Lucid Dream Meditation

[waving on oceans]

Hey everyone, I am opening up this thread so we can all discuss class, technique, Q&A, and any other class related subjects. Hope everyone finds their way here I will be posting the syllabus here as well as new assignments. Thanks!

[Sylph]

"I see you."

[lemmefly]

Hey guys, here is the log of our second chat session with waving on oceans for everyone who missed the class or just to re-read. Enjoy! Spoiler for Chat-Log Session 2: [23:59] <Morphenius> Hello everyone! [23:59] <lemmefly> hi all [23:59] <Sylph> Hello [23:59] <@waving^on^oceans> hey lemmefly! [23:59] <!Alex> alright [00:00] <!Alex> still, if u need my assistance, just say my name, it gives me a signal [00:00] <Requiem> hey, i asked a question last class and i don't remember getting an answer [00:00] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks for your help alex! [00:00] <@waving^on^oceans> oh sorry requiem what was the question [00:01] <Requiem> After practicing meditation and mindfulness for awhile, what changes take place in waking consciousness? [00:01] <Requiem> Does that make sense? [00:01] <@waving^on^oceans> yep [00:02] <Requiem> And what changes take place in dream consciousness? [00:02] <@waving^on^oceans> k so the way i like to think of it is during meditation we are "clearing the waters" of the mind [00:02] == GlaringDream [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [00:02] <@waving^on^oceans> these shifts of awareness eventually trickle into our normal life [00:02] <@waving^on^oceans> its just like working out [00:03] <@waving^on^oceans> right after a workout you might have the "pump" but then it goes away [00:03] <@waving^on^oceans> but over time the effects add up [00:04] <@waving^on^oceans> personally, I dont know the world seems more bright and alive [00:04] <lemmefly> i had some similar experiences during the last weeks [00:04] <@waving^on^oceans> did that help requiem? [00:05] <@waving^on^oceans> right on lemme [00:05] <Requiem> eh, i'll just have to wait and see [00:05] <lemmefly> sometimes i walk past an alley of nice bright green trees and all of a sudden get that silly grin on my face [00:05] <@waving^on^oceans> exactly! [00:05] <Requiem> thanks [00:05] <Requiem> waiting is [00:06] <@waving^on^oceans> requiem- if you give it a serious shot and you have some of these experiences that will be enough to grab your attention i think [00:06] <@waving^on^oceans> brb phone [00:06] <@waving^on^oceans> k [00:07] <Sylph> lemmefly - You mean you're noticing stuff more? [00:07] <lemmefly> yes, the point is i have never been much of a nature guy [00:08] <lemmefly> and now suddenly i notice a cool landscape and feel good about it [00:08] <lemmefly> hard to explain [00:08] <Sylph> Try checking out clouds. Most cool. [00:09] <lemmefly> hah yeah, i can imagine [00:09] <lemmefly> i like everything that has cool colors [00:09] <@waving^on^oceans> i agree its hard to describe the added value [00:09] <lemmefly> like a cherry tree with white leaves [00:09] <@waving^on^oceans> me too, anything green and alive [00:10] <@waving^on^oceans> so any whos [00:10] <@waving^on^oceans> k should we wait a few minutes for people? [00:10] <lemmefly> do you think more will come? [00:10] <Sylph> 2 aren't comming. Can't remember who else is missing... [00:10] <@waving^on^oceans> i duno, we can get started if you guys are ready [00:11] <lemmefly> will the chat be saved this time? [00:11] <Morphenius> i'm certainly ready [00:11] <lemmefly> yea me too [00:11] <@waving^on^oceans> il ask about the chat being saved, i still dont know where that goes [00:11] <lemmefly> one of us could just copy and paste it [00:12] <@waving^on^oceans> ok so what id like to do today is get into some directions for basic settled meditation [00:12] <@waving^on^oceans> il ask before we close it out [00:12] <lemmefly> i can do it if you want [00:12] <lemmefly> but go ahead [00:12] <Sylph> I had meant to do that last week but my connection crashed. [00:12] <@waving^on^oceans> id like to just re-emphasive a few things [00:13] <@waving^on^oceans> lemmefly sent me am email with several good questions [00:13] == JesterKK [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [00:14] <@waving^on^oceans> he was asking that since I was meditating for like 9 years off and on before I had big break throughs that this might be a way to guage how long it takes [00:14] <@waving^on^oceans> well i dont think that is necessary [00:14] <@waving^on^oceans> the reason i want to show you guys this is because with the kind of mental work we are doing two things are necessary [00:14] <@waving^on^oceans> a method and a catalyst [00:14] <@waving^on^oceans> the meditation is the method [00:15] <@waving^on^oceans> thats the stuff you "do" [00:15] <@waving^on^oceans> the catalyst is something, some internal energy that comes about (after the method has been in effect and done its job) so that the breakthroughs can come out [00:16] <@waving^on^oceans> Lucid Dreaming is the catalyst I will be pushing that you use [00:16] <@waving^on^oceans> other catalysts include fasting, extremely long meditation sessions, near death experiences...etc etc etc [00:17] <@waving^on^oceans> those kind of things throw a major screw into the