Thread: Nazis, Islamic Terrorists - which is worse?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Shamanite, your answer to my concentration camp question seems to be that Jewish communities declared war on Germany. Wouldn't that mean certain Jewish individuals did that, if it happened? Does it make sense to imprison an entire culture over some people in it talking crazy stuff? What you posted is far from what my sources have told me my whole life, and I have come across zillions of them. What are your top sources?

A common tactic in denying things that are true is to keep asking for sources, and then when they provide them say it isn't good enough and ask for more. I have provided plenty of sources in this thread so far. I suggest you take a look at them before blindly asking me for more. I believe those sources should explain all the questions you gave me.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I'm interested. What are the right wing aspects of Communism?

I am referring to the actual practice of communism, not the mere theory. In practice, communism comes with extreme government control of the population because that is the only way it could ever possibly exist. Privacy is not respected, and uncalled for searches are rampant. Free speech does not exist, and neither does free association. Militarization and police presence are extreme. All of those in the extreme were considered right wing for a long time. For the most part, they still are. However, the right/left distinction gets mixed up, muddled, and switched a lot.

In the 80's, people were making a big issue of disregard for the First and Fourth Amendments. It was "conservative" Republicans (considered right wing) who were arguing for more censorship of music and expression (flag burning amendment proposal, hysteria over rap and heavy metal lyrics, etc.), though a few Democrats like Al Gore go into the scene to look more conservative. "Liberal" Democrats (considered left wing) were driving around with "Fight censorship!" bumper stickers in large numbers and screaming against the flag burning amendment proposal. Also, the Fourth Amendment was brought into major question because "conservative" Republicans supported the major search frenzy that was/is driven by the war on drugs, and "liberal" Democrats were gung ho about very strict adherence to the standards of the Fourth Amendment. "If you aren't doing anything worng, you have nothing to worry about," was a "conservative" battle cry. Now it's "liberal" Democrats who are preaching it the most. I was semi-aware in the 80's and a child in the 70's, but my understanding of the few decades prior to then is that they were pretty much the same way. In the 90's, "liberal" Democrats got on the "too much violence in T.V. and movies" bandwagon and started sounding like Republicans did in the 80's.

All of this stuff has been put through the blender since then. Today, neither side is making big issues of the indefinite detention provision of the NDAA, the Patriot Act, or the NSA PRISM program. The only masses that seem to really care about those issues are libertarians. Also, as we have discussed before, what the Hell happened to the anti-war movement? How many "left wingers" live in the United States now? What does the term even mean any more?

Originally Posted by Shamanite

A common tactic in denying things that are true is to keep asking for sources, and then when they provide them say it isn't good enough and ask for more. I have provided plenty of sources in this thread so far. I suggest you take a look at them before blindly asking me for more. I believe those sources should explain all the questions you gave me.

I didn't deny what you said. I asked what better sources you have because all you have provided are facts that don't prove your claims and incredibly biased, low level sites that I am not even close to blindly trusting. YouTube videos are worth a lot when they show actual footage that proves things, but just a few freaks claiming stuff with nothing credible backing it are worthless. Wikipedia is often a good source, but convincing me that the Madagascar Plan existed isn't going to convince me that Hitler was not a mass kindapper, hostile take over obsessed psychopath, and ruthless dictator. I'm sure he did want to get the Jews all in one place... out of Europe. That would make them much easier to wipe out.

I have been pretty civil and open-minded about this. At least a hundred high level sources with a lot to lose for straight up lying say that Hitler was the scum bag I described. I asked you to prove otherwise. You haven't done that. I can find some piss ant websites that will say Hitler was an alien or that he worked for the Illuminati. Can you be more convincing than that? I am fascinated by the topic, but not convinced of what you are claiming.

