[INTRO/DC-1] Chat Logs from former courses

[Serenity]

Spoiler for Spoiler for chat log: [18:59] <@Serenity> Alright, so just to get some preliminary out of the way... [18:59] <@Serenity> If you have a question, feel free to post it any time [19:00] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:00] <@Serenity> just type QUESTION! before you type it so i don't miss it [19:00] <@Serenity> so like... [19:00] <quorthonafull> Hi [19:00] <smushy> QUESTION! Am I doing it right? [19:00] <@Serenity> QUESTION! What is this ungodly hour of the morning? [19:00] <@Serenity> smushy, you got it :0 [19:00] <smushy> Yay. [19:00] <@Serenity> [19:00] <smushy> [19:01] <@Serenity> thanks for making it here tonight, everyone [19:01] <smushy> I'm so excited to be here. [19:01] <smushy> Thanks for letting me in! [19:01] <cardeal> Im never good at questions... [19:01] <@Serenity> you should all have your forum access to the course and workbooks now [19:01] <cardeal> same! [19:01] <@Serenity> make sure to drop by the chat thread to say hello to each other [19:01] <Marlowe> EXCLAMATION! This is cool! [19:01] <@Serenity> let's-ah begin [19:01] <smushy> I just saw that I have access to it. I'll write my threads later, so I'm not distracted from the chat. [19:02] <@Serenity> so everyone here is coming in with various levels of understanding lucid dreaming and what it is [19:02] <cardeal> I will write it when wake up! lol [19:02] <@Serenity> can anyone tell me, what is a lucid dream? [19:02] <@Serenity> (bueller, bueller?) [19:02] <smushy> A dream where you know its a dream! [19:02] <Marlowe> ooh ooh I got the answer (Raises hand like crazy) [19:02] <@Serenity> just spot them out [19:02] <@Serenity> spout* [19:02] <smushy> Im such a teachers pet. [19:03] * Serenity tosses smushy an orange [19:03] <@Serenity> that's it? everyone agree with that answer? [19:03] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:03] <smushy> Yum. Pulpy! [19:03] <theking> Sounds good [19:03] <Marlowe> Yes, its a dream where you are consciously aware [19:03] <@Serenity> well, it's right a lucid dream is lucid because you are aware it's a dream [19:03] == stjimmy [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:03] <smushy> Hi, stjimmy. [19:03] <stjimmy> hi =) [19:04] <quorthonafull> Hi, stjimmy [19:04] <@Serenity> some people get really confused, because they wonder "i couldn't control it?" [19:04] <@Serenity> or, they were only *just aware* [19:04] <smushy> A lucid dream is a dream where you are conciously aware, stjimmy. Great, now you are caught up. [19:04] <stjimmy> ok thanks [19:04] <@Serenity> control, in fact, has nothing to do with lucidity at all... it's just a bonus [19:05] <@Serenity> awareness... or levels of awareness, rather... that's a very personal thing [19:05] <@Serenity> each person perceives lucidity differently [19:05] <Marlowe> QUESTION! What Factors influence lucidity levels? [19:05] <@Serenity> some people refuse to accept the dream as lucid unless they were as clear of a state of mind as if they were awake >.> [19:05] <Solomon> Mhm [19:06] <DawgBone> Question! Are lucid dreams generally more vivid than ordinary dreams? [19:06] <@Serenity> Marlowe mostly just how aware you were [19:06] <Marlowe> oh ok [19:06] <@Serenity> DawgBone they can be, and generally are... but not always [19:06] <@Serenity> so, i'd like to introduce a *generally accepted* scale of lucidity, if i may [19:07] * plasticman slaps Vesterguard around a bit with a large fishbot [19:07] <plasticman> oops sry [19:07] <@Serenity> this is based on a researcher named Ed Kelog [19:07] <Vesterguard> OI! ^^ [19:07] <quorthonafull> lol [19:07] <@Serenity> plasticman, stand in the corner [19:07] <smushy> Yum, Keloggs. [19:07] <@Serenity> there's no fish-slapping here [19:07] <Marlowe> lmao time out time [19:07] <@Serenity> so, Ed Kelog's scale uses a base of 1-5. [19:08] <@Serenity> 1/5 I realize that I dream, but continue to follow the dream "script"; no conscious choice. [19:08] <@Serenity> In my experience, this is when i'm only "just aware" of this being a dream that i'm watching [19:08] <@Serenity> like knowing it's a dream in the back of my head [19:08] == Solomon [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [19:09] <@Serenity> I'll even provide myself with some running commentary, like "Wow, that pink elephant looks so unusual, this is a cool dream." [19:09] <@Serenity> 2/5 I still follow the dream script (knowing that I dream), but I can make minor choices in keeping with dream reality. (This is where I know I'm dreaming, but I still have a plot to follow, and that's keeping me from really thinking things through and making my own conscious decisions as to what I want to do. I may transform into a dragon in order to kill puny fools blocking my path though, for example.) [19:09] <@Serenity> pretty self-explanatory [19:10] <@Serenity> 3/5 I have the choice of following the dream script or not, can make major choices based on awareness of my potentialities in the dream state. [19:10] <Vesterguard> Puny dragons, basics, check ^^ [19:10] <@Serenity> In 3/5 i might choose to do something epic, like walk through glass, play with telekinesis, etc [19:10] <smushy> QUESTION! I know that the numbers on the scale will be different according to how you personally see it as, but is number one generally where you CANNOT do any concious physical movement? [19:11] <@Serenity> but i find remembering goals to be difficult in this stage.... like I don't even think about my goals still... i just play around with the dream [19:11] <quorthonafull> Like watching a movie [19:11] <@Serenity> smushy... hmmm... i can still move i guess... with my dream body [19:11] <@Serenity> but i can't deviate from it's path [19:11] <@Serenity> or do you mean you feel rooted in place? [19:11] <smushy> Okay. Thank you. [19:12] == Solomon [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:12] <Solomon> What'd I miss? [19:12] <Solomon> Phone was acting funny [19:12] <@Serenity> (will continue if you're still typing) [19:12] <smushy> No, but more like, I can have commentary on the dreams (mentally), but won't be able to actually control my dream body. I'm just WATCHING the dream. Playing no real part, but able to have opinions about the things I see in the dream. [19:12] <smushy> Does that make sense? [19:13] <stjimmy> I think that adjusts to her description quite well [19:13] <@Serenity> smushy... yeah, that's what i call a level one [19:13] <@Serenity> 4/5 I'm fully aware that I dream and of the location and state of my physical body; also remember most knowledge from waking life, at least as it relates to goals that I had set for my lucid dreams. [19:13] <smushy> Sorry, I had to take a few pills for a surgery, so I might be sounding a little loopy. [19:13] <@Serenity> 4 - the goals start coming in... logic feels a lot clearer [19:14] <Marlowe> Lucidity levels of being aware. 1/5 if liek watching a movie. You know you're in a dream but you can't do anything about it. 2/3 is you can choose do a task (tekekinesis, etc) but you still follow the dream plot. 3/5 isyou can choose to follow the dream script or not. Does that help Solomon? [19:14] <@Serenity> and finally, 5/5 I'm aware of myself as an integrated whole, at least on level with how I would be during a waking focus. Thinking, feeling, creating aspects of self are working as a unified whole. Extraordinary (even for dream reality) abilities and experiences often manifest. [19:14] <AstralFae18> wow o_o [19:14] <@Serenity> Again... the scale is a bit subjective and personal [19:14] <Marlowe> Interesting...I'm usually a 3/5 [19:15] <AstralFae18> same here [19:15] <smushy> Lucky people. [19:15] <@Serenity> for me, i tend to feel the need to quantify my experience [19:15] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:15] <@Serenity> I vary between 2's and 4's usually [19:15] <smushy> So, I'm guessing that the higher the number is on the scale, the more vivid and easily remembered the dreams are? [19:15] <Marlowe> Quantitative > Qualitative all day haha [19:15] <@Serenity> smushy - yes [19:15] <stjimmy> Im alwyas on 1 when i do induced lds [19:16] <stjimmy> but ive been to 4 in spontaneous lds [19:16] <@Serenity> stjim, i hope i can help with that, then [19:16] <stjimmy> k -) [19:16] <@Serenity> so... i feel the scale is a bit important too, cos before i discovered it, i was writing off a lot of 1's as normal dreams [19:16] <smushy> I have only had two LD's. They would rate a .5 on the Ed Kelog scale... [19:17] <@Serenity> but i feel like by accepting my 1's as lucid, and by analysing the levels, and by understanding "okay, why was that a one?" it helped me understand HOW i recognised the dreamstate, which led to recognising it more and more [19:17] <@Serenity> or, increasing my rate of lucidity [19:17] <Vesterguard> Interesting [19:18] <Marlowe> QUESTION! So analyzing WHY your previous dreams were lower on the scale helps to increase vividness in the future? [19:18] <@Serenity> it doesn't necessarily increase vividness, but it helps me recognize subtle dream qualities [19:18] <smushy> I think she meant just analyzing which number on the scale helped increase the chances of the numbers increasing. [19:19] <Marlowe> oh ok [19:19] <smushy> Or that.' [19:19] <@Serenity> like for instance, a dream sign for me is that i don't feel my body [19:19] <@Serenity> so when i finally learned that feeling, i started recognizing it more [19:19] <quorthonafull> cool [19:19] <jessie1203> hmm [19:19] <@Serenity> and sometimes, in a level one, that's my only indicator [19:20] <@Serenity> but sometimes, it can trigger something in my head... no body feeling -> this is a dream (knowledge) -> this is a dream! (realization) [19:20] <smushy> QUESTION! Is it possible to realize you are a level one during a level one dream? Or is it not possible, since your logic isn't all there? [19:20] <stjimmy> sorry got to run [19:20] <@Serenity> it's okay jimmy [19:20] <smushy> Sorry for all the questions. I'm a fresh newb. [19:20] <stjimmy> can u send me log later? [19:21] == stjimmy [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:21] <@Serenity> it's okay smushy ummm it's a hard question... i don't think i've ever thought to myself "oh yay, i'm watching a dream, but i can't do anything!" that's not really what goes on in my head [19:22] <@Serenity> it's more like just knowing that what i'm seeing is a dream... like watching a TV show or a movie [19:22] <smushy> So you can't really transition from one level to another by recognizing what type of dream it is? [19:22] <@Serenity> sometimes yes, sometimes no [19:22] <Marlowe> Indeed. In conjuction to smushy's comment, often I was in a level 1 dream, and when I woke up, I couldn't believe I didn't I didn't recognize I was in a dream because there were so many obvious Dreamsigns...it made me made D: [19:22] <smushy> Generally, it's easier to analyze after the dream. That makes sense. [19:22] <@Serenity> that's one of the fantastic things about lucid dreams... they're so different and unusual [19:22] <quorthonafull> Yes [19:23] <@Serenity> each time [19:23] <smushy> My dreams have toned down A LOT since I have been trying (and failing) to lucid dream. It's kind of sad, but at least it is having SOME effect on me. [19:23] <@Serenity> hmm... let me try to think of some recent examples [19:24] <theking> For me [19:24] <theking> it was the opposite [19:24] <@Serenity> Okay... a good level one I had... I was in a community hall, i recognized my ex and thought to myself, "wow, i'm so impressed by the quality of his features the dream has created!" [19:24] <@Serenity> i went about the dream helping set up for this dinner, visited some events around the hall [19:24] <theking> I tried to induce first at like 13, and the dreams started becoming more intense, but started altering so I couldn't figure the signs different from real life [19:25] <@Serenity> i was lucid the entire time, but i wasn't lucid enough to go off and do my own thing [19:25] <@Serenity> just lucid enough to know i was watching a dream [19:25] <smushy> Lucky. To both of you. I like crazy creative dreams. [19:25] <@Serenity> so a level 2 i had... [19:25] <theking> for me, it got weird, I'd have sleep paralysis more often, and just not sleep, no idea if it was related [19:25] <@Serenity> one of my sailor moon dreams, lol [19:26] <theking> haha [19:26] <@Serenity> i usually control the spells i decide to use [19:26] <AstralFae18> aww nice! [19:26] <@Serenity> but i don't stop and think "i should try to dream share" [19:26] <@Serenity> but i make my decisions and control the dream based on the plot [19:26] <smushy> QUESTION! This might be getting ahead of myself, but what about dreams where you aren't a character? It's more like a third person perspective to a story of other characters? [19:27] <smushy> You can answer after you go through the examples, sorry. [19:27] <@Serenity> smushy - when i'm just me and i realize i'm dreaming, those tend to be a level 4 or something (for me), cos i'm not distracted by a plot [19:27] <@Serenity> and i get distracted easily! [19:27] <Marlowe> If a may, I can answer smushy's question kind of. Oftentimes I'm third person, then I see a dream sign, then I "transform" into a body once I realize I'm dreaming. Its hard tho [19:28] <@Serenity> okay so level 3 - realized i was dreaming, and thought "sweet, i'm dreaming! let's go fly and blow things up!" [19:28] <Marlowe> Yup I was definately a level 3 two nights ago [19:28] <smushy> So is it not possible to become a character or fully lucid if you are just a third-(invisible) person watching the dream? [19:28] <smushy> Oh, so it is possible according to Marlowe. Thanks, Marlowe. [19:29] <@Serenity> level 4 - i had a dream where i realized it was a dream, and i just walked out of the room i was in. I remembered a task of the month and wanted to get 'er done, so i did [19:29] <Marlowe> @smushy I did in my third lucid [19:29] <Marlowe> no prob [19:29] <@Serenity> level 5 - this are strange... i think i've had maybe one of these in my life [19:29] <@Serenity> these* [19:29] <@Serenity> i became lucid and it was like being awake, it really was [19:30] <@Serenity> stable environment, perfect control [19:30] <AstralFae18> ohh [19:30] <@Serenity> it was like i knew i was dreaming, but i forgot i was asleep in bed, if that makes any sense [19:30] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Is there