Thread: ImJB's LDing workbook

Current state of play:

After about 2 weeks of pretty determined practise I am recalling 2-3 dreams a night. Recalling and recording my dreams has been my focus. Having been only recalling 1-2 dreams a week this progress is very encouraging for me.

The mantra "I always wake and remember my dreams" has been very effective. I find that I am typically waking 2-3 times a night and in most cases recalling my last dream. This is also new for me. The length of the dreams is variable, not all of these are extremely long or vivid, but I am definitely seeing more detail and variety emerge.

In the last week I am recalling detail such as conversations and interesting situations (like using my mobile phone and talking to people on it). Whilst these are kind of unremarkable to an experienced dreamer these sorts of details were absent for the 1-2 dreams I was remembering each week only a month or so ago.

As mentioned I have been hesitant to focus too principally on the goal of being lucid as I really felt like my dream recall needed to improve - baby steps you know? Seeing results on the dream recall has been really encouraging. Secondly, I felt that the vividness and clarity of my dreams was something I'd like to improve. As such for the last few days I have bee adding to my main mantra for it to become "my dreams are vivid and clear, I always wake and remember my dreams". Longer than some I can see but it covers all bases for me. I am putting it in the appropriate 'tense'?

For the teachers out their I would really like your thoughts on how I should approach the transition for focusing on dream recall to lucidity?

At the moment I am not seeing myself RC in dreams despite me doing these through the day (maybe 10-15 times per day). I'm putting that down to my focus on dream recall. What's more back in the day it did take me a month or two to get to the point of LDing those two times. I'm not putting pressure on myself though, if I want to do this right I know patience is key.

That's it for now, I'll report back in a few days.
cool!
Jb

Events of the night:

Go to sleep at 11pm, wake up at 12.45pm. I know I've just been dreaming I can feel it. But just can't drag any memory of the dream. Hard to accept as my dream recall had been great.

Anyone got a neat trick that works those times your lying in bed and it just won't come out?
Could it have anything to do with it being the first REM cycle of my night?

*****

Stayed up for 30 mins (logged on above to trying space out for a WBTB attempt) took me a long time to get to sleep, maybe due to to lights from my ipad typing the above? So asleep about around 1.45pm.

****

Awake again at 3.30am after my (unsuccessful I know now WBTB attempt). Wow I'm mechanical waking up after my REM at the moment. I remember a looooong dream maybe the longest ever for me. So long I need to tape record it rather than type so I don't forget. This is a first for me, so much conversation and flow on that I was concerned it'd take too long to type, a job for today now.

No lucidity though yet, not even an RC during the dream or thought to. Did well to lay still on waking - getting better at that. This dream was hard to map out backwards, a 'loose but there' narrative link between many varied scenes.

When I tried my WBTB Going into it I was using the mantra "next time I'm dreaming I will remember I'm dreaming". I will now try another WBTB but use a slightly different mantra. "In my next dream I will question reality" instead.

My improved dream recall is great...hrmm why aren't i RC in dreams. To be continued, hopefully with a lucid before morning! Sleep around 4am

*****

Another attempt at a WBTB with no success but woke up after another dream at 5.30am. Tried WBTB AGAIN but woke at 9am with more dream recollection but no lucid.

*****

Never recalled so many dreams in one night (5-6) and I am actually surprised how routinely I am waking up after most/all (my REM cycles?)

Welcome imJB (or perhaps just JB?)!

As mentioned I have been hesitant to focus too principally on the goal of being lucid as I really felt like my dream recall needed to improve - baby steps you know?

Exactly, this is what I recommend. Look at the long term goals and find a way to keep your practices going no matter how small the steps are.

Seeing results on the dream recall has been really encouraging. Secondly, I felt that the vividness and clarity of my dreams was something I'd like to improve. As such for the last few days I have bee adding to my main mantra for it to become "my dreams are vivid and clear, I always wake and remember my dreams". Longer than some I can see but it covers all bases for me. I am putting it in the appropriate 'tense'?

