Thread: Ship to hell...??

Dear Undo.

I like the Spiritual Symbology within your dreams -- The Vine of Christ and the Light. and your Dream points to a Truth that Catholics know of more from the experiences of their Saints than because of any positive Doctrine or point of Faith, and that is that Penance and Suffering done for Atonement are commodities that can be transferred from Soul to Soul. Often Saints have deliberately incurred great sufferings and served stringent penances in order to ameliorate the conditions for the poor souls in Purgatory, even to the point of freeing them for deliverence into Heaven.

Oh, which brings to mind the distinction between hell and Purgatory. Your boat from hell, in your dream, from which one of your old friends returned.... Hmmmmm. No one returns from Hell (though there are some ruminations that Our Lady may be contemplating a means of purifying and lifting up even these stink-ridden predators and human beasts), but Purgatory, for souls with some innate goodness in their hearts though they be stained with some horribly bad habits, Souls only need to stay in Purgatory until they are Purified.

Purgatory was in interesting development. It was not a natural place and did not already exist but was specially created by God for a purpose that had not been anticipated. Originally only the Highest and Purest Souls were to be admitted into the Kingdom of God -- within the Holy City, that is, to be in the Very Presence of Holy God Almighty. Those of innate predatory evil and irredeemable beastliness would be sent to the wastelands of hell, to be forever separated from souls of those who appreciate Community and moral goodness. But souls less than perfect would be allowed to live in the great middleground -- protected from the demons of Hell, but because of their impurities and imperfections, not allowed into the Holy City of God.

To everyone's surprise, some of these Middle Zone Souls would be so disconsolate at being segragated from the City of God that they would go to any extreme to enter into whatever Light of God they could find, from any crack or reflection from the Holy City. Now, you need to understand, that the Light of God BURNS like a Fire when it is absorbed by any Imperfection. If one's Soul is Pure and Translucent, like the Clearest Glass or Crystal, then the Light of God can pierce through without transferring any HEAT. But any opacity, spot or mist will burst into Flame. Very painful! But the Souls were eagerly seeking out just such opportunities. Frankly, it took God Himself by surprise. Anyway, God decided to systematize the process.

Oh, and regarding the transferrability of Penances, Catholics consider it quite important to pray that Light be sent to the Poor Souls in Purgatory so that they may be sooner than later purified and be made worthy to enter into the City of God. It was one of Satan's greatest victories, in establishing the Protestant Sects, that such a great portion of nominal Christians are taught on their mothers breasts to renounce any belief in Purgatory and pointedly instructed to never pray for their dead.


Anyway, I do not think you will be going to hell, but rather that you are spending some time in Purgatory, taking upon yourself the impurities of this Lady you are standing in for. You have quite the instincts of a Saint. and you should remember that Souls whom you free from Purgatory through your Penances, Prayers, and Atonements will be eternally grateful to you. You could do worse for yourself.

Leo,

Im not a Catholic, and I do not believe in purgatory. I think there is an alternate meaning... Im just not exactly sure what it is. Ive been having a lot of dreams about saving people, and a lot of times it is in a dream about the end of the world or sometimes in a religious context. Im not sure if the dreams are meant to prepare me for something I must do later on, or if they are just symbolic for events that are presently occuring in my life. If you had any other thoughts that would be great!!

Originally posted by undothemystery
Leo,

Im not a Catholic, and I do not believe in purgatory. *I think there is an alternate meaning... Im just not exactly sure what it is. *Ive been having a lot of dreams about saving people, and a lot of times it is in a dream about the end of the world or sometimes in a religious context. *Im not sure if the dreams are meant to prepare me for something I must do later on, or if they are just symbolic for events that are presently occuring in my life. *If you had any other thoughts that would be great!!

It seems nobody is a Catholic, but EVERYBODY is a Protestant to the extent that they are complete nihilists, accepting only the starkest materialism, except for certain doctrines they are willing to "believe" entirely on an aesthetic basic. I can't suppose they ever really think about it, or it would occur to them that some things exist and some concepts are purely imaginary, and that "belief" has nothing at all to do with anything's reality. The underlying politically correct assumption is to allow that what people "believe" is 'true for them'. This is a development from Protestants who got tired of Doctrine Wars and decided that, what the hell, the Truth doesn't matter anyway.

Now, what surprises me in your case, is that in order to keep up a socially acceptable level of bigotry against Catholics, you are willing to renounce the obvious implications of your own Dreams and Higher Mind. It's not very true to yourself, but at least you can keep steering clear of those catholics. They may have given us Civilization, but what have they done lately.

Dear Leo,

Not everything has to always be completely about religion. He was not attacking Catholicism. Stop being so defensive. You make yourself look like one who starts the fights when you do that.

Dear undothemystery,

My thoughts on these dreams are that you have been let into a certain area where you have felt happy or you have been granted many new freedoms everytime you have been "saved". I think the part about hell is where others that you know get to go somewhere new, but you are left behind and go down a different path that you don't like. The girl you know may represent a friend of yours and she could be given an oppurtunity that you usually get. No matter what you do it is her chance to go to "heaven". Maybe the girl went down to a certain kind of hell many times and she finally got her chance.

This is just an idea.

Best Regards ,

Yume

Leo,

I find it kind of humorous that you instantly assume that I am a "Protestant" and that I am denouncing some of the Catholic beliefs. I claimed to not believe in Purgatory; I am not saying that they are wrong and that it doesnt exist. I am an agnostic and dont necessarily "believe" in anything. Im open to all ideas because Im not sure there is a way to determine the truth... at least not along religious lines. Im only trying to figure out why I have been having so many dreams in a religious context. Like in this dream, I didnt even know that the vine had anything to do with Christ before I dreampt it. So how would I have dreampt about something like that??... unless of course I knew subconsciously I guess. I dont know Im just searching for answers right now is all.

Yume,

Thanks for the thoughts!! Now that I think about it, your idea does seem to fit in some ways. Maybe I guess how others are able to move on with their lives assuming they have found some "answers", and Im still stuck here because I cant figure out my own reasons. About the girl, I remember that I didnt think she should be able to go to heaven, but she was anyways and was taking my place. She hasnt really had a hard life; so Im not exactly sure what that could mean. Maybe the girl was just symbolic of something instead of actually representing the actual person.

The girl could be anything. Usually people dream about something they are comfortable with seeing to represent something they would rather not see. I think that people like to dream of things they are used to and can bear to see.

[/quote]It was one of Satan's greatest victories, in establishing the Protestant Sects,



I like that quote of your ill use it some time.