anything we can do that could help us achieve a level 5? [19:30] <cardeal> wwant to have a vunch of those [19:30] <@Akono> practice [19:30] <@Serenity> Marlowe i actually don't know i've never found a way to control the level [19:31] <@Serenity> i'm going to go with akono on this one [19:31] <cardeal> *bunch [19:31] <Marlowe> Maybe take the extra time to really stabilize the dream when your at like a level 2 or 3 stage? [19:31] <@Serenity> i guess, WILDs tend to produce more 5's [19:31] <@Akono> depending on what you're going for...try to immerser yourself in that goal during waking life. [19:31] <Marlowe> dangit [19:31] <smushy> QUESTION! Do level 5 dreams make it more difficult to forget you are dreaming? I read somewhere that you must constantly remind yourself you are dreaming because its possible to lose that mindset and drift back into a normal, non lucid, dream. [19:31] <Marlowe> WILDs excite me too much [19:32] <@Serenity> I haven't experienced 5 a lot... but i think the potential lies in any level (to lose your awareness) [19:32] <smushy> make it more difficult to remember **** [19:32] <smushy> not, forget. [19:33] <theking> QUESTION! [19:33] <smushy> Oh, okay. By the way, I wasn't cussing, I use the star (*) to correct myself. [19:33] <theking> Can you elaborate on WILD technique? I'm not familiar with terms [19:33] <@Serenity> like when i'm lucid, i keep a running track of events in my head as i go... helps remind me that i'm dreaming [19:33] <smushy> Wake Initiated Lucid Dream. [19:33] <@Serenity> theking a WILD is that ^^ [19:33] <@Serenity> i'm a slow typer [19:33] <Marlowe> lol 1 - Smushy, 0 Serenity ;P [19:34] <smushy> Woo! [19:34] <theking> I know what it stands for, but the technique confuses me [19:34] <@Serenity> we'll get to techniques another day, but what it means is a conscious shift between being awake and dreaming [19:34] <theking> okay [19:34] <@Akono> going from the waking state directly into a lucid dreaming state with full awareness. [19:34] <theking> thanks [19:34] <quorthonafull> It's great, but hard to achieve for most people [19:34] <@Serenity> alright, so moving on, cos i have 30 mins to cover a huge topic [19:34] <Marlowe> Spped type [19:35] <Marlowe> *Speed [19:35] <@Serenity> (i will also be sticking around after class to answer questions) [19:35] <@Serenity> this ios me speed typing, you don't want i :p [19:35] <@Serenity> see? [19:35] <Vesterguard> hehe [19:35] <smushy> You are going to see a lot of me. ;-] [19:35] <AstralFae18> XD [19:35] <@Serenity> lol, it's alright, smushy [19:35] <cardeal> nooooo were doomed [19:36] <Marlowe> lol anyways, continue Serenity ;P [19:36] <@Serenity> okay so it's very, very handy to know where your dreams come from, or how they are created, to learn how to recognize dream signs and abnormalities and such [19:36] <@Serenity> The first topic is called Day Residue... there is a VERY handy video on Day Residue in the dream tube, by the way [19:37] <@Serenity> I'll find the link after class [19:37] <Vesterguard> super [19:37] <smushy> Visual Learning FTW [19:37] <@Serenity> Day Residue is essentially the day's events that seep into your dreams [19:37] <@Serenity> like for me, i work too much, so i dream about work a lot [19:37] <Marlowe> lol Day Residue...I dreamed I had shrimp for dinner one lucid, and I had shrimp for life in RL [19:37] <cardeal> I seem to have them lately [19:37] <@Serenity> or i might see a friend that day, and dream about her that night [19:38] <@Serenity> sometimes, it doesn't have to be an event THAT DAY, but something that just might be bugging you [19:38] <cardeal> and what about lucid dreaming books without noticing that you were dreaming? xD [19:38] <smushy> I sometimes have Dream Debris. [19:38] <@Serenity> like you're going through a rough patch with a friend, so it manifests in dreams [19:38] <@Serenity> cardeal, umm bad luck? [19:39] <AstralFae18> XD hahaha [19:39] <cardeal> indeed "frustratuion" [19:39] <Marlowe> Tough [19:39] <cardeal> *frustration [19:39] <cardeal> its dark here.. [19:39] <@Serenity> you could try to mantra to yourself to recognize the book, perhaps [19:39] <@Serenity> if it's been happening a lot lately [19:40] <cardeal> that happened because I ordered ETWOLD beforo sleeping xD [19:40] <@Serenity> or, as you're going back to sleep, imagine yourself recognizing the book as you're falling asleep [19:40] <Marlowe> lol [19:40] <@Serenity> which is a MILD [19:40] <@Serenity> alright, second topic, and my fave - schemas [19:40] <@Serenity> schemas are like... laws of order [19:41] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Would it be beneficial to go over the day you've had in your head before going to bed so your more prone to recognize day residue in your dream and became lucid? [19:41] <@Serenity> but are sometimes very nonsensical [19:41] <@Serenity> Marlowe, yes, or keeping an awake journal to record the day's events! [19:41] <Marlowe> k [19:41] <smushy> Wouldn't that just be an oridnary journal? [19:41] <@Serenity> also, it's said that performing many reality checks throughout the day may seep into your day residue [19:41] <@Serenity> smushy yes [19:41] <Vesterguard> Depends on what you intend it to be [19:42] <@Serenity> technicalities [19:42] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:42] <@Serenity> schemas can be seen like universe laws too [19:42] <@Serenity> your brain creates them as a frame for plot, in a way [19:42] <@Serenity> so, in my case... my sailor moon universe [19:43] <Marlowe> lol [19:43] <smushy> In my case, Planet Orange. [19:43] <quorthonafull> lol [19:43] <@Serenity> in my dream, i am sailor moon, the things that happen happen in that universe and are NORMAL to that universe [19:43] <@Serenity> which also makes it hard to catch whether it's a dream [19:43] <cardeal> Hmm or in my case random reallife things... my dreams are so boring, so normal [19:43] <@Serenity> biggest reason: at night, when we sleep, the part of our brains that controls logic, turns off [19:44] <@Serenity> when we dream, our brains follow schema logic with blind faith [19:44] <smushy> Good. Logic sucks. [19:44] <quorthonafull> "my dreams are so boring, so normal" best quote ever [19:44] <cardeal> hehe [19:44] <cardeal> really [19:44] <quorthonafull> I have the same problem [19:45] <@Serenity> schemas are why it can be hard to recognize dreaming, is what i'm getting at, here... but you can train yourself to recognize it, too [19:45] <quorthonafull> But sometimes, I've managed to do some funny things [19:45] <Marlowe> *Grabs Popcorn* [19:45] <@Serenity> they are also amazing for dream control, which is why i like them so much [19:45] <smushy> How can you train yourself to recongnize it? [19:45] <@Serenity> but that's anaother class [19:45] <cardeal> I want to knoew! [19:45] <cardeal> awwwwwww [19:45] <@Serenity> well, like for me, i dream about sailor moon a lot [19:46] <smushy> QUESTION! How can you train yourself to recognize it? [19:46] <@Serenity> so by reminding myself to reality check to all things sailor moon related [19:46] <smushy> Oh, okay. [19:46] <Marlowe> Ahh, so your dream sign is anything Sailor Moonish? [19:46] <@Serenity> it's one of them [19:47] <smushy> QUESTION? How do you learn what your schema is? I don't seem to have a specific theme or emotion in my dreams... [19:47] <@Serenity> hmmm...schemas are anything, really [19:47] <@Serenity> schema could be dreams mirroring real life [19:47] <Marlowe> I hate those dreams >.< [19:47] <@Serenity> in real life, you can't fly, so you might find it difficult [19:47] <@Serenity> but there are ways around that [19:48] <Marlowe> hmm do tell [19:48] <@Serenity> and i'll tell you that... in another class [19:48] <@Serenity> cos that's all dream control [19:48] <Marlowe> Ahhh whatta tease lol [19:48] <@Serenity> which is that last class [19:48] <smushy> I have dreams of little girls getting kidnapped by delusional poets and the little girl ends up killing him. I'm so screwed up... [19:48] <@Serenity> alright next up! [19:48] <@Serenity> faulty logic! [19:49] <@Serenity> goes along with schemas, kind of [19:49] <@Serenity> because your logical brain shuts off when you dream, your dreaming brain readily excepts pink elephants and floating dreams [19:49] <@Serenity> it'll come up with reasons for them [19:50] <@Serenity> like one time, i realized i was naked... i thought to myself, "oh, i'm strutting around naked, i must be dreaming." [19:50] <@Serenity> and my brain said, "no - you're awake" [19:50] <Marlowe> Hmm, can't you use that same logic to summon objects - giving reasons for your brain that they're there? [19:50] <Vesterguard> please say you were actually awake! ^^ [19:50] <smushy> schemas: acceptance for oddness. fault logic: reasoning for why the oddness is accepted. correct? [19:50] <@Serenity> and i'm all like, "how am i awake, i'm walking around naked?" [19:51] <@Serenity> brain says, "Oh, there's a good reason for it" and then trumped me by waking me up :S [19:51] <@Serenity> smushy, yes [19:51] <cardeal> That kinda hapened to me last night :S [19:51] <Marlowe> Haha then you were like, "Oh that's right, I was headed for Marlowe's house" haha jk [19:51] <AstralFae18> dumbo! [19:51] <@Serenity> or... i used a magical ability and thought "now why can i do that?" [19:52] <@Serenity> my dream said "you're an apprentice" [19:52] <smushy> You shouldve ate an orange as soon as you started questioning why you were naked. [19:52] <@Serenity> which leads into the next one... false memories! [19:52] <smushy> It's what I would have done. [19:52] <@Serenity> false memories are sometimes what i like to call "plot set-up" [19:52] <@Serenity> smushy, i bet you never get sick [19:53] <nobodycares> I had this dream where I took a $9, $27, and $4 out of an ATM machine. My rational was "It's in Washington, DC, of course it doesn't make sense. Bills are weird in this city." [19:53] <cardeal> lol [19:53] <Marlowe> haha he's Scurvy free [19:53] <smushy> QUESTION! Can false memories be a factor that create your faulty logic? [19:53] <@Serenity> false memories are those plot fillers your dreams give you when something doesn't add up [19:53] <@Serenity> smushy, yeah [19:53] <@Serenity> nobody, awww xD [19:54] <Vesterguard> Question: Do false memories have a deja vu qualia to them? [19:54] <smushy> Okay, thank you Serenity! I'll try to tone down on the questions. [19:54] <@Serenity> like, i once saw this girl run up to me and call me by name... and i'm like, "who the hell is she? .... oh! she's my friend from college!" [19:54] <nobodycares> QUESTION! I would like to induce dreaming through reality checks, awareness, and find out I'm dreaming completely in the dream. I only sleep 6 hours a night so WILD isn't an option. Does one have to do reality checks every 5 minutes to get into the pattern of Lucid Dreaming? I don't want this controlling my life. [19:54] <@Akono> the prefrontal cortex isn't active during dreaming....and it's what effects all of our "executive decisions" ie telling the difference between good bad conflicting thoughts...ect. [19:54] <@Serenity> vester, hmm, i dunno...it doesn't feel like that to me, but it's not to say it can't for others [19:54] <@Akono> when we become lucid, it' activates. [19:54] <@Serenity> thanks akono ph.d [19:55] <@Serenity> nobody... that's lengthy, hang on [19:55] <@Serenity> may i answer this one after class and i'll include it in the chat log? [19:56] <@Serenity> just cos i have 4 mins to get through the rest of dream content [19:56] <nobodycares> sure [19:56] <smushy> nobodycares: I just started doing it when something strange happens or when I space out and become unusually aware of all the things in my surroundings. [19:57] <@Serenity> another dream content subject is dreams being affected by strong emotions, lust, or fear (amongst other things) [19:57] <jessie1203> yes!! i wanna know about htat [19:57] <jessie1203> *that [19:57] <@Serenity> going a bit freudian for a bit [19:57] <@Serenity> for all you psych majors [19:57] <@Serenity> the id, ego and superego [19:58] <theking> lol [19:58] <cardeal> damn i was in fear a while ago and still a bit :S [19:58] <nobodycares> smushy: But if your logical part of the brain isn't active how can you tell when something strange happens? I did these reality checks with holding my nose for a while...A lot of the time I didn't realize I was dreaming until I did it, even with no reason for it at all. [19:58] <Marlowe> Lust huh...that might as well be one of my dream signs >.