Thread: But It Defies The Laws Of Physics!

You are asking Korittke, right?

I don't think time travel is Impossible, hense the quotation marks, so I just wanna make sure you're addressing him and not me.

[Edit:] And since we're on the subject:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/time/resources.html

Well I'm just making sure everyone knows that it's not 'paranormal' either. It's fully in line with the laws of physics.

umm that's an inspiring post you made there...but it's so verbose and exaggerated that I didn't waste my time reading it. Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? Your posts go on and on with repetitive quotes. The only people who can read them are the lack-a-lifes who sit down for hours reading your monologues. I think you should have a better grasp on something before bashing it and taking other's time.

Here's a quote for you:

Avoid senseless banter and excessive posting.
Please refrain from senseless or meaningless posts. These include posts like 'Yeah...me too,' or 'That's strange,' or 'Cool.' Try to make your posts actually contribute to the thread so that others will enjoy reading them.

LOL, WHO IS THIS GUY!

Ok, I couldn't bear to read all the nonsensical ~ SHIT ~ tha you have posted time and time again. All you do is google stuff about paranormal pratter and post URLs and quote shit. And what made me laugh the most is the fact that you think you can grasp quantum entanglement just by reading a few websites. <<< LOL!!!!

You have no grasp on just the basis of QM, HELL! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS!

And, the scientific method has been used since Aristotle 'er Plato (I forgot who), it has been used over and over again. Extremely effective, 99.999% success rate when trying to decide whether a hypothesis is valid or not. When you can't test psi balls and stupid crap like that, it comes under serious threat already.

Oh wait, you'll probably google "define:quantum mechanics" and then post it in a second. Oh wait, but since I just said that, you'll change it up and use poor grammar to make it sound like you came up with it.

Just because some websites say stuff that come from the CIA and FBI and government and shit like that, doesn't mean it's backing you up in any way. It just strengthens the point of all the other posters that aren't high from sniffing sharpies and air freshener. I mean, I've read your other crap, you just say the same thing over and over.

I don't care if I'm breaking the rules, go ahead and lock this topic. The downfall of mankind is due to psuedo-scientific, religious, political bullshit like this. I won't stand for it, and neither should anyone else. All this passive aggressive bullshit makes me sick as hell.

Before you continue posting, acquire a better grasp on the topic at hand before looking like a total dumbass, and then trying to RUB YOUR FRIVOLOUS SHIT in other people's faces to boost your already massive ego.

My work is done.

umm that&#39;s an inspiring post you made there...but it&#39;s so verbose and exaggerated that I didn&#39;t waste my time reading it. Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? Your posts go on and on with repetitive quotes. The only people who can read them are the lack-a-lifes who sit down for hours reading your monologues. I think you should have a better grasp on something before bashing it and taking other&#39;s time.

Here&#39;s a quote for you:

Avoid senseless banter and excessive posting.
Please refrain from senseless or meaningless posts. These include posts like &#39;Yeah...me too,&#39; or &#39;That&#39;s strange,&#39; or &#39;Cool.&#39; Try to make your posts actually contribute to the thread so that others will enjoy reading them. [/b]

LOL, WHO IS THIS GUY&#33;

Ok, I couldn&#39;t bear to read all the nonsensical ~ SHIT ~ tha you have posted time and time again. All you do is google stuff about paranormal pratter and post URLs and quote shit. And what made me laugh the most is the fact that you think you can grasp quantum entanglement just by reading a few websites. <<< LOL&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

You have no grasp on just the basis of QM, HELL&#33; YOU DON&#39;T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS&#33;

And, the scientific method has been used since Aristotle &#39;er Plato (I forgot who), it has been used over and over again. Extremely effective, 99.999% success rate when trying to decide whether a hypothesis is valid or not. When you can&#39;t test psi balls and stupid crap like that, it comes under serious threat already.

Oh wait, you&#39;ll probably google "define:quantum mechanics" and then post it in a second. Oh wait, but since I just said that, you&#39;ll change it up and use poor grammar to make it sound like you came up with it.

Just because some websites say stuff that come from the CIA and FBI and government and shit like that, doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s backing you up in any way. It just strengthens the point of all the other posters that aren&#39;t high from sniffing sharpies and air freshener. I mean, I&#39;ve read your other crap, you just say the same thing over and over.