Oh ok, I see where you're coming from. So when you say Communism has right-wing aspects, you're no longer talking about the spectrum that has anarchy on the right and all the fascist/totalitarian regimes on the left (like the graphic I posted). You're using conservatives/Republicans as an example of right wing. But today's conservatives and Republicans wouldn't be anywhere near the right side of the government-power spectrum, they're firmly ensconced under corporatism, just like today's so-called Liberals/Democrats. On the extreme right end of that spectrum (the real political spectrum) is anarchy, followed by libertarianism (today's equivalent for classical Liberalism), then democracy, then corporatism, and then total government power, which includes socialism, communism, fascism, and monarchy (all on the extreme left). Remember the left is collectivism in all its forms - aka Statism. The right is less government, the left is more. So when people say Communism has right-wing elements to it, they're using a fictional version of what left and right wing actually mean, one that was apparently made up by leftists at some point in an effort to paint the right as being just as power-hungry as them. And of course, if you're talking about the Republican party, then that's true. But the actual Right wing would be Libertarianism and Anarchy. Here, I'll post it again, it moved back to the last page now:



And yeah, I completely understand that communism is never a utopia as it's presented to the gullible. That's just the advertising gimmick - the campaign promise to make them all think it's going to be wonderful, and then when it actually comes to pass you find jack-booted thugs knocking down doors and dragging people off in the middle of the night who will never be seen again. And the government tells everybody where they'll live and work, who they'll marry, etc - there's no choice left. Apparently whenever the democratic party gets enough power they'll always establish socialism, and socialism will always turn into communism. In the West they go through the phase of democratic socialism or social democracy first, because they know they can't just jump straight into soviet bloc or Asian style full socialism or communism here. But apparently these are just stages along the road to a more fascistic state. Once you give the state enough power it will start taking more until it has full control.

I think we're on the same page but slipping around a little bit with semantics. The image you posted does have merit and a long history of being a representation of what the labels mean. I am just saying that the common usages of the terms no longer go along with it so much. We just have two major parties that are agreeing with each other in really scary ways in terms of actions while dramatically pretending to disagree on words while pushing the United States in the direction of totalitarianism. I think the biggest problem that led to it is unconditional allegiance to political parties. That has given politicians way too much power. If the masses would start putting principles before parties, politicians would be answering to us on much greater levels and the Constitution would be a whole lot safer.

Agreed. Super scary video:



And incidentally, I've now learned Columbia University is the nexus of Communism and Socialism that's getting into government now. It's where Obama studied, as well as where Saul Alinsky taught his Rules for Radicals (under the guise of Community Organizing, a pseudonym for left-wing agitation - note Obama called himself a Community Organizer in Chicago) and where at least one of the founders of the Frankfurt School taught when they had to flee from the Nazi party. That's some serious pedigree!

Freaky stuff. That movement is very real. The collapse of the Soviet Union should have driven the point in enough for the masses, but it didn't.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I didn't deny what you said. I asked what better sources you have because all you have provided are facts that don't prove your claims and incredibly biased, low level sites that I am not even close to blindly trusting. YouTube videos are worth a lot when they show actual footage that proves things, but just a few freaks claiming stuff with nothing credible backing it are worthless. Wikipedia is often a good source, but convincing me that the Madagascar Plan existed isn't going to convince me that Hitler was not a mass kindapper, hostile take over obsessed psychopath, and ruthless dictator. I'm sure he did want to get the Jews all in one place... out of Europe. That would make them much easier to wipe out.

I have been pretty civil and open-minded about this. At least a hundred high level sources with a lot to lose for straight up lying say that Hitler was the scum bag I described. I asked you to prove otherwise. You haven't done that. I can find some piss ant websites that will say Hitler was an alien or that he worked for the Illuminati. Can you be more convincing than that? I am fascinated by the topic, but not convinced of what you are claiming.

I have shown real newspaper articles, agreements between Zionists and Hitler to move Jews to Palestine in the 1930's, plenty of info. I don't know what kind of info you want but I have given you plenty to look over. You say you aren't convinced by any websites or videos so I honestly don't know what I can show you lol. You seem to be just a troll.

I didn't dispute that Hitler wanted to create a place to ship off the Jews to before he made so much happen in the concentration camps. I was clear about the fact that I didn't. Yes, there was the Madagascar Plan. Beyond that, you used piss ant websites and YouTube videos that prove nothing but what some people babbled. That doesn't cut it. It doesn't compare to thousands and thousands of books, including textbooks used at all levels, as well as thousands of interviews of people who survived the Holocaust. Documents from the governments of many countries indicate that the Holocaust happened. You are arguing with a universe of credible information, including video footage of people starving to death in the concentration camps. What are you using to argue against the wealth of information? A few biased, underground websites that merely make claims and do not offer solid evidence. I haven't said there is no way I could possibly believe you. I said that your sources are not convincing. Good luck finding somebody else who is willing to have a civil disagreement with you on this issue.