Yes, you are Just as you are doing, they should always been in the present tense.

For the teachers out their I would really like your thoughts on how I should approach the transition for focusing on dream recall to lucidity?

I was going to suggest what you are already started doing in your last post...a lucid mantra during WBTB. Some people find more success writing out their mantras at least 30 times each night starting off with a new one. It can even be done during the day. Have you started noticing anything that is common in a lot of your dreams (dream signs)?

Anyone got a neat trick that works those times your lying in bed and it just won't come out?

If you have started to notice certain things come up in your dreams multiple times you can think "Was I just dreaming about ______?" Do I feel any emotion or sense lingering? Was I dreaming about someone I know? Somewhere I have been? Day or night? Who, What, When, Where, Why, How? Was I looking for something(common themes like something lost or late for something). If you get a fragment, try to retrace your steps. If you feel your recall is drying up, starting to write it down brainstorming style might help.

Could it have anything to do with it being the first REM cycle of my night?

Sometimes the first REM cycle can be harder, I think it just depends on how you were sleeping and how you were waking up. Sometimes my early dreams are a little more abstract.

Stayed up for 30 mins (logged on above to trying space out for a WBTB attempt) took me a long time to get to sleep, maybe due to to lights from my ipad typing the above?

Some people seem to have no problem with light, during WBTB and other do. If you feel like you are having a hard time falling back to sleep you can try eliminating the light and also things like reducing the time awake and make sure you don't think about things you need to do the next day or if you do accidentally, just write it down so you know you won't forget it and you can let that thought slip away and refocus your mind back to dreamy thoughts and goals.

RC's can take a while to show up in your dreams, but their real purpose is to get you thinking the kind of thoughts that would make you question whether you are dreaming...so the first way they may manifest is: "wait a minute, I am dreaming" and you may or may not feel the need to RC...usually it is just an Wow, I am absolutely dreaming type moment. If it is not, then you can RC to find out. Have several RC's to go through just in case one seems to tell you that you are awake.

Hi Fogelbise, thanks for stopping by.

Last night was interesting. I had 3 separate goes at a WBTB with no success but a lot of dreams recalled so a win on that front.

With the WBTBs I stayed up as described, and when I went back to bed simply visualised my previous dream with me realising I was dreaming in the scene I was recalling whilst using a mantra "next time I dream I will become lucid" or tried also "next time I'm dreaming I will realise I'm dreaming"

Waking up so many times was a bit crazy for me, before using the mantra about waking up after dreams I was someone that slept through the night. That mantra suggests my mind is accepting of them but having so many goes at a WBTB in one night and not getting much of a dream response at all is a bit of a let down.

Not to dwell though, hopefully I'll get just as many goes this evening.

Any advice on WBTB techniques would be appreciated....

Have you started noticing anything that is common in a lot of your dreams (dream signs)?

I've noticed a number of reoccurring DCs but they are many people who are in my life daily. Perhaps the best ones I've noticed are

- My mum who passed away last year
- school/university themes (I don't study anymore)
- sport related (maybe too general? But I'm watching or playing them)


Thanks for your time,
JB

Another night with lots of dream recall.
Dreams mire fragmented this evening though. 3-4 dreams but none extremely long.
Still no lucidity however final dream involves a conversation about lucid dreaming with a curious DC.
With Me explaining both what it is and saying I'm determined to develop the skill.
I'll take this as a good sign!

Jb

Any advice on WBTB techniques would be appreciated....

Yes, most people just do one WBTB in a night where you get up and get your mind a little activated (while avoiding waking life concerns and even avoid thinking about what you will be doing the next day). For most people approximately 4.5 hours after you first go to sleep is a good time to do your WBTB. You can still do your mini-awakenings where you just turn over and jot down a few notes. I know at least one DV member who wishes they didn't wake up after every dream...so something to keep in mind. For specific WBTB techniques, I found a lot of success with SSILD, which is fairly straightforward.

