Thread: Why is dreamviews more liberal than society at large?

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

When I write a paper in response to someone else, I don't take all their quotes out of context and reply to them one by one. I ascertain the thesis of the argument and reply to it with my own thesis which breaks off into multiple paragraphs from there. You can reply to all my points separately but think in a more cohesive manner.

Ok you don't like my writing style...whoopie. Let's move on.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Otherwise it's basically the same as a straw man, you're misconstruing someone's point by not seeing the forest through the trees. I honestly tried formulating a response to you but your so off base my argument there's not any point to it.

How is it off base? I asked you to show this "fundamental value" in the course of American history. How is it off based to ask you to justify your statement? Why do you treat the United States, an abstraction, as a living entity which can be "invaded" and "cancer"-ous? You said that the US is a hegemony in the Americas, a hegemony being by your definition one state that controls other states therefore implying that the US (a state) controls the Americas (which is a term to include all North, Central and South America states), yet we don't control Canada, Venezuela, Cuba. How can you still consider the US a hegemony in the Americas when it doesn't follow your own definition? Honestly, what is off base about these questions and statements?

You know what, let's just get this over with.

My above response.
*Crickets*
Your Response: You're a troll.

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Ok you don't like my writing style...whoopie. Let's move on.



How is it off base? I asked you to show this "fundamental value" in the course of American history. How is it off based to ask you to justify your statement? Why do you treat the United States, an abstraction, as a living entity which can be "invaded" and "cancer"-ous? You said that the US is a hegemony in the Americas, a hegemony being by your definition one state that controls other states therefore implying that the US (a state) controls the Americas (which is a term to include all North, Central and South America states), yet we don't control Canada, Venezuela, Cuba. How can you still consider the US a hegemony in the Americas when it doesn't follow your own definition? Honestly, what is off base about these questions and statements?

You know what, let's just get this over with.

My above response.
*Crickets*
Your Response: You're a troll.

I suppose this will have to do. But just so you know for future referencw hen you pick my posts apart I won't reply. I'm sure you could care less, but if you do reply to me in the future you should keep that in mind.

The answer to your question is very simple. In my opinion, groups of organisms are a more complex organism than single organisms, but they do not stand apart from the same basic mechanisms and vulnerabilities of any single organism. The actual cancer itself transforms to mean different things but in your body cancer can be conveyed as the cells of your body changing their DNA (thus changing their behavior) to a more selfish routine. A very direct metaphor for this would be embezzlement when people don't pay their fair share of the tax burden as cancer cells often skim nutrients off the top that they ought to be feeding forward. However, cancer and disease take many forms in a society.

Nonetheless, what I am essentially arguing is that society is a living organism, just a more complex one than the individuals within it.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

The answer to your question is very simple. In my opinion, groups of organisms are a more complex organism than single organisms, but they do not stand apart from the same basic mechanisms and vulnerabilities of any single organism. The actual cancer itself transforms to mean different things but in your body cancer can be conveyed as the cells of your body changing their DNA (thus changing their behavior) to a more selfish routine. A very direct metaphor for this would be embezzlement when people don't pay their fair share of the tax burden as cancer cells often skim nutrients off the top that they ought to be feeding forward. However, cancer and disease take many forms in a society.

Nonetheless, what I am essentially arguing is that society is a living organism, just a more complex one than the individuals within it.

So essentially you think there is this living organism that actually is tangible and exists on the physical plane and this orgasm is the "United States?" This is the "complex one" you speak of?

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

So essentially you think there is this living organism that actually is tangible and exists on the physical plane and this orgasm is the "United States?" This is the "complex one" you speak of?

Human beings are made up of individual cells working in harmony right? Why is it so difficult to expand your awareness to consider society as a collection of individual cells working towards harmony? Truthfully as of now it's a very confused organism but the Laws and Traditions we live by are the DNA this confused organism is currently operating with and our inevitable goal is to become more like a properly cohesive organism. Nationalists make up the core of the Social Organism I am referring to because they do not change, they do not adapt. They preserve these traditions over time and protect them by being loyal to them and proud of them.

Every human being is raised by a collection of beliefs and traditions given to them by parents, teachers and anyone they listen to. Obviously the person does not agree with every single idea they're given as so many conflict, but the person consciously weighs them all in order to form homogeneous response. Do you think you're a single identity locked within your body? Your a collection of conditioning, about 50% from your genes and 50% from your environment. Societies at large are essentially the same thing. Communities, Cities, States and Nations are all just the macroversion of the same evolutionary mechanism.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Human beings are made up of individual cells working in harmony right? Why is it so difficult to expand your awareness to consider society as a collection of individual cells working towards harmony? Truthfully as of now it's a very confused organism but the Laws and Traditions we live by are the DNA this confused organism is currently operating with and our inevitable goal is to become more like a properly cohesive organism. Nationalists make up the core of the Social Organism I am referring to because they do not change, they do not adapt. They preserve these traditions over time and protect them by being loyal to them and proud of them.

Because of varying ideals and states of being which don't necessarily conflict but that doesn't infer that individuals are all working toward the same goal. Again, I ask you to show these "laws and traditions" in American history. Continually asking you to show this is starting to get annoying.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Every human being is raised by a collection of beliefs and traditions given to them by parents, teachers and anyone they listen to. Obviously the person does not agree with every single idea they're given as so many conflict, but the person consciously weighs them all in order to form homogeneous response. Do you think you're a single identity locked within your body? Your a collection of conditioning, about 50% from your genes and 50% from your environment. Societies at large are essentially the same thing. Communities, Cities, States and Nations are all just the macroversion of the same evolutionary mechanism.

What are these "traditions? You keep referring to them but never say what they are, do you fault me for thinking they don't actually exist when you continue such an act? Do I think I am a single identity that is locked into my body? Yes I do. No other individual has the same exact experience as me, makes the same exact decisions for the same exact reasons, how the same exact goals and the same exact means of achieving those goals, has the same exact eudiamonia as myself. You start from the top and say "well everyone is kinda looking for the same thing" but that is the improper place to start. You are putting the cart before the horse. The proper place to start is with the individual, that is what makes up "society," it is the basic unit of measurement and if you started with an individual then built up for there you would be forced to see that we are so divergent that there really isn't a hegemonic force like you think there is in the world of culture. Individuals really are "unique little snowflakes."