> [19:58] <@Serenity> ego = creates conscious awareness, it analyses what is going on and mediates between the superego and the id. [19:58] <AstralFae18> mine too >> [19:58] <@Serenity> superego = creates mental boundaries, keeping you from doing things that are socially unacceptable and taboo. [19:59] <@Serenity> id = is purely instinctual and runs off of emotion and primal needs. [19:59] <@Serenity> The ego and the superego tend to dominate your waking life, but they are logical, and are focused around the logical centre of the brain, which is shut off. [19:59] <@Serenity> so.... what that leaves us with, is our friend, the id [19:59] <Marlowe> haha plently of that in dreams I guess [20:00] <@Serenity> so, the id, not having the boundaries of the ego and superego, tends to experience things fully [20:00] <smushy> nobodycares: I don't like to think of it as completely inactive (dead); I like to think of it as sleeping. Anything strange will disturb its sleep and perform what you normally do in waking life when something strange occurs: a reality check. [20:00] <@Serenity> which leads to emotions feeling so much stronger in dreams [20:00] <@Serenity> smushy, it's sleeping, yeah [20:00] <smushy> I'm an extreme beginner, but those are just my thoughts on the matter. We'll see what Serenity has to say about it, later. [20:00] <@Serenity> it's overworked [20:01] <cardeal> omg he is guarding a ton! [20:01] <jessie1203> but still, the id need the logical part from the other 2 dudes to make you realize you're in a dream [20:01] <jessie1203> no? [20:01] <@Serenity> so, more id, briefly... so emotions are stronger. lust = Because lust and the primal urge to mate is strong in dreams, sexual temptations may arise very frequently. Many lucid dreams are transformed into lucid sex dreams because of the overwhelming desire to have sex. This is also due to the unrestrained id. [20:01] <quorthonafull> Eros and Thanatos [20:02] <@Serenity> well, as akono mentioned, when we become lucid, the prefrontal cortex turns back on [20:02] <jessie1203> oh ok ok [20:02] <nobodycares> I deny sex in dreams, what is wrong with me? lol? [20:02] <@Serenity> it probably happens just that bit before, because we usually use logic to deduce that we're dreaming [20:02] <jessie1203> i keep havin ugly dreams.. like ppl dying and stuff like that [20:02] <Marlowe> I think I'm wagin a war with my primal id right now for dream control haha [20:02] <smushy> I have never even dreamt of sex. :-( [20:02] <jessie1203> :-( [20:03] <cardeal> me neither [20:03] <@Serenity> fear, another id thingy = One of the most powerful emotions is fear and like the other emotions, it is amplified in dreams. That's why nightmares can be so frightening. Not only is the fear amplified in nightmares, but many schemas are all linked by fear so things that frighten you will constantly show up. [20:03] <@Serenity> fears can also manifest from anxiety [20:04] <@Serenity> like say if you're in a play or a show and you're a nervous performer [20:04] <Marlowe> In other words, never watch a horror movie right before you attempt LDing? [20:04] <smushy> Great. My friends know me as the anxious paranoid one. [20:04] <@Serenity> or you have to give a class presentation in school [20:04] <cardeal> I really hate nightmares, had a ton when I was a kid, and speaking no, my sister woke up screaming [20:04] <cardeal> *now [20:04] <@Akono> lets keep the side chatter to a minimum [20:04] <@Serenity> Marlowe I can't watch cop dramas before i go to bed [20:04] <quorthonafull> Or, watch a horror movie and try to recognize the upcoming nightmare [20:04] <@Serenity> okay, last point [20:05] <nobodycares> I had nightmares when I was a kid. I was then able to have lucid dreams at will, as well as wake myself up from them. I had LD's every night for a couple of years... now I can't have any. [20:05] <@Serenity> Attention! [20:05] <smushy> Agreed, Akono. Everyone, shush! [20:05] <nobodycares> ok [20:05] <@Serenity> meaning, our dreams require attention for existence [20:05] <@Serenity> like for instance... i'm lucid, and my mother appears [20:05] == fakado [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [20:05] <@Serenity> i don't really want to deal with my dear mum, at the moment [20:05] <fakado> Hey [20:05] <@Serenity> so i turn away and ignore her [20:06] <fakado> Am I too late? D: [20:06] <@Serenity> she disappears [20:06] <@Serenity> fakado, yeah [20:06] <jessie1203> hmm [20:06] <quorthonafull> too much [20:06] <smushy> There will be a chat log posted, fakado. [20:06] == Alex [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [20:06] <fakado> Ah okay [20:06] <fakado> That's a relief [20:06] == Alex [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [20:06] == mode/#DVA [+y Alex] by irc.dreamviews.com [20:06] == mode/#DVA [+o Alex] by DreamBot [20:06] <smushy> I think. [20:06] <fakado> Some website changed the times to making this into 6pm apparently or something [20:07] <fakado> But then I went and found a pm like.. 5 mins ago D: [20:07] <theking> Daylight savings time [20:07] <@Serenity> It helps to try to remember that, when you're dreaming, if you get level 2... you MIGHT be able to remind yourself "oh right, these things are dreaming, if i ignore them, i can focus on my own things" [20:07] <theking> probably got standard [20:07] <cardeal> interesting [20:08] <@Serenity> like... sometimes, i'm prevented on raising my lucidity because i'm being chased by something [20:08] <smushy> QUESTION! Using your example, woudn't ignoring your mother push you away from the dream state? You said your dreams need attention... [20:08] <@Serenity> smushy, you can just walk away or focus on something else in the dream [20:08] <cardeal> if you focus on another things no [20:08] <smushy> So as long as you focus on SOMETHING in your dream? [20:08] <@Serenity> like... this friend of mine walked through the door and i didn't want to deal with her, so i walked into a different room and she didn't follow [20:09] <@Serenity> smushy, yes, you should always focus on something in your dream [20:09] <@Serenity> it may destabilize if you don [20:09] <smushy> Okay. Thank you. [20:09] <@Serenity> don't* [20:09] <Marlowe> So just have something to focus on at all times? [20:09] <jessie1203> but if you focus TOO much.. sometimes it wakes you up [20:09] <smushy> Can it just be a thought? Or does it have to be an actual object in the dream? [20:09] <jessie1203> it happens to me anyways [20:10] <smushy> Like a door, necklace, ect. [20:10] <@Serenity> in fact, it's a widely liked technique that if you interact with the dream environment, it helps stabilize the dream [20:10] <@Serenity> sec... [20:10] <smushy> I know that I'll be touching everything in sight if I get lucid. [20:10] <@Serenity> honestly, if i don't want to deal with something in my dream, i just walk away from i [20:10] <@Serenity> it [20:10] == Linkster17 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [20:10] <@Serenity> I'll fly off somewhere [20:11] <smushy> Okay. [20:11] <@Serenity> or walk through a door [20:11] <Linkster17> did i miss class? [20:11] <smushy> Ooo flying. [20:11] <@Serenity> yes [20:11] <@Serenity> that's all attention means [20:11] <jessie1203> QUESTION! how you u interact with the environment without taking it too seriously and waking up? [20:11] <@Serenity> it exists if you focus on it [20:11] <Linkster17> im sorry, i just checked now, i havent been on dreamviews much lately [20:11] <@Serenity> jessie... hmm... [20:12] <jessie1203> idk how else to explain it [20:12] <@Serenity> i find that the more serious i am, the better it is [20:12] <@Serenity> like... my last lucid, i prolonged the dream by feeling the roughness of the wood on a door [20:12] <@Serenity> feeling the coolness of glass, perhaps [20:12] <jessie1203> just focus on it [20:12] <@Serenity> the scent of the wind [20:12] <Marlowe> QUESTION! Say you want to meditate in your dream. Would focusing on breathing alone be anough to keep the dream stabilized? [20:13] <jessie1203> i see [20:13] <@Serenity> Marlowe, i haven't tried meditating yet, in dream [20:13] <Marlowe> oh ok [20:13] <@Serenity> i would think that breathing would be a good thing to focus on [20:13] <@Serenity> the floor beneath you [20:13] <fakado> I don't seem to be able to lucid dream. I have dreams more often now.. But they end up being weird. I do RL's everyday but even though in my last dream I had mushrooms grow out of me after I touched a bowl of icecream. I wasn't able to realise it's a dream. [20:14] <fakado> Any tips? :\ [20:14] <@Serenity> that's another lengthy question hang on [20:14] <Vesterguard> @Marlowe.. I woke myself up from my last lucid by closing my eyes and focus on my breath [20:14] <Vesterguard> so might only be handy for some [20:14] <@Serenity> okay... so class is officially over, but i'm still arund for chats and questions nobodycares's question about reality checking... [20:17] <@Serenity> alright, tip 1 [20:17] == Vesterguard [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [20:17] <@Serenity> pick some target to reality check to [20:18] <@Serenity> it could be, everytime you see yourself in a mirror [20:18] <@Serenity> everytime you see your pet [20:18] <@Serenity> everytime you see a blue cat [20:18] <@Serenity> car [20:18] <@Serenity> not cat [20:18] <jessie1203> lol [20:18] == cardeal [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [20:18] <fakado> :p [20:18] <@Serenity> The ETWOLD had some great ideas [20:19] <smushy> blue cat lol [20:19] <@Serenity> like pressing buttons, turning on the TV [20:19] <Linkster17> the ETWOLD? [20:19] <jessie1203> kinda hard RC... blue cat!? [20:19] <@Serenity> exploring the world of lucid dreaming [20:19] == theking [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [20:19] <Linkster17> lol, u r dreaming if u see a blue cat [20:19] <smushy> *looks up blue cat on craigslist* [20:19] <@Serenity> it's a book on how to lucid dream, written by stephen laberge [20:19] <jessie1203> lol [20:19] <jessie1203> xD [20:19] <Linkster17> ahh ok [20:20] <@Serenity> or watching the new smarties commercial [20:20] <@Serenity> ohhh right, american smarties aren't like canadian ones! [20:20] <nobodycares> ok, so pick a target and focus on that in your dreams [20:20] <@Serenity> there's a blue cat in that commercial [20:20] <Linkster17> lol [20:20] <smushy> Would you suggest doing a RC when something strange happens? [20:20] <Linkster17> i would [20:20] <nobodycares> This really takes intent and persistance, and for some reason I don't seem to want it bad. But I want to want it badly, if that makes sense [20:20] <@Serenity> nobodycares, do you notice if you have any dream signs that occur a lot in your waking life? [20:20] <@Serenity> smushy, yes, but MORE than that [20:21] <Linkster17> same here nobodycares lol [20:21] <@Serenity> you should do a reality check everytime you think about one [20:21] <@Serenity> and it should be very involved [20:21] <fakado> I find it hard to RC.. I mean come on.. Mushrooms growing out of me and I couldn't figure out it's a dream [20:21] <fakado> The mushrooms looked abit mutated [20:21] <smushy> What do you mean by "very involved"? [20:21] <@Serenity> like "what did i do 5 minutes ago? what does that sign say? does where i am make LOGICAL sense?" [20:22] <nobodycares> no dreamsigns here [20:22] <smushy> So it the RC doesn't need to be persistent? You can be a little free at what your RC is? [20:22] <@Serenity> reality checks NEED to be used in a way to prove to yourself, why am i not dreaming right now? [20:22] <nobodycares> Perhaps hotels and guns, but none that I see in my waking life (I usually am armed and at foreign places in my dreams) [20:22] <smushy> You don't need to read the same sign each time you reality check. [20:22] <@Serenity> smushy, my reality check is testing if my body has weight, or aches [20:22] <@Serenity> so yeah, they're pretty flexible [20:22] <Linkster17> <fakado> I find it hard to RC.. I mean come on.. Mushrooms growing out of me and I couldn't figure out it's a dream.* i can beat that, saw a rip in the sky that was a portal with lots of dark colors and didnt think about doing a rc [20:23] <fakado> Maybe an alien attack.. never know [20:23] <fakado> Or portal storm :p [20:23] <@Serenity> i'll go over reality checks in depth on thursday [20:23] <fakado> But mutated mushrooms growing out of me [20:23] <fakado> Creepy stuff there [20:23] <smushy> I parked my car in a giant tree growing in the middle of street with two giant amazon women sitting in it. [20:23] <Linkster17> lol [20:23] <smushy> and I don't even drive. [20:23] <@Serenity> alright, so TIP 2 on reality checking more often - make your day about all-day awareness [20:23] <smushy> Or own a car. [20:23] <fakado> My body was itching all day long after I woke up and wrote the dream down [20:24] <@Serenity> like for instance, try to constantly question the world around you [20:24] <smushy> As a paranoid freak, I'm a master at that! [20:25] <@Serenity> what's happening around you, and does it make logical sense? [20:25] <@Serenity> what are you doing at this moment? why? does it make sense? what were you doing 5 minutes ago? [20:25] <@Serenity> and get a feel for what being awake feels like, because dreaming actually feels quiite different [20:26] <Linkster17> yep, its better lol [20:26] <jessie1203> [20:26] <jessie1203> cool! [20:26] <@Serenity> tip 3 - for the memory impaired - set an alarm for every hour, or 30 mins or so [20:26] <jessie1203> YES!! [20:26] <jessie1203> ME ME! [20:26] <Linkster17> lol [20:27] == nobodycares [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [20:27] <@Serenity> when you hear your alarm, ask yourself the same questions [20:27] <@Serenity> why are you not dreaming right now? [20:27] <@Serenity> what's happening? [20:27] <@Serenity> where are you? [20:27] == nobodycares [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [20:27] <@Serenity> can you read signs? do they say the same thing when you look away and back again? [20:27] <@Serenity> what time does your watch say? [20:27] <@Serenity> check it again [20:27] <@Serenity> and again [21:03] <@Serenity> Day Residue = Lucid Dreaming #6 - Day Residue in Dreams [21:04] <smushy> Yay blue links! [21:04] <smushy> Thank you, Serenity! [21:04] <@Serenity> faulty logic = Lucid Dreaming #7 - Faulty Logic in Dreams [21:04] <@Serenity> [21:05] <smushy> woah, it's like Christmas. [21:05] <@Serenity> and false memories = Lucid Dreaming #8 - False Remembrance in Dreams

[Serenity]

