Thread: Thawing of the World's Permafrost

Originally posted by Oneironaut
Thawing Permafrost Could Unleash Tons of Carbon

I read up on Global Warming. You know, a good many experts suppose that the oceans can well absorb any excess carbon gases. but, yes, carbon gases are indeed increasing. But ordinarily, all other things remaining equal, the increase in temperature would have caused a greater cloud cover which would have reflected off any additional heat.

What may be the REAL problem, contributing most to a incrementally warming atmosphere is the increased desertification of the World. The expanding deserts in both Africa and China. The warming up of the American South East as Urbanification creates a broad expance of effective desert. The shrinking of the South America Rain Forests. Desert in Australia is expanding.

All of this desertification is leading to a decrease in Reflective Cloud Cover, and THAT, more than any added concentration of Carbon Gases is the REAL Dyanmic which is raising the mean atmospheric temperatures.

O,
Have you seen An Inconvenient Truth yet?

Word. @ Leo

Nope, not yet. @ Peregrinus
I'll have to check it out, soon.

Originally posted by Leo Volont
I read up on Global Warming. *You know, a good many experts suppose that the oceans can well absorb any excess carbon gases. *but, yes, carbon gases are indeed increasing. But ordinarily, all other things remaining equal, the increase in temperature would have caused a greater cloud cover which would have reflected off any additional heat.

What may be the REAL problem, contributing most to a incrementally warming atmosphere is the increased desertification of the World. *The expanding deserts in both Africa and China. *The warming up of the American South East as Urbanification creates a broad expance of effective desert. *The shrinking of the South America Rain Forests. *Desert in Australia is expanding. *

All of this desertification is leading to a decrease in Reflective Cloud Cover, and THAT, more than any added concentration of Carbon Gases is the REAL Dyanmic which is raising the mean atmospheric temperatures.

JUST as likely:

The increasing "desertification" of the world is a RESULT of global warming. OR, perhaps BOTH global warming and "desertification" are somehow a result of the increase of carbon dioxide...

It's all just a causal problem. That's the big difficulty with Global Warming. We can prove an increase in greenhouse gasses, and we can prove global warming (and, I suppose, "desertification", though, I'm not well read on that), but, the problem is in establishing a causal nexus. We can't prove what caused what.

There could EASILY be another cause, much more subtle and hard to detect, that is causing ALL THREE. CO2, warming, and desertification... perhaps thats taking things too far, but, the point is that it's pretty much damn near impossible to identify the REAL cause, and what's just an effect.

That said, I blame America.

Originally posted by The Blue Meanie
There could EASILY be another cause, much more subtle and hard to detect, that is causing ALL THREE. *CO2, warming, and desertification... perhaps thats taking things too far, but, the point is that it's pretty much damn near impossible to identify the REAL cause, and what's just an effect.

No, it's really not hard to identify the cause. The global climate is a chaotic, nonlinear system which is highly sensitive to initial conditions and small variations in variables, but the fact is that an increase in carbon dioxide causes the average global temperature to increase in a non-uniform manner which interrupts what have for many tens of thousands of years been stable climatic patterns, thus altering both the planetary landscape and the distribution of climate zones. Here's why:
1. Carbon dioxide gas is transparent to UV radiation.
2. Carbon dioxide gas is not transparent to IR radiation.

The relevance of those two facts of elementary physics is this: Much of the sun's emitted radiation is in the UV portion of the spectrum, and since CO2 is transparent to radiation of that wavelength, it is allowed to pass relatively unimpeded through the earth's atmosphere where most (~70%) of it is absorbed by the surface of the earth. The earth is a blackbody radiator, and so after absorbing the sun's UV rays, it re-emits that radiation primarily in the IR portion of the EM spectrum. However, unlike the incident UV radiation from the sun, the IR radiation cannot pass unimpeded through the atmosphere, because the CO2 gas is fairly opaque to that wavelength of radiation. The IR radiation is therefore absorbed by the atmosphere, warming it throughout its layers by convection, and warming the surface of the earth through conduction. If you want to know what a runaway greenhouse effect can do, take a look at the planet Venus.

The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is greater now than it has ever been in the 650,000 years that climate scientists have been able to study using ice core sampling. Using this sampling technique, scientists can determine both the temperature and the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere for a given year. The data are undeniable: When the CO2 concentration is up, the temperature is also up. Plot of CO2 and Temperature Records from Antarctic ice core sampling going back over 650,000 years

The mechanism for how this occurs is well-understood, and no research scientists publishing legitimate research in peer-reviewed publications are denying the causal relationship. The "controversy" over anthropogenic climate change is a manufactured diversionary tactic created by both government and corporate interests, because too much of the global economy is currently dependent upon the public believing that they can keep on burning those fossil fuels to their little hearts' content and that there will be no consequences.

But don't take my word for it. Read the research yourself. Go to the scientific journals themselves if you have access. If not, here's some background information to get your started: The Greenhouse Effect , Global Warming

Originally posted by The Blue Meanie

JUST as likely:

The increasing "desertification" of the world is a RESULT of global warming. OR, perhaps BOTH global warming and "desertification" are somehow a result of the increase of carbon dioxide...

.

No. Desertification is specific and intended. In the Amazon Rain Forests it is caused by the burning off of Jungle by primitive farmers who are clearing land for planting. In the more Advanced Regions it is caused by bull dozers. Desertification is Urban spraw.

I really did not think that requried any explanation.

But apparently the World's Population can creep up to about 20 Billion and people will still need to be walked through an explanation of the consequences, that a great many trees would have to be cut down to make room for the necessary homes, factories and parking lots.

But maybe it is just easier to always blame global warming. That way America can take the blame for everything, is that it?