Thread: Is Hunting Right?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Have you ever had a dog? If so, how long have you and that dog had a relationship? Any amount of years spent with a dog (or cat) and you will begin to understand that there is more to animals, consciously, than a lot of humans give them credit for - especially when it comes to their perception of "relationship."
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Animals are supposedly much better at picking up emotions in humans than humans can pick up in each other. Like, my dog will generally be in a more playful moon when I'm in a good or cheerful mood, and just sit beside me if I'm sad or ill.

And when one of our two cats got sick, the healthy one would follow the sick one around, groom it, lay next to it, and eat less so the sick one had more, etc. So that would be a "human" trait, caring for others.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I know what you mean, but I more or less disagree with this.

Have you ever had a dog? If so, how long have you and that dog had a relationship? Any amount of years spent with a dog (or cat) and you will begin to understand that there is more to animals, consciously, than a lot of humans give them credit for - especially when it comes to their perception of "relationship."

Did you know that it's very common for dogs, or a dog and a cat, respectively, to go into depression after the death of their companion? Many of them will do Very human things like refuse to eat or shun the attention of others, socially, because they become all consumed with the loss of a loved one dying?

That's a very "human" trait for something that has no conception of "life and death."
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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Animals are supposedly much better at picking up emotions in humans than humans can pick up in each other. Like, my dog will generally be in a more playful moon when I'm in a good or cheerful mood, and just sit beside me if I'm sad or ill.

And when one of our two cats got sick, the healthy one would follow the sick one around, groom it, lay next to it, and eat less so the sick one had more, etc. So that would be a "human" trait, caring for others.
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I can see what you mean, but you both use cats and dogs as examples. As I see it these are among the most clever animals on the planet. They have emotions and have a lot more understanding of issues like life and death.

The animals that I shoot (crows, magpies, rabbits, rats, squirells etc) are all much less capable of understanding of life and death and seem to be far less capable of feeling much emotion. As I see it, these animals lives seem to matter far less than the lives of a cat or dog or a human (seems insensitive, I know, but I can't think of a better way to word it).

I can agree on that. If your hunting you probably should eat it. Anyone who shoots an animal and just leaves the body to decay in the woods is a jerk. I am going to say in most cases thats not what happens though.

Originally Posted by Rav1

Hunting for pleasue is unquestionably wrong and only testifies of shallowness, cruelty and intelectual underdevelopement of hunters.
For this kind of passion take example of some anglers who catch a fish, measure its size and weight, take a picture and then throw it back into the water safe and sound. That's it. No harm done.
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The naive love to be naive about the world I have fished seance I been a kid and love eating fish You want to know the true about catch and release. It is just BS for people like you to think the fish is ok. I hate must catch and release tournaments except for a couple that our televised ( If it is on TV they sometimes treat the fish better.) Must of them fish die in must tournaments or on must fishing tv shows. I would rather see them cook all them that come from them tournaments and give it alway for free to feed the poor then just throw the fish back in the water to die and go to waste.

Originally Posted by Rav1

humans have been hunting since the dawn of man out of necessity. when humans were first around there were obviously no food stores for them to go out and buy some food. they had to hunt for it, and despite what you may think, they used the entire animal. everything, so nothing went to waste.

depending on which animals your hunting, some do have a chance. on the other hand, when your hunting deer, and your just sitting there with "bait" with a scoped gun aiming at their head, they don't really have a chance. you could say: "oh! they always could run away or not be so dumb." thats like blaming a fish being caught on its stupidity to bite a hook. bait is camolauged to looked like the real deal and the animal's instincts tell them it alright. so its not really fair.

true the conditions of most of meat processing plants for animals are cruel. horribly cruel, but at least the animals are being used for food and, hopefully, are going to waste. i don't know if you hunt for food or just for the sake of killing animals, but i think the later one is wrong. pointless killing for your own amusement.

also, just because you've been doing something your entire life doesn't make it right or justified. just because people have been doing something for years, again, doesn't make it right or justified.
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Fist of all you are picking the minority out of the group must real hunters don't bait. Must hunters make fun of them people when there standing in the hunting shops Of course it does not stop the owner selling them the must expensive piece of garbage in the shop "Shop owner: Yes this $500 thing really works trust me " Also most hunters do use most of the deer. Hunting will always be around. Markets been around for 1000s of years but personal hunting has always been there. Deep down we just like to kill and grow what we eat. It just feels good to provide for ones self Not have someone else to do it for you. So to me there is nothing wrong with that. Also I think must of you just don't get why people hunt. People also hunt to get closer to nature ( and away from the wife ). People hear want to look down on people that hunt using deer stands. Them people our nature nuts. Here is what they do first they go out and survey the land. Look for tracks , beds , waste and other things. With that info they try and find the routes the deer travels. Then they build a deer stand. Some use temporally ones and some build permanent ones. Then they wake up around 5:00am and go to the deer stand set up camp and stay there untill around 10:00am I have heard some stay longer. They just don't shot just any old deer they wait for the perfect one and they don't leave that stand for nothing. Trust me you have to love nature to stand in a tree for over 5 hours and pee in a bottle A lot of times they will come back with no deer. If you ask them how was it they will tell you it was great if they get a deer it would of just been a good bonus.

