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To those with experience in having lucid dreams, have you ever created something in the real world from a lucid dream? For example, have you ever consciously dreamed of having a new car or house or being healthy whatever you were lacking in the real world, and it became a reality after you awoke?
If your trying to get a free new car to materialize out of thin air by dreaming it, get ready to be disappointed.
No as it's a dream.
No I'm not a skeptic.
Edit: Anything more is a coincidence.
the only way I can see this working is if you dream of having a nice house and a shiny new car, wake up and think "man, i want those things, im going to work towards it"
OR you have a FA, wake up and your a millionaire :cheeky:
It's not as simple as waking up and simply materialising these things the same way you would in a dream! A dream can inspire you to work towards these things, and with this inspiration you can easily achieve them, but they don't come instantly per-se, you must allow them to come in time :)
Nope, and I don't believe it can be done like that. I believe that ones subcoinsciousness can "predict" events, based on small signs it had recorded, and maybe give you the idea of it happening.
I once dreamed of finding my soul mate and woke up with a dead hooker next to me. For some reason the court didn't believe the whole "I created her through a dream" excuse.
Frikin lol! ^^^^
And, no, dreams are dreams, simple as that.
Lmao! I laughed so hard!Quote:
Originally Posted by cytotoxicT
Material items don't really work in this way. You need to make plans and put those plans into action. A skill like learning how to defend yourself, would carry over into waking life.
Well I'm going to counter all these nay-sayers.
You may be able to effect your physical reality through dreams, but it wouldn't be that simple. It would probably require creating a scenario or object repeatedly each time you dream, while putting a lot of emotional energy into it. If this was done, the scenario/object or something similar may find its way into your reality, though not by just materializing. For example if you created a car each night, maybe a friend would show up with a nice new car and offer you a ride, or you would win a contest. How it would manifest would be still be within the rules of this realm.
That's a load of rubish...
In Dan Brown's book "The Lost Symbol" there was a Noetic scientist who researched how the human mind interacted with matter, of course this is just a book, but the THOUGHT is pretty cool.
It's a pretty long read, but I promise you it's worth it!
"Human thought can literally transform the physical world. As Katherine's experiments grew bolder, her results became more astounding. Her work in this lab had proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that "mind over matter" was not just some New Age self-help mantra. The mind had the ability to alter the state of matter itself, and more important, the mind had the power to encourage the physical world to move in a specific direction. We are the masters of our own universe.
At the subatomic level, Katherine had shown that particles themselves came in and out of existence based solely on her intention to observe them. In a sense, her desire to see a particle. . . manifested that particle. Living consciousness somehow is the influence that turns the possibility of something into something real."
Well there is more, but then you have to read the book :)
I like to be very philosophic and here is a small spolier to the book:
The bible is a code some people have tried to solve it, but it's a hard work, but here is what they have found.
Temple is a metaphor to: BODY
God is a metaphor to: MIND
Protect the temple and believe in God!
But my point is that nothing is impossible. At least I like to believe so.
That sounds like the thesis behind The Secret, a book that appeared a few years ago and sold like wildfire for as long as someone believed the nonsense it preached. Now that it's pretty much understood that wishing something into existence simply does not work, the book sales have dropped off -- but not before the author got very rich feeding off the hopes of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquil Toad
That said, I no doubt naively hold out hope myself that thought energy* may have an effect on reality. But since the universe does not speak English, even if thought energy exists, affecting reality might be a bit more complex than simply thinking about a thing.
* In a very vague nutshell: thought energy is not brainwaves or the electricity generated by firing neurons, but rather a unique energy created -- from nothing -- every time a conscious thought is made. The energy could be used to influence physical reality, possibly, because it does not belong in the original formula for the universe; think of a pin popping a balloon. Unfortunately, thoughts would need to be very specifically formed in order to have that influence, and the trick is discover thought forms that actually work.
And that sounds like the esteemed Mr. Brown is simply misinterpreting a curious trait of quantum mechanics -- that the nature of a subatomic particle changes when it is observed. Pretty much any physicist, not just Katherine, will "create" a particle every time he chooses to, since the act of observing the particles defines (aka creates) them. Also, does noticing a subatomic particle really make you a master of your universe? Does it really equate to manipulating reality itself? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choi
You might not want to put too much faith in the extremely creative writings of Mr Brown.
Thank you for ruining everything for me =) I didn't said it was true I said it was a cool THOUGHT...