I don&#39;t care if I&#39;m breaking the rules, go ahead and lock this topic. The downfall of mankind is due to psuedo-scientific, religious, political bullshit like this. I won&#39;t stand for it, and neither should anyone else. All this passive aggressive bullshit makes me sick as hell.

Before you continue posting, acquire a better grasp on the topic at hand before looking like a total dumbass, and then trying to RUB YOUR FRIVOLOUS SHIT in other people&#39;s faces to boost your already massive ego.

My work is done.[/b]

Damn…nothing but personal attacks. Not one of you gave even a Hint that anything posted was false. Not a single one. I mean, shit, one would figure that if you both had so much info on me being Wrong, you’d actually have something to bring the table…but…nope. Nada.
I’m sorry that you boys feel that everybody should be as prone to getting as riled up about something like this as you are. Maybe you should take some tips from ITM and learn to state your opinions about the subject with at least a little maturity and conviction. Damn shame, really. ( <--Uh oh. Bad Grammar. Let’s flame me for that while ducking the point as if everyone reading this thread was ignorant enough not to recognize rhetoric when they see it.)
Hmm, why is it that my ‘few’ posts on this subject have been similar? Probably because whenever I offer evidence to be dispelled, I never hear from the other person, until it’s on another thread. But, seeing as how you’ve “read my other posts,” I’m sure you’ve figured that out on your own.
I love it how you both feel that, just because I’m offering another view point while clearly stating that I’m a skeptic, I’m somehow offending you to the point where you have to try to redeem yourself by attacking my character, oh-so-atrocious grammar and post-structure. Seriously, it’s refreshing.

Hopefully you’ll both re-read your posts and realize: A) You can attack my character all you want. If the evidence I post is invalid, by all means, let me know. And B) The more effort you take to attack me as if you know something more about me than I’m trying to gather evidence to counter people like yourselves, without having a single argument against the evidence I’m providing, you’re doing nothing but helping me out. I&#39;ve no problem with conceding when my points are countered, so whenever you&#39;re both competent enough to do so, this conversation will probably be a lot more interesting.
If I was as touchy as the two of you, passive aggressiveness would “make me sick, too.” Guess there’s nothing worse than trying to get somebody worked up and realizing they aren’t as sensitive as you.

“I can’t counter the claims you’re posting, but they’re not true, and you’re a doo-doo head&#33;”

Stretch it out as long as you want…it still sounds just as pathetic.

Oh...and please give me a link to the "How long a post should be" thread, so I can see other peoples&#39; views on the set limit that I didn&#39;t know we had, because, as of now, the only people bitching about it are two guys who are obviously a little touchy about an opposing perspective. You&#39;d think we&#39;d have Moderators that would come around and let me know if I posted in a way that would disrupt others from having a pleasurable experience here.

Oh wait……we do.

Its important to keep the Laws of Physics around as a kind of Baseline Threshold point, so that we know that anything that exceeds them can then be classified as bonifide Miracles. The Vatican has always kept that criteria in mind, and those in the Far East and South Asia more or less intuit the importance of the Laws of Physics as being the line that must be crossed by those who would be classified as Saints.

But once in awhile the distinction is not discerned. There is a semi-humorous story told in a little known book, "The Healer of Los Olmos and other Mexican Lore". The book is about one of America's greatest Saints, Don Pedro Jaramillo, a healer who worked in South Texas at about the turn of the 20th Century. The book was written by a lady of Scotch extraction who was making a study of the Traditions and Folklore of the Hispanics in South Texas, and she found herself overwhelmed with Don Pedro Stories. In one story, she found that the Miracle was quite wasted upon the recepiants thereof. It seems that for one set of cures, Don Pedro had asked the people of one small town to take their serapies, their cloaks, and to spread them out on the pond and then lay on them life rafts and paddle out to the middle of the pond and take an hours nap and then paddle back, and then they would be cured. The Scottish Lady was amazed at the recitation of this 'miracle' but the mexicans were quite puzzled by her reaction which at first confused her until she realized that these Hispanics did not realize that serapies -- nothing more than a section of wool cloth -- would not float by itself, not to mention being able to act as a raft. So she explained her viewpoint, but the people were incredulous, and so they lead her to the pond whereupon they took their serapies and actually tried to demonstrate how well they could float, and this time they were surprised to see just how ill-suited as rafts these pieces of cloth actually were. A generation had transpired since Don Pedro had worked his 'miracle' before the people realized that it had been a miracle, or at least to what extent it was a miracle, as before they had only been grateful that they had been cured of their colera so easily.