Originally Posted by Rav1

There is something I don't understand. Maybe there is a good answer, but I don't know what it is. How can somebody kill a deer and not feel the least bit bad about it while caring greatly about humans? I understand killing roaches and mosquitoes because those animals have such simple minds that their losses don't really matter. But deer have complex minds and complex emotions. They enjoy their lives, and they love their young. So it seems that if a person has enough of a conscience to feel overwhelming remorse over killing a person, he would have at least some remorse over killing a deer. I don't get it.
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There is a thing a lot of hunters have and that is respect for nature. To say a hunter does not care about nature is just not true. I have seen a hunter give a baby deer month to month and care for it until it is better. Most deer hunters respect deers to a point because with out them they can not hunt Plus some hunters start to love a animal more after hunting it

Originally Posted by badassbob

I honestly don't know. I understand why some people would feel guilty, but I just don't. To me it's just an animal. It doesn't seem to matter wether it becomes road kill, gets eaten by a fox, shot by me, or dies of old age. In the end it's going to die eventually, and it's not as though they can appreciate life in the same way humans do - it's just animal instincts. Eat, sleep, drink, look after their young, go find food, then sleep again.

It's not like there aren't people who don't feel guilty about killing humans either is it? I know plenty of people in the army who if anything are proud of their "kill count" in Iraq. And as I'll be joining the Royal Engineers as a combat engineer in a few months time, I may end up being one of them - although I doubt I would ever be proud of killing someone, but I can't see myself upset about killing someone who I don't know who was just about to kill me.
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That makes sense. I guess there is some kind of threshold involved. It is only at a certain level of perception of mind complexity of the animal that remorse can kick in. I have ZERO guilt over killing roaches, mosquitoes, and flies, although they have more mental experience than zero experience. Come to think of it, I don't really feel bad about killing mice.

There are some humans I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about killing. Lack of someone else's innocence is something that can make my conscience completely disappear in regard to that person. I would kill Bin Laden and actually enjoy it. If I went to war in Iraq, I wouldn't feel at all bad about killing insurgent terrorists. It would make me happy. I guess certain factors really go a long way.

I value different animals differantly. I would categorize them somewhat like this:
Superior animals
Cat and dog animals - wolfs, tigers, pumas, etc.
Average-worth animals
Bears, deer and moose for instance.
Inferior animals
Birds, small animals such as wild rabbits and fish (if fsh even count as animals).

The superior animals I would not want to die whether it is to eat them or for the sport. The middle class should only be killed for the meat. The inferior has little worth, and hunting/killing them for the fun of it is perfectly acceptalbe in my opinion.

Here's a short story of bird hunting:

Me and my cousin locked approximately 8 birds into a stable two years ago, to hunt them down with sticks and beat them to death. One of the birds was flying for quite a time, until it became completely exhausted. It was unable to move, even though we stood right infront of it, poking it lightly. Since we could no longer have fun with it, we executed it.
Needless to say, we let none of the birds out alive. Unfortunately, I think he won with 1-2 more frags than me.

Originally Posted by King

I value different animals differantly. I would categorize them somewhat like this:
Superior animals
Cat and dog animals - wolfs, tigers, pumas, etc.
Average-worth animals
Bears, deer and moose for instance.
Inferior animals
Birds, small animals such as wild rabbits and fish (if fsh even count as animals).

The superior animals I would not want to die whether it is to eat them or for the sport. The middle class should only be killed for the meat. The inferior has little worth, and hunting/killing them for the fun of it is perfectly acceptalbe in my opinion.

Here's a short story of bird hunting:

Me and my cousin locked approximately 8 birds into a stable two years ago, to hunt them down with sticks and beat them to death. One of the birds was flying for quite a time, until it became completely exhausted. It was unable to move, even though we stood right infront of it, poking it lightly. Since we could no longer have fun with it, we executed it.
Needless to say, we let none of the birds out alive. Unfortunately, I think he won with 1-2 more frags than me.
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I think your brain needs some tweaking.

Nah. I like it the way it is.

Originally Posted by King

Nah. I like it the way it is.
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Originally Posted by King

Me and my cousin locked approximately 8 birds into a stable two years ago, to hunt them down with sticks and beat them to death. One of the birds was flying for quite a time, until it became completely exhausted. It was unable to move, even though we stood right infront of it, poking it lightly. Since we could no longer have fun with it, we executed it.
Needless to say, we let none of the birds out alive. Unfortunately, I think he won with 1-2 more frags than me.[/b]

ugh that's sick K&G

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One time while camping with my family, me and my cousins were playing with a slingshot - one of those bigger ones that attaches to your arm. The first time I used it, I picked up a rock, aimed it at a bushy snowy pine tree. I stretched back the elastic, and let it go. The rock hit something with a thud, and a bird fell out of the tree, dead as a doornail.