I am not sure how I missed this before, perhaps because it is similar to a Laberge mantra and it sounded good at first glance, but you were using the future tense in some of your mantras...using "I will." The most powerful dream sign will probably be seeing your mother. You can use a mantra as well such as "Every time I see (mum or her name), I am dreaming!" Do keep it present tense. You can also daydream about all the things you would like to say to her DC and even if you don't feel it is real communication it can feel meaningful and touching. And for your general one tailor it to yourself but keep it present tense such as "As I am dreaming, I realize I am dreaming!" or "Everytime I enter a dream, I realize I am dreaming!" I also used to use "Next time" but I now wonder if my subconscious takes it as "uhhh...next time" which is too often used when procrastinating and could very well be taken to mean "some time in the future." This one is a bit picky though.

final dream involves a conversation about lucid dreaming with a curious DC.
With Me explaining both what it is and saying I'm determined to develop the skill.
I'll take this as a good sign!

Yes, that is a good, sign!

Thanks again, for the advice.

Anyone able to assist on getting my mantras right??

Truth be told I'm a little confused about establishing my main mantra,

Which of these best represents the way I should think of them?

"My dream is vivid and clear. I'm aware and I'm lucid. I always remember my dreams"

"My dreams are vivid and clear. I always remember this dreams"

Perhaps coming up with a shorter one should be a goal but of course as a beginner I'm trying to cover vividness recall and lucidity which is near on impossible without reciting a paragraph! Ha ha any ideas?

Let's say from here I decide one of these is what I will recite most often - does this translate into then what I use falling asleep? And if so when would I then use a mantra to try reinforce a dream sign I've noticed?

Also, I've noticed that I have a propensity to wake after dreams through the night and have multiple WBTB opportunities. At these times is a different mantra recommended?

Since your recall seems good you could drop that portion of the mantra to make it shorter.

Anyone able to assist on getting my mantras right??

Did the suggestions in my last post not feel right?..I am willing to help you tweak your mantra(s)...and yes you could use one when going to bed and one during your wbtb and awakenings if you go back to sleep easily.

And if so when would I then use a mantra to try reinforce a dream sign I've noticed?

wbtb seems like the best time if not done both times.

Hi Fogelbise, - my comment to 'others' was more to spread the load! I certainly appreacite the assistance!

Did the suggestions in my last post not feel right?..

No its not that that they didn't feel right I suppose I've got all these ideas in my head and just not sure which to go with. Something tells me I may need to simplify the whole process. As I've said I have really seen an improvement in recal, even had conversations about LD in my dreams but so far no RCs or lucid moments.

Do you suggest speaking in the tense that I am in the dream already - ie "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware" or "My dreams are clear and in them I am aware" for example.

Or even just falling right back to something along the lines of "when I am dreaming, I become aware".

Since your recall seems good you could drop that portion of the mantra to make it shorter.

I thought this myself but hesistated because this improvement has only come in the last 2 weeks. I suppose I wondered whether dropping it might see my recall fall back.

Lastly, how would you recommend I make use of my wakings at night after my dreams? This stark increase in my night time wakings since I've concentrated on remembering my dreams has left me wondering what I should do with the time. Reading about WILDs tells me that perhaps those are best left until I am more experienced and stick to trying to induce a MILD? At the end of the day I do still need my 8hrs of sleep so perhaps there's something to be said for me not trying repeated WILDs that absorb a lot of sleep time while I'm still a novice.

Would you suggest just using the time to record my dream and then recite my 'main' mantra or an alternative like a dream sign or something else?

Cheers again,
JB

Originally Posted by imJB

Something tells me I may need to simplify the whole process.

I agree and especially since you are already sensing that yourself.

As I've said I have really seen an improvement in recal, even had conversations about LD in my dreams but so far no RCs or lucid moments.

Dreaming about LD conversations is definitely a good sign and you may not see your RCs pop up in your dreams because they are mainly a mindset focusing on your self-awareness which you should start seeing pop up but it may take some time. For most people they realize they are dreaming and then may perform an RC after realizing, though some people do see it the other way around.