Spoiler for Class two chat log: [19:08] <@Serenity> Alrighty, well, I'll get it rolling then. Thanks for coming, guys... tonight, will be Dream journals, dream signs and recall [19:08] <Marlowe> Hmm, where's lucky person #5? [19:08] == stjimmy [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:08] <@Serenity> jimmy! [19:08] <Marlowe> Hahaha [19:08] <stjimmy> Sorry I'm late [19:08] <@Serenity> just made it [19:08] <Marlowe> I called it [19:08] <quorthonafull> Hi Jimmy [19:08] <stjimmy> Hi there =) [19:08] <Marlowe> We had a good 2 minutes left [19:08] <stjimmy> ok, ok [19:08] <@Serenity> Dream journals... everyone in the course should have started theirs up by now, in the workbooks thread [19:08] <stjimmy> I did [19:09] <Marlowe> Indeed [19:09] <DawgBone> Yes [19:09] <AstralFae18> mhmm! [19:09] <quorthonafull> yes [19:09] <@Serenity> does anyone know why dream journals are so important? [19:09] <Marlowe> They increase your recall? [19:09] <@Serenity> yep [19:09] <Marlowe> And help you recognize dream signs? [19:09] <@Serenity> yep [19:09] <Marlowe> [19:09] <DawgBone> They give dreams importance [19:10] <Marlowe> Cus you want to remember that epic fight you had last night XD [19:10] <AstralFae18> XD! [19:10] <@Serenity> yes, they tend to DB [19:10] <@Serenity> and yes, Marlowe, that's why I love mine [19:10] <@Serenity> and these all add up to one thing [19:10] <stjimmy> Lucidty [19:11] <@Serenity> with better recall, knowing your dream signs, and also, placing importance on dreaming, it yes, helps improve lucidity [19:11] <@Serenity> i know i definitely have more lucid dreams because i keep a journal [19:11] <@Serenity> but i keep a journal because i don't want to forget them [19:12] <@Serenity> there is another use for journals that some people do [19:12] <@Serenity> they use it as a time keeper [19:12] <@Serenity> so, one would write down the time they went to sleep. when they take notes for the dreams, they note the time they wake up at [19:12] == solomon [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:12] <stjimmy> for wilding? [19:13] <Marlowe> YEah, I do that to learn more about my sleep cycles [19:13] <@Serenity> you can use it to judge for WILDing, yes [19:13] <@Serenity> learning about the sleep cycles in general [19:13] <solomon> Hello all [19:13] <Marlowe> Hola [19:13] <DawgBone> Hi [19:13] <quorthonafull> Hi [19:13] <@Serenity> note whether it was a natural wake up (without alarms and such), because that's a great time to do a WBTB combo [19:13] <Marlowe> QUESTION [19:13] <@Serenity> yes [19:14] <Marlowe> Is there any benefit to waking up natural vs. an alarm? [19:14] <@Serenity> i think it depends on the person [19:14] <Marlowe> k [19:14] <@Serenity> i find that alarms sometimes frighten me [19:14] <@Serenity> which kills recall a little [19:14] <Marlowe> true, true [19:15] <quorthonafull> yes [19:15] <@Serenity> however, a natural wake up tends to let you drift out of sleep, and begin to work on recall naturally [19:15] <@Serenity> which we will get to some recall techniques in a bit [19:15] <@Serenity> but that is to say alarms aren't bad [19:16] <@Serenity> but if there is a point during the night where you wake naturally, it means you've just come out of REM / finished a natural sleep cycle [19:16] <@Serenity> which is fantastic if you practice WILDs [19:16] <Marlowe> Personally, have you ever pulled off a CAN-WILD? [19:16] <@Serenity> nope [19:16] <stjimmy> I always wake 3 or 4 times per night, naturally [19:17] <stjimmy> but I always fall back asleep before I can try to WILD =( [19:17] <@Serenity> but i have DEILD'ed and done a couple of horrible regular WILDs [19:17] <solomon> I usually don't...but my sleep cycle right now is really irregular [19:17] <Marlowe> haha k [19:17] <stjimmy> I just have time to write something quick in my dj [19:17] <@Serenity> alrighty, so moving onto dream signs [19:17] <stjimmy> yeah, sry [19:17] <@Serenity> there are a few "universal" dream signs to watch out for [19:17] <@Serenity> these seem to happen in dreams for many people [19:18] <@Serenity> these are things like lights not working [19:18] <@Serenity> machinery doesn't operate properly [19:18] <@Serenity> elevators are a wacky trip [19:18] <Marlowe> Hmm, sounds fun [19:18] <AstralFae18> XD [19:18] <@Serenity> time tends to look weird, or it may change erratically when you look away and look back again [19:19] <@Serenity> text may be illegible, or also change when you double-take [19:19] <quorthonafull> I should be aware of these, my dreams tend to be too much boring and real life-ish [19:19] <@Serenity> hands look funny like too many fingers or not enough [19:19] <@Serenity> or you just might not have hands at all [19:20] <Marlowe> I'm too afriad to turn on the lights when I'm lucid because I always feel like something horrible is behind me [19:20] <@Serenity> i've seen my arms fade off at my wrists [19:20] <@Serenity> you may be interested in encountering and facing off with nightmares while lucid, marlowe [19:20] <Marlowe> Oh God... [19:21] <@Serenity> There are also many individual dream signs, which is obviously quite personal [19:21] <solomon> can't remember the last nightmare I had... [19:21] <quorthonafull> You could leran more abour yourself by facing Your nightmares [19:21] <stjimmy> yeah, lucidity during nightmares rules [19:21] <@Serenity> for me, it's usually people, locations, sailor moon [19:21] <stjimmy> you can finally defeat whatever is troubling you [19:21] <@Serenity> try not to veer too off-topic guys [19:21] <quorthonafull> ok [19:21] <stjimmy> sry =$ [19:21] <@Serenity> it makes the chat log a little convoluted [19:21] <Marlowe> My individual dream sign is interestingly two moons in the sky, which I created in my first lucid dream...Is that my individual one? [19:22] <@Serenity> it can be [19:22] <@Serenity> dream signs are things that tend to pop up very often in dreams [19:22] <@Serenity> you may see family members quite a bit [19:22] <@Serenity> or if you dream about certain locations a lot [19:22] <@Serenity> pets, people, places [19:22] <stjimmy> old school mates too [19:23] <DawgBone> So when you see a dream sign you should reality check? [19:23] <@Serenity> they can literally be anything but they are best determined if they pop up frequently [19:23] <@Serenity> DawgBone, yes! absolutely [19:23] <solomon> Harder done than said :/ [19:23] <@Serenity> one of the best RC's is if you have a dream sign that tends to pop up in real life [19:23] <@Serenity> like for me, my biggest dream sign is my mother [19:24] <@Serenity> she's in nearly every second dream, it seems [19:24] <Marlowe> So in my case, it would be best if I did an RC everytime I see the moon, RL or Dreaming? [19:24] <@Serenity> i also see her on a daily basis... so if i can remember to RC to her in real life, i might remember to in the dream [19:24] <@Serenity> which plays on that theory of day residue [19:24] <DawgBone> Marlowe, you should do two reality checks for two moons. :-) [19:25] <@Serenity> lol, yes, if the moon is a DS, absolutely check when you remember to see it [19:25] <Marlowe> ok...(Looks out window) [19:25] <quorthonafull> lol [19:25] <@Serenity> you should actually try to back your RC's up, like do 2 or 3 [19:26] <@Serenity> because one might fail [19:26] <Marlowe> k [19:26] <@Serenity> i'll cover those in depth another day [19:27] <@Serenity> dreams often tend to provide messages via metaphors or symbolism [19:27] <@Serenity> which can be considered a dream sign [19:27] <@Serenity> like, i dream about trains a lot [19:27] <@Serenity> but trains, to me, are often quite bad [19:28] <@Serenity> or... a dream sign for me is an amusement park [19:28] <@Serenity> which could be symbolizing a desire to relax, or perhaps I'm getting too distracted lately [19:28] <stjimmy> haha [19:29] <@Serenity> so you might find something like a dream dictionary very useful [19:29] *alex* har har har [19:29] <Marlowe> Dream Dictionary? [19:29] <@Serenity> it's a dictionary comprised of things, or symbols and it tells you what those symbols could mean [19:29] <AstralFae18> ohh [19:30] <Marlowe> Site? [19:30] <@Serenity> there are many sites [19:30] <@Serenity> google [19:30] <AstralFae18> i used to have one on a site i had D: i don't remember where i got it from [19:30] <Marlowe> ahh yes, google [19:30] <!Alex> lmgtfy? [19:30] <!Alex> ) [19:30] <@Serenity> i love that site [19:30] <!Alex> [19:30] <AstralFae18> hahaha XD [19:30] <Marlowe> [19:31] <@Serenity> anyways, getting back to it... recall [19:31] <@Serenity> i know some of you are experiencing some recall draughts at the moment [19:31] <@Serenity> it happens to the best of us [19:31] <Marlowe> That would be me.... [19:31] <AstralFae18> me too >< [19:31] <@Serenity> bugger, my chicken dried out [19:32] <AstralFae18> aww! XD [19:32] <@Serenity> the thing to remember is, don't stress over it! [19:32] <Marlowe> lmao [19:32] <solomon> I'm just lazy when I first wake up, so I don't write the dream down, then eventually end up forgetting it [19:32] <@Serenity> there are ways to bring recall back [19:32] <Marlowe> Do Tell.... [19:32] <@Serenity> first off, do you ever wake up knowing you've had a dream, but you just can't pull it out of your head? [19:32] <Marlowe> Heck yea [19:32] <AstralFae18> mhmm! [19:33] <quorthonafull> yes, today [19:33] <@Serenity> is there ever something from that that you remember? a colour or an emotion, perhaps? [19:33] <@Serenity> a room? [19:33] <@Serenity> furniture? [19:33] <Marlowe> hmm yes, like a Heat Seeking Missile... [19:33] <@Serenity> or even just that you know you had a dream, but you can't recall it [19:34] <@Serenity> all these things, you should write them down, regardless [19:34] <Marlowe> k [19:34] <@Serenity> it's getting your mind back into the swing of things, for whatever reason it might have fallen out [19:34] <@Serenity> so, generally, what i do, upon waking, is i go with whatever happens to be in my head [19:35] <quorthonafull> I lost the habit when I got the dry spell, like two weeks ago [19:35] <@Serenity> i make note of that scene and i keep making notes of things I remember until they stop [19:35] <@Serenity> sometimes, it's just the very last scene in the dream that i wake up with, so i can start to recall the dream backwards [19:35] <Marlowe> Same... [19:35] <quorthonafull> me too [19:36] <@Serenity> the thing to remember is... order isn't as important as getting as much notes out, first [19:36] <@Serenity> if you freak out over the order, or "that makes no sense" or such... you'll probably start forgetting details [19:37] <DawgBone> Right ... [19:37] <@Serenity> the other thing to do is to work on notes and recall as soon as possible after waking up [19:37] <@Serenity> try to lie still for a moment [19:37] <Marlowe> QUESTION [19:37] <@Serenity> yes [19:37] <Marlowe> What if you are doing a DEILD run, anything you can do for recall? [19:37] <@Serenity> ahhhh the DEILD vs. recall question [19:38] <Marlowe> [19:38] <quorthonafull> eternal enemies... [19:38] <@Serenity> well, that was a struggle for me, too [19:38] <AstralFae18> XD [19:38] <@Serenity> lets see... lets say your DEILD is successful [19:38] <AstralFae18> the "XD" was at the "eternal enemies..." comment btw D: not the struggle D: [19:38] <@Serenity> which it will be, because it's all state of mind [19:39] <quorthonafull> lol [19:39] <Marlowe> Right... [19:39] <@Serenity> so, you wake up, you DEILD, bang, you're back in the dream [19:39] <@Serenity> well, from my past experience with DEILDs, they can be rather unstable upon reentering [19:39] <Marlowe> Right, Right... [19:40] <@Serenity> so, you could take a few moments at the beginning of the dream to remind yourself of what you just woke up from [19:40] <AstralFae18> ohh [19:40] <Marlowe> ok [19:40] <@Serenity> i have read some people ask their subconscious for help in remembering the dream, which seems to work for them [19:41] <@Serenity> lets say the DEILD is unsuccessful... and you just fall back to sleep into a different dream [19:41] <Marlowe> Uhuh... [19:41] <@Serenity> it's a sacrifice [19:41] <@Serenity> you may remember it in your morning recall [19:42] <@Serenity> perhaps that dream shared a DS from another dream [19:42] <@Serenity> and so the rememberance may trigger the rememberance of the other dream (if that makes sense) [19:42] <stjimmy> Yeah that's happened to me [19:42] <DawgBone> Yes [19:42] <quorthonafull> me too [19:42] <@Serenity> you might completely forget the dream, but you encounter something during your day and BANG, the dream's back [19:43] <Marlowe> Yeah Yeah, I find that when I go throughout the day, if I encounter an object that reminds me of my dream, recal comes back [19:43] <Marlowe> Lol you beat me to it [19:43] <@Serenity> woot! fast typing for once [19:43] <stjimmy> haha =) [19:43] <@Serenity> which leads me to another recall point. use your dream signs! [19:43] <@Serenity> so another technique that i do if i seem to be struggling with memory is, i ask myself questions [19:44] <@Serenity> was it sailor moon related? [19:44] <@Serenity> was my mum there? [19:44] <Marlowe> lol [19:44] <@Serenity> was my pet there? [19:44] <@Serenity> i remember a colour, was it a car (because my DS might include cars) [19:44] <@Serenity> you dig? [19:44] <@Serenity> (i can;t believe i just used that ) [19:44] <quorthonafull> yes [19:44] <DawgBone> Yep [19:44] <Marlowe> Yea I dig [19:45] <stjimmy> haha =) me 2 [19:45] <AstralFae18> hahaha XD the nineties! [19:45] <@Serenity> so start going through a list of your common dream signs and see if it sparks a memory for you [19:46] <quorthonafull> was my computer turned on, with pr0n in the download list? (that happened to me the other night) [19:46] <@Serenity> perhaps there is something bothering you in waking life at the moment (ex school or work). ask yourself if you might have dreamed about that\ [19:46] <@Serenity> review your waking journal, if you keep one [19:46] <Marlowe> Would you recommend keeping a waking journal? [19:46] <@Serenity> absolutely [19:46] <@Serenity> there's no harm in one [19:47] <@Serenity> if it does nothing else other than help you sort out your thoughts from the day [19:47] <Marlowe> Saves your brain the effort eh [19:47] <@Serenity> i like it for the fact that i can say, "I'm writing my issues here, so I can focus on dreaming." [19:47] <@Serenity> cos for me, i'd prefer not to dream about work, hehe [19:48] == Linkster17 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:48] <@Serenity> hey link [19:48] <Linkster17> sorry im late again and hey [19:48] <quorthonafull> Hi link [19:48] <@Serenity> another tip that helped me [19:48] <@Serenity> i use a sleep mask [19:48] <@Serenity> i found that light tends to kill my recall [19:48] <@Serenity> it wakes me up too much, too soon [19:49] <@Serenity> a great recall killer is to start thinking about your day [19:49] <@Serenity> or TV shows, or ANYTHING that isn't your dream you just had [19:49] <@Serenity> so if you can minimize your distractions, a sleep mask is really, really great for that [19:50] <AstralFae18> ah i'm a little addicted to my sleep mask considering i do all my sleeping in the day time XD [19:50] == nobodycares [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:50] <@Serenity> also, if you HAVE to get up to turn off an alarm, snooze it, return to your bed, and get into the last position you just woke up from [19:50] <nobodycares> Dang I missed it! [19:50] <nobodycares> ugh [19:50] <@Serenity> still kinda going [19:50] <quorthonafull> Nobody cares (?) [19:51] <@Serenity> sometimes, it can trigger recall to return to your last sleeping position [19:51] <@Serenity> it's really important that if you want to start raising your recall, to leave yourself a good 10-15 minutes every morning devoted to it [19:51] <Marlowe> k [19:51] <nobodycares> Serenity do you ever meditate? Today I was meditating and went into Alpha Brain wave levels. I was very relaxed for about an hour (time flew by) and when I woke up I had memories of a dream, even though I don't think I ever entered one. [19:52] <@Serenity> i'll answer that in a momeny [19:52] <nobodycares> It was if I had consciousness the entire time but never left to go off in the dream world [19:52] <nobodycares> ok [19:52] <@Serenity> moment* [19:52] <Linkster17> dont worry nobodycares, i just showed up around 5 imnutes ago [19:52] <Linkster17> *minutes [19:52] <@Serenity> for the middle of the night, recall can be a bit different [19:53] <@Serenity> only dependant on how slow or fast you wake up [19:53] <@Serenity> and how good of a note-taker you are [19:53] <@Serenity> for me, my mid-night notes tend to be a line, or a short blurb on each scene [19:53] <@Serenity> i generally leave the full write up for the mornig [19:53] <@Serenity> morning* [19:53] <Marlowe> Word, I'm to sleepy to write down a lot at sight [19:54] <Marlowe> *night [19:54] <@Serenity> don't write too little, that you can't trigger any memory about the dream, but you don't have to write a novel on it, either [19:54] <Marlowe> Maybe just notes about major parts of the dream? [19:54] <@Serenity> however, there's something to be said about those phantom middle of the night notes [19:55] <quorthonafull> I write some lines, but then I can only read a few words [19:55] <@Serenity> like, i woke up once and found "obviously he thought my portals were worth something." [19:55] <DawgBone> Ha [19:55] <@Serenity> i have NO IDEA what that dream was about, now [19:55] <Marlowe> THats vague haha [19:55] <quorthonafull> lol [19:55] <AstralFae18> hahaha XD [19:55] <@Serenity> i didn't even remember writing the note when i woke up [19:56] <Linkster17> lol [19:56] <@Serenity> i have to admit, the random midnight notes are amusing [19:56] <@Serenity> but i try not to do them [19:56] <Marlowe> Bad Habits are so much fun huh? [19:56] <@Serenity> i'm just saying, you may experience them from time to time [19:57] <@Serenity> keep them... write them as part as your full write up [19:58] <@Serenity> that's actually about all i have for today... i'll stick around for questions. don't forget assignment 2 [19:58] <Marlowe> Aight [19:58] <@Serenity> if you like, start highlighting your dream signs in your journals [19:58] <stjimmy> Thanks, Serenity [19:58] <Marlowe> Do you have a Dream Guide Serenity? [19:58] <@Serenity> ALSO... DV's dream blogs have a tagging feature [19:58] <@Serenity> and the tags are excellent for dream sign management [19:59] <@Serenity> (shameless promotion) Left this in, because I thought it worth mentioning [20:38] <@Serenity> i sometimes use mantras to help me with recall' [20:38] <@Serenity> i just repeat that when i wake up, i will easily recall my dreams [20:39] <@Serenity> seems to help [20:39] <Linkster17> cool [20:40] <nobodycares> I noticed mantras work if you really focus. [20:40] <@Serenity> gonna grab this chat log monster

[Serenity]

Spoiler for Class three chat logs: [19:00] <@Serenity> alright... i have A TON OF STUFF to cover today [19:00] <quorthonafull> Hi! [19:00] <Marlowe> *grabs notebook* [19:00] <Marlowe> Hiya [19:00] <@Serenity> i've pretty much pre-wrote it all, because i'm so slow... so if i'm posting too fast, tell me to slow down [19:00] <theking> k back [19:01] <Vesterguard> Love the dedication =) [19:01] <@Serenity> anyways, welcome back from the weekend, thanks for coming, let's get rolling.... remember to interrupt me with QUESTION!! [19:01] <smushy> Did class start? [19:01] <@Serenity> yes smushy [19:01] <smushy> QUESTION! [19:01] <@Serenity> ... [19:01] <@Serenity> already? [19:01] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:01] <smushy> Do faulty logic and false memories still apply when you are lucid? [19:01] <quorthonafull> hmmm, the dinner is waiting for me [19:01] <@Serenity> they can, indeed [19:01] <smushy> ok [19:01] <@Serenity> it's still a dream [19:01] <smushy> haha continue [19:01] <smushy> or i mean start [19:01] <quorthonafull> I'll be back in a few minutes [19:02] <@Serenity> first off, we're going to cover sleep cycles [19:02] <smushy> yay sleep cycles! [19:02] <@Serenity> we touched on it in class one, but everyone loved them so much, i am bringing them back [19:02] <@Serenity> Sleep cycles are broken up into two main phases of sleep. NREM and REM sleep. NREM sleep is broken up into 3 categories… [19:02] <@Serenity> N1 - the first phase as we are falling asleep. Commonly referred to as “dozing.” Brain waves are starting to bridge between alpha and theta waves. During this phase, you may experience sudden muscular twitches (hypnic jerks), and hypnogogic hallucinations. [19:03] <@Serenity> We'll briefly interrupt the wonders of N1 and talk about HH for a bit [19:03] <Marlowe> lol [19:04] <@Serenity> these are those crazy things that you often see if you practice WILDs [19:04] <@Serenity> Hypnogogia Sight – you may see random specks of light, lines, geomatic patterns, etc playing on the inside of your eyelids. They can be richly coloured, or monochromatic. You may see yourself moving through tunnels of light. [19:04] <@Serenity> (hynogogia is the umbrella term... and now we'll move through the senses) [19:04] <@Serenity> Tetris effect – anyone who has spent a day at an amusement park has likely experienced this. You spend all day on rides and your body is being whooshed back ad forth. As you are settling in for the night, your body still feels in motion. Can also be feeling the sway of the waves, still feeling the rocks after a day of mountain climbing, etc. [19:05] <@Serenity> Sounds – can vary from barely audible whispers to exploding noises. Common ones are hearing faint music, speech, doorbell, etc. [19:05] <theking> QUESTION! [19:05] <@Serenity> yep [19:05] <theking> Occaisionally, I'll get this sensation where everything seems magnified [19:05] <theking> basically, I could be lying down staring at the opposite wall, and then it looks A LOT closer, is that part of it? [19:05] <theking> I've only really had it when exhausted or sick [19:06] <@Serenity> yes... a lot of people will experience proportional changes [19:06] <theking> explains that! [19:06] <theking> thanks [19:06] <@Serenity> it may even feel like your arm is twice it's normal size [19:06] <Marlowe> I pray that I'll never experience the shouting part of this.. [19:07] <@Serenity> or tunnel vision [19:07] <@Serenity> i've had fishbowl vision [19:07] <smushy> QUESITON! [19:07] <@Serenity> that's trippy [19:07] <@Serenity> yes smushy [19:07] <theking> yeah total tunnel vision [19:07] <smushy> So, when you say we can "see" this. [19:07] <smushy> Do you mean physically see? [19:07] <@Serenity> mostly in the mind's eye, in my experience [19:08] <smushy> so our eyes arent really open? [19:08] <@Serenity> but the fishbowl vision i have physically seen [19:08] <@Serenity> well, if you're trying to WILD, the probably should be closed [19:08] <@Serenity> or well... sleep in general, as this happens in N1 [19:08] <smushy> im so stupid im sorry continue [19:08] <quorthonafull> I'm back! [19:08] <Marlowe> No question is stupid lol [19:08] <smushy> wb [19:08] <theking> oh wait one more on that tangent [19:09] <@Serenity> like the lights on the eye lids are physical sight... but the king saw a coffee pot pouring dolphins [19:09] <theking> let's say you are having Hypnogogic Hallucenations [19:09] <@Serenity> which was more internal sight [19:09] <theking> would you see stuff if you opened your eyes? [19:09] <@Serenity> i've heard some people have if they are sleep deprived [19:09] <theking> gotcha [19:10] <@Serenity> sleep deprivation is a scary thing... but under normal N1 circumstances, seeing things physically is less commong [19:10] <theking> yeah [19:10] <theking> been there... [19:10] <@Serenity> Sleep paralysis – This happens when REM atonia sets in earlier than usual, before we are fully asleep. (REM atonia = paralysis of our body’s muscles so we do not harm ourselves by acting out our dreams). Often accompanying REM atonia may be the crushing feeling on your chest (or feeling suffocated), tingles or vibrations, imagined speech or other noises, imagined presences or invisible entities, intense emotions (usually fear or euphoria), and some people may feel too hot or too cold. [19:11] <smushy> ive been up for 48+ hours and had no hallucinations. i was so dissapointed. maybe i wont be able to expierence or have any signs of lucid dreaming [19:11] <@Serenity> everyone's different smushy [19:11] <@Serenity> i don't really ever see hallucinations at all [19:11] <Marlowe> Me either [19:11] <@Serenity> which is why WILDing is so much harder for me [19:12] <Marlowe> I just experience really intense vibrations :O [19:12] <@Serenity> i sometimes hear things [19:12] <smushy> lucky... [19:12] <@Serenity> we'll talk more about WILDs later, i promise [19:12] <Marlowe> lol ok, please continue [19:12] <@Serenity> Other sensations People have reported experiences with other senses, like certain smells, flashes of light, images in response to real sound, numbness, changes in perception to your body size/proportions, feeling like one is floating, or OOBE (out of body experiences), or a falling sensation, often accompanying a hypnic jerk. [19:13] <Marlowe> I've personally experienced the bursts of light...numerous times [19:13] <@Serenity> alright, so this is all potentially happening within the first 10 minutes or so of falling asleep [19:14] <@Serenity> times vary from person to person, night to night [19:14] <@Serenity> After this, we cross over into N2 phase of NREM sleep [19:14] <@Serenity> N2 – characterized by sleep spindles (where the brain inhibits processes to produce a more tranquil sleep) and K-complexes (which suppresses arousal of the brain in response to things that our sleeping brain may evaluate as danger and memory consolidation (especially prevalent when one is learning new things). Muscular activity decreases, we lose conscious awareness and our external surroundings disappear. [19:15] <@Serenity> questions so far on this bit? [19:15] <smushy> QUESTION! wait is sleep paralysis part of N1? Sorry, you brought sleep paralysis up and then went onto a description...i dont know if the description still belongs to N1? [19:15] <@Serenity> or "move along, big words suck" [19:16] <DawgBone> interesting stuff! [19:16] <Marlowe> *Soakes in knowledge* [19:16] <Marlowe> QUESTION!!! [19:16] <@Serenity> sleep paralysis is part of N1, yes [19:16] <Marlowe> wait nvm it can wait a while [19:16] <smushy> I thought sleep paralysis occured directly after/before REM [19:17] <@Serenity> remember that we don't normally notice these things because we're continually losing awareness when we fall asleep [19:17] <@Serenity> the reason that sleep paralysis "happens" before REM is mostly because people are trying to WILD [19:17] <@Serenity> we trick our brain into thinking it's falling asleep and we skip phases [19:18] <@Serenity> it skips two phases in fact [19:18] <Vesterguard> Interesting! [19:18] <@Serenity> it brings N1 and REM together [19:18] <Marlowe> Intriguing.. [19:19] <@Serenity> the brain is pretty awesome [19:19] <@Serenity> to make a grand understatement [19:19] <@Serenity> moving on to N3 [19:19] <@Serenity> N3 – also known as “deep sleep,” “slow-wave sleep” and “delta sleep.” Characterized by the lowest brain waves, between 0-2.5 hz. Most difficult level of sleep to wake up from. People have reported feeling extremely groggy and mental functioning can be severely impaired for up to 30 minutes following waking from this state. [19:20] <@Serenity> After sleep deprivation, there is a sharp rebound in slow-wave sleep, which lends to the importance of having this state. If one were to increase their SWS over the course of a few nights (this reducing the REM sleep), then one experiences REM-rebound, once the inhibitor is removed (inhibitors usually are things like melatonin). [19:20] <@Serenity> (SWS = slow wave sleep) [19:20] <@Serenity> There used to be an N4 but since 2008, phases 3 and 4 have been combined together. [19:21] <@Serenity> Lastly, in this phase, your eyes are often drifting very slowly back and forth beneath your eye lids. [19:21] <Marlowe> Whoa... [19:22] <@Serenity> So... to highlight a point... what happens over the course of 90 minutes, SWS and REM sleep have a tug of war match with each other [19:22] <Vesterguard> hehe [19:22] <smushy> and REM just keeps getting buffer [19:22] <Marlowe> lol nice analogy smushy [19:22] <@Serenity> As the night progresses, deep sleep takes up less time and REM time increases [19:22] <@Serenity> [19:22] <@Serenity> train of thought..... [19:23] <@Serenity> hang on [19:23] <@Serenity> oh right the sleep deprivation again [19:23] == Linkster17 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:23] <@Serenity> so... the body knows what it needs... you deprive yourself of slow wave sleep, you will experience a rebound effect [19:24] <Linkster17> sorry that im late yet again [19:24] <quorthonafull> Hi Link [19:24] <Linkster17> hey [19:24] <@Serenity> and you will enter slow wave sleep faster and it lasts for longer periods throughout the night, as opposed to normal [19:24] <Marlowe> So in a lightly way speaking, you 'Can catch up' on sleep? [19:24] <Vesterguard> *nods* [19:24] <@Serenity> yeah... it's paying off the sleep debt [19:24] <Vesterguard> have experienced that recently [19:25] <Marlowe> Yahoo, +1 argument to use against my parents one day lol [19:25] <@Serenity> so, adversely, if you suppress REM over the course of a few nights you will experience REM rebound [19:25] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:25] <Vesterguard> Ooooh [19:25] <@Serenity> and have longer periods of dreaming and such [19:25] <Vesterguard> REM rebound.. chess!! [19:25] <Vesterguard> =P [19:25] <@Serenity> moving on to REM sleep, if no one has questions? [19:25] <Vesterguard> QUESTION! [19:25] <@Serenity> yes [19:26] <smushy> QUESTION! You mean that after N3, you can go BACK into N2? [19:26] <@Serenity> smushy, yes actually [19:26] <smushy> Won't that have a screwy effect with REM sleep since N3 is where the eye starts to get moving? [19:26] <Vesterguard> What happens when suppressing both REM and Slow wave? [19:26] <@Serenity> N2 is still slow eyeballs [19:26] <@Serenity> all the NREMs have slow eyeballs [19:27] <@Serenity> Vester - you'll feel like death [19:27] <Linkster17> lol [19:27] <@Serenity> because you won't be getting any sleep [19:27] <smushy> I thought you said N3, the eye starts to move, though. [19:27] <Marlowe> lol [19:27] <Vesterguard> I recognise the feeling stupid question =P [19:27] <@Serenity> chances are, the the SWS will be the one that rebounds [19:27] <Vesterguard> Ah [19:27] <@Serenity> as