tests of logic. Some parts of it can be verified by simple reason. For example, the world was almost certainly designed by something above us. There's simply too much complexity and order in the universe to suggest something we may not immediately understand. Does this mean things were just "dropped" here by God as creationists believe? Absoleutely not, simple reason and accepted science states the irrefutable fact of evolution is in our biosphere. But this doesn't mean that something higher didn't get the ball rolling by starting the universe so that everything happened to develop to where we are today. Now, the fact that there's ample evidence of design in nature doesn't validate the Bible. There are numerous things in there which defy accepted science and fail basic tests of logic. One is what I like to call the "problem of cancer." God says he loves us. God answers prayers. Person X prays to God that person Y lives through their cancer. Person Y dies. Something there doesn't add up. So we're left with God hates us, God doesn't exist, or God exists but does not interfere in affairs for various reasons. There's too many nice things to be had in life for there to be a hateful God. I already said some sort of creator or creators must exist. This leavesa us with a non-interfereing God...the deist worldview. Reject mainstream religious dogma, Google "deism," and discover the thinking man's belief. Nonsense. Our evolving, organic world and cosmos is directly contrary to design. We recognize it fundamentally when we set up 'artificial' and 'natural' as opposites. The intervention of intelligence sets constructs unmistakably apart from the background of existence. Ultimately, all that exists collaborates on the present state of the universe, and no intelligence exists apart from what we do right now.

[Bonsay]

Some parts of it can be verified by simple reason. For example, the world was almost certainly designed by something above us. There's simply too much complexity and order in the universe to suggest something we may not immediately understand. ... Now, the fact that there's ample evidence of design in nature doesn't validate the Bible. Oh really? What does complex mean to you? A water molecule, a planet, a solar system, life? How do you classify something as complex without using your own subjective presuppositions. I doubt that you've seen any other "undesigned" universe beside this one to make that conclusion. And what is order? That things are the way there are? How do you get from here to "there was a creator". Where do you get the tools and information to find out whether a universe was designed or not? But this doesn't mean that something higher didn't get the ball rolling by starting the universe so that everything happened to develop to where we are today. Neither does it mean something higher did get the ball rolling. Something there doesn't add up. So we're left with God hates us, God doesn't exist, or God exists but does not interfere in affairs for various reasons. There's too many nice things to be had in life for there to be a hateful God. I already said some sort of creator or creators must exist. This leaves us with a non-interfering God...the deist worldview. Or maybe there is a hateful god who made the universe so that there is just enough good things to be had in life so you can suffer more in an eternal hell.

[Scatterbrain]

Some parts of it can be verified by simple reason. For example, the world was almost certainly designed by something above us. There's simply too much complexity and order in the universe to suggest something we may not immediately understand. That doesn't make much sense: god then, in order to be able to create the complex world, would have to be even more complex himself. It does nothing to solve the "complexity problem".

[Xedan]

Some parts of it can be verified by simple reason. For example, the world was almost certainly designed by something above us. There's simply too much complexity and order in the universe to suggest something we may not immediately understand. Does this mean things were just "dropped" here by God as creationists believe? Absoleutely not, simple reason and accepted science states the irrefutable fact of evolution is in our biosphere. But this doesn't mean that something higher didn't get the ball rolling by starting the universe so that everything happened to develop to where we are today. Now, the fact that there's ample evidence of design in nature doesn't validate the Bible. There are numerous things in there which defy accepted science and fail basic tests of logic. One is what I like to call the "problem of cancer." God says he loves us. God answers prayers. Person X prays to God that person Y lives through their cancer. Person Y dies. Reject mainstream religious dogma, Google "deism," and discover the thinking man's belief. I disagree with you there on paragraph 1 because of logic. Say you have a pair of billion sided dice and infinite time. Eventually you will have to get 987,654,321 on both. It's just logical. The same can be said about the earth and it's relatively close surroundings. The universe IS chaotic. But it got us right by the same randomness which made the chaos On paragraph two, you could have made a better case for yourself. The first page defies science and logic. Defy Science: by saying Woman came from Man. It was the reverse. Defy Logic: Why does an omnipotent being need exactly one Earth day to rest? Or any rest? Or a concept of time? But I am also deist, and I do think you made some good points. And I just wanna leave with this; Religion is a business. Don't be a shareholder.

[Kuhnada29]

So, do you think that you could convince me?? Please try. you "PROBALY" would give me a 1,000,000?! yea, fucking right. How bout you give me the money first and then I convince you

[davej]

i would probably give 1,000,000 to anyone that could prove god does not exist...

[Maria92]

i would probably give 1,000,000 to anyone that could prove god does not exist... Do I get partial credit for overwhelming evidence? 99% of science Occam's Razor The scientific method The power to reason The fact we haven't heard from the guy in over 2,000 years, and evidence from that time period is sketchy, at best. Logic Probability Theory of evolution Need more?

[davej]

How does any of that prove there isn't a God Mario? There is no absolute proof

[Maria92]

Do I get partial credit for overwhelming evidence? 99% of science Occam's Razor The scientific method The power to reason The fact we haven't heard from the guy in over 2,000 years, and evidence from that time period is sketchy, at best. Logic Probability Theory of evolution Need more? How does any of that prove there isn't a God Mario? There is no absolute proof Who said anything about completely and utterly refuting the notion of a God? I'm just citing extraordinary amounts of evidence that generally point to a strong probability in the lack of a god.