mental flow and force the change [00:17] <@waving^on^oceans> dreaming is ideal for this change to come! [00:17] <@waving^on^oceans> you are in deep relaxation and disconnected from the body-association [00:17] == Specialis^Sapientia [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [00:18] <@waving^on^oceans> this is my hope that you all can learn, then apply, the method and once that is in place then try to throw in the catalyst [00:18] <@waving^on^oceans> does that make sense? [00:18] <lemmefly> absolutely [00:19] <Sylph> yeah [00:19] <JesterKK> yeah [00:19] <GlaringDream> Yes. [00:19] <@waving^on^oceans> ok cool [00:19] <Morphenius> Yes. [00:19] <lemmefly> although i am not quite sure how strong the effects will be later in waking life [00:20] <@waving^on^oceans> lemmefly has another good point- these break throughs also change the quality of your waking practice (in my experience) [00:20] <@waving^on^oceans> bridging the two later could take some time and practice but that we can work on at a later time [00:20] <@waving^on^oceans> for now I want everyone who wants to give this a shot to focus on the meditation [00:21] <JesterKK> are you meant to do something particular in lucid dreams to catalyse meditation [00:21] <Morphenius> [QUESTION] By "the two", do you mean waking life and dreaming life? [/QUESTION] [00:21] <@waving^on^oceans> @morphenius- yes [00:22] <@waving^on^oceans> @Jester- mediation during the lucid dream would be the catalyst [00:22] <@waving^on^oceans> my expereince is that the detachment from the body really allows you to go right to the source [00:23] <@waving^on^oceans> im hoping that you can use Lucid Dream Meditation to make advances more quickly than how I did it [00:23] <JesterKK> is it difficult to stay lucid with such a lack of stimulation? [00:23] <lemmefly> one question that is burning me since you described your LD meditation: do you close your eyes while doing it in your dreams? [00:23] <@waving^on^oceans> i was just experimenting with it and I found that, once it happened, it was very profound [00:24] <@waving^on^oceans> good questions [00:24] <Sylph> I'm betting I'll hust doze off in the dream [00:24] <@waving^on^oceans> @Jester- for me no, the experience was so rivetting all my attention was on it [00:25] <@waving^on^oceans> @lemmefly- It was different. I didn't have a body recognition thing going on- I was just in a big spherical abstract place full of light and patterns [00:25] <lemmefly> right from the beginning? [00:26] <@waving^on^oceans> well i was first aware that I was dreaming, then I was aware that my real body was in bed and for a moment I was in that space where you can feel your body and at the same time are in the dreaming landscape [00:27] <@waving^on^oceans> the next thing I decided to meditate and It happened so fast....it felt like I was sling-shot to another place almost immediately [00:27] <lemmefly> yeah i know that feeling, it's always very delicate for me not to wake up from that state [00:27] <@waving^on^oceans> ok ok [00:27] <@waving^on^oceans> so hold on one sec guys [00:27] <@waving^on^oceans> i know you all want to know about the dream part cause that is the goal [00:27] <@waving^on^oceans> but I got to it without knowing what i was aiming for [00:28] <@waving^on^oceans> the meditation, the method, is where the work needs to be done [00:28] <@waving^on^oceans> once you put the time in there and can get to that settled state of mind bringing it into the dream should cause some interesting things to happen [00:29] <@waving^on^oceans> but I dont want to work on that til everyone here is reporting progress on the meditation end [00:29] <@waving^on^oceans> progress would be for example- someone telling me "oh I was meditating and my hands felt really big" [00:30] <lemmefly> haha [00:30] <@waving^on^oceans> or "I was meditating and I had this tingling sensation on the top of my head" [00:30] <lemmefly> this morning i was meditating and felt like my body was going up and down for a while, a little dizzy [00:30] <@waving^on^oceans> or "I was meditating and I saw this really abstract light/color/pattern thing" [00:30] <lemmefly> not too intense though [00:30] <Morphenius> Huh! Yeah, I've had a variation of that. When I'm meditating regularly, after 10-20 minutes I'll feel "huge", like if I lean over too far I'll smack my head against the wall that's 25 feet away. [00:31] <@waving^on^oceans> yep thats it lemmefly... [00:31] <@waving^on^oceans> thats how it starts [00:31] <Sylph> Last night I started feeling my hands go real warm but never got around to find out if it was just the bed cover... [00:31] <@waving^on^oceans> cool Morphenius [00:31] <@waving^on^oceans> thats it [00:32] <@waving^on^oceans> eventually what I am aiming to do is make you all really big ballons with heavy hands filled with starts and patterns haha [00:32] <Sylph> hehe [00:32] <lemmefly> lol that sounds cool [00:32] <JesterKK> nice [00:32] <@waving^on^oceans> sounds crazy but ah......feels like the perfect place to be [00:32] <@waving^on^oceans> thats what it feels like [00:33] <lemmefly> is it always the same feeling for you now? [00:33] <@waving^on^oceans> no, sometimes its more sometimes its less [00:33] <lemmefly> ok [00:33] <@waving^on^oceans> but