Sorry Choi! I guess I couldn't help myself! There is, of course, nothing ever wrong with a cool thought...who knows what its very existence might create, after all? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Choi
Actually we can influence matter outside of the "observing a particle makes it behave differently" effect. Tom Shadyac made a documentary called I Am, and it is about happiness and what draws people to be kind to one another. He did an experiment in the movie where his emotions could manipulate the electric potential energy of yogurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
He later interviews someone that was talking about how our random number generators have started to show patterns during periods of mass distress (9/11, tsunamis, ect.)
They also talk about some quantum mechanics and how subatomic particles can influence each other across (essentially) infinite distances instantaneously.
They use all this to suggest that we are all connected at some level and can influence matter (and people) around us.
Here he is talking about the yogurt experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zD4m...FBF8F9&index=5
I am not saying that believing in something will dramatically influence future events at any large scale. I just thought it was interesting piece of info and somewhat relevant to the conversation. And before you dismiss everything I said, watch the movie and take it up with them.
CytotoxicT:Quote:
Originally Posted by cytotoxicT
How could I possibly dismiss claims in a documentary by a man who did an experiment in the movie where his emotions could manipulate the electric potential energy of yogurt? Talk about the "I'm not making this up" department!
Thanks for sharing -- it is certainly relevant to the conversation, and in all seriousness might even illustrate my reference to thought energy somewhere above. Still, I don't think Mr. Shadyac discusses using his dreams to get stuff...
I do think we are creating this reality, but its not as simple as "I wish for a million dollars" and having it appear the next day. A few points to consider:
It seems emotions are more influential than thought - as demonstrated by the yogurt experiment. If you have an extremely emotionally charged thought it will be more likely to effect your reality than just repeating empty words in your head.
The ego itself, your thinking mind, may only hold a small level of influence. You have many themes and ideas which are being explored in this life, and your ability to create will be at its height when you are in alignment with what is truly important to you. Your mind may say "I want a new house, I want a new car, I want this and that," but if none of these things are really related to your path in this existence, the charge will not be there to allow them to manifest. This loops back to the importance of emotions. If you are most yourself when you are- for example- creating artwork, will having a fancy car really excite you that much? However your ability to create what you need to continue your art will always be there.
How something manifest may not be exactly as the mind has planned, down to the detail. I'm sure most of us have experienced this with lucid dreams. You intend for something to appear, but how it appears is always novel. You don't think of every detail for the landscape you want to create, you just pick the theme. In the same way the mind in this reality does not completely control the outcome, but it can choose the theme or direction.
I have never read The Secret, but if people came away from that book thinking they could just wish whatever they want into existence, as Sageous said, they would quickly realize it doesn't work that way. It doesn't mean you don't create your reality, its just that they are putting too much stock in the will of the mind.
All of the above could be applied to the OPs question about dreams. Pick something that is important to you, enact it out in your lucid dreams, and then allow it to manifest without the need to control exactly how.
LSDBase is created in its entirety while I am asleep. Q.E.D.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin32
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Originally Posted by Tranquil Toad
Agreed. Given that you seem to be saying that, in this case, emotion is manifesting as unconscious thought, I think we are talking about the same thing, just with different words.
Speaking of words, in my very short description of thought energy (it really needs much more space to correctly describe), I led you to think that thought forms are correctly chosen words thought in the right order. That's not entirely wrong, but what is important is not the words themselves -- I'm guessing they would sound like gibberish, like the words I've heard used by eastern mystics. It is the energy form that thinking those words creates that matters. I also said that those gibberish words would be very hard to come across (and the mystics have kept them close to their vests for centuries, assuming they actually know any at all). Now, given that, in terms of thought, emotions can command many more varieties of thought forms thanks to the fact that emotions can tap the unconscious very effectively, there is an excellent chance that emotions might create usable thought forms. Trouble is, the forms they create might have nothing to do with your conscious desires: because the universe doesn't speak your language, the odds that the thought energy randomly created by emotion "makes" anything of value to you are slim... this would only be incorrect if there is a god out there receiving our thought energy -- in our language -- and handing back to us what we desire. I guess I just defined prayer!
At any rate, you are correct, Mr. Toad, on all fronts. Save one: regardless of emotions, your desires will never change physical reality simply because you desire them, emotionally or rationally. Physical reality has been around way longer than humans have, and it is not programmed to respond to our requests. Unless, of course, God made it that way (I only wrote that in case there is a God and He's listening -- not a good idea to piss off the Big Guy). Also, for what it's worth, The Secret was all about directing desire emotionally.
