Thread: My Formal Apology, And Then I Will Leave

In my time here i have preached constantly against ignorance and misunderstanding. I realized recently that in doing so i break my own guidelines. I perpetuate the problem i am trying to solve.

My direction was never clear. I was only able to adress one certain topic at a time, and it ends up sounding preachy, and it is. This is the best i can explain it, and for gods sake understand it. THIS is my final and most important philosophy, and there will be no reason for me to repeat it.

My goal (which i couldnt identify until recently) was to express my discontent with the direction humanity has taken. Because i was only able to hit one topic at a time, i could never tie all of them together. I feel religion affects politics, politics affects religion, and it all creates a formula to how we treat eachother. I feel small evils in each section contribute to an overall misdirection of humanity, which creates problems between different cultures and opinions. My purpose was to correct those small errors. I feel that present Christianity isnt what Jesus stood for. I feel politics have become a sick game rather than a way to solve problems. I KNOW that these are results of historical events, which still affect us today. But what will whining about it do?

It is not my right to assume that, or blame any individual for how they believe. I am not alone in this, because we are all indirectly guilty. We all feel our opinion is more worthy than the person we are arguing with. To reassure ourselves, we point out the flaws of others, such as identifying someone as a brainwashed American or a religious zealout or whatever. None of that stuff matters, but it finds its way into arguments. In the end, its all about winning the battle.

I have discovered that i cannot judge anyone, because i dont know what their life has been like. We all have a piece of the pie, which should come together rather than argue about which piece of the pie is more worthy.

I have found that i am guilty of the problem that plagues humanity, and what makes us so different (strong, individual opinions). So, can you suck it up and admitt that too?

Originally Posted by Hard

In my time here i have preached constantly against ignorance and misunderstanding. I realized recently that in doing so i break my own guidelines. I perpetuate the problem i am trying to solve.

My direction was never clear. I was only able to adress one certain topic at a time, and it ends up sounding preachy, and it is. This is the best i can explain it, and for gods sake understand it. THIS is my final and most important philosophy, and there will be no reason for me to repeat it.

My goal (which i couldnt identify until recently) was to express my discontent with the direction humanity has taken. Because i was only able to hit one topic at a time, i could never tie all of them together. I feel religion affects politics, politics affects religion, and it all creates a formula to how we treat eachother. I feel small evils in each section contribute to an overall misdirection of humanity, which creates problems between different cultures and opinions. My purpose was to correct those small errors. I feel that present Christianity isnt what Jesus stood for. I feel politics have become a sick game rather than a way to solve problems. I KNOW that these are results of historical events, which still affect us today. But what will whining about it do?

It is not my right to assume that, or blame any individual for how they believe. I am not alone in this, because we are all indirectly guilty. We all feel our opinion is more worthy than the person we are arguing with. To reassure ourselves, we point out the flaws of others, such as identifying someone as a brainwashed American or a religious zealout or whatever. None of that stuff matters, but it finds its way into arguments. In the end, its all about winning the battle.

I have discovered that i cannot judge anyone, because i dont know what their life has been like. We all have a piece of the pie, which should come together rather than argue about which piece of the pie is more worthy.

I have found that i am guilty of the problem that plagues humanity, and what makes us so different (strong, individual opinions). So, can you suck it up and admitt that too?
[/b]

And now you're making accusations too.
No one is guilty of having opinions. Yes, wisdom is in objectivity. Yes, striving towards objectivity is the wisest way to live. However, no one should ever become completely objective. Being such would mean the loss of one's ego entirely. And either way, given the needs and wants of life, let alone the conditioning and mind frames, I doubt anyone actually could become ultimately objective.

So yes, do not judge anyone but forming an opinion isn't judging unless you openly and aggressively force it upon others.

Meh stick around dude.

Who cares what other people think.

There is no point in apoligizing for something that is in everyone's genetics. Yes, your opinions may be outspoken and sound preachy, but that is not your fault. I feel there is no need to apoligize Just because some people may take offense to the was you address things, you shouldn't worry about it. Your responses ar short, simple and to the point and quite frankly I wish more people would respond like you so that posts didn't drag on FOREVER.
I guess what I am trying to convey here is that opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone's got one and they all stink. Everyone has the right to starte their opinion and if others don't like it, though luck.
Stick around...
i don't think anyone should find offense to anyones opinion.
And your right. Everyone thinks that their opinion is better than the other persons. We're only human.

You're not the only preachy person in this forum you know. There are a lot of people guilty of it and none of them are apologizing for it, nor should they. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it may come across to other people as preachy. If people can't deal w/ crizicism, they should just go live under a rock, b/c they are going to be receiving it their entire lives.

Originally Posted by Chaos

You're not the only preachy person in this forum you know. There are a lot of people guilty of it and none of them are apologizing for it, nor should they. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it may come across to other people as preachy. If people can't deal w/ crizicism, they should just go live under a rock, b/c they are going to be receiving it their entire lives.
[/b]

And the people say... AMEN!!! I feel the same way!

Hard as Nails, a lot of times people will see you as an asshole just for being logical. It makes some people piss fire. Don't ever feel guilty about being logical. Wear it like a badge. The intellectually honest welcome it.

*Sigh* Okay, I'm going to try to be as blunt as possible without being offensive.