then again its not like a rating system [00:34] <@waving^on^oceans> when I get those really really awesome moments, I feel its just a blessing from above [00:34] <@waving^on^oceans> but that is part the reason why I am teaching this class, I would like to gain more ability to access it [00:35] == Sylph [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 90 seconds] [00:35] <@waving^on^oceans> i mean yeah if I were to sit for 8 hours in meditation (which I really really really don't want to do) im sure by the end I would be hovering in that zone [00:35] <lemmefly> so how often do you reach that state yourself? [00:36] <@waving^on^oceans> but to me science and spirituality together are going to reshape this issue and take it out of the mysterious box and into the how to box [00:37] <@waving^on^oceans> on tuesday I went to my weekly meditation session at the tibetan monastery I go to and that day I was bigger than the room i was sitting in [00:37] <@waving^on^oceans> lol [00:37] <lemmefly> man that sounds so cool [00:37] <JesterKK> sweet [00:37] <lemmefly> how long did it take you to reach that state? can you even tell? [00:37] == Sylph [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [00:38] <Sylph> Drat! Crashed again... [00:38] <@waving^on^oceans> but to actually be in that place where you are in the light, I've had that happen maybe 15 times in my life....including the dream induced ones, my memories of sliping into that state as a kid, and my real breakthrough meditation sessions [00:38] <Requiem> it seems like a lot of us, myself included, are perhaps too interested in progress [00:38] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [00:38] <lemmefly> yea obviously ^^ [00:39] <@waving^on^oceans> yes the Buddha never talked about what happens when you get there, he just talked about the way [00:39] <Requiem> isn't there some riddle like "realize there is no progress to be made"? [00:39] <@waving^on^oceans> he felt people get caught up on the destination [00:39] <@waving^on^oceans> yep [00:40] <@waving^on^oceans> this is basically mental masterbation lol [00:40] <@waving^on^oceans> just without the negative implications [00:40] <@waving^on^oceans> we are playing with our own minds, its kind of a trip [00:40] <lemmefly> [00:41] <@waving^on^oceans> so now let me ask, has anyone tried to meditate since our last five minute teaser session? [00:41] <Morphenius> If we take Dr. Taylor's left-brain/right-brain thing as accurate, then it seems like focusing on results is engaging left-brain thinking, which discourages right-brain thinking. So it's not so much that results are a problem as that the act of focusing on them engages the wrong part of the brain. [00:41] <@waving^on^oceans> very insightful [00:41] <@waving^on^oceans> yes i agree with that [00:41] <lemmefly> i have, 20mins a day [00:41] <@waving^on^oceans> but, you have to do the work [00:41] <Morphenius> Yes. I've been engaging in the analytical meditation that the Dalai Lama suggests in "An Open Heart". [00:41] <@waving^on^oceans> its funny [00:42] <Sylph> I've been doing it for the past 2 weeks. [00:42] <@waving^on^oceans> you have to do the work and then totally drop it haha [00:42] <Sylph> Trying at least [00:42] <@waving^on^oceans> good lemme [00:42] <@waving^on^oceans> ok good im not askin you go into monk mode, just keep checking into that space [00:42] <lemmefly> some sessions i feel like a real loser though, cause i just cant keep my concentration even for a minute [00:42] <Requiem> i get away from the computer and meditate before i sleep [00:43] <Sylph> this [00:43] <JesterKK> i've done it a bit [00:43] <@waving^on^oceans> once you all have a solid understanding and begin to have those tell-tale signs of progress we can work on the LD part of the technique [00:43] <lemmefly> is there a special posture for meditation that you would advocate? [00:44] <lemmefly> because my back and feet really start to hurt after about 30min [00:44] <@waving^on^oceans> not really, just be comfortable and keep your spine straight [00:44] <JesterKK> hmm i like to do it lying on my back. cos i can't fall asleep in that position, but its also very comfortable [00:44] <@waving^on^oceans> ok good question (cause I haven't been asking for long sessions from you guys) but yes anything over 30 minutes will start to tweek your feet [00:45] <@waving^on^oceans> like what I was saying about the tibetan monastery I go to....my feet were screaming by the end [00:45] <lemmefly> yea thats why i cut it to 20mins, because after that i can concentrate on nothing but the pain [00:46] <@waving^on^oceans> I would suggest: sit with a pillow under you, but only sit the very edge of you butt on the edge of the pillow (don't sit right on top of it) I also like to lean agains a wall with another pillow against my back [00:46] <@waving^on^oceans> that way you don't have to worry about falling over if you fall asleep lol [00:46] <@waving^on^oceans> which hopefully will happen at the begining for you guys [00:47] <Specialis^Sapientia> You can also lie down on the bed and meditate, you won't hurt then [00:47] <@waving^on^oceans> especially when i start asking for 30 to 45 minute sessions lol [00:47] <@waving^on^oceans> yep true Specialis [00:47] <@waving^on^oceans> but you increase the chance that you will fall asleep [00:47] <@waving^on^oceans> and personally, I think it is best not to meditate where you sleep [00:48] <@waving^on^oceans> make where you meditate a spot that is meant just for that [00:48] <Specialis^Sapientia> Yes, don't do it if you are tired, but if you have energy it's good [00:48] <@waving^on^oceans> as you do this practice that habbit will help que your mind into "ok, we are meditating now. time to be alert yet quiet" [00:49] <@waving^on^oceans> hmm actually that will be a good transition, asking you to meditate before you go to bed (lying in bed before sleep) [00:49] <Requiem> hey, i'll be back! [00:49] <@waving^on^oceans> yea I will be asking you to do that at some poin [00:49] <@waving^on^oceans> point* [00:49] <Specialis^Sapientia> You can also sit in a chair, it's no problem [00:50] <@waving^on^oceans> yep [00:50] <@waving^on^oceans> ok so guys....my friend is in town from NY and I just saw the time [00:50] <@waving^on^oceans> meeting him in 30 min [00:50] <Specialis^Sapientia> I find sitting in a chair facing the sun great [00:51] <@waving^on^oceans> so real quick I would like to go through some meditation tips for your next session [00:51] <Morphenius> Okay. [00:51] <@waving^on^oceans> I agree!! meditation in the sun is excellent....oooo I might give that as your next assignment!! [00:52] <@waving^on^oceans> that is a good way to get you guys into paying attention to the light behind closed eyes [00:52] <Specialis^Sapientia> Yeah [00:52] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks specialis, that is a great suggestion [00:53] <@waving^on^oceans> specialis, not to put you on the spot but just want to ask, do you often get the light behind closed eyes?? [00:53] <@waving^on^oceans> if so can you describe it, i think it would be good for people to get a description of it [00:53] <@waving^on^oceans> i could do it, but id like to hear your experiences [00:55] <Specialis^Sapientia> Do you mean from the meditation? [00:55] <@waving^on^oceans> yea, that electricity behind your eyelids thing that happens [00:55] <@waving^on^oceans> its hard to describe [00:56] <@waving^on^oceans> haha ok il start [00:57] <Specialis^Sapientia> Strangely no, unlike most people, I don't get many visuals during my meditation. I somtimes have swirling purple blubs but it's not directly related to my meditation. Maybe if I focused on visuals I would, but I don't think about it. [00:57] <@waving^on^oceans> yay! [00:57] <@waving^on^oceans> aww [00:57] <@waving^on^oceans> lol [00:57] <@waving^on^oceans> ok well then lets work on this then for our next meditation [00:58] <@waving^on^oceans> so when you go to meditate I would like for you to: [00:58] <@waving^on^oceans> take three deep breaths [00:58] <@waving^on^oceans> focus on relaxing your body [00:58] <@waving^on^oceans> adjust yourself to be comfortable [00:58] <@waving^on^oceans> and settle into a relaxed breathing [00:59] <@waving^on^oceans> your mind is directly connected to your breath [00:59] <@waving^on^oceans> fast and shallow breath correlates with a stressed state of mind [01:00] <@waving^on^oceans> slow and rythmic breathing corelates to a relaxed state of mind [01:00] <@waving^on^oceans> the link works both ways- you are mentally relaxed your breath is deep, calm, and steady [01:01] <@waving^on^oceans> when you breath deep, calm and steady your mental state will match your breath [01:01] <@waving^on^oceans> it works both ways [01:01] <@waving^on^oceans> now, don't open your eyes [01:02] <@waving^on^oceans> dont scratch yourself (really, resist the urge...unless like a rabbid mouse is attacking you or something lol) [01:02] <@waving^on^oceans> just sit there and be open to the space [01:03] <@waving^on^oceans> now your assignment [01:03] <@waving^on^oceans> lets mix it up [01:03] <@waving^on^oceans> one session of settled meditation in a dim room [01:04] <@waving^on^oceans> one session of settled meditation facing the sun (early morning or mid afternoon are the best- you can sit normally facing the sun and it not at its zenith [01:04] <@waving^on^oceans> while doing this meditation focus on what you see behind closed eyes [01:04] <@waving^on^oceans> is it just black? [01:05] <@waving^on^oceans> take another look if you think so [01:05] <@waving^on^oceans> sound good?? [01:05] <JesterKK> it's always just black for me.. [01:05] <Sylph> K.I can usually see my blod vessels... [01:05] <JesterKK> when i've done it in the past [01:06] <Morphenius> [QUESTION] I usually find that I can slip into a meditative state if I sort of "turn off" my vision - not just see black, but kind of deactivate the part of my brain that bothers letting me know that I can see at all. Is that a problem? [/QUESTION] [01:06] <Sylph> Oh, cool. [01:06] <Requiem> QUESTION does this mean class is winding down? (i'd like your thoughts on a link real quick after) [01:07] <@waving^on^oceans> haha wow morphenius [01:07] <@waving^on^oceans> no, having that ability would be very useful [01:08] <@waving^on^oceans> sure requiem il stay around for a bit [01:08] <@waving^on^oceans> im gona have to jump outa here tho in about 10 minutes [01:08] <Morphenius> Okay, thank you. :-) [01:09] <@waving^on^oceans> @Jester- keep