[davej]

a lot of people seem to want Christians to prove that God exists... They want 100 % proof... Well, I want Proof that he doesn't. What it comes down to is no one can prove if God does or doesn't exist. it comes down to what you want to believe. That is the wonderful thing about the great nation that I live in. We can choose to believe what we want and worship who we want freely.

[O'nus]

you can't just wake up one morning and go oh i believe in God now or whatever. If you want to believe, start your search for God. Get into a good church, study the Bible, fellowship with other Christians. You make a choice not to do this so there is the choice you make. I am assuming that you do not attend church and that you are not TRUELY searching for God. If you are please forgive me for assuming. You neglect the idea that most non-religious people are actually hoping to be proven otherwise. Myself, for example, is hoping that a religious person can actually provide good reasoning and justifications for believing in God. I would rather be proven wrong (or you proven right) so that I can know that there is a God and after-life. Perhaps it would make my life different, but I really see no reason for it. I really hope to see the religious community to set forth good sound, valid, and true arguments! Ones that do not attack others or project their own flaws on others! You know, good arguments that- i would probably give 1,000,000 to anyone that could prove god does not exist... ... Oh dave.. You have just really disappointed me. It is not the onus of the scientific community to disprove God; it is the onus of the religious to prove God. This is like saying, "Prove that I did not think of killing him" or "Disprove my imaginary friend". It is completely delusional to think that, because someone cannot disprove something, that it must be true. If that were the case, then we would all be frightened of the flying spaghetti monster and flying teapots in outer space. My own theorized cotton candy fairies are pretty frightening too. I think it is all well encapsulated in this point; - I think people who believe in God are completely insane; they cannot prove me wrong, so therefore I am right. Would you ever find that argument alone convincing? Of course not; so why are you utilizing it? ~

[Universal Mind]

You neglect the idea that most non-religious people are actually hoping to be proven otherwise. Yes! That's an important fact that I think most religious people do not realize. A major example of where religious people miss that reality is the infamous "Atheist's Nightmare" video. Those people and the people who agree with their point assume atheists believe in the nonexistence of God because we want to. They think we would be horrified to find out a supreme being exists. It is generally not the case. I would be crying and screaming with happiness if I found out I can have a great afterlife with an all powerful being who is totally good. That description doesn't seem to apply to the Christian God, but I would really like to believe in a being that does fit the description. Every atheist I know would.

[davej]

Because Onus, so many of you have utilizied it. What kind of proof are you looking for?

[O'nus]

Because Onus, so many of you have utilizied it. What kind of proof are you looking for? Where have I utilized it? And it is not up to me to prove god - stop projecting the responsibilty of proof improperly. ~

[davej]

I'm sorry Onus, should have made myself more clear, i meant in general so many have said prove their is a God, well why don't those disprove there is a God. or better yet, why can't we just agree to disagree and stop debating over the topic.

[evildoctor]

Noogah, Congrats first on posting the largest wall of text I have seen on this forum or indeed any other. I did actually read about half way down the first wall before I lost patience. I saw references to: "metaphor" - therfore no obvious contraditction here "poety" - therefore no obvious contradicition "This versus is best understood in light of versu XXXX - therefore no obvious contradiction here. All you have done is proven my point once more. That any xtian can take a verse and either interperet it DIRECTLY if this suits their purpose, or subjectively, or indeed play it down as being a metaphor or some other bull. Here though is the one where I stopped as it made me laugh the hardest : 20. God cannot lie [Heb 6:18] God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits to deceive [2 Thes 2:11 / 1 Kings 22:23 / Ezek 14:9] In this case, we need not even consider the scriptures. As "sending forth lying spirits" is not the same as actually lying yourself. WTF - are you serious!!! But, wait...... MaryAnna White notes: 1 Kings 22:21-22 Lying spirit -- Here, of course, God does not lie directly nor approve of nor sanction man's lying. One could argue that all that happens on earth is permitted by God -- He could stop it if He saw fit. He even permitted Satan to cause Job to suffer -- a much more interesting case. But that does not mean that He is the source of all such things. They just afford Him opportunities, as here, to accomplish what He is after. As they are useful to Him, He permits them to continue for a season. Like Judas. Eventually, those instruments no longer useful, all such spirits and men will be judged by being cast into the eternal lake of fire. That is neither approval nor sanction, but merely proof of God's sovereignty. --MAW LOL - sending forth lying spirits is not the same as actually lying yourself. FAIL - If I killed you this would be murder. If I sent someone else to murder you THEN THIS IS STILL MURDER. We can repeat this example with lying, thievery, anything you like. As to "Mary Anne notes...." - all she is mearly repeating the age old xtian get out clause that "the sky fairy moves in mysterious ways" - oh and "ours is not to wonder why". Bleah! "That is neither approval nor sanction, but merely proof of God's sovereignty" - yeah right! As many of us have said over and over - this means the "god of love" (who mutated from naughty to nice between the old and new testaments apparently) - can do what ever he likes including bad stuff if it suits his purpose, but of course all in the name of love, mercy and forgiveness. (loud sound of evildoctor farting irreverently)