Definitely agreed. Practicing this kind of creation and control in LD's would be a very good thing, for a couple of reasons: First, because it's an excellent exercise for personal development and second, perhaps in the process you would learn to tap the vast resources of your unconscious thoughts/emotions.Quote:
All of the above could be applied to the OPs question about dreams. Pick something that is important to you, enact it out in your lucid dreams, and then allow it to manifest without the need to control exactly how.
I just remembered a fun anecdote about this stuff.
I spent years riding a commuter train to my job in Manhattan, which usually was little better than a cattle drive to Hell. On one particularly long hot ride replete with breakdowns and delays, I was sitting near a young couple talking very loudly about things like this subject. At one point the woman confidently said, "I am in complete control of my reality." Without missing a beat, the man replied, "Then why are you on this train?"
Reality is a very powerful thing, and it is far bigger than any of us. Just thinking we can affect it -- whether emotionally, with thoughts, through dreams, with magic, with prayer, etc -- is not enough. I'm not saying that we couldn't affect physical reality, but if we can, it'll take quite an effort; perhaps even a superhuman one. And, perhaps, learning to communicate with our unconscious through LD's is a good first step toward learning how to do it....
Relating to OP's post, there is one thing that you can gain in reality from a dream.
If you had an idea/invention/thought of some sort in your dream, you can remember when you wake up.
Thats really the only thing you can gain from dreaming.
You won't wake up with a Maserati in your garage if you had one in your dream buddy.
Although, everything you see except the nature, unless you believe in God as a person, is based on an idea :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P779X...eature=related
I remember i tried to get a car in my dream and it worked what i did was just imagine it , look back and bam it was there.
I like this... what is this I'm recognizing in your last paragraph? Is that ... belief? Heh. I tend to agree with the idea that anything is possible. This isn't what Sageous said exactly but he seems to think it's possible so meh, close enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
No, I totally don't think if you dream of anything it will be there when you wake up. That's just silly. Dreaming is a thought-based reality and our waking reality is a much more dense and physical place. You can't transfer anything of any sort of mass from one place to the other. Heck, memories are difficult enough to get from a to b.
On the other hand, I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE. That's such a horribly limiting word. I think there's a way to achieve anything, just some methods are more difficult than others.
There are some things which can be transfered from the dream state to waking and visa versa. You can take skills and personality traits developed in one state to the other. It's not always a clear transfer and pieces may be lacking but it's possible. For example, confidence is an easy one :P It actually is. Lucidity gives way to finding alternate endings to undesireable circumstances. This in turn gives you more control over your environment and thus, confidence because you're able to create your reality.
The power of thought is a new area of 'science'. From what I've seen in dreaming, thoughts play a big part in our dreaming environment. WakingNomad mentioned once that the dreamstate is similar to turning a canoe in the ocean whereas reality is more like trying to turn a large barge. It happens, but it just takes a lot of energy.
... maybe a super human amount of it.
Oh and lucid dreaming seems to be supportive of telepathy. Really, if you think about it, with the number of mannerisms, context, and facial expressions ... if you pay attention to other people, telepathy doesn't seem that far of a stretch in todays world.
You got me, Kaomea! I admit that under my skepticism and arguments against the more impossible things like this lies a tiny grain of hope that they can happen -- and that is the hope that pushes me forward. Everyone should have it, regardless of their rational confidence in the impossibility of things. So I do hope...but sshhh! don't tell anyone about it! I don't want to ruin my stodgy image! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaomea
Now back to being contrary: take care not to confuse paying attention while following the laws of physics with communication using an energy source whose existence and control defy the laws of physics completely...as those laws are currently written, of course!Quote:
Oh and lucid dreaming seems to be supportive of telepathy. Really, if you think about it, with the number of mannerisms, context, and facial expressions ... if you pay attention to other people, telepathy doesn't seem that far of a stretch in todays world.
P.S. Very nice post overall, though!
I've read on this forum and another forum about precognitive lucid dreams that "predict" or "manifest" a real physical event that the dreamer perceives later in WL as a Déjà Rêvé. I realize that the lucid dreamers reported manifesting an event, not a physical object, but the event was physical and the objects were manifested.
Ooooooo. Prediction versus manifestation is always an interesting topic. Who's to say which it is really.... I suppose if it's a thing we want to happen, it's manifestive whereas if it's something we wouldn't want to happen, we'd call it predictive :shadewink:
More seriously though, there are some who believe dreams allow us to explore various futures. In doing so, we learn which future we'd like to play out and when it finally does, that leads to deja vu or deja reve. The difference between vu and reve seem to be minimal depending on how you view it that too. I mean, what is a dream? What is seeing? How do we see? There are too many ways to see and dreaming is simply one of them.