trying, it comes when your mental state has already begun to open. It can take several minutes [01:09] <@waving^on^oceans> but sometimes I also dont see it, its a phenominon i want you to explore [01:09] <@waving^on^oceans> another thing [01:09] <@waving^on^oceans> you can do this right now [01:09] <@waving^on^oceans> and relates to what morphenius was talking about [01:10] <@waving^on^oceans> look at something in your room (not the computer, you've been staring at it too long already lol) [01:10] <@waving^on^oceans> now while you are looking at that thing (whatever it is) try to see if you can differenciate: [01:11] <@waving^on^oceans> the object of what you are viewing [01:11] <@waving^on^oceans> and the viewing of the object [01:11] <Sylph> huh? [01:11] <lemmefly> wow that sounds abstract [01:11] <@waving^on^oceans> the best way to say that I guess would be: don't look at what you are looking at, look at the looking [01:12] <Sylph> k... [01:12] <@waving^on^oceans> its hard [01:12] <Morphenius> [QUESTION] I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I thought in Buddhist traditions, you find eventually that those two are the same thing. Could you try rephrasing it? [/QUESTION] [01:12] <@waving^on^oceans> hehe, but how did those guys figure out enough about it to say something about it?? [01:12] <@waving^on^oceans> they explored it [01:13] <@waving^on^oceans> now you gotta go explore it too [01:13] <@waving^on^oceans> try and experiment [01:13] <Morphenius> Okay. [01:13] <@waving^on^oceans> look at it directly, look at it from the side of your eye [01:13] <@waving^on^oceans> do you see any faults in the quality of your vision? [01:13] <Morphenius> *lol* Sure! I'm wearing glasses! [01:13] <JesterKK> its like im not focussing on anything, but im looking in the direction of the object [01:13] <JesterKK> everything blurs [01:14] <Sylph> yeah, my glasses are on the way [01:14] <@waving^on^oceans> for me of course as I can see small halos?? hard to say....i have actually figured out they are tiny molecules of stuff INSIDE THE LIQUID IN MY EYE haha [01:14] <Sylph> Other than that, not really [01:14] <JesterKK> oh yeah.. those protein things right? [01:14] <@waving^on^oceans> i can't tell you how hard I tripped when I realized you REALLY CAN FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION TO NOTICE MOLECULAR STUFF [01:15] <@waving^on^oceans> i dont know what they are but i had heard of them and noticed that when i shift my eyes sometimes they would move [01:15] <@waving^on^oceans> like im looking out my top left viewing field [01:15] <@waving^on^oceans> and i see a distortion [01:15] <Morphenius> Yeah, I got a similar kind of weird shift in perspective when I realized that I could see the granularity of my vision. Consciousness is actually more refined than the photoreceptive cells of the retina allow for. [01:16] <@waving^on^oceans> then i move my eyes and it is still there, then I move them again and that distortion as then moved to a slighly different possition in my eye [01:16] <JesterKK> i imagine that's why some lucid dreams are even more clear than life [01:16] <Morphenius> I think so. [01:16] <@waving^on^oceans> they best time to see those kind of distortions is when you are looking into a blue sky or there is something white in your field of vision [01:16] <JesterKK> yeah those are proteins on the protective layer of the eye i think [01:16] <JesterKK> yeah i see them when i look at the blue sky [01:17] <@waving^on^oceans> you will see these little spheres of some kind of distortion [01:17] <lemmefly> oh like those little dots? [01:17] <lemmefly> isnt that just a biological effect? [01:17] <@waving^on^oceans> yea, but it draws your attention into the mechanism [01:18] <@waving^on^oceans> those are things that, form an analytical meditatino stand point are important [01:18] <@waving^on^oceans> ok guys so im sorry i gota jet here [01:18] <@waving^on^oceans> if i hold off much longer i will be late [01:18] <Morphenius> Thank you for the class, Professor! [01:18] <@waving^on^oceans> Thank You!! [01:18] <lemmefly> looking forward to next time [01:19] <@waving^on^oceans> I hope you guys enjoyed it [01:19] <JesterKK> ok [01:19] <Requiem> ok [01:19] <Requiem> thanks [01:19] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks [01:19] <lemmefly> sure did [01:19] <JesterKK> see u next time [01:19] <Sylph> yeah, thanks, Bye [01:19] <Requiem> i'll send you the pm [01:19] == Morphenius [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [01:19] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks requiem i will get back to you tonight [01:19] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks again guys! [01:20] == Requiem [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Leaving] [01:20] <lemmefly> bye [01:21] == Jakro [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] [01:21] <lemmefly> should I put the chatlog up in a special thread? [01:21] <Specialis^Sapientia> cya [01:21] == GlaringDream [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [01:22] <@waving^on^oceans> hey lemme [01:22] <lemmefly> yes [01:22] <@waving^on^oceans> yeah if you wouldn't mind i think that would be helpful [01:22] <@waving^on^oceans> hey alex