Leo Volent wrote:
Its important to keep the Laws of Physics around as a kind of Baseline Threshold point,[/b]

Whoa...it&#39;s been quite a while since we&#39;ve both agreed on somethin, Leo.

I have the utmost respect for the laws of physics, the work that went into establishing them, and the scientific method (not even sure where Manifold pulled that little tangent from.) But, just as you outlined, (though in your own way) the steadfast belief that they are infallible is just that, a belief, and people that bathe themselves in their own intellectual pride, while mercilessly attacking someone&#39;s intelligence who blasphemes the laws&#39; illusory infallibility, are no better than the people who wage holy war in the name of a God that may or may not exist.

Glad you chimed in with your opinion on the matter.

Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research:

http://www.princeton.edu/%7Epear/index.html

More, for those that will only accept the word of a scientific mind:
(I love the concept behind this site)

http://www.issc-taste.org/index.shtml

wow....my 2 paragraph post helped inspire you to ramble on for another page.

If my posts aren't agreeing with you, why not use your psychic powers to track me down and blast me with a psi ball?

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines
wow....my 2 paragraph post helped inspire you to ramble on for another page.

If my posts aren't agreeing with you, why not use your psychic powers to track me down and blast me with a psi ball?

Because that would expose him to unwanted attention from James Randi. There are places to practice that stuff, you know.
The laws of physics I totally agree w/, but I also agree w/my religion, too.
Oh, and I broke my Card Concentration record...(was 29, now 31 in a row w/o hints!!)

Originally posted by Oneironaut

Leo Volent wrote:
Its important to keep the Laws of Physics around as a kind of Baseline Threshold point,

Whoa...it's been quite a while since we've both agreed on somethin, Leo.

I have the utmost respect for the laws of physics, the work that went into establishing them, and the scientific method (not even sure where Manifold pulled that little tangent from.) But, just as you outlined, (though in your own way) the steadfast belief that they are infallible is just that, a belief, and people that bathe themselves in their own intellectual pride, while mercilessly attacking someone's intelligence who blasphemes the laws' illusory infallibility, are no better than the people who wage holy war in the name of a God that may or may not exist.

Glad you chimed in with your opinion on the matter. [/b]

Hmmmmmm. I just looked at a few of the other postings... my... I had no idea it had been getting so ugly.

Anyway, perhaps we should be more sympathetic to their viewpoint... unless these people show a great deal of enthusiasm in their attacks on Civilization, Religion and Spirituality, then they will not either be inducted into the Free Masons, or promoted if they are already members, and then they would be stuck with having to work all of their lives only to likely get nowhere. But if they show enough emphatic hate for our positive values, then they will rise up to those significant Masonic Degrees and have their careers guaranteed for them. How can we blame them for wanting to succeed in this highly competitive world. And if impressing a Secret Society is the only way they can manage, whom are we to judge? But for the Grace of God, so goes ourselves, no?

Heh! @ Leo.
Well said.

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines
wow....my 2 paragraph post helped inspire you to ramble on for another page.

If my posts aren't agreeing with you, why not use your psychic powers to track me down and blast me with a psi ball?

One day when you're all grown up and you've had countless run-ins with ignorant people, you'll look back and realize how juvenile you seem right now.

Until then, keep it comin, boy. lol. I figured I might make a few enemies on this thread, but what do you say you throw us a curve and impress us by helping discern truth by bringing in some sources and references from your perspective, so we can see where you're comin from and try to actually Contribute something to the thread you're festering upon?

what do you say you throw us a curve and impress us by helping discern truth by bringing in some sources and references from your perspective, so we can see where you're comin from and try to actually Contribute something to the thread you're festering upon? *

[/b]

About time you asked. I had some meaningful info waiting in the wings.

Here's something I bet you didn't know.
I'm sure this will prove my point thoroughly.

http://www.vgg.com/tp/tp_072700_HistoryOfBJ.html

Just another example of misleading sources.