What was the "final solution" concept?

alright then, on your interviews of people that "survived" the holocaust, I have already posted this source in this thread before but it answers your question so I'll link it again just for you.



These are actual "holocaust survivors" who completely contradict the narrative.

look through sections 2 through 5 of this pastebin, it provides PLENTY of info for you about holocaust exaggeration, extortion, frauds, lies, etc.

The Jews------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Pastebin.com

This pastebin will show you how much revisionism there is, how many coverups and lies there are surrounding the holocaust. Yet these books by Elie Wiesel "Night" where he lies about having a holocaust tattoo but there is no tattoo on his arm, or Anne Franks diary almost everyone has to read in school about how horrible the holocaust was, regardless of the authenticity of the diary. Its indoctrination, instilling guilt in the population to give jews power, and if you give any criticism to any sort of jews someone can just shout antisemetic nazi and thats somehow supposed to be the end of the debate lol. I know you have not done this I am saying thats how it goes with the majority of the population. Just like how slavery is for blacks, its all about being a professional victim. If anyone disagrees with you then they are a racist evil antisemetic nazi and they should not be allowed to speak. I'm thankful I haven't been banned yet, on a lot of other sites posting this info would probably get me banned.

If the holocaust did actually happen, then its horrible. I have looked at holocaust museums, I have read Anne Franks diary, I have tried to find conclusive evidence of jews being killed just for being jewish, and not dying due to typhus or starvation from allied bombing raids. I just can't find it. If you can show me some that would be great, although be prepared for me to give it a thorough examination.

The thing is,most media, movies, some textbook writers, and television producers are jewish. Once it is factually known that one holocaust "survivor" was lying, he continued to say it was real in his mind, thats how deadset they are on believing their lies. Also that "video footage" was after the allies came through bombing their food supply lines. They were well fed beforehand, thats why there are some early pictures of concentration camp jews at a healthy weight and then later into the war they are starving. There was also a huge typhus epidemic, in which many of them died. So they put up delousing chambers to try to remove the Typhus in the concentration camps, and whats hilarious is that these delousing chambers have been used time and time again to say the jews were being gassed lol. Theres also the story about how they got electrocuted with a giant electric chair, but that never caught on as well as the ovens or the gas chambers.

Do you believe a giant electric chair was used? Do you believe gas chambers or ovens were used just because those seem like more reasonable answers?

Attachment 7645

Also let me ask you something else. What would be the point of keeping a jew alive for 7 years if you just wanted to kill them? Wouldn't it be more efficient either to make them starve within 1 month like the allies did to Nazi soldiers or to just shoot them all? The gas chambers were apparently powered by Diesel engines, but Hitlers Luftwaffe barely had enough fuel to fly missions, let alone gas 6 million jews. Doesn't seem to add up.

You found a few people who say the mountains of information from zillions of major sources are false. That is not Earth shattering. Check out this video.



Pastebin looks like a cheap blog page from 1998. Why am I supposed to believe a word on it?

My understanding from zillions of competitive sources with a lot to lose for lying, only some of which are Jewish, is that most the the Holocaust victims were either gassed or shot. A lot of them were kept alive for a long time because they were forced to work for the Nazis. Some of that work was building weapons.

What did Hitler mean by "final solution?" I think that is my third or fourth time to ask you that.

I know how manipulative media can be. I am just trying to understand your perspective. Pastebin, isolated assertions from no telling who, and not answering questions will not convince me. For all I know, World War II was staged by the Rothschilds and the moon landing never happened, but I am just not convinced of any of it. The Laurel Canyon conspiracy involves some of the strangest facts I have ever heard in my life, the most extreme of which is that the admiral who led the U.S. in the conflict that sparked the Vietnam War happened to be Jim Morrison's father but it was never publicized although Jim was one of the biggest rock stars in the world during the Vietnam War. That is Twilight Zone stuff, but I am still not convinced of a conspiracy. However, I do believe that Sandy Hook was a hoax. That is apparent enough to be determined. If you have good information, my eyes and ears are open to it. I love stuff like this. I am just not convinced at this point.