[Suslik]

Hi, I was away, so missed 2 sessions. If i understood correctly task for next week is 2 meditation sessions each day, one in the dark place, one in the sun? Another question: When next meeting chat gonna be?

[waving on oceans]

Hi, I was away, so missed 2 sessions. If i understood correctly task for next week is 2 meditation sessions each day, one in the dark place, one in the sun? Another question: When next meeting chat gonna be? Hey Suslik- if you want to do two a day Im behind you 100% but I was only asking for at least once for both....the more you do tho the better!!

[Samael]

Hi oceans. I missed the last class. Will you be posting assignments in this thread?

[waving on oceans]

Hey Lemmefly, thanks for posting the contents of last week's chat here on the new thread @Samael- its all good, I expect people to miss some chats, its understandable. The assignment is in the pull down menu of Lemmefly's above post. We decided that this weeks assignment is to do two sessions of settled meditation (calming the mind) one in a dimly lit room and the other in the sun. I am hoping to draw people's attention to what lies behind closed eyes. And yes, new topics, assignments, etc. will be posted here. Thanks!

[Hidden]

I won't be able to come to the chat tomorrow... sorry! =/ Assuming there is one tomorrow, that is...

[waving on oceans]

Hey guys I'm on my friends iPhone I can't get into chat... Talk amongst urselves and il get bak to u all tonight, I apologize!

[waving on oceans]