I like that though, the idea that lucid dreamers manifest an event, which is a physical thing... which can lead to objects being manifested. So in a roundabout way, maybe it is possible to manifest objects and other solid things into this reality. It's just a matter of finding that little energetic loophole. Hmmmm...
Guys, this is very possible.
I once dreamed I had a lucid dream, and the next day I had a lucid dream. Mind blown. I know some of you won't believe me, but you must try it.
It would be like consciously manipulating your life, rather than unconsciously, right? Because in dreams, the logical/rational aspect isn't there. I believe it's that same aspect that keeps us from doing IRL what we can do in Dreams.
Yeah, that and the laws of physicals, physical limitations, etc. But yeah if you just think differently the universe will bend and warp until you can fly and turn clouds into daffodils, definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissLucy
I've watched What the Bleep do we know, finally, and combined it, The Matrix and Inception into one theory.
In What the Bleep, they say everything has a consciousness (I experienced this personally when in a dream I became the consciousness of a White Blood Cell), and that water changes molecularly depending on how you feel about it.
In The Matrix, it's suggested that "ignorance is bliss", meaning you don't know something's wrong until being shown the other option.
This led me to think about what reality really is. If DCs are our SUB-conscious, then Waking Life characters must be our consciousness? The whole "We are ONE" idea. So that then, in turn, led me to think about how what DCs say is our SUB-consciousness conveying a message to us, usually about ourselves. So WL-characters must be conveying messages about ourselves too, considering "I", "ourselves" etc are all "the Consciousness" of everything.
So I've learned to take each and every input from another person/animal as a criticism about myself. Positive criticism, though, with no judgement. Just a statement of what I am not. They are different parts of the Consciousness than I, and yet.. ..they're not. They're showing off other aspects of the Consciousness than I, and are therefor reminders of everything the Consciousness is, but which I choose not to portray.
..did that make sense to any of you? :P
In Inception, they "mess with the physics of it all" while in a dream. Consider the above 2 ideas. If we can do it sub-consciously to the dream-world (sub-reality), there must be a way to learn/remember how to do it consciously to the physical world (reality), surely?
I hope that is joke logic. Please. Tell me. Its a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissLucy
Worst reasoning I've ever heard. You can find sense in any sort of bullshit if you string it together in a right way.
Oh come on Loaf. You know you have secret desires of unleashing yourself in a set of bright color tights and quite possibly a cape.
Lucy, I loved 'What the Bleep Do You Know?' I mean, parts of it were slow but the message was worth it. Also, I liked your stringing together of all three movies. I agree in that we are our reality. Very cool thought with the WCs btw. I haven't considered it from that point of view, DCs vs WCs, but that's a mind fuck to consider. To think waking life is just as fictionous or just as real as our dream life is mildly disturbing.
What really stands out to me is your perception of how WCs relate to you. Each person and experience we have reflects who we are or aren't. Yeah it does sound a little simple but it's interesting to consider that those who swear they hate drama, seem to attract so much of it. Those who are into spiritual pursuits, tend to have a lot of those. People are what they attract. On the other hand I think there are times when we attract people we don't want to attract. In which case they're quickly dismissed if that's really not what we're looking for. We feed energy into people and experiences we want to hold onto. If we don't want it, we won't surround ourselves with it.
Challenges to our thinking adds another level to things though. Just because we attract something we don't intend to, doesn't make it any less valuable to us. Sometimes we need to challenge our beliefs, adjust a few concepts we've built and make some improvements or upgrades to our thinking. So for those rare times where we find ourselves utterly upset and infuriated over what someone does, it's a great opportunity to take a look at what exactly we're in opposition to... then release it and move on. That's my theory anyway... which is a work in progress too.
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Originally Posted by Kaomea
(Seriously though I don't get it, what does this have to do with the above nutjob-ness.)
Haha call me a nutjob, Loaf, that's fine :P I was dead serious, for the record, though. That's just how I reasoned. I should mention here that I do have some mild form of Bipolar Disorder. Not saying that for pity's sake, just saying I have an altered state of mind to begin with.
And if you thought that's "the worst reasoning you've ever heard", you should NEVER see me drunk LOL.
