Thread: When will humanity expand into space?

Originally Posted by sloth

The government really shouldn't be anywhere in the picture, as long as space travel is privatized. What we will have to worry about is corporations claiming planets.

A corporation can't claim a planet any more than a state can. The people ON the planet will naturally form their own scheme of homesteading and property allocation, and no one on Earth will be able to do a damn thing about it.

Originally Posted by cmind

A corporation can't claim a planet any more than a state can. The people ON the planet will naturally form their own scheme of homesteading and property allocation, and no one on Earth will be able to do a damn thing about it.

So, if Taco Bell sent a taco space ship to the Mars, and created a colony of Taco Bell workers, and they told them to create little taco houses and setup land allocation, and those Taco Bell workers complied, and spread throughout Mars, claiming it all in the name of Taco Bell, that would essentially defy the laws of physics, then?

The truth of the matter is that "claiming" something is a bullshit made up human term that can never be fully defined, and we're just too proud to admit that. Anyone can "claim" anything, as long as nobody objects to it.

Originally Posted by sloth

So, if Taco Bell sent a taco space ship to the Mars, and created a colony of Taco Bell workers, and they told them to create little taco houses and setup land allocation, and those Taco Bell workers complied, and spread throughout Mars, claiming it all in the name of Taco Bell, that would essentially defy the laws of physics, then?

Why would they do that? More likely the former employees of taco bell would realize that they have more in common with each other (eg. settling a new world) than they do with the company that hired them.

Originally Posted by sloth

The truth of the matter is that "claiming" something is a bullshit made up human term that can never be fully defined, and we're just too proud to admit that. Anyone can "claim" anything, as long as nobody objects to it.

Ok? I think you're agreeing with me.

Originally Posted by cmind

Why would they do that? More likely the former employees of taco bell would realize that they have more in common with each other (eg. settling a new world) than they do with the company that hired them.

.. Until that company threatens to stop sending the supply ship they utterly depend on for survival. Or are we talking about fully terraformed planets?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

.. Until that company threatens to stop sending the supply ship they utterly depend on for survival. Or are we talking about fully terraformed planets?

I don't see how that could happen in the real world. I understand how it could happen in your imaginary world, but the real world isn't like that. Corporations have shareholders, and shareholders don't like that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by sloth

Irrelevant. The challenge was that a corporation is unable to claim a planet.

A corporation is unable to claim a planet. It's just not possible. I'm afraid I don't understand your point still.

Originally Posted by sloth

The government really shouldn't be anywhere in the picture, as long as space travel is privatized. What we will have to worry about is corporations claiming planets.

Here, you say that you are worried that a corporation would claim a planet. Now you say it's impossible. You're flip-flopping.

The most practical reason to go into space is in order to mine resources. I'm the kind of guy that prefers economically motivated industry (as opposed to societally motivated infrastructure) be handled privately (though I believe the employees should own the company on a democratic level). While colonization is an important first step, the first to stake new territory are those dreaming of opportunity.

Unfortunately this won't be very pretty. Cmind is trying to romanticize share-holders to an unfair degree. If oil companies here are pushing fracking even though it's proven to cause earthquakes, if it's been proven Monsanto is killing the bees (which would kill us, too) and they're suppressing the studies rather than changing or being dismantled, you can fully expect some awful atrocities to accompany space exploration, as well.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Unfortunately this won't be very pretty. Cmind is trying to romanticize share-holders to an unfair degree. If oil companies here are pushing fracking even though it's proven to cause earthquakes, if it's been proven Monsanto is killing the bees (which would kill us, too) and they're suppressing the studies rather than changing or being dismantled, you can fully expect some awful atrocities to accompany space exploration, as well.

You're seriously going to compare killing a few bees to marooning the first generation of space colonists? Like those are even remotely similar?

Originally Posted by cmind

A corporation is unable to claim a planet. It's just not possible. I'm afraid I don't understand your point still.

Do you agree with the idea of claiming land at all?