NREM in general is the restorative sleep [19:28] <Vesterguard> I see the bigger picture [19:28] <@Serenity> smushy, one of the graphs i looked at today actually stated that we go from N3 back to N2 before hitting REM [19:28] <smushy> aha so I was right! [19:29] <smushy> i brought that up in the first class i think [19:29] <smushy> Wait do we go into N1 too? [19:29] <smushy> like [19:29] <smushy> N1 N2 N3 N2 N1 REM? [19:29] <smushy> or is it just [19:29] <smushy> N1 N2 N3 N2 REM [19:29] <@Serenity> the second [19:29] <smushy> so i was wrong last class... [19:29] <smushy> darn it [19:30] <@Serenity> i can't find the graph... it [19:30] <@Serenity> it's on wikipedia somewhere [19:30] <Vesterguard> Siphorix [19:30] <Vesterguard> made something similar [19:30] <@Serenity> anyways, moving on, for now [19:31] <@Serenity> REM sleep - To put things into perspective, our cumulative time each night spent in REM sleep is around 90-120 minutes (an hour and a half to two hours). REM stands for rapid-eye movement, hence the name of the phase of sleep as that is exactly what is happening. The eyes are darting back and forth under our eyelids. This is how devices like the Nova Dreamer know how to signal us that we are in REM sleep/dreaming. [19:31] <@Serenity> Brain waves associated with REM are quite similar to those found when we are awake, which leads to why we experience REM atonia. [19:31] <@Serenity> In REM, we experience our most vivid dreams… a world that engages all of our senses so convincingly, we often do not realize we’re dreaming until we wake up! So imagine how bad it would be if we didn’t become paralysed [19:32] <Marlowe> O.o [19:32] <DawgBone> Question! Do we also sometimes dream in non-REM? [19:32] <Marlowe> I would be in A LOT of trouble... [19:32] <@Serenity> (there are parasomnias where this happen ) [19:32] <@Serenity> yes! we do dream in NREM [19:32] <@Serenity> they aren't very vivid... it's said [19:32] <Marlowe> Is it possible to LD in NREM? [19:33] <Vesterguard> yes [19:33] <@Serenity> nothing's impossible [19:33] <@Serenity> but i think it's probably very rare [19:33] <Marlowe> How is the recall if you do dream in NREM? [19:33] <@Serenity> i'm considering the spindles and K-complexes from N2 [19:34] <smushy> Is it possible to NOT dream is REM? [19:34] <@Serenity> which work to suppress all of that active thinking, shutting off the prefrontal cortex etc [19:34] <@Serenity> smushy... i think we dream every night, but some of them just suck, hehe [19:34] <@Serenity> what i mean is... i get these "thought dreams" sometimes [19:34] <smushy> with my luck, i probbly dont dream in REM if thats possible [19:34] <@Serenity> where all i was really doing all night was thinking, or so it seemed [19:35] <smushy> which means no lucid dreamin for me.. [19:35] <@Serenity> do you day dream, smushy? [19:35] <@Serenity> and what about that hell of a long dream in your journal i'm still reading? [19:36] <Linkster17> lol [19:36] <@Serenity> i ask about day dreaming, because it's a good way to incubate a dream [19:36] <Linkster17> yep [19:36] <smushy> i day dream yeah, but its always like im [19:36] <@Serenity> oddly enough... the thing we do naturally every night, takes a lot of work [19:37] <smushy> im never not in control of it [19:37] <smushy> idk maybe i only dream in NREM! [19:37] <smushy> lucid day dreaming hahaha [19:37] <smushy> but sorry for making it so long [19:37] <@Serenity> no! longer the better! [19:37] <smushy> its not even cuz its vivid, its just cuz i suck at summing it up [19:37] <smushy> as u can tell [19:37] <@Serenity> always, always, always write as many details as you can remember [19:37] <smushy> k [19:37] <@Serenity> even if all you get is the texture on the walls [19:38] <@Serenity> it helps enhance recall in the future [19:38] <Linkster17> lol [19:38] <smushy> QUESTION! whats a parasomnia [19:38] <smushy> u mentioned them [19:38] <@Serenity> sleeping disorders [19:38] <smushy> Do they act out what their dream selves are doing? [19:38] <@Serenity> like sleep walking, or waking up in the middle SP and can't move [19:38] <smushy> i used to sleep walk as a little kid? [19:39] <smushy> was i dreaming during my sleep walking? [19:39] <smushy> cuz i doubt i was banging on pots and pans in my dreams (thats what i did during my sleep walk) [19:39] <@Serenity> well... i don't have tons of research to back me up on this, but i'll grab something for you [19:39] <theking> 'I scared the hell out of my parents with sleep walking [19:39] <Linkster17> lol [19:39] <smushy> i also creepily stood over my sisters bed and watched her. [19:39] <@Serenity> Parasomnia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [19:39] <Linkster17> thats weird lol [19:39] <@Serenity> i need to move along, if it's okay [19:39] <smushy> thanks serenity [19:40] <smushy> yes sorry [19:40] <@Serenity> [19:40] <@Serenity> lots of material still [19:40] <@Serenity> Sleep deprivation is sometimes viewed as desireable for oneironauts, as it is thought that people who sleep less also sleep more efficiently. The brain transitions to stage 3 (and subsequently, REM) faster that those who sleep more. [19:40] <smushy> hopefully ill understand [19:40] <@Serenity> Before you all go off and start pulling all-nighters, it is extremely wise to research the health risks associated with sleep deprivation. [19:41] <@Serenity> to be honest... i don't personally recommend it [19:41] <smushy> What's a oneironaut? [19:41] <@Serenity> oneironauts are us dream walkers [19:41] <smushy> wahoo! [19:41] == zebrah [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [19:41] == mode/#DVA [+o zebrah] by DreamBot [19:42] <theking> With sleep depervation [19:42] <theking> I actually can operate on about 4 hours of sleep a night [19:42] <theking> just because I had insomnia for years [19:42] <@Serenity> theking, your body has likely adjusted to that effcient sleeping i was mentioning [19:42] <theking> yep [19:43] <theking> sorry for interupting [19:43] <@Serenity> personally... i like my 8-10 hours [19:43] <theking> just throwing out that caution that it can happen [19:43] <theking> haha, lucky [19:43] <@Serenity> moving on [19:43] <@Serenity> ooh.. the good stuff... we're going to cover off some basic induction techniques [19:43] <@Serenity> (seeing how this is an intro course, and all ) [19:43] <quorthonafull> yahoo! [19:44] <theking> *tiger woods fist pump* [19:44] <@Serenity> DILD – Dream Initiated Lucid Dream. [19:44] <@Serenity> A quick how to. [19:44] <@Serenity> 1. Go to sleep. 2. Realize you are dreaming. 3. Profit. [19:44] <@Serenity> >.> [19:44] <@Serenity> Pros – almost no effort on part of the dreamer. [19:44] <@Serenity> Cons – extremely random occurance of lucid dreams. Unless you’re a natural, you will likely have a very low frequency of realizing you are dreaming. [19:44] <@Serenity> [19:45] <@Serenity> Sucks, doesn't it? [19:45] <Marlowe> indeed [19:45] <@Serenity> >>What you can do to increase your odds<< [19:45] <@Serenity> Keep a dream journal. Read it often. [19:45] <@Serenity> Keep an updated and in-depth list of your dream signs. Reality check to them during the day as much as possible. [19:45] <@Serenity> Reality check anyways, as much as possible. [19:45] <Marlowe> Day Residue huh? [19:45] <@Serenity> (zebrah runs a RC course, btw ) [19:46] <@Serenity> day residue, yes [19:46] <@Serenity> Increase your overall awareness as you go about your day. [19:46] <@Serenity> and the gold medal award: Combine the technique with a WBTB [19:46] <@Serenity> which i will let you catch up and go on about in a minute [19:46] <@Serenity> questions....? [19:46] <Marlowe> Not from me [19:47] <@Serenity> going..... going.... [19:47] <Vesterguard> well [19:47] <@Serenity> :x [19:47] <Vesterguard> I have issues reality checking almost any dream [19:47] <Vesterguard> but I think I will stick to attemtping WILDs.. seem to be progress [19:47] <@Serenity> remembering to? or that they fail? [19:48] <Vesterguard> remembering to [19:48] <@Serenity> the way to start remembering them is to train your prospective memory [19:49] <@Serenity> i'll hit that in a moment [19:49] <@Serenity> for the continuity of the course... WBTB's [19:49] <@Serenity> WBTB – Wake Back To Bed [19:49] <@Serenity> How to. [19:49] <@Serenity> 1. Wake up somewhere between 5-6 hours of sleeping. [19:49] <@Serenity> 2. GET OUT OF BED! Go to the washroom, even if you don’t feel like you have to go. [19:49] <@Serenity> 3. Get a sip of water, if you want to. [19:49] <@Serenity> 4. Start jogging your brain about lucidity. Think about any dreams you just woke up from. Start finding things to reality check over. [19:50] <@Serenity> (from this i mean previous dreams) [19:50] <@Serenity> (i used to think it meant objects in the room... *coughs*) [19:50] <@Serenity> (I always wondered how one could RC over a couch....) [19:50] <smushy> .. [19:50] <Marlowe> Actually... [19:51] <@Serenity> (anyways, think about weird things you could conceivably RC over and things in your dreams from tonight) [19:51] <@Serenity> 5. Think about any goals you may have, or you may wish to start incubating a dream at this point. [19:51] <@Serenity> 6. Go back to bed (time spent awake varies from person to person and how easy/hard it is for you to fall asleep). [19:52] <@Serenity> Don’t – go on your computer, watch TV, read a book, etc. It’s too easy to zone out. The point is to focus this time awake on lucid dreaming ONLY. [19:52] <theking> Question! [19:52] <theking> when doing WBTB [19:52] <@Serenity> (exception - if your dream journal is on your computer, then this is okay) [19:52] <theking> is 5 - 6 an estimate [19:52] <@Serenity> yes [19:52] <theking> or should you aim for something? [19:52] <@Serenity> it's an estimate, but it's a solid one [19:52] <theking> I tried 4 last night [19:52] <theking> and I just crashed while attempting to WILD [19:52] <theking> k [19:52] <@Serenity> oh right! i made a graph on sleep cycles [19:53] <@Serenity> let me bring it up [19:53] <@Serenity> http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...leepcycles.png [19:53] <@Serenity> okay, take a look at this dude and then come back for the info [19:54] <Marlowe> that's interesting.. [19:54] <@Serenity> if you woke up at 4 hours exactly, you probably interrupted REM [19:54] <@Serenity> which was a bit too early, especially considering your insomnia [19:55] <@Serenity> it's going to be a bit trickier for you to determine an appropriate timing [19:55] <@Serenity> i would try maybe drinking a glass of water before bed [19:55] <theking> I overcame it a bit, but I am sure my cycles are off [19:55] <theking> I sleep from about 10/11 to 5 [19:55] <@Serenity> and allowing yourself to wake up naturally during the night for the washroom [19:56] <@Serenity> and note that time you wake up at [19:56] <Marlowe> me to theking [19:56] <DawgBone> The Zeo device does a pretty good job of graphing sleep cycles. [19:56] <Marlowe> Zeo device? [19:56] <@Serenity> so... at cycle 3 (4.5 hours) REM is lasting about 30 minutes at this point [19:57] <@Serenity> this is a good time length to have a LD if you're going to have one on any given night [19:57] <DawgBone> Google Zeo, Marlowe. There are also a couple of threads. [19:57] <Marlowe> k [19:57] <@Serenity> plus its early enough to get back to sleep easier, with your preferred technique [19:58] <@Serenity> moving on, i have 3 minutes left, hehe [19:58] <@Serenity> another WBTB don't... Don’t – start thinking about what you need to do when you wake up later. Lucid dreaming only, here! [19:58] <@Serenity> WBTB’s have been known to increase the chances of having a DILD by 50%!! [19:58] <@Serenity> Pros – the increased chance of having a lucid dream. [19:58] <@Serenity> Cons – sleep loss is inevitable. [19:59] <@Serenity> Another DILD-related technique... MILD – Mnemonic Induced Lucid Dream [19:59] <@Serenity> How to. 1. Sleep for 5-6 hours, then get up for a WBTB. [19:59] <@Serenity> 3. When you get back into bed, relax and think of a mantra. Usually something like, “Next time I’m dreaming, I will realize I’m dreaming” works well to start with. [19:59] <@Serenity> whoops... i skipped 2 [19:59] <@Serenity> it was "Do the WBTB" [20:00] <@Serenity> 4. Think about the dream you just had, where you could’ve done a RC and realized you’re dreaming. Imagine yourself back in that dream, realizing. Stabilize. [20:00] <@Serenity> (all this is still daydreaming and imagining,,, but you are essentially incubating a dream, here) [20:00] <@Serenity> 5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 as you fall back to sleep. Try to make it the last thing on your mind. [20:01] <@Serenity> A quick blurb on prospective memory... [20:01] <@Serenity> What it is... It's remembering to remember something without external stimuli [20:02] <@Serenity> which sounds kinda wonky... what i mean is... without a piece of paper or something to say "remember to RC!" [20:02] <@Serenity> if that makes more sense... we don't want that [20:02] <Marlowe> Gotcha...just remember to do it naturally? [20:02] <@Serenity> so... the best way to train prospective memory is to do daily targets [20:03] <@Serenity> like today could be "I'lll remember to RC every time i turn on a light" [20:03] <@Serenity> press buttons [20:03] <@Serenity> walk through a door [20:03] <@Serenity> see a blue car [20:03] <@Serenity> you get the picture [20:03] <@Serenity> the idea is, you'll remember to RC when you see your dream signs in your dreams [20:03] <Marlowe> Yeah.. [20:04] <@Serenity> which is why it's especially good that if you have DS's that occur IRL... that you RC to them as much as possible [20:04] <@Serenity> Pros – the MILD technique (developed by Stephen LaBerge) has proved to be 100% effective in producing lucid dreams. Say what?!!! It’s the truth. People who have this technique down can have multiple LD’s a night with it. [20:04] <@Serenity> Cons – it takes a lonnnnng time to become effective. You may start off with a few LD’s a month. Maybe 1 a week. It can take years to have multiple LD’s a night. [20:04] <Marlowe> :O [20:04] <@Serenity> everyone here know Naiya around the forum? [20:04] <Marlowe> yeah [20:04] <@Serenity> She uses MILDing, predominantly [20:05] <quorthonafull> yes [20:05] <@Serenity> and she's totalled about 1100 or so LD's in a couple of years [20:05] <@Serenity> MILDing... a very solid technique [20:05] <@Serenity> (PercyLucid teaches a course, too, yay!!!) [20:05] <Marlowe> Whoa... [20:06] <@Serenity> WILD – Wake Initiated Lucid Dream [20:06] <smushy> okAY. [20:06] <@Serenity> How to. 1. Sleep about 5-6 hours. [20:06] <@Serenity> 2. Do a WBTB. 3. When you go back to bed (or a couch, if you share a bed – you’ll want to not be disturbed), relax. Do a relaxation technique that focuses each part of the body. A good tech takes about 10-15 minutes. [20:06] <smushy> I'm gonna go eat for a little bit, but ill read up when i come back. should only take 10 min [20:06] <@Serenity> kk [20:06] <@Serenity> sorry this is going long [20:06] <@Serenity> i'm just going to flump all the info out [20:06] <DawgBone> that's okay [20:06] <@Serenity> 4. Try not to move your body at this point. If you have to swallow, do so, but don’t freak out over it. Just swallow and pretend it never happened 5. Keep your mind occupied as you try to fall asleep CONSCIOUSLY. Some people do a 1-I’m dreaming, 2-I’m dreaming as they breathe. Some people play word games. Like A – apple, B – banana. Do this until you start feeling SP onset. You may start to experience hallucinations. This is good! [20:07] <@Serenity> 6. If you experience a lot of HH, try to watch it passively. If you focus on HH too much, it will probably disappear. If you start seeing dreamlets, do not force yourself into them. They will roll over your mind. There will be one that appears more solid than the others. Try to interact with this one . [20:08] <@Serenity> dreamlets = "pre-sleep dream fragments" from earlier, hehe [20:08] <@Serenity> 7. You may not experience HH at all. Or SP… so how do you transition? Many who do not experience the sensory stuff often experience a “shift” in consciousness. If you have been lucid before, that feeling is a good indicator of success. During these shifts, you may SWEAR that you are awake, but you may be presently surprised! Do a RC. It can be something small, like tickle the roof of your mouth with your tongue, or bite on your tongue. [20:08] <@Serenity> pleasantly surprised....