Thread: What Do You Suggest We Do?

Originally Posted by Borshkevski

I doubt you have more than a vague knowledge of the culture and people of the United States, let alone knowledge of American politics.[/b]

I have been arguing with Neruo about the United States for a few months now. It has become very clear to me that he has very little understanding of what the U.S. is really like. I think he watched a few movies and leaped to some conclusions. He thinks we are all fundamentalist Christians who despise all Arabs and live under what amounts to a dictatorship. I don't know if he even realizes that we elect our public officials. I want to see those movies.

Originally Posted by Borshkevski

Well w/e your point is debatable but I won't delve further into hypothetical situations...
In what ways is America less democratic than it was 100 or 200 years ago? Do you even know what you are talking about? I doubt you have more than a vague knowledge of the culture and people of the United States, let alone knowledge of American politics.[/b]

Are you joking? Your commandments are being ignored by your presidents, scandals every day, and your president keeps fighting a war the majority does not want. What is more undemocratic then a leader doing something the majority of the population doesn't want?

Also, Christianity has make your government Biased, America was funded as a secular state, yet with freedoms for all religions.

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Besides that, kind of a weak argument 'oh please stop, you don't know anything'. I know enough to see that America is not the most democratic country in the world as however they think. It isn't the smartest country, it isn't the most free. America is in a constant state of delusion. Delusion leads to bad things, such as a war that in a few years killed more innocents then terrorists could hope for in decades.


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Originally Posted by Borshkevski

I don't know if he even realizes that we elect our public officials.[/b]

Just LOL. lol@ the always extremely polar 'elections' of smut and money in America. It isn't about whether you are a good politician, it is about looking good and telling your opponent smokes crack with prostitutes.

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My point really is, that -like with religion that I dislike-, the main problem isn't that bad things happen in/thanks to America (besides the good things), but a total blindness and denial to those bad things. America is going downhill. How long IS it going to take for you to realize your school system sucks. How long before you DO see that a government like the current one should never be allowed to take power again.

Most of what you do is say: "Well? Yeah, but The Netherlands SUCK!". Okay. The Netherlands have quite some down sides. I would like to see those problems get restored, hence my political interest. I think it is increadably stupid to start blabbering about how great your country is, it really takes away any motivation to better it. I rather be in a smart country then in a country that Claims to be the best in the world. Even IF the Netherlands would be worse off. What really, they are not ^__^

Originally Posted by Neruo

Are you joking? Your commandments are being
Just LOL. lol@ the always extremely polar 'elections' of smut and money in America. It isn't about whether you are a good politician, it is about looking good and telling your opponent smokes crack with prostitutes.

My point really is, that -like with religion that I dislike-, the main problem isn't that bad things happen in/thanks to America (besides the good things), but a total blindness and denial to those bad things. America is going downhill. How long IS it going to take for you to realize your school system sucks. How long before you DO see that a government like the current one should never be allowed to take power again.

Most of what you do is say: "Well? Yeah, but The Netherlands SUCK!". Okay. The Netherlands have quite some down sides. I would like to see those problems get restored, hence my political interest. I think it is increadably stupid to start blabbering about how great your country is, it really takes away any motivation to better it. I rather be in a smart country then in a country that Claims to be the best in the world. Even IF the Netherlands would be worse off. What really, they are not ^__^[/b]

I highlight the good of my country when talking to America bashers. Our public educations system is pathetic, and I have explained why a bunch of times in this forum. Fortunately, we have excellent private schools in every town. If you want to see me say some negative things about my government, start a thread about the war on drugs. Start a thread on Democrats in Congress. Start a thread on gay marriage. Talk about the 50% tax on the rich. I have a lot of disagreements with my government. But those are not the things I am going to talk about when foreigners whose asses we have saved in the past have an endless flow of horrible things to say about us. Also, I never said the Netherlands suck. I am planning a trip to Amsterdam this summer. I just said the Dutch don't need to talk about how we suck because we kick their asses in too many areas.

You do admit that we could take you over in a matter of days, right?

Originally Posted by Universal

You do admit that we could take you over in a matter of days, right? [/b]

Oh yes certainly.