Hey guys here is the copy of todays third class: Spoiler for Class Three: :12] == waving^on^oceans [[email protected]] has joined #DVA [12:12] == mode/#DVA [+o waving^on^oceans] by DreamBot [12:13] <@waving^on^oceans> geeze lol [12:13] <@waving^on^oceans> im so sorry guys!! [12:13] <@waving^on^oceans> lol [12:13] <Sylph> Lost again, heh? [12:13] <Sylph> [12:13] <@waving^on^oceans> [12:14] <@waving^on^oceans> dude i just rushed from work to get here again [12:14] <@waving^on^oceans> i thought saturdays would be good for me but that hasn't been the case [12:14] <Sylph> That's bad.... [12:15] <Sylph> Maybe you should try changinf the shedule here [12:15] <Sylph> changing* [12:15] <@waving^on^oceans> yea i think we will have to do that [12:15] <@waving^on^oceans> man work is taking over my life [12:16] <@waving^on^oceans> my boss got burnt last week on a job [12:16] <Sylph> Ouch! [12:16] <@waving^on^oceans> so this week ive been working little extra [12:16] <@waving^on^oceans> yea its pretty bad [12:16] <Sylph> Restaurant? [12:16] <@waving^on^oceans> 3rd degree over a lot of his arm [12:16] <@waving^on^oceans> no solar- he got hit with super heated water coming from a solar hot water panel [12:17] <Sylph> OUCH [12:17] <Sylph> That thing can over 70ºC, [12:17] <@waving^on^oceans> actually my being late has been every day partly due to me running back home from work and then having trouble signing in lol [12:18] <@waving^on^oceans> it was about 150-180F i don't know what that would be in C [12:18] <@waving^on^oceans> yeah its bad [12:18] <Sylph> Try keeping a text file on your desktop with the sign in line [12:18] <@waving^on^oceans> ive got my burn scares too lol [12:18] <@waving^on^oceans> yea im going to write it down [12:19] <@waving^on^oceans> i duno il figure it out [12:19] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [12:19] <@waving^on^oceans> so i guess everyone lost faith since i missed last week huh? [12:19] <Sylph> According to the posts on the meditation thread, everyone got other stuff to do [12:20] <@waving^on^oceans> haha and funny so do i [12:20] <@waving^on^oceans> well i will send out a general PM seeing if anyone is still interested [12:20] <Sylph> I eonder what happened to Jesterkk, tho [12:20] <@waving^on^oceans> yea i see him there [12:20] <@waving^on^oceans> wonder [12:21] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [12:21] <Sylph> [12:21] <@waving^on^oceans> well thanks for holding out man [12:21] <@waving^on^oceans> i have to say if i rushed home to find no one here man [12:21] <@waving^on^oceans> i would just trip [12:21] <Sylph> hadn't used IRC since the 90's [12:21] <@waving^on^oceans> i know me either [12:22] <Sylph> glad to be of service, haha [12:22] <@waving^on^oceans> its intesting [12:23] <Sylph> I couldn't get it right on my first day either [12:23] <Sylph> I think I was beggining to tick Alex off [12:24] <@waving^on^oceans> yea man i had trouble since day one [12:24] <@waving^on^oceans> its just not what i was expecting [12:24] <Sylph> what do u mean [12:26] <@waving^on^oceans> well before the chat was all up and running [12:26] <@waving^on^oceans> me and the people runnin this show were talking about all the details [12:27] <@waving^on^oceans> until maybe two days before the chat i still had no idea where it was going to be [12:27] <@waving^on^oceans> i kept asking, but the details i was getting weren't really answering my questions [12:27] <@waving^on^oceans> i was late to join the chat the first day and that was only bc someone bumped me in [12:27] <@waving^on^oceans> oh well [12:28] <@waving^on^oceans> so Sylph you made my day just being here [12:28] <JesterKK> whats up [12:28] <@waving^on^oceans> much love [12:28] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [12:28] <@waving^on^oceans> oh and theres Jester [12:29] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks for showing up guys [12:29] <JesterKK> yeah i forgot i had this window open [12:29] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [12:29] <Sylph> *blushes* [12:29] <Sylph> I Jester [12:29] <Sylph> Hi [12:29] <Sylph> I mean [12:29] <@waving^on^oceans> well man i am going to send out a group PM to see if anyone wants to keep up the class [12:29] <@waving^on^oceans> seems like our last convo was pretty good [12:29] <@waving^on^oceans> i was looking forward to last weeks chat but something came up [12:30] <JesterKK> yeah I just read it now [12:30] <@waving^on^oceans> i posted on the thread that i couldn't make it and that I was on my friends iPhone [12:30] <Sylph> Yeah, I saw that [12:30] <JesterKK> oh right [12:31] <@waving^on^oceans> so i really to apologize but like i was telling sylph my boss got burned last week [12:31] <@waving^on^oceans> so ive been in the office way more than normal [12:31] <@waving^on^oceans> that comes first, but i do feel bad i let a couple people down [12:31] <JesterKK> yeah dont worry about it people will understand [12:32] <Sylph> Yep [12:32] <@waving^on^oceans> hopefully so [12:32] <@waving^on^oceans> so since its just the three of us [12:33] <@waving^on^oceans> whats the game plan lol [12:33] <Sylph> haha [12:33] <JesterKK> haha [12:33] <JesterKK> oh snap [12:33] <Sylph> idk, I wish I could say I was making progress but ... [12:34] <Sylph> this hasn't been a good week meditation wise [12:34] <JesterKK> I've been having a tough time lately as well.. [12:34] <@waving^on^oceans> where is it that you are having trouble? [12:35] <Sylph> I still feel I don't quite understand this [12:35] <@waving^on^oceans> keeping your mind focused on the meditation, or sitting down to meditate [12:35] <@waving^on^oceans> ok [12:35] <@waving^on^oceans> keep going [12:35] <Sylph> although after reading a book Morphenius suggested [12:35] <JesterKK> which book was that? [12:35] <@waving^on^oceans> which book was that [12:35] <JesterKK> lol [12:35] <Sylph> Let me check [12:36] <Sylph> It's about dream yoga [12:36] <@waving^on^oceans> dream yoga is advanced [12:37] <Sylph> I got that the ref on my desktop but by now I have too much other stuff here as well :p [12:37] <@waving^on^oceans> were you practicing waking meditation techniques from that book or the sleep practice? [12:38] <Sylph> Just the meditation bit... [12:38] <@waving^on^oceans> ok hmm [12:38] <Sylph> but the explanations were pretty clear in general [12:38] <@waving^on^oceans> well as i haven't read it (or know which one it is) then i can't say about that [12:38] <@waving^on^oceans> hmm [12:38] <@waving^on^oceans> how about we go over basic meditation again [12:39] <@waving^on^oceans> when you sit down we focus on the breath initially [12:39] <@waving^on^oceans> breathing deeply we are focusing to relax and also stay alert [12:40] <@waving^on^oceans> the mind should be aware, but not chattering about unrealities [12:40] <@waving^on^oceans> the body should be relaxed, with good posture [12:40] <@waving^on^oceans> in this state we are purposly turning off the outside sensations [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> try not to think [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> its hard [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> but when you can do this [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> quiet the mind [12:41] <Sylph> That's just it... [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> and sit in stillness [12:41] <Sylph> I can manage not to think [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> it creates a vaacum [12:41] <@waving^on^oceans> ok so what happens when you sit there [12:42] <@waving^on^oceans> what do you think about [12:42] <Sylph> it's the rest that I can seem to grasp, I guess... [12:42] <@waving^on^oceans> ok this is an example of understanding vs implimenting [12:42] <@waving^on^oceans> you can understand the process without going through it [12:42] <@waving^on^oceans> you actually have to sit there and initially struggle [12:43] <Sylph> I guess I turns out to be more an exercise of willpower than anything else [12:43] <@waving^on^oceans> i would say that initially the best thing you can do is: [12:43] <Sylph> and I know that's not quite the point [12:43] <@waving^on^oceans> everytime you find your mind off in some crazy tangent [12:43] <@waving^on^oceans> stop that thought [12:43] <@waving^on^oceans> bring your awareness back to the breath [12:44] <@waving^on^oceans> take three deep breaths [12:44] <@waving^on^oceans> and focus on the feeling of calmness these deep breaths bring [12:44] <JesterKK> when bring my awareness to breathing is it okay that I can hear my thoughts analysing my breathing [12:44] <JesterKK> when I bring* [12:45] <@waving^on^oceans> thats good that you are noticing that [12:45] <JesterKK> I can hear my voice talking about being calm [12:45] <Sylph> That's the kind of thing I can't seem to do [12:45] <@waving^on^oceans> as you work with it the quality of this subtle difference you are noticing will change [12:45] <JesterKK> oh ok [12:45] <@waving^on^oceans> you have to practice [12:46] <JesterKK> but is the target to have absolutely no internal dialogue? [12:46] <@waving^on^oceans> hmmm [12:47] <@waving^on^oceans> there is a point where the internal monologue can jump in to tell you something about the expereince without disturbing it [12:48] <@waving^on^oceans> but initially we are trying to stop it [12:48] <@waving^on^oceans> ok so a little ramble [12:48] <Sylph> [12:48] <@waving^on^oceans> talking about the experience we are trying to cultivate [12:49] <@waving^on^oceans> when you can accomplish the task of shutting off the inner monologue there is a sense of timelessness and unity [12:50] <@waving^on^oceans> time exisits only in a framework that allows for change [12:50] <@waving^on^oceans> seasons are measured by change [12:50] <@waving^on^oceans> the age of something is measured by its wear and tear [12:50] <@waving^on^oceans> the changing words and thoughts in your head also seems to keep the time [12:51] <@waving^on^oceans> if you can focus your concentration on a single point of awareness and it remains in that state, unchanged, time drops out of the experience [12:52] <@waving^on^oceans> you find yourself in a framework free of time [12:52] <JesterKK> what is that single point meant to resemble? [12:53] <@waving^on^oceans> well thats the trick when your focus is complete there is only the expereince of your focus to focus on haha [12:53] <@waving^on^oceans> wow how can i describe that [12:53] <@waving^on^oceans> i can't describe it really [12:54] <@waving^on^oceans> thats the part of the experience you don't have to worry about [12:55] <JesterKK> its unfathomable for me [12:55] <JesterKK> but I'll keep trying [12:55] <@waving^on^oceans> once your concentration is to the point where it is complete and unwavoring (with all internal chatter ceased) another mind explodes into your experiential range [12:55] <@waving^on^oceans> haha [12:55] <@waving^on^oceans> focus on the meditation practice [12:56] <@waving^on^oceans> just breathing [12:56] <@waving^on^oceans> relaxing [12:56] <@waving^on^oceans> being aware of the mind and body [12:56] <@waving^on^oceans> that is the beggining [12:56] <Sylph> Ir seems I can "sikence" but I've yet to learn how to "focus"... [12:56] <Sylph> silence* [12:57] <@waving^on^oceans> keep working with it [12:57] <Sylph> Aha! Found the book! [12:57] <Sylph> The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep Por Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche [12:57] <JesterKK> hmm I think i might have that [12:57] <@waving^on^oceans> as you delve into that realm you will find that you are you own best teacher [12:58] <JesterKK> is it more difficult to meditate if you are distressed [12:58] <JesterKK> from your own experience [12:58] <@waving^on^oceans> hmm il have to check it out, seem like its got a lot of good reviews [12:59] <@waving^on^oceans> what kind of distress? [12:59] <Sylph> Morphenius' link: [12:59] <Sylph> http://books.google.com/books?id=fWz...page&q&f=false [12:59] <JesterKK> like grief, or work stress [12:59] <@waving^on^oceans> sometimes when im disrtressed i will turn to my practice to remind myself to stay calm [12:59] <@waving^on^oceans> but yes [13:00] <Sylph> That's when meditation is more useful, no? [13:00] <@waving^on^oceans> i can definately get worked up sometimes and fail to achieve that [13:01] <@waving^on^oceans> meditation can definately help to strengthen your resolve about something [13:01] <@waving^on^oceans> so when you bump up into situations that cause mental strain [13:01] <@waving^on^oceans> and want to pull you from your goal [13:01] <@waving^on^oceans> reminding yourself about those things on which you are resolved helps [13:02] <@waving^on^oceans> for me i am resolved on the fact that people can make the world a better or worse place [13:03] <@waving^on^oceans> so when im having a bad day i remind myself that being angry isn't going the help me achieve my goals [13:03] <Sylph> Sometimes, just finding resolve would help [13:03] <Sylph> Sometimes, just finding resolve would help [13:03] <Sylph> ups [13:03] <@waving^on^oceans> its more difficult to get into peaceful states of mind after having a day where your mind was in full flight and pulling you all over the place [13:04] <@waving^on^oceans> well guys i have to get back to work lol [13:04] <@waving^on^oceans> thanks for showing! [13:04] <@waving^on^oceans> sorry if this class was not as colorful as the others lol [13:05] <Sylph> OK [13:05] <Sylph> Thanks [13:05] <Sylph> Careful with the hot stuff [13:05] <Sylph> [13:05] <JesterKK> well its not your fault that more people didn't show [13:06] <@waving^on^oceans> its all good [13:06] <@waving^on^oceans> i know this is advanced stuff [13:06] <@waving^on^oceans> we will see what people choose to do with it [13:07] <@waving^on^oceans> i will send out a group PM [13:07] <@waving^on^oceans> see whos still interested

[zebrah]

by waving sorry I couldn't be there perhaps you should make a thread for time sugestions, in your gmt of course. It is kind of a hard time to make It to your classes for me.