Do you suggest speaking in the tense that I am in the dream already - ie "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware" or "My dreams are clear and in them I am aware" for example.

Or even just falling right back to something along the lines of "when I am dreaming, I become aware".

I like "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware!" You can even have in mind one of your recent dreams and imagine becoming aware during the dream if that doesn't feel too cumbersome...I often do this during my daytime RCs.

I thought this myself but hesistated because this improvement has only come in the last 2 weeks. I suppose I wondered whether dropping it might see my recall fall back.

Well, you definitely want to keep up your DJ and that should help keep up your recall. You will have up and down recall days but if you feel like it is slipping you can certainly re-focus on it.

Lastly, how would you recommend I make use of my wakings at night after my dreams? This stark increase in my night time wakings since I've concentrated on remembering my dreams has left me wondering what I should do with the time. Reading about WILDs tells me that perhaps those are best left until I am more experienced and stick to trying to induce a MILD? At the end of the day I do still need my 8hrs of sleep so perhaps there's something to be said for me not trying repeated WILDs that absorb a lot of sleep time while I'm still a novice.

It is recommended for most people to save WILDs for later so I think all of your thoughts above are on target in that regard. Your sleep is indeed important. If you find it easy to get back to sleep during these awakenings you can simply roll over and jot down some keywords from your dream and return to sleeping position. If you have no problem doing some mantras and falling back to sleep you can do some. So, my thought is, since you are waking up several times a night, keep them short and doze back off. Any time you wake up and feel like you are in between sleep and awake you can try to DEILD for 30 seconds (a form of WILD) and if nothing seems to have happened in 30 seconds you can try a motionless RC like seeing if you can float or notice if you are even taking breaths which most people don't in the dream body (of course the sleeping body back in bed is breathing and if you notice it and it feels natural then you are likely awake) and then either jot some notes in your DJ and/or roll over and go back to sleep. If you are getting enough sleep and feel rested you can check the time on one of these awakening and do a proper WBTB on the awakening closest to the 4.5 hour mark where you actually get up, DJ, walk around a bit, go to the bathroom (I can't stay up very long, but others stay up from 20 minutes to an hour). You just want to keep your thoughts dream related and not waking life concerns...if any waking life concerns creep in you can jot them down as a to do list that can wait until the morning at the very least.

Would you suggest just using the time to record my dream and then recite my 'main' mantra or an alternative like a dream sign or something else?

Perhaps it would be best to stick to your main mantra in the beginning but if you saw your dream sign pop up that night and/or if it feels right to throw in a dream sign mantra/visualization session in there, go for it! I have seen the same dream sign pop up twice in one night in different dreams (with variations) on two recent nights. And the DEILD only if it feels right, if it feels like you are right on the bubble between awake and asleep, then as a beginner you can often slip back into a dream aware (lucid) assuming your REM cycle hasn't ended...DEILDs are more for if you are woken in the middle of your dream or it may even feel like the end of a dream but something in the dream or in your sleeping environment may have awoken you prematurely. It will feel different from an awakening at the end of a REM cycle but it may take some time to notice the difference.

Great post thank you, very helpful.

Dreaming about LD conversations is definitely a good sign

Good to hear, it's happened twice nearly so I'm happening something sinking in somewhere!

I like "My dream is clear, I'm lucid and aware!"

Me too, I'll try stick to this, it's tempting to try cover all bases but like you say I seem to be getting reasonable recall results with the DJ do Ill try keep it simple for a few nights.

I was recalling a dream this morning and can recall a mindset in the dream that almost felt like I was lucid - kind of 'proud' of what I was doing. Hard to explain almost like I was sensing a lucid moment but not remembering it if that makes sense.

Your recommendations on how I might 'best use' my night waking a I think will really help. I was seeing every time I woke up as an opportunity to try something like a WILD but felt maybe that was a bit advanced and just led to a loss of sleep. I'm not familiar with DEILDs so ill do some reading.