Originally Posted by sloth

Do you agree with the idea of claiming land at all?

I believe in homesteading as an effective means of parceling out previously unowned land. Does that answer your question?

Originally Posted by cmind

Why would they do that? More likely the former employees of taco bell would realize that they have more in common with each other (eg. settling a new world) than they do with the company that hired them.

Irrelevant. The challenge was that a corporation is unable to claim a planet.

Originally Posted by cmind

Ok? I think you're agreeing with me.

I am agreeing that it's probably not going to happen, but I disagree about a statement that such an event is impossible. I also think that such a claim would be absurd, but not any more absurd than any other land claim. Humans like to make shit up, and as long as we all stroke one another on the idea, we can continue to believe it, as a whole, which makes it true to us. If you were to ask an alien race that has no concept of "ownership", however, they would just be confused.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I claimed the entire universe beyond Earth when I was in college. It's mine. I know the U.N. says nobody can do that, but who the fuck do they think they are?

Originally Posted by sloth

Anyone can "claim" anything, as long as nobody objects to it.

Since "claiming" things is a man-made concept, it is only valid as long as man, in general, allows it.
If you claimed the universe, and everyone agreed to your claim, then it is as valid as any other claim, though I think the entire concept is absurd.

Originally Posted by sloth

Since "claiming" things is a man-made concept, it is only valid as long as man, in general, allows it.
If you claimed the universe, and everyone agreed to your claim, then it is as valid as any other claim, though I think the entire concept is absurd.

That's your rule, not mine. I go by my rules.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That's your rule, not mine. I go by my rules.

...What?
I didn't say anything about rules. What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by sloth

So, if Taco Bell sent a taco space ship to the Mars, and created a colony of Taco Bell workers, and they told them to create little taco houses and setup land allocation, and those Taco Bell workers complied, and spread throughout Mars, claiming it all in the name of Taco Bell, that would essentially defy the laws of physics, then?

The truth of the matter is that "claiming" something is a bullshit made up human term that can never be fully defined, and we're just too proud to admit that. Anyone can "claim" anything, as long as nobody objects to it.

I claimed the entire universe beyond Earth when I was in college. It's mine. I know the U.N. says nobody can do that, but who the fuck do they think they are?

Originally Posted by sloth

Your points, in this paragraph, are that the project is "utterly useless", "embarrassing", and "the most proposterous thing", and that another mission is "equally pointless."

I'm sorry to call you out, but I'm forced to call this paragraph "equally pointless", as it holds no actual points at all. It's really just a lot of name calling, is it not?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

.. Until that company threatens to stop sending the supply ship they utterly depend on for survival. Or are we talking about fully terraformed planets?

This is what I meant in my earlier paragraph. I foresee a reality TV mission to lose funding quickly as the public loses interest and/or gets bored of watching people sit around and basically do nothing all day inside a white capsule on mars. There will probably be a huge initial income for a project like this because everyone wants to see it happen, but as reality sets in it probably wont make for a very popular show. And the consequences of that could really mean that the "astronauts" who go to Mars under such a program would die. The public would stop watching the show, the organization would lose its funds, and they would be unable to afford to send anymore supplies or a return spacecraft to the astronauts on Mars, and they would probably starve to death.

Originally Posted by sloth

The government really shouldn't be anywhere in the picture, as long as space travel is privatized. What we will have to worry about is corporations claiming planets.

I fully agree. I hope that private individuals and corporations are capable of exploiting space resources without government intervention. We have had government intervention throughout the history of humanity and it has caused nothing but death and destruction in the worst cases. Perhaps in the final frontier we can finally give anarcho-capitalism a chance? [/dreaming]

Originally Posted by sloth

Since "claiming" things is a man-made concept, it is only valid as long as man, in general, allows it.
If you claimed the universe, and everyone agreed to your claim, then it is as valid as any other claim, though I think the entire concept is absurd.

It's exactly how the Western US was settled.