Originally Posted by King

Here's a short story of bird hunting:

Me and my cousin locked approximately 8 birds into a stable two years ago, to hunt them down with sticks and beat them to death. One of the birds was flying for quite a time, until it became completely exhausted. It was unable to move, even though we stood right infront of it, poking it lightly. Since we could no longer have fun with it, we executed it.
Needless to say, we let none of the birds out alive. Unfortunately, I think he won with 1-2 more frags than me.[/b]

I got attacked by a bird one time. It challenged me to a fight to the death, and I won. I am totally serious.

I was with some of my relatives at a family reunion at a cabin in the Smoky Mountains in North Carolina. We were sitting on the porch, surrounded by wilderness. Everybody started going to bed, little by little. At about 2 a.m., after getting fried out of our minds with some of the relatives, the last two people up were my brother and I. We were a good bit stoned and paranoid. We had a conversation about the possibilities of being attacked by mountain animals. Then I brought up the idea of being attacked by mountain people. We were both spooked out by the conversation. Just after having that, we heard something big stepping on sticks and breaking them in the woods near the cabin. Then we heard the same thing on the other side of the cabin. My brother got wigged out and went to bed. So I was sitting on the porch by myself, really paranoid but enjoying it too much to go inside. During this, a bat started swooping in and out of the porch area. This went on for a few minutes. Then, a mocking bird flew into the porch area and landed on the window screen right by my head. This was the first moment that there was no bat or relatives around me, and I think the bird had been eying us for no telling how long, probably thinking we were a threat to its nest. Any way, the bird was right near my head and would not go away. I am so used to walking toward birds and watching them fly away every time, and I tried it with this one. It went nowhere. It just acted really eratic, moving its head around and chomping its beak a lot. I picked up a big stick and swung it near the bird, assuming it would fly away, which it didn't. It instead flew at me and then went up to the ceiling and back to the window screen, continuing its eratic behavior. So I swung at it again, and it did the same thing. This process happened almost three full times. The third time the process started, the bird came really close to my face, and I swung at it with the intent of killing it. It was going all over the place, trying to get me, and I finally got in a good hit and knocked it on the floor. Then I smushed it with the stick.

The next morning, I was telling the relatives about it at breakfast. Some of them knew I had been stoned, while others didn't. I got a lot of comments about how I must have been on drugs to think something like that happened. I then showed everybody the bird, and they believed me.

I didn't have any remorse over killing the son of a bitch. I would do it again and again. It invaded my space and threatened me, and then it tried to hurt me, so screw the bird. Lack of innocence changes everything. People have told me that it was probably defending its nest and that the baby birds died without anything to take care of them. I say good. That bird's genes don't need to be passed on any more than they already were.

I liked that story. Birds are the craziest thing EVER.

Is Hunting Right?[/b]

k Dick Cheney hunts...how could it possibly be right?

Originally Posted by ;324784

I liked that story. Birds are the craziest thing EVER.
k Dick Cheney hunts...how could it possibly be right?
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DICK CHENEY DOES NOT HUNT !!! That is as much hunting as like shooting fish in a barrel and calling it fishing. He does out and buys the birds that been raised in captivity. They knock them out and hide them in the bushes. Some times they have to kick the bush to get them to fly. If he wanted to he could stay in the car and shot them. What is he afraid of hunting wild birds

It is called Canned hunting he is a link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canned_hunt

Haha, amazing story, Universal!

I agree with what has been said multiple times here. I really see no problem in hunting animals for food, especially when it's necessary, but doing it just for the fun of it is wrong, in my opinion, but that does depend on the animal in question. Definitely not hunting an endangered species...the people who kill animals to use their body parts for products disgust me, like hunting elephants just so you can get some ivory...it's just plain wrong.

Originally Posted by Cyrus

I agree with what has been said multiple times here. I really see no problem in hunting animals for food, especially when it's necessary, but doing it just for the fun of it is wrong, in my opinion, but that does depend on the animal in question. Definitely not hunting an endangered species...the people who kill animals to use their body parts for products disgust me, like hunting elephants just so you can get some ivory...it's just plain wrong.
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Unlike most other animals, elephants grieve over the deaths of other elephants. They should never be hunted. Hunting elephants is very evil.

Originally Posted by Universal

Unlike most other animals, elephants grieve over the deaths of other elephants. They should never be hunted. Hunting elephants is very evil.
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I also heard that they remember stuff from their parents memories?

But hunting for trophies is wrong, at this zoo there near me are these monkey hands with gold stuff at the base, as well as monkey heads.