DEILD only if it feels right, if it feels like you are right on the bubble between awake and asleep, then as a beginner you can often slip back into a dream aware (lucid) assuming your REM cycle hasn't ended...DEILDs are more for if you are woken in the middle of your dream or it may even feel like the end of a dream but something in the dream or in your sleeping environment may have awoken you prematurely. It will feel different from an awakening at the end of a REM cycle but it may take some time to notice the difference.

Ill need to do a bit of reading into this, I haven't read up on DEILDS.

So to sum up,

Are you basically saying that as a beginner lets keep it simple - if you feel like you were just dreaming maybe try a DEILD and/an RC to check for false awakening....otherwise take it easy, do a DJ entry and just go back to sleep.

If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?

Thanks for the practical advice. I have been pretty tired these last few night mixing the work week with my dream practise - probably not a good thing.

I'll give this a go for a few nights and drop back to report how it goes. With good news of course!
Cheers
John

Originally Posted by imJB

So to sum up,

Are you basically saying that as a beginner lets keep it simple - if you feel like you were just dreaming maybe try a DEILD and/an RC to check for false awakening....otherwise take it easy, do a DJ entry and just go back to sleep.

If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?

Thanks for the practical advice. I have been pretty tired these last few night mixing the work week with my dream practise - probably not a good thing.

Precisely. Great summary John! The only other thing I would add, since you recently let me know that it is tiring, is to lean towards the quickly-dozing-back-off-side-of-things on most of your awakenings and if you still find yourself tired the following day you may want to avoid the longer WBTB until you feel more rested or perhaps save it for the weekends...which is when I usually save them for, but I have trouble getting back to sleep more than most people. If you feel rested enough, go with your gut feeling. After some practice you may find it easier to do some tasks and quickly go back to sleep and feel rested the next day. You seem to have gotten the essence of this idea anyway with this quote:

If I'm well rested and it's near the sweet spot of 4.5 hrs maybe try a WBTB MILD using dream signs if I've seen them that night otherwise just my main mantra?

I'll give this a go for a few nights and drop back to report how it goes. With good news of course!

Sounds good. Check back in when you are ready to and you definitely have the right attitude with that last sentence projecting confidence and expectation of positive results! Cheers!

Hi JB, have you considered joining in a friendly competition:

http://www.dreamviews.com/general-lu...read-16-a.html

One gets points even for nonlucids recalled, but it is a great motivation tool for lucidity.

Best!

Hi JoannaB no, but i also cannot say that I am familiar with those. I'll head over and take a look

Workbook entry

Dream recall has been much lower through the work week. Still remembering 2-3 dreams a night but they are more fragmented and not as long as those I got over the last weekend. Last night I woke up at around 1.5 and 3hrs after I went to bed and both times couldn't recall any dreams, which I thought was unusual.
Work again around 6-7hrs and could remember a couple of dreams. Later in the morning when I woke I remember another couple of fragments.

One dream involved my Mum who I think could be a dream sign for me, in the dream though that didn't click.

No lucidity yet apart from a conversation in my dream with a DC who was riding in a car with me. She explained to me that I we could drive faster in the car "but it was my mind hat was slowing us down". Interesting comment

Still really putting effort into the awareness through the day and combining with meditation practise each day (something that I think complements my attempts to LD but also something which in itself I want to learn to combat day to day stress and anxiety etc).

Tonight's Friday so I'm hopeful the opportunity to be better rested over the weekend will be a positive toward my practise. Seems like I might be one of those who takes a bit longer to see LD results but i am certainly way ahead in my dream recall than i have ever been before which is progress in itself,

The weekend can definitely give you the opportunity to ramp everything back up. See how it affects your recall and try to notice what you did differently from the last few days. If needed, we can figure out different ways to improve recall during the work week if you are mostly focusing on getting a good nights sleep and you continue to see low recall going into the next work week. If needed, you can always go back to your recall mantra until your recall seems to stabilize...but you could also just be seeing a temporary dip which is normal. Expect good results this weekend and post any questions you might have. I will try to check in over the weekend.