* i fail [20:08] <@Serenity> 8. Some try to float out at this point, or roll out. Some people try to move a dream body rather than a real one. 9. When you do find yourself in your dream. Stabilize. 10. After a great deal of effort – profit . [20:09] <@Serenity> Rawr [20:09] <@Serenity> Pros – a good WILD’er can have a lucid dream nightly (and multiple times a night). Often WILDs are the most stable and closer to that level 4 and level 5 state we were talking about. [20:09] <theking> I'm looking forward to sleep now, haha [20:09] <Marlowe> haha WILD and MILD ftw [20:09] <Marlowe> Ditto I'm syched about sleeping [20:09] <@Serenity> You get to control them from the get-go. [20:10] <theking> I'd been doing DILD and WILD practice; MILD is just so time consuming, to me [20:10] <@Serenity> Sometimes, a failed WILD results in a DILD Which is actually my current technique, lol [20:10] <@Serenity> good! excited about sleep is awesome!! [20:10] <Marlowe> Yeah Serenity, join my reseach experiment in the research forum [20:10] <@Serenity> i'll look it up [20:10] <@Serenity> Cons – very, very difficult to learn and master. [20:10] <Marlowe> That's basically what it is and proving that it works with real data [20:10] <quorthonafull> I had that WILD to DILD thing a couple of timer [20:10] <@Serenity> Each WILD is different! [20:10] <@Serenity> Sometimes, they just can’t be stabilized. [20:11] <@Serenity> You risk losing awareness as you fall back to sleep. [20:11] <@Serenity> SP, for some people, is a very scary thing (try to remember, this happens every night, only this time, you’re aware of it). [20:11] <@Serenity> I'm going to save DEILDs for next class [20:11] <@Serenity> I have to go soon, so i want to be able to answer questions now, with my time left [20:11] <@Serenity> questions... go! [20:12] <Marlowe> Well interesting class Serenity, thanks And everyone who was interested in the WILD to DILD thing, please give my research experiment in the Research forum a look! [20:12] == Marlowe [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [20:13] <@Serenity> sorry for the swamp of info =/ [20:13] <theking> I need some sleep, so hopefully, I'll have something to report tomorrow [20:13] <DawgBone> Great class, Serenity. See you tomorrow. [20:13] == DawgBone [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [20:13] <@Serenity> night everyone [20:13] <@Serenity> (i'm still here for a moment) [20:13] <@Serenity> (about 20 more minutes) [20:14] <@Serenity> For the chat log records: Assignment: Review your current sleep schedule. Taking what you know about DILDs and WILDs, which technique would best work for you for inducing lucid dreams? Bonus: Knowing this, you may want to look into signing up for that specific course when it’s offered next

[Serenity]

Spoiler for Class four: [19:00] <@Serenity> So guys... I'm sad, this is our last Intro class :*( [19:00] <DawgBone> :--( [19:00] <theking> I learned a ton [19:00] <@Serenity> What I plan to do is extend the course itself until friday NEXT WEEK, to give everyone time to do the assignments [19:00] <@Serenity> there won't be a final exam, because i hate writing them [19:01] <@Serenity> however, just remember that 6 things have to be completed to earn the cute little badge [19:01] <@Serenity> so if you attended all 4 classes, you're pretty much sitting pretty already [19:01] <theking> damn [19:01] <@Serenity> it's okay.... make ups are easy to do [19:01] <theking> I did 3 classes and three assignments though [19:01] <@Serenity> read the chat log for the course you missed and write up a summary of the course [19:01] <theking> I think I'm still good [19:01] <theking> will do [19:02] == jessie1203 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA2 [19:02] <@Serenity> oh, well you should be alright then [19:02] <@Serenity> there's one more assignment for tonight, too [19:02] <jessie1203> hello [19:02] == Linkster17 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA2 [19:02] <@Serenity> so, it's good [19:02] <jessie1203> AH!! what'd i miss! [19:02] <Marlowe> back [19:02] <@Serenity> alright, so let's begin [19:02] <Linkster17> i made it, lol [19:02] <Linkster17> hey [19:02] <@Serenity> nothing so far! [19:02] <Marlowe> Btw, why did you do the room change? [19:02] <jessie1203> good! [19:02] <Vesterguard> 2 classes running simultaniously [19:02] <@Serenity> because the MILD course is running in room one [19:02] <Marlowe> oh ok [19:03] <@Serenity> btw, if you're in both courses, have fun : [19:03] <@Serenity> [19:03] <solomon> I attended all of the classes...I just gotta do the homework :/ [19:03] <@PercyLucid> Linkster17 is xD [19:03] <Linkster17> lol, this will be interesting [19:03] <@Serenity> today is dream control, so you're free to choose which class is more important to you [19:03] <@Serenity> i won't be offended [19:03] <Marlowe> Lol I have absolutely no dream control [19:03] <@PercyLucid> me neither [19:03] <@PercyLucid> I see both require to be lucid xDDD [19:03] <jessie1203> me neither! [19:03] <Marlowe> Lucidity is the easy part for me, Control is the hard part [19:04] <@Serenity> anyways, so to begin... yesterday we covered a hell of a lot of material [19:04] <@PercyLucid> cuz mine is how to MILD within a lucid dream to chain to other lucid dream [19:04] <@Serenity> we left off discussing WILDs [19:04] <Linkster17> i have none, and i will switch back and forth between classes [19:04] <Marlowe> yeah u were about 2 discuss DEILDs [19:04] <@Serenity> the last WILD technique I want to bring up is DEILDs [19:04] <@Serenity> stop typing faster than me! [19:04] <Marlowe> [19:04] == AstralFae18 [[email protected]] has joined #DVA2 [19:04] <solomon> Oh, then I missed one [19:04] <@Serenity> DEILD – Dream-Exit Induced Lucid Dream [19:05] <AstralFae18> sorry i'm a little late D: [19:05] <theking> Yes! I didn't get the DEILD tutorial while reading [19:05] <@Serenity> [19:05] <solomon> Good, this the one I want to try [19:05] <@Serenity> When waking from a dream, you may be able to re-enter it, consciously! [19:05] <@Serenity> If you choose to use a dream for this, then as you wake up, lay as still as possible. [19:05] <@Serenity> Do not think about anything else, other than imagining yourself back into the dream you were just in. [19:05] <@Serenity> As you are imagining this, keep awareness that this is a dream you just woke up from. [19:05] <@Serenity> Watch it re-form back around you (it’s pretty cool). [19:06] <@Serenity> STABILIZE!! DEILDs are generally quite unstable upon re-entry. [19:06] <@Serenity> We will talk about stabilizing in a bit [19:06] <@Serenity> Pros – very fast entry into a lucid dream. It is considered the shortened WILD. Often used as a method to prolong lucid dreams!! It is reportedly much easier to chain back into a dream where you were already lucid. [19:06] <@Serenity> Cons – there is a very, very small window of time to do a DEILD. If you’re not dreaming within a minute or so of waking up, it’s gone. [19:07] <@Serenity> Sacrifice of dream recall if you accidentally lose awareness and fall back to sleep into a normal dream. [19:07] <Linkster17> interesting [19:08] <@Serenity> Questions on any of the techniques from last night and now befor we move on to control? [19:08] <Vesterguard> I get them a lot, a natural by product of the snooze funtion =P [19:08] <Marlowe> lol [19:08] <@Serenity> lol yeah... [19:08] <@Serenity> DEILDs are actually a really great late morning technique [19:09] <theking> I still can't WILD =( [19:09] <theking> I can't get my mind to clear [19:09] <theking> any tips? [19:09] <@Serenity> i find that for myself, my dreams are more solid in the later morning [19:09] == quorthonafull [[email protected]] has joined #DVA2 [19:09] <@Serenity> try paying attention to your breathing to the exclusion of all else [19:09] <Marlowe> theking, don't try to consciously clear your mind. Let your mind wander, just don't interact with your thoughts [19:09] <solomon> I don't even try to WILD anymore...too stressed out right now [19:10] <@Serenity> I have a friend who teaches quiet mind meditation... [19:10] <quorthonafull> hi [19:10] <theking> I can try that [19:10] <@Serenity> she lists her meditation as such [19:10] <@Serenity> find a quiet place [19:10] <@Serenity> relax and start focusing on your breathing [19:11] <@Serenity> your mind may start to wander... when you notice it does, quietly bring your attention back to your breathing... [19:11] <@Serenity> your mind may start to wander... when you notice it does, quietly bring your attention back to your breathing... [19:11] <@Serenity> your mind may start to wander... when you notice it does, quietly bring your attention back to your breathing... [19:11] <@Serenity> [19:11] <Linkster17> lol [19:11] <DawgBone> ha [19:11] <@Serenity> when we are first learning quiet mind meditation, our minds do tend to wander [19:12] <@Serenity> don't stress out over it... just quietly bring your attention back to your breathing [19:12] <Linkster17> i can kind of do that of meditation, but only on accident [19:12] <@Serenity> as you do meditations more, you will find the time between mind-wanderings will lengthen [19:12] <@Serenity> also, for WILDS... [19:13] <@Serenity> It really, really helps if you meditate during the day [19:13] <theking> I've got time for that [19:13] <theking> I'll give it go [19:13] <Linkster17> ok [19:13] <Vesterguard> Yeah that goes on the to do list for the next couple of attempts [19:13] <@Serenity> if you are able to get a hold of a CD of theta waves (look up Dr. Jeffrey Thompson), it is the best way to "train" for WILDs [19:14] <@Serenity> as we are generally producing theta waves while we sleep [19:14] <@Serenity> if you can learn how to stay aware while listening to theta waves (which is called brain entrainment), you will benefit [19:15] <@Serenity> remember that WILDing, you are trying to fall asleep... consciously [19:15] <@Serenity> i find i'm starting to have more success if i forget about the fact i'm trying to WILD [19:15] <theking> I still can't follow what that means [19:15] <theking> hmm [19:15] <Marlowe> jAnother tip for WILDing is that your first priority is to fall asleep, consciouses comes second [19:15] <@Serenity> but focusing on "what's it like to fall asleep consciously?!" [19:16] <@Serenity> yes, Marlowe [19:16] <@Serenity> i find when i focus more on relaxing deeper and deeper... i just automatically start watching all the HI passively [19:16] <@Serenity> whereas I used to jump on it (and ruin it) [19:17] <@Serenity> the transition has to happen naturally.... you can't force it [19:17] <@Serenity> and yeah, it could take over an hour to happen when you first start out [19:17] <@Serenity> anyways... i hope i just saved you all about 8 months of torture [19:17] <solomon> Sitting still for an hour e.e [19:17] <@Serenity> because it took me that long to figure this out [19:18] <@Serenity> laying still for an hour, ye[ [19:18] <@Serenity> yep* [19:18] <@Serenity> in crappy SP... i know [19:18] <@Serenity> mine gets HOT... and sometimes it hurts [19:18] <@Serenity> it goes away once you're asleep though [19:18] <@Serenity> anyways, for now, we will move along [19:19] <@Serenity> So! Control [19:19] <@Serenity> Remember that lucidity does not equal control! [19:19] <@Serenity> and also that despite that you are lucid, you may find things difficult [19:20] <Linkster17> yep [19:20] <@Serenity> In my last lucid, it seemed as though that no matter what I tried, my dream did everything to thwart me, hehe [19:20] <@Serenity> I tried to snap my fingers, my "snapping" fingers were all swollen and malformed [19:20] <Vesterguard> hehe [19:21] <@Serenity> i tried to summon a mirror to walk through [19:21] <@Serenity> it gave me a little 8x10 sized thingy [19:21] <@Serenity> i tried to summon a person and they just wouldn't appear! [19:21] <Linkster17> lol [19:21] <Linkster17> im sorry [19:21] <@Serenity> dreams are like that... so there are tricks to make things work for you [19:22] <@Serenity> no worries, i thought it was pretty funny when i woke up\ [19:22] <@Serenity> it was soooo frustrating though, hehe [19:22] <@Serenity> there are passive techniques and active techniques [19:22] <AstralFae18> lol! ahh that sounds really funny XD [19:22] <@Serenity> Passive 1 - Affirmation [19:23] <@Serenity> Your dream will create things that you know are there. When you are in your house