Do explain how that matters in any way. Please do. Seriously. Explain me what is so good, virtuous and special about having a big army? I rather see countries that don't Have / don't Need an army.

Is that your only argument why I shouldn't bash America? Because my country doesn't want/need/has a big military? I care... perhaps not about such things?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Are you joking? Your commandments are being ignored by your presidents, scandals every day, and your president keeps fighting a war the majority does not want. What is more undemocratic then a leader doing something the majority of the population doesn't want?

Also, Christianity has make your government Biased, America was funded as a secular state, yet with freedoms for all religions.

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Besides that, kind of a weak argument 'oh please stop, you don't know anything'. I know enough to see that America is not the most democratic country in the world as however they think. It isn't the smartest country, it isn't the most free. America is in a constant state of delusion. Delusion leads to bad things, such as a war that in a few years killed more innocents then terrorists could hope for in decades.
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Just LOL. lol@ the always extremely polar 'elections' of smut and money in America. It isn't about whether you are a good politician, it is about looking good and telling your opponent smokes crack with prostitutes.

-

My point really is, that -like with religion that I dislike-, the main problem isn't that bad things happen in/thanks to America (besides the good things), but a total blindness and denial to those bad things. America is going downhill. How long IS it going to take for you to realize your school system sucks. How long before you DO see that a government like the current one should never be allowed to take power again.

Most of what you do is say: "Well? Yeah, but The Netherlands SUCK!". Okay. The Netherlands have quite some down sides. I would like to see those problems get restored, hence my political interest. I think it is increadably stupid to start blabbering about how great your country is, it really takes away any motivation to better it. I rather be in a smart country then in a country that Claims to be the best in the world. Even IF the Netherlands would be worse off. What really, they are not ^__^[/b]

haa hah ha, too much stuff to reply to. well first off what are commandments? Are you referring to the constitution?
I was not telling you to stop arguing because "you don't no anything" I trying to suggest that maybe you inform yourself before trying to seriously debate. I agree with Universal, we do have mediocre public schools but our private education is top notch. Our college system (public and private) is one of the best in the world. To say that Americans as a people are unintelligent because you watch too much MTV is ignorant.

Second point: Our current government did not take power. It was ELECTED. In another year a new one will be ELECTED. If the majority of people in the United States really had a problem with the current government it would be IMPEACHED. You may not know this, but several years ago the Governer of California, Gray Davis, was recalled by the PEOPLE and replaced because he was doing a terrible job. Is that not DEMOCRATIC?

I never said the Netherlands sucked. I like the Netherlands, I have been there several times. I have enjoyed my time in almost every European country that I have been to.

Once again, America is not a "stupid" country as you seem to believe. We have developed some of the world's most advanced technology and are still major players in that field. I do not know if you have ever read any American literature but SURPRISE SURPRISE it does exist. This country has made major contributuions to science, the arts, and the world.

And for my last point, I am not blinded to the bad things that come out of America. I know very well that this country is not perfect. That is why Americans are continually working to better this nation. No nation is perfect and I doubt there will ever be one. But out of all the countries in the world America is the most just and is the most free. All of the problems with America that you have mentioned are problems that we have fixed or are working on fixing. I will give you two examples:

Religion - true, we began as a Christian state but now there is NO religious discrimination by the government and the vast majority of the public. One can find almost every world religion represented in any major American city.

Racism- The problem has not yet been completely sovled but we have come a long way from the days of slavery. We have nearly wiped out racism and although that is something that is difficult to destroy, it is becoming less and less rather than increasing.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do explain how that matters in any way. Please do. Seriously. Explain me what is so good, virtuous and special about having a big army? I rather see countries that don't Have / don't Need an army.[/b]

As Reagan put it: "Peace through Strength"

Originally Posted by Neruo

Oh yes certainly.

Do explain how that matters in any way. Please do. Seriously. Explain me what is so good, virtuous and special about having a big army? I rather see countries that don't Have / don't Need an army.