Yeow! Just woke from my first lucid dream!
Above I said how I got lucid years ago when I was last really concentrating on LD but this was different.

So, bit of a low down.

Last few days I have been using my 'day time', mantra - "my dream is clear I'm lucid and aware". Reciting it whenever I increase my awareness + doing RCs. Sometimes adding on the end "I remember my dreams".

I read something the other day though about subconscious messaging that said the most effective messages to your SC Have direct time frames so it's clear when you want the thing to happen. So last night as I was in bed before sleep I recited "tonight I will realise I'm dreaming". (The article recommended saying in x hrs I will realise I'm dreaming). I changed it because I wake so often I thought it would break the sequence. I'm gonna make this my 'night mantra'.

So I went to sleep and found myself awake after 2hrs. No dream recall. 2 hrs later (3am), dream recall and just went back to sleep and 2hrs again (5am) with recall again. This time though I watched some TV in bed for 15mins with the idea of trying a WBTB (although I wasn't so concerned with the 'process' - just thought ok I'll stay up for a bit).

So this time when I was going to sleep I spent about 4-5mins reciting "in 30mins I will realise I'm dreaming".

So the LD - in the dream I. was being chased. Whenever I got cornered though I was able to 'teleport' elsewhere before I'd get caught up to again and repeat. Still not lucid tho despite me 'knowing' I could do this. eventually I get into an apartment with a DC teenager, can't recall what it was but it hit me - 'I'm dreaming'.

I look down at my hands, my left hand has 5 fingers but my right hand has 6 fingers!. I get a bit excited and can feel my heart race a little. I'm sitting down but in my mind think about spinning and this does enough to restabilise the dream. I do my nose pinch RC and noticed how I can still breath. Glad I did these so I can visualise them working!

Through all this the DC is talking to me and I'm trying to take in the conversation, needless to say I'm distracted. I'm lucid enough also to take in the room and can remember how truly 'real' it looks - another great thought to remember. I decide I want to look out the window and start thinking about what I want to see. When I get up to walk over to the window the dream starts to fade. I try to spin but a feeling of claustrophobia in the room limits me from doing it well so I wake. Rather than try get back in I decide to record and celebrate! The part where I was lucid was probably about 30secs before I woke up.

Woot woot!

Congratulations! So exciting.

Edit: the competition has not started yet, but if it had, you would get these points for this:

2 nonlucid dreams recalled earlier that night - it depends whether you recalled whole dream or just part of dream, they would either count 1/2 point or 1 point each

1 successful WBTB - 3 points
Recall dream (for lucid) - 1 point
Become Lucid - 5 points
Do an successful Reality Check - 1 point
Successfully stabilize the dream - 2 points
(Interact with a Dream Character - 2 points - not sure whether you would get these points, since it sounds like the DC was interacting with you, but dud you interact with the DC consciously yourself while lucid?)
So you would get 12-14 points for the lucid, plus 1-2 points for recall earlier that night if you had such a night during the competition. And you would post either the above entry into the dream competition thread, or you would still post it here, but post a link to this to the dream competition thread. Alas the competition has not started yet, so last night does not count yet, but keep up the good work, and you will do excellently in the competition.

Awesome!! Solid 1st LD back with good memory to try the various things that you did. That mantra idea makes sense...do you feel that was they key for you? Celebrate and look back and re-read the LD again for inspiration. Congratulations!

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. JoannaB I'll definitely check into that thread, it sounds like a good motivator.

Fogelibise - thanks! Seems like a really good first step after the mental effort I've put in. I suppose the idea now is to really instil that sense of 'I can do this'. Obviously it was short lived but that real lucid awareness was with me and that's what I'm looking for!

Whether it was that specific mantra or not who knows, but I think it has a lot to do with getting a system down - something that allows me to spend more time thinking about lucid dreaming and less time about thinking about thinking about lucid dreaming! but I did have the dream 30-1hr after I was reciting the specific mantra.

Any specific advise on what I should focus on to maintain my momentum with this or just stick to what I've been doing?