in a lucid dream, you know that the kitchen is next to the dining room, and therefore, it is so. [19:23] <@Serenity> This works for everything. You can create an object or a person by "knowing" that they are through the nearest door or just around the corner. [19:23] <@Serenity> You just tell yourself (or declare it out loud), "When I walk through this door, a mirror will be in here." [19:24] <@Serenity> This may prove difficult at first because there is a difference of saying and believing. [19:24] <@Serenity> You have to know 100% that what you want is somewhere in your dream. If there is any doubt in your mind, then it won't show up. [19:24] <@Serenity> Passive two - Asking [19:24] <@Serenity> Instead of forcing a dream character to do something, ask them to. Instead of trying to fly somewhere, walk there. Instead of summoning an object, look for it. [19:25] <@Serenity> This is much easier for the dream to do, because it mimics real life. The brain tried to keep things are real as possible (specifically when the logical centre of the brain is on during a lucid dream) so forcing your will on it can cause the dream to destabilize. [19:25] <AstralFae18> ohh, wow, i don't think i've ever read about passive control like that [19:25] <@Serenity> no? [19:26] <AstralFae18> no, i read about the first kind, but never that [19:26] <@Serenity> ahh [19:26] <AstralFae18> that's actually really cool XD [19:26] <@Serenity> Passive three - Schemas [19:26] <@Serenity> When trying to affirm something in your dream, it is important to do it according to how your schemas view that element. [19:26] <@Serenity> If your current girlfriend has never been in the house that you grew up in, the odds of being able to affirm that she is there are much lower. [19:26] <@Serenity> (or boyfriend ) [19:27] <@Serenity> This works the same way with asking for something. If you ask for a puppy from someone who you know hates dogs, then you probably aren't going to get one. [19:27] <@Serenity> Questions on passive techniques? [19:28] <AstralFae18> i'm happy with what you said [19:28] <Linkster17> i see [19:28] <@Serenity> okays [19:28] <@Serenity> Moving on to some active techniques [19:29] <@Serenity> Active control is the type of control that most people think of when they hear dream control. This is where the use of magical powers comes in. Dreams are just very realistic manifestations of your own imagination, so technically, you are limited only by your imagination. [19:29] <@Serenity> Active one - Attachment [19:29] <@Serenity> This is similar to schemas, but it has more to do with the way that you know that the universe works. You know that objects can't float and that telekinesis isn't real. [19:30] <@Serenity> In order to actively control your dreams, you have to let go of these attachments. [19:30] <@Serenity> You must truly realize that everything that you see and do in your dream is just a figment of your imagination. [19:30] <@Serenity> Realizing this will free your mind and allow you to become the omnipotent master of your dream world. [19:30] <solomon> brb [19:30] <@Serenity> Active two - Flying [19:30] == solomon [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:31] <@Serenity> Alright... who here has attempted flight and failed? [19:31] <Vesterguard> Had it sorted from my first lucid, yay me ^^ [19:31] <Linkster17> nope, havent had a lucid long enough [19:32] <AstralFae18> i can get off the ground just fine [19:32] <@Serenity> nice [19:32] <@Serenity> alright, well, just in case [19:32] <AstralFae18> but i can barely control where i go/how far i go D: [19:32] <@Serenity> sometimes you might feel like you're sinking [19:32] <@Serenity> if i can get off the ground, but i start to sink, what i do is i "fix a point" on the horizon [19:33] <@Serenity> it's hard to explain, but it's like I mentally draw a line from my third eye (my forehead ) to a point WAYYY off in the distance [19:33] <@Serenity> and that seems to keep me in the ait [19:33] <@Serenity> air* [19:34] <DawgBone> that's cool [19:34] <@Serenity> i can use a schema, and say... transform into eternal sailor moon (who has wings...) *cough* [19:34] <AstralFae18> ohh [19:34] <AstralFae18> fun! x3 [19:34] <Linkster17> lol [19:34] <Vesterguard> Hmm my flying became more subconscioulsy controable after I focused intense awareness on how I was producing the sensation of wind around my head in a lucid.. [19:34] <@Serenity> i can reach into my pocket and pull out this bottle labeled "Flight Aid." [19:34] <Vesterguard> NICE! =) [19:34] <DawgBone> ha [19:35] <@Serenity> popping one of those pills will allow me to fly, now [19:35] <DawgBone> lol I have to get some ... [19:35] <AstralFae18> that's really cool! XD might pop by the pharmacy to look for some myself =3 [19:35] <@Serenity> and lastly, i could find a backpack with a jet pack that sprouts from it [19:35] <Marlowe> I flew automatically in my last lucid..don't know how though [19:36] <@Serenity> once you fly once, you will do it again, easy [19:36] <Marlowe> Hmm...when I did it, I was in a dream within a dream... [19:36] <@Serenity> i actually summoned wings on my first flight and they disappeared almost immediately [19:36] <@Serenity> but i didn't need them anymore [19:36] <Linkster17> cool [19:36] == fakado [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [19:37] <@Serenity> Active three - Teleportation [19:37] <@Serenity> This one's weird... I don't normally do it in my dreams [19:37] <@Serenity> but when i have needed to, i've done it a bit unconventionally [19:38] <@Serenity> first way it's worked for me is... i close my eyes and snap my fingers... [19:38] <@Serenity> unfortunately, not a lot of people can close their eyes in their dreams [19:38] <Vesterguard> Scared of closing my eyes in lucids.. seems to wake me up [19:38] <@Serenity> for me, it's never bothered me or woken me up, but that's rare, i have found [19:38] <@Serenity> dream spinning has worked for some [19:39] <@Serenity> but that can also cause some people to wake up =/ [19:39] <AstralFae18> i thought dream spinning was a stabilization technique o_O [19:39] <@Serenity> i had a cool experience once where a dream character of Raven Knight tossed me into the air and i watched my body go transparent [19:39] <@Serenity> and then i reappeared in a new scene [19:40] <@Serenity> so... essentially she teleported me [19:40] <@Serenity> so if all else fails, befriend a DC who is good at teleporting people [19:40] <Vesterguard> hahaha [19:40] <AstralFae18> lol! [19:41] <@Serenity> Another travel technique if teleporting is not going so well [19:41] <@Serenity> Portals [19:41] <@Serenity> You could summon one yourself... which is a bit advanced, but tons of fun [19:41] <@Serenity> I usually extend my arms and imagine what it would feel like if i was a sorcerer who could put a tear into the fabric of existence [19:42] <@Serenity> You could walk around a corner and find a portal waiting for you [19:42] <@Serenity> you could walk through a door and the door was the portal [19:42] <@Serenity> you could walk through a mirror [19:43] <@Serenity> the key to both teleporting and portals is... you should have a place in mind where you are going before you try to go there [19:43] <@Serenity> it increases the success of the change to work [19:43] <Linkster17> i saw a portal in my dream but just watched the cool colors lol [19:43] <@Serenity> Telekinesis [19:44] <Vesterguard> I use that as a RC =P [19:44] <@Serenity> You might notice that gravity is significantly reduced in dreams [19:44] <@Serenity> so to start, toss an object in the air and watch it slowly float back down to you [19:45] <@Serenity> next time... just try sending it up with your mind without moving your hand [19:45] <@Serenity> make an object come to you by imagining that it's connected to your hand via invisible string, or magnetic pull [19:45] <Linkster17> yeah, i kind of hovered in a dream once to avoid bein eaten, slowly fell back down [19:45] <@Serenity> Summoning People [19:46] <@Serenity> You could just call out for them... they may appear right before your eyes [19:46] <@Serenity> If not... [19:46] <Vesterguard> Really bad at summoning things/persons [19:46] <@Serenity> Try asking the intended person a question and believe they are standing right behind you, to answer you [19:47] <@Serenity> They could be waiting for you in a different room, or around a corner [19:47] <quorthonafull> wow [19:47] <@Serenity> for objects, it's kind of the same thing [19:47] <@Serenity> if it doesn't come to you... you could try going to it [19:48] <@Serenity> just KNOW that it will be there [19:48] <@Serenity> Stabilizing a Dream [19:48] <@Serenity> Alright... you're lucid [19:48] <@Serenity> you've done your RC if you needed to do one and you want to go play around or something! [19:49] <@Serenity> But first... it's a good idea to make sure that leaping into the air won't wake you up [19:49] <@Serenity> my favourite technique is to just touch something [19:49] <@Serenity> interact with the dream envrionment [19:49] <@Serenity> I usually try to "turn on my senses" [19:50] <@Serenity> does the room have a scent [19:50] <@Serenity> really take in how things look, it's actually really incredible [19:50] <@Serenity> this is part of what amazes people so much with lucid dreams [19:50] <@Serenity> feel something. the walls, some glass, wood... chairs [19:51] <@Serenity> also... take a moment to check how your dream body feels [19:51] <@Serenity> get REALLY used to this feeling, because when you are, you don't need to do RC's to PROVE lucidity anymore [19:51] <Vesterguard> you can go blind from that! [19:51] <@Serenity> [19:51] <@Serenity> then feel the hair on your palms [19:51] <@Serenity> moving on... [19:51] <DawgBone> ha [19:51] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:52] <AstralFae18> LOL [19:52] <@Serenity> alright, so now that you've taken a moment to really feel the dream, it should be good and stable [19:52] <@Serenity> you can use these same techniques to prolong a dream that starts to slip away [19:52] <theking> QUESTION! [19:53] <@Serenity> yes [19:53] <theking> I've read time in dreams is real time [19:53] <theking> is that always the case? [19:53] <@Serenity> it's very close, yeah [19:53] <theking> damn [19:53] <Marlowe> aww [19:53] <@Serenity> there was a study done in ETWOLD [19:53] <theking> I was hoping for something really out there [19:53] <Marlowe> I wanted to live a couple of days worth of dream time [19:53] <@Serenity> they wanted the lucid dreamer to move their eyes to count out what they thought would be 10 seconds [19:54] <@Serenity> and it was damn close to real time [19:54] <theking> That's where I heard it from [19:54] <theking> pity [19:54] <@Serenity> some people do try "time dilation" techniques [19:54] <@Serenity> i'm not too familiar with those [19:54] <Vesterguard> let me guess.. pretty advanced? [19:54] <@Serenity> but... to my understanding of it... [19:54] <Linkster17> well there are techniques for time dilation and quit typing faster lol [19:54] <@Serenity> you look at your hand and start counting [19:54] <@Serenity> each second, you imagine time is stretching you [19:54] <@Serenity> stretching out, rather [19:55] <@Serenity> that seems to work for some [19:55] <@Serenity> I have a friend who asks her dream, "Please do not end until I am able to complete my task" [19:56] <@Serenity> and that works for her [19:56] <Linkster17> there is also one where u imagine a clock, and you take the 12 and try to fit 24 or 48 hours [19:56] <@Serenity> or... you could imagine a montage [19:56] <Vesterguard> Yeah we need a montage! [19:56] <@Serenity> put some funky 80's music for a good effect [19:56] <Vesterguard> ^^ [19:56] <theking> "you're the best... around" [19:56] <Vesterguard> lol [19:56] <@Serenity> okays... [19:57] <@Serenity> so lets say your dream vision starts fading [19:57] <@Serenity> you can try rubbing your hands together [19:57] <@Serenity> touch something [19:57] <@Serenity> or shout "clarity now!" [19:57] <@Serenity> all of which have some degree of success for people [19:58] <@Serenity> lets say it STILL fades out and now you're awake [19:58] <@Serenity> REALITY CHECK [19:58] <@Serenity> it could be a false awakening [19:58] <@Serenity> always, always, always RC when you wake up [19:58] <@Serenity> it's a good habit [19:58] <@Serenity> let's say you're awake [19:58] <@Serenity> at this point, you can try to DEILD back in [19:59] <@Serenity> remember... keep your cool [19:59] <@Serenity> stressing out about waking up too soon from a LD will make it harder to get back in [19:59] <@Serenity> there's something really calculated about re-entering [20:00] <@Serenity> it becomes just "something you can do" if that makes any sense [20:01] <@Serenity> i went further than my notes [20:01] <@Serenity> thinking if there something i can add [20:01] <theking> Good enough though [20:01] <theking> I may try DEILDing if I can help [20:01] <@Serenity> oh right... okay lets say the DEILD fails... have a look at the time. the unfortunate part about DILDs, especially, is ... you may have become lucid RIGHT at the end of the REM period [20:02] <@Serenity> it just might be that time to wake up [20:02] <@Serenity> one thing i should note about DEILDs... [20:02] <AstralFae18> D: [20:02] <@Serenity> that Recall vs DEILD argument [20:02] <@Serenity> i refuse to try chaining if i haven't been able to recall at least 2 dreams a night [20:03] <@Serenity> you really should choose recall in favour of DEILDing if recall is a struggle at the moment [20:03] <@Serenity> like right now, recall has been a pretty big struggle for me because my sleep went all wonky [20:03] <@Serenity> so i won't DEILD [20:04] <@Serenity> unless i woke from a lucid [20:04] <@Serenity> then i might try before i write it down [20:04] <@Serenity> but i won't try to DEILD from a non-lucid until my recall is solid again

[Serenity]

For classes August 17-25, 2010 *Reserved*

[Serenity]

This concludes the IRC/class portion of the course. Please remember to have any assignments and missed-class summaries completed by Friday, September 3, 2010 midnight (PDT) / 7am (UTC)! If you have ANY questions at all, don't hesitate to PM me Also, if you have any comments or criticism about my course, please stop by the http://www.dreamviews.com/f81/comment-box-96881/ as it's really helpful for future students in determining whether it's worth their time!