Thread: What do you think about abortion?

Originally Posted by Carrot

I shall assume that a fetus does not have the ability to think, even if it has, the thoughts will probably be forgotten the moment it interacts with the world and grows up.

The problem with this argument is that most of us don't remember our thoughts from the first few years of our lives, in addition to our time as a foetus. So where do you draw the line, where is an organism conscious enough for it to count as murder?

Personally I think the mother should have the ultimate choice. It's silly saying that the foetus is an independent life, because its existence relies on the mother. So she should be able to have a free choice about whether she wants to continue its (potential) life or not. However, I also think in cases where the mother will be incapable of giving the child a good life (poor income/intelligence/family structure) the the government should be able to intervene and force abortion (or at least force the child to be given to a better equipped family).

And the Catholic argument that any potential life is sacred is just silly. In my opinion, a couple deciding whether or not to have sex is exactly the same amount of 'potential life' as a fertilised egg is. Any catholic who believes in no contraception due to the 'every sperm is sacred' doctrine; well then logically you should be spending every waking moment trying to conceive, if 'potential life' is that important to you, right?

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

The problem with this argument is that most of us don't remember our thoughts from the first few years of our lives, in addition to our time as a foetus. So where do you draw the line, where is an organism conscious enough for it to count as murder?

I'm having the assumption if you dabble with your subconscious, you'll be able to remember what happened when you're young. They're not gone, just buried. But I don't believe you'll be able to find thoughts you had as a fetus in your subconscious. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ultimately the baby's fate lies in both parents' hands. Unless the father decides to abandon s/he.

Originally Posted by Carrot

I'm having the assumption if you dabble with your subconscious, you'll be able to remember what happened when you're young. They're not gone, just buried. But I don't believe you'll be able to find thoughts you had as a fetus in your subconscious. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally I don't know, but it sounds like a reasonable point of view. The problem is, even when neuroscience has reached its peak and we know everything about the brain, it is fairly likely that the question 'when is a foetus conscious' will still only have an ambiguous answer.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Personally I think the mother should have the ultimate choice. It's silly saying that the foetus is an independent life, because its existence relies on the mother. So she should be able to have a free choice about whether she wants to continue its (potential) life or not. However, I also think in cases where the mother will be incapable of giving the child a good life (poor income/intelligence/family structure) the the government should be able to intervene and force abortion (or at least force the child to be given to a better equipped family).

Forced abortions WILL NOT SOLVE A THING, and this is not an opinion. Have you heard of the Chinese One Child Policy? :/

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

And the Catholic argument that any potential life is sacred is just silly. In my opinion, a couple deciding whether or not to have sex is exactly the same amount of 'potential life' as a fertilised egg is. Any catholic who believes in no contraception due to the 'every sperm is sacred' doctrine; well then logically you should be spending every waking moment trying to conceive, if 'potential life' is that important to you, right?

I'm Catholic, so I'll add my two cents. The no contraception thing is just the Vatican being the Vatican, we'll get past that and in practice I think we already have.
If it's not done then it's not, if it's done then the sacred human life is there. It's really not that complicated I think.


Greenhavoc: Thanks, I honestly think we needed to see that to continue the discussion better.