Is there much point exerting effort in those really early rem cycles to lucid dream/or even feel that disappointed if there isn't recall in the early cycles? Seems like a pattern to me at the moment that those early cycles are short and don't yield that much?

For now I'm going to stick with the day time / night time mantra approach. It worked so far! Thanks again. Till next time

Originally Posted by imJB

Seems like a really good first step after the mental effort I've put in. I suppose the idea now is to really instil that sense of 'I can do this'. Obviously it was short lived but that real lucid awareness was with me and that's what I'm looking for!

Absolutely! And 30 seconds is not bad for your first LD after a decade break!...but you can definitely extend them.

Whether it was that specific mantra or not who knows, but I think it has a lot to do with getting a system down - something that allows me to spend more time thinking about lucid dreaming and less time about thinking about thinking about lucid dreaming! but I did have the dream 30-1hr after I was reciting the specific mantra.

"thinking about thinking about" haha good point. What does "30-1hr" mean? Perhaps 30 minutes to 1 hour after...

Any specific advise on what I should focus on to maintain my momentum with this or just stick to what I've been doing?

I would definitely stick with what is working but also take some time to go back and re-read and re-live your LD. I often feel a real "pep in my step for the rest of the day" but by the next day or two I need to remind myself of how awesome the feeling was. It can provide just the right motivation to maintain your focus and momentum.

Is there much point exerting effort in those really early rem cycles to lucid dream/or even feel that disappointed if there isn't recall in the early cycles? Seems like a pattern to me at the moment that those early cycles are short and don't yield that much?

I often do not but I may try to at least jot a few notes in my DJ on the weekends during the earlier cycles. Weekdays, I just go back to sleep. You may find a good balance with some time and practice, but with your previous concerns about getting enough sleep, you might not want to worry as much about the early cycles, especially during the work week.

For now I'm going to stick with the day time / night time mantra approach. It worked so far! Thanks again. Till next time

Exactly! I am very happy for you John. It reminds me of when I first got back to LD'ing after years and years away.

Well no sequel to Friday nights LD on the remainder of the weekend unfortunately.

Despite some considerable effort both days it goes to show I'll need to keep working away to increase consistency.

Last night I had two WBTB opportunities and with both I tried the 'In 20 mins I will realise I am dreaming' mantra.
No LDs to recalls but in both instances I remember fairly long dreams with good clarity.

That's probably the next area of improvement I am seeing, on days when I have good recall the dreams I can are typically less fragmented. I can recall a more direct narrative through them and specifically recall conversations. I have been consistent in my meditation practise and I wonder if this is assisting my dream focus. I've read that it can.

How 'planned' should I be with my WBTBs? In both cases I woke around the 4-6 hr mark so figured they were good opportunities, both were also waking after a dreams. Do I need to set alarms for specific moments in my sleep cycle or should I just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times?

I haven't really kept track how long I've stayed up each time either to see the impact it has, perhaps I should?

I've got a long flight home today (13hrs) and will have jet lag to deal with at the other end so I suspect it will take a week or so to get back into a groove. All my entries thus far have been done during a work trip so a challenge of sorts will be for me to work a schedule at home where time commitments are a bit different.

Cheers

I've been doing some reading just now - StephLs workbook in fact - and it led me to reading about SSILDs. This method is very intriguing and for someone like me it seems perfect as I often wake once or twice in the 4-6hr period each night without an alarm. It seems simple, not particularly time consuming and conducive to sleep. It sounds too good to be true?

Is it really as simple as monitoring your minds eye vision, sound and body touch for a few cycles and then sleeping!?

I feel like all I need is a method that can unlock a few LDs in a short timeframe and my confidence is gonna do the rest. That LD the other night was a WBTB DILD I suppose (maybe a bit of MILD - but really what's the difference apart from a mantra or two) but this method sounds very practical for my sleep habits.

Would love your thoughts on it.....cheers

Originally Posted by imJB

Despite some considerable effort both days it goes to show I'll need to keep working away to increase consistency.