Is that your only argument why I shouldn't bash America? Because my country doesn't want/need/has a big military? I care... perhaps not about such things?[/b]

Mainly, I think it's hilarious to watch you act like that because I know your knowledge of our power is what has you so obsessively insulting us. Plus, you are free to act like a nutty hate monger on the internet because our power keeps others from taking you over. You're lucky Iran, for example, doesn't have our level of power. Imagine what that would be like. And remember... We could take you over in a matter of days.

In defense of the public school system, I would like to say that there are still very many good public schools and throughout the entire public school system, hard working intelligent people are still produced. There is room for improvement but remember our public schools are better than they were fifty years ago and it didn't screw their generation up. Well.... at least not completely

Originally Posted by Neruo

Are you joking? Your commandments are being ignored by your presidents, scandals every day, and your president keeps fighting a war the majority does not want. What is more undemocratic then a leader doing something the majority of the population doesn't want? [/b]

Please state where you received such information.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Oh yes certainly.

Do explain how that matters in any way. Please do. Seriously. Explain me what is so good, virtuous and special about having a big army? I rather see countries that don't Have / don't Need an army.[/b]

Earth is not lala-land where everyone is happy dancing in a circle holding flowers, so it is obviously necessary for the West to have armies to protect themselves against the Russians, Moslems and maybe even the Chinese.

Originally Posted by King

Earth is not lala-land where everyone is happy dancing in a circle holding flowers, so it is obviously necessary for the West to have armies to protect themselves against the Russians, Moslems and maybe even the Chinese.[/b]

It's not lala-land because the people in power dont care whether it is or not. When these people stop being greedy and inhuman, 'lala-land' is do-able

Originally Posted by Wolffe

It's not lala-land because the people in power dont care whether it is or not. When these people stop being greedy and inhuman, 'lala-land' is do-able[/b]

But as long as people will have power, people will be greedy and inhuman. That's how we roll on this Earth, baby!

Originally Posted by Wolffe

It's not lala-land because the people in power dont care whether it is or not. When these people stop being greedy and inhuman, 'lala-land' is do-able[/b]

But do you think it is do-able to prevent everyone from being "greedy and inhuman"? It is possible, of course, but not likely to happen anytime soon.

Originally Posted by TweaK

But as long as people will have power, people will be greedy and inhuman. That's how we roll on this Earth, baby![/b]

Yes, but if people keep saying 'thats what humans do!' and just accept that as a reason why we should never try to be equal, etc. etc., it won't happen. It obviously can happen, since most men resist the primal urge to copulate with every woman they see, then and there; or fight/run to the bitter end when faced with danger.

Originally Posted by CymekSniper

Hopefully the foreigner doesn't defend those words. Hopefully he doesn't believe he knows more about this country than its offspring.[/b]

That's a crap ad hominem argument. It's like saying, "I was born in a motorcycle garage, therefore I know more about motorcycles than you."

Originally Posted by King

Earth is not lala-land where everyone is happy dancing in a circle holding flowers, so it is obviously necessary for the West to have armies to protect themselves against the Russians, Moslems and maybe even the Chinese.[/b]

Chin HU Wa Takataka wishino kudu.

Translation: Earth is not a lala-land, it is necessary for China to have armies to protect themselves against the Muslims, Americans and maybe even the European.

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Are you suck in the cold war? You don't honestly think the west is the only force in a world full of horrible, evil countries, like 'China' and 'russia'. Yes, every single Chinese person wants to drink our blood. The west is as war-mongering as any country that has power. Hell, probably the west is even MORE war-mongering then China and Russia combined, and on average probably more then the average Muslim.

Earth isn't a lala-land because A) people in power that will always be assholes B) people like you to be happy to believe that your country is the only one with virtues, and the others are all evil and you should defend yourself from then.

China and Russia and Arabic countries have lots of people that think exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Are you suck in the cold war? You don't honestly think the west is the only force in a world full of horrible, evil countries, like 'China' and 'russia'. Yes, every single Chinese person wants to drink our blood. The west is as war-mongering as any country that has power. Hell, probably the west is even MORE war-mongering then China and Russia combined, and on average probably more then the average Muslim.

