These are not mine, and full credit goes to the folks over at PF. I thought it might be useful for our more argumentative ones to keep in mind. |
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These are not mine, and full credit goes to the folks over at PF. I thought it might be useful for our more argumentative ones to keep in mind. |
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I agree largely... my main disagreement is with number 1. Some people are capable of consciously suspending their reason and then stifling their memory of doing so; of repeating without modification a fallacious argument which has been previously countered; of ignoring arguments and dealing with the cognitive dissonance by telling oneself that it was done for some reason other than having no answer (to reply would be below them, for instance); of temporarily losing the power to understand simple analogies; and a host of other behaviours that go by the general name of 'doublethink'. |
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Last edited by Xei; 06-26-2012 at 01:45 AM.
Unless you're big fan of George Orwell, which wouldn't be surprising, the word you might actually be searching for is doublespeak, but their meanings are basically identical. Avoidance is of the utmost use in any argument, for instance, to circumvent an opponents point only to address said point at another intersection of reason, aligning an opponents weakness with your own strong suit, for example. These 'intersections' can be confusing, I agree, and lead to many possibilities for one to falter in an effort for argumentation, but is nonetheless a method of reason whether you find it digestible or not. Politicians are masters of manipulation, and whatever argumentative skill set they utilize is designed to convince, persuade, enrapture and overwhelm; without which they wouldn't be politicians, but they are also notorious for lying and deception. The question is, can you overlook a lie or deception for the "greater good"? |
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+1 for irony, xei |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Feel free to substantiate that by providing one example of a post where I was engaged in doublethink. |
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WTF!? Re-ignore me this instant! |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Okay. |
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I didn't say anything about delaying a response for rhetorical reasons, I was talking about flat out ignoring a fatal argument; this is not a 'method of reason', it's a method of irrationality and denial. And I wasn't talking about doublespeak; doublespeak is a disingenuous means of speaking to influence or pacify others. Doublethink is much worse; it is a disingenuous means of thinking, to influence yourself. As Orwell describes it, |
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I thought #1 meant that everyone should use reason. Or it could mean that everyone uses reason to some extent, but not with everything. That would make it true. |
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I think the idea is that many people only believe they're using reason, but number 1 is not allowing you to possess reason in itself as a means of attacking someone arguments. Even if their reasoning is fallacious, based upon emotional or biased conditions, or circular and under-examined, these must be reasonably addressed. You can't win an argument by virtue of controlling reason itself and defining reason by what you believe and defining illogical concepts by what you don't believe. |
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Everything works out in the end, sometimes even badly.
Maybe. Most of the rest of it though is about being mindful of how others form their views. |
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