I know, I know. Here comes the barrage of: UR SO CALLOW/CHILDISH THAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW STUPID YOU ARE

.....lol....you Can&#39;t be for real.

You post a piece of sketch comedy and cite it as a "misleading source?"

Lol...THAT was the Grand Point you had "waiting in the wings?&#33;"

Agreed ^

yeah I was hoping you'd find that to be an amusing article. The point it to not believe everything you read on the internet.

Apparently you couldn't identify the sarcasm I expressed when I posted that link.

One day when you're all grown up and you've had countless run-ins with ignorant people, you'll look back and realize how juvenile you seem right now. Wink
[/b]

One day when you actually understand QM, you'll look back on this and realize that these absurd notions of psi balls and psychic powers are not only unjustified, but are proven wrong by the laws of physics. I understand that is the point you are trying to make in this thread, but being insistent about something that cannot be proven means that the whole topic's validitiy relies on your faith in it. Very much like religion perhaps?

OH NO i didn't just say the R word!

Originally posted by Inverting_world_lines
yeah I was hoping you&#39;d find that to be an amusing article. The point it to not believe everything you read on the internet.

Apparently you couldn&#39;t identify the sarcasm I expressed when I posted that link.

One day when you&#39;re all grown up and you&#39;ve had countless run-ins with ignorant people, you&#39;ll look back and realize how juvenile you seem right now. Wink

One day when you actually understand QM, you&#39;ll look back on this and realize that these absurd notions of psi balls and psychic powers are not only unjustified, but are proven wrong by the laws of physics. I understand that is the point you are trying to make in this thread, but being insistent about something that cannot be proven means that the whole topic&#39;s validitiy relies on your faith in it. Very much like religion perhaps?

OH NO i didn&#39;t just say the R word&#33; [/b]

...What does religion have to do with anything this thread is about?

[Edit: But since you did bring it up, the point of this thread is that people get bashed by "skeptics" for Exactly what you&#39;ve just outlined. Many skeptics try to shred people&#39;s dignity because they think Nothing paranormal exists, and the laws of physics are infallible.
If You knew anything about quantum physics, even enough to begin to tell me what I do and don&#39;t know, you&#39;d know that the laws of physics are being questioned by most every scientific circle that is studying the subject. Again, if you have evidence that that isn&#39;t true, post it. I&#39;d love to see it.]

The only way to ever understand something is to read about it, whether you go to school for it or not. To think that you cannot get a basic, fundamental knowledge of practically Anything by finding literature on it, is to show the world how ignorant you really are. I don&#39;t mean that as an insult, that&#39;s simply an observation.
I suppose you problem lies somewhere in the ability (or lack thereof) to be able to make conscious decisions about where to get your information. I&#39;m making it a point to get information from sources that are as reliable as possible, while maintaining that if anyone has a problem with the sources Anyone is posting, to offer a little reason into why.
So far, I&#39;ve been posting things from universities, research centers that are fully traceable for validity, and the most prestigious establishments I&#39;ve used my judgements to feel comfortable with.....you posted a skit from..what...a comedy group? who&#39;s site has "Sketch Comedy" paraphernalia all over it.

Either learn to convict to your opinions like an adult, or just Grow Up.

sigh ... you've missed the point entirely and strayed away from the subject.

I think I'll go make a thread about how the sky is blue because of paranormality.

Questioning someone who has his mind already made up is futile,
people will always believe what they want to believe.

Uhm...actually I think I&#39;ve covered all your bases, and you&#39;re bordering on delusional.

But of course, as always..if anyone reading this sees something that I&#39;ve overlooked, let me know so I can get this trainwrecking attempt at mature conversation back on track.

LOL, WHO IS THIS GUY!

Ok, I couldn't bear to read all the nonsensical ~ SHIT ~ tha you have posted time and time again. All you do is google stuff about paranormal pratter and post URLs and quote shit. And what made me laugh the most is the fact that you think you can grasp quantum entanglement just by reading a few websites. <<< LOL!!!!

You have no grasp on just the basis of QM, HELL! YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS!

And, the scientific method has been used since Aristotle 'er Plato (I forgot who), it has been used over and over again. Extremely effective, 99.999% success rate when trying to decide whether a hypothesis is valid or not. When you can't test psi balls and stupid crap like that, it comes under serious threat already.