Earth isn't a lala-land because A) people in power that will always be assholes B) people like you to be happy to believe that your country is the only one with virtues, and the others are all evil and you should defend yourself from then.

China and Russia and Arabic countries have lots of people that think exactly the same.[/b]

The West is the side that would benefit myself the most at this point, so I want the West to have the advantage and keep the other of Earth's powers at bay. I don't care what side that is the most war-mongering, and I think wars are good anyway (as long as I'm not affected negatively by it of course).

Originally Posted by King

The West is the side that would benefit myself the most at this point, so I want the West to have the advantage and keep the other of Earth's powers at bay. I don't care what side that is the most war-mongering, and I think wars are good anyway (as long as I'm not affected negatively by it of course).[/b]

You have a very egocentric way of thinking. I don't mean that insulting. I understand where you are coming from. I used to think 'what is wrong with war, along as it doesn't effect me?' as well. However, if everyone thought like that, the world would be horrible. Be being kind to others, you are in a way helping yourself. The more people there are that are kind to others, the bigger chance is that you one day will be needing of help, and will recieve it.

If everyone thought as you, you wouldn't even be saved if you were drowning, no one would help you if your house burned down, everyone would be corrupt.

That's correct.

forcing democratic government on foreign people will not work. the people have to fight for their freedom themselves, thats how democracy was born son. the people here in the US don't think for themselves or question the government nearly enough. the majority of the things screwed up in america, and that's a lot of things, are unconstitutional, media/corporate controlled, or people just have no idea about.

Free Tibet, not Iraq.

Originally Posted by ;

so why don't we just kill/overthrow all the people in power? whats stopping us? seriously?[/b]

That is a new idea. Oh wait, no it isn't It has happened many times thought history, and in most cases, after a while, the new leaders would become corrupt in a certain way. French revolution and such.

sure they control the economy, society, politics, armies, police etc etc. but I'm pretty sure if people Wanted to...they would win. It might take a long time, but i think gaining la-la land for humanity is all or nothing.
...thats enough fucking nonsense sure it could happen but its never ever gonna happen, ever. : ( In reality I think a lot of people, probably more than would admit it, think just like King and God does (or at least pretends to on here, idont realy know him)for example the majority of americans think like King and God, they didn't care that Iraqi people were killed, as long as it was to keep america, and themselves safe.[/b]

Yes, however, most people in other countries think the exact same thing (about 'I don't give a shit about them&#39. Also, the (partially) corrupted assholes in power are also... people. Unless we drastically change our ways of thinking, people in power will aways corrupt, or at least some will, and those will kick the uncorrupted out to an extend.

Originally Posted by Neruo

That is a new idea. Oh wait, no it isn't It has happened many times thought history, and in most cases, after a while, the new leaders would become corrupt in a certain way. French revolution and such.
Yes, however, most people in other countries think the exact same thing (about 'I don't give a shit about them&#39. Also, the (partially) corrupted assholes in power are also... people. Unless we drastically change our ways of thinking, people in power will aways corrupt, or at least some will, and those will kick the uncorrupted out to an extend.[/b]

yah I know, thats why I said it wouldn't work.

and why an anarchist will tell you that we can either have Corruption or Anarchy. neruo what if we changed our way of thinking so that everyone agreed not to let anyone be in power?




anyways here's what america should Really do:

God is a very dangerous thing. Remember the genocide he commited with his Flood? Remember what happened to Egypt with his chemical warfare of plagues and systematic murder of first borns? Omnipotence and God is the ultimate WMD. Saddam pales in comparison to the tryannt that is the christian god. Yet american's seem to support this God? God even has one of his cronies (born again christian GWB) controlling america.

I propose a pre-emptive strike on heaven, and to try God for everything that has ever happened. Of course he'll be guily and then We can hang him.

Originally Posted by ;400597

I propose a pre-emptive strike on heaven, and to try God for everything that has ever happened. Of course he'll be guily and then We can hang him.[/b]

He is infinitely powerful, and he is everywhere. I think you can take him. (But you need to ask the U.N. for permission first.)