Kaomea, the law of attraction is fascinating indeed. We attract that which we think of. So if you think of drama (regardless of whether you want it or not), you'll attract drama. So I've learned that if I don't want something, I just have to not give it any thought or attention. Everything takes energy to manifest, so if I don't put any energy in something, it can't manifest for me.
Fascinating observation!
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If we can do it sub-consciously to the dream-world (sub-reality), there must be a way to learn/remember how to do it consciously to the physical world (reality), surely?
~ MissLucy
Thanks, I'm on a bit of a revelation train lately :p
I describe reality as non-linear vs. linear. We're raised to believe life is linear and all actions require absolute cause and effect. But then we have precognitive lucid dreams and precognitive NDs and even telepathic dreams (which I've had) and OBEs (which I've had) and suddenly our linear view of the world requires patches and rationalizations and creative explanations. One day everyone will accept that life is non-linear in nature and it will seem almost unbelievable that such a limited, linear view of reality possessed civilization.
I love this quote from above:
Quote:
To think waking life is just as fictionous or just as real as our dream life is mildly disturbing.
~ Kaomea
Well, I appreciate your ability to take that criticism. Though I shall never understand you. :UQuote:
Originally Posted by MissLucy
I don't take anything personally, don't worry. You're just as entitled to your opinion on my mental state as I am to my opinion on my tea being too sweet ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Loaf
Life's fun, and funny, I can see humour in pretty much anything that doesn't actually harm anyone ;)
Besides, the way your formulated that was funny to me XD
And that you don't understand is fine too, if we'd all understand each other perfectly, what reason would we have for speech and discussion?
I really can't explain it any other way, so maybe I'm just not very good at explaining :P
It's all good fun, as long as nobody gets hurt ;)
BTW, that kittyloaf in your avatar is ADORABLE X3
Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissLucy
I tried changing it twice in my years here at DV, and each time I've attempted to get rid of it I've been sent a number of mock-angry messages demanding I turn it back hahah.
Hahaha we demand cuteness!
Oh damn it. You outdid me :*(Quote:
One day everyone will accept that life is non-linear in nature and it will seem almost unbelievable that such a limited, linear view of reality possessed civilization.
Actually though, when you wrote that I immediately thought of how idiotic civilization was when they thought the world was flat, heh. Back then it just seemed so concrete and it wasn't until they were proved wrong that they realized the world is round. Guess they'll just have to be proved wrong again. Nice thoughts about linear vs non-linear.
I had a precognitive dream the other night and the actual waking life event happened two nights ago. Uncanny and yet, in my mind, completely ordinary and normal. While the precognitive dream was not an exact duplicate of the future event, it was accurate in a profound, visceral, deeply emotional way that only I could decode and understand. I was blown away.
So, creating reality through lucid dreaming doesn't seem all that difficult and may actually be taking place all the time -- especially via non-lucid dreaming.
I'm with you on that one as well. I had a Lucid last night that I would do a LOT for to make it reality!
I was really sick with the flu, and in my dream I rebuilt my body on the molecular level. When I woke up, I felt better! I wasn't cured, but I wasn't shivering violently anymore, my stomach felt better. Perhaps it was just the sleep that fixed me up, but it makes me wonder.
I think there are folks on this forum who LD, manufacture a dream scenario they know will manifest in waking life reality, and then go about their business in RL waiting for it to manifest -- and then boom, there it is. It'd be fun to hear from them.
I'm one of these people. In my last lucid I created a.. ."romantic" setting and event with a particular person. Last weekend I found a way to make a meeting between me and that person possible. So I'm just going to concentrate on my intention and let the meetin happen, love should happen on its own then, right? (any form or shape of love will do)Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterControl
Another pretty much mindblowing thread :O I'm still not sure what to think of the waking world-dreamworld relation. I can't prove any of the theories, so I just do what I like to do in my LD's :P I like pretty much every theory given though
I would say perhaps trying this with just thinking about it in a dream may not yield much. However, one can use a dreams to learn certain occult skills such as LERMing, MPO, alchemy. Our ancestors used to do it all the time, we have just far forgotten those skills in trade for conveniences of machines
I believe what ever you impress upon the subconscious will eventually manifest its self in your life. There are many methods for subconscious suggestion like affirmations, hypnosis, meditation etc. It seems to me the most effective way to imprint an idea into the subconscious is when we are intimately connected to it. Dreams. If you are aware that your dreaming you have an opportunity to communicate directly with that which may be creating the physical reality you observe. Just a thought. :-)