Oh wait, you'll probably google "define:quantum mechanics" and then post it in a second. Oh wait, but since I just said that, you'll change it up and use poor grammar to make it sound like you came up with it.

Just because some websites say stuff that come from the CIA and FBI and government and shit like that, doesn't mean it's backing you up in any way. It just strengthens the point of all the other posters that aren't high from sniffing sharpies and air freshener. I mean, I've read your other crap, you just say the same thing over and over.

I don't care if I'm breaking the rules, go ahead and lock this topic. The downfall of mankind is due to psuedo-scientific, religious, political bullshit like this. I won't stand for it, and neither should anyone else. All this passive aggressive bullshit makes me sick as hell.

Before you continue posting, acquire a better grasp on the topic at hand before looking like a total dumbass, and then trying to RUB YOUR FRIVOLOUS SHIT in other people's faces to boost your already massive ego.

My work is done. [/b]

Excuse me. Butting in here. I'm skeptic. Most definitely skeptic. I spend at least a few hours a day studying science in some form, often upwards of four hours. I'm quite proud of being a skeptic as a result: I don't just take things for granted, even out of my science textbooks. I've done my own experiments in my room just to be sure it's all right. Admittedly, I have limits. I can't test string theory in my room. I can't test special relativity in my room. There's a LOT I can't test in my own room. But at least I try what I can to be sure I'm not misplacing trust. So, it's quite understandable that when I hear an outrageous claim, I want to know about their sources, their methods, and their statistics. Usually, I come to the conclusion that the paranormal is simply bogus. Not because of bias, but because of logic. You must realize that, while you CAN be right, you likely won't be right MOST of the time, at least unless you severely limit the amount of claims you make, or at least the content of those claims. Science moves forward slowly, but it does move. Most paranormal proponents seem to be unsatisfied with the speed of such movement, but the misinterpret it: It isn't just because scientists don't like change, it's because they don't want to accept something as true without being absolutely sure. Some scientists may dislike change, but their dislike isn't validated by the core values of science. However, like I said, it DOES move.
Therefore, posts like the one above are the greatest embarassment a scientist can ever see. Especially when the rhetoric contained within such a post is flawed.

And, the scientific method has been used since Aristotle 'er Plato (I forgot who), it has been used over and over again. Extremely effective, 99.999% success rate [/b]

Not necessarily. Remember when I said that I look at the statistics of a claim first? The reason is to find any fallacies or misinterpretations of data. Misinterpretations or fallacies remarkeably like the one you just made. Hypothesis testing, the core of statistics, isn't 99.999% accurate all the time. It's all based on an α level. α=.05 means you will only accept the results to be significant if the observed statistics would only coincide with the null hypothesis less than 5% of the time. In short, you're 95% sure that the alternative hypothesis is correct. So you're only right 95% of the time. But if α=.001, you can be 99.9% sure. Now, in medical studies, α might be set to .00001, so you'd be 99.999% sure, but most studies are happy enough with an alpha level of .001 or so. And it varies with every experiment, so you can't make a generalization such as scientific method being right 99.999% of the time.
Further, in ancient Greece there was some form of a method to ensure accuracy, a sort of primitive scientific method, but the modernly used form of the scientific method was invented by Francis Bacon, LONG after ancient Greece. Get your facts right.
And criticizing O for researching QM? That's horrible! He's willing to go and look up some information, willing to learn about what says that he might be wrong, and willing to devote the time to find out why he might be right. Every time I read O's posts, it makes me a bit happier. It's nice to know that while MOST people just propagate their opinion, and buy into something with no validation, that there's still people left who actually think. Oneironaut has definitely won my respect. He should have yours, if you truly do claim to be interested in science.

Well, sorry for rambling.

Thanks, man. Very much appreciated.

This thread is extemely painful.

The more I read, the more I fear for the safety of our world with idiots running around like this.

And yet you Keep reading.

The more you post, the more we realize how hard it is for you to back your own Beliefs.

Originally posted by Oneironaut
And yet you Keep reading.

The more you post, the more we realize how hard it is for you to back your own Beliefs.

LOL

Big O definitely gets my respect...specially after staying on point in the face of flame baiting. Kudos!