This is normal when you are starting out and if you keep it up you will see your consistency go up considerably. I definitely feel it is possible to have an LD whenever you want with the right effort and planning assuming you don't have factors working against you. I am not at that level, but I only put considerable efforts in during weekend sleeping. I am confident that it is achievable not only from my own increasing consistency but from other people's accounts. That kind of consistency would take considerable effort I am sure. You can have a whole lot of fun and great experiences without ever taking it to that level, so no need to commit to that level if you don't wish to.

Last night I had two WBTB opportunities and with both I tried the 'In 20 mins I will realise I am dreaming' mantra.
No LDs to recalls but in both instances I remember fairly long dreams with good clarity.

That's probably the next area of improvement I am seeing, on days when I have good recall the dreams I can are typically less fragmented. I can recall a more direct narrative through them and specifically recall conversations. I have been consistent in my meditation practise and I wonder if this is assisting my dream focus. I've read that it can.

I see this as a positive, normal progression for someone who is apparently putting forth a good amount of effort. I definitely feel that meditation is helpful, especially with some of the more advanced stuff.

How 'planned' should I be with my WBTBs? In both cases I woke around the 4-6 hr mark so figured they were good opportunities, both were also waking after a dreams. Do I need to set alarms for specific moments in my sleep cycle or should I just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times?

Based on your concerns regarding sleep I would do the latter: "just wait until nights I wake at approx. those times" unless you are in the weekend and want to make sure you don't miss that sweet spot, then you might consider an alarm. I don't like them waking me up too early in the night but last night I tried something new for me during my last 90 minutes of sleep that I read about and it gave me an LD. This method here: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-lucidity.html (I will also answer your SSILD question further down and I think either of these methods would be great for you to try next...the alarm one mentioned in this paragraph I used vibrate and stuck the phone in my pajama pocket for the last 90 minutes of my schedule sleep). Edit: this method involves the chance of waking you up *during a REM cycle thus allowing the chance to fall quickly back asleep and right into a dream with a much better chance to recognize that it is a dream...much easier for someone with experience but I wouldn't count it out for beginners without at least trying.

I haven't really kept track how long I've stayed up each time either to see the impact it has, perhaps I should?

If you can mentally estimate how long, sure. I wouldn't watch the clock as it may keep you awake.

I've got a long flight home today (13hrs) and will have jet lag to deal with at the other end so I suspect it will take a week or so to get back into a groove. All my entries thus far have been done during a work trip so a challenge of sorts will be for me to work a schedule at home where time commitments are a bit different.

Try to see it as a new challenge...don't let your rediscovered toy slip away as another memory of something you tried...I really wish I had kept it up years ago!

Originally Posted by imJB

I've been doing some reading just now - StephLs workbook in fact - and it led me to reading about SSILDs. This method is very intriguing and for someone like me it seems perfect as I often wake once or twice in the 4-6hr period each night without an alarm. It seems simple, not particularly time consuming and conducive to sleep. It sounds too good to be true?

Is it really as simple as monitoring your minds eye vision, sound and body touch for a few cycles and then sleeping!?

I have found it to be quite a consistent method for me...not 100%, but I worked it up to a well over 50% success rate. Practice it during the day once or twice when your mind is not foggy from waking up in the middle of the night. I wouldn't say it only requires a few SSILD cycles though, the process as the author outlines it was taking me 4 to 5 minutes to complete and I have played with it longer and shorter and eventually started doing it my own way.

I feel like all I need is a method that can unlock a few LDs in a short timeframe and my confidence is gonna do the rest. That LD the other night was a WBTB DILD I suppose (maybe a bit of MILD - but really what's the difference apart from a mantra or two) but this method sounds very practical for my sleep habits.

Would love your thoughts on it.....cheers

Sure John, I think you could pick one of those 2 techniques above to play with for 2 weeks to a month(then try the other if you wish...start with whichever feels right for you) and you should be able to put some more LDs under your belt to give you that confidence you mentioned! Let me know if you have any questions.