The problem in this case, Hard as Nails, isn't your opinions. So please, people, don't try to matyrise him on that account. I don't think there's ever been any serious problem with HaN's opinions - I don't agree with most of them, but nevertheless, I don't see it as the issue here. You could be an atheist social liberal pacifist like me, and I'd still have the same opinion. The problem is that you come to DV for the offtopic discussion only, and have never ever posted once in the dreaming forums. Even that alone isn't a problem, if it weren;t for your posting style, which is pretty much to start big arguments and repeat the same discussion over and over again. If Look, I don't mean to attack you, because you actually seem like a half-decent guy and way less offensive on the whole than Hominus Feralis, your "friend" or alter-ego, I'm still not sure which and it doesn't really matter anyhow. It's just, given what you seem to be coming to the forum FOR, I think you'd be better off finding a forum more suited to your interests. A politics or religious discussion forum, maybe.

darn. I didnt think i would have to jump back in so quickly.

I \"apologize\" for all of us, because we ARE all guilty to a degree. Even the kindest people i know have closed minds. Its not because i feel i owe anybody an apology for my opinions. Its mostly about admitting to myself and you all that my old ways of thinking were wrong. In doing so, i hope i can urge you to do the same (if the occasion arrises). If somebody proves you dead wrong in a conversation or on the internet, admitt it. Even if you just admitt it to yourself.

Chaos mentioned something about criticism. I am VERY pro-criticism, because that is the only way we change ourselves for the better. I can handle any kind of criticism, especially from people on the internet. For gods sake, im technically an atheist!!! I catch that bullsh*t from like 99% of the people i know. Dont ever think i am afraid of being informed of my shortcomings, and neither should anybody else. Remember, there is a difference between constructive criticism and blunt criticism.

It is the way we try to correct eachothers shortcomings that causes problems. We (all people) use a little too much of the \"forcing\" way rather than the \"persuasive\" way.

Unfortunately forcing our opinions is an \"evolutionary advantage\", and will probably never dissapear. Social evolution, not physical evolution is how we continue to change. Is that not all we argue about? How to better human relations? Its not about how to survive anymore, its about how to keep making things better. All i can do is add my 2 cents. And 2 cents is worthless by itself....

Btw, The Blue Meanie, that is why i am taking a break from this site. I am still a learner a lucid dreaming, but i am slowly making a method that works better weekly (a hybrid of a bunch of induction methods). I wont create any more topics until then.

btw again blue meanie, your views are the most progressive of anyone i have seen on this site. The only problem is that the average person is incapable of understanding things on the level you do, so your message will never sink deep into them. I try to relate to todays people, because i am one. That is why i cannot be a pacifist or a social liberal. It is not how the average person wants to live, due to our selfishness. Our social relations havent gotten there, but you are trying to fix the problem. You know, you and i are really on the same team. We are both unhappy with the present world. Yet the little dissagreements inbetween COMPLETELY changes how we respond to eachother.

But theres no rush!!!! Perhaps the creators of South Park said it best after the Scientology episode got pulled off the air...

Scientology,
You may have won this battle, but the million year war for Earth has just begun.

Originally Posted by Hard

btw again blue meanie, your views are the most progressive of anyone i have seen on this site. The only problem is that the average person is incapable of understanding things on the level you do, so your message will never sink deep into them. I try to relate to todays people, because i am one. That is why i cannot be a pacifist or a social liberal. It is not how the average person wants to live, due to our selfishness. Our social relations havent gotten there, but you are trying to fix the problem. You know, you and i are really on the same team. We are both unhappy with the present world. Yet the little dissagreements inbetween COMPLETELY changes how we respond to eachother.[/b]

Please don't flatter me. And don't try to pull the issues into this again, the whole "incapable of understanding" thing.

As I said before, your views aren't a problem, at ALL. It seems you've made this thread to apologise for your views or the way people have interpreted them, and in doing so, are trying to... matyrise yourself? I really don't know exactly what you're trying to do in this thread. By 'apologising' for your views or what you've said, you seem to be trying to make this look like the problem with you is about what you've said, and therefore martyrising yourself - which really is totally not the point. Your views aren't a problem, its the style of your forum participation that is.

This thread itself is rather self-obsessed and tiresome, and I'm wondering if I should lock it or move it somewhere.

martyrdom? That would require sacrifice of some sort. I have only gained something.

Dont flatter you? Im sorry, you must come from a place where complements are a threat. What makes you think you are worth sucking up to? I thought for a second there that i had some respect for your individualism.

Once again, even after i have pointed it out twice, you have judged my character before my message. Why does it matter where i say this stuff? You also assume that because i dont post in LD topics i dont read them.

Honestly man, this is the last time i will say it, because i am sick of having to respond to my points being wattered down. THE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS TO POINT OUT THAT ONLY THROUGH DEEP THOUGHT AND OBJECTIVENESS CAN WE UNDERSTAND IF OUR OPINIONS ARE MERITABLE. If they are not, they must be changed. THATS IT!!!! I wanted to just post the first one and leave it alone, but the purpose was distorted as soon as people started responding.

i cant believe you though my purpose was to once again defend my opinions. You drew the subject matter away from the message and back to my character, reaffirming that you cant suck it up and get over how you percieve me.

Its amazing that the problem i was trying to fix arose in the exact same thread. So its my posting style thats the problem? Well, i was trying to leave and come back with more to offer. Until i was once again attacked. No more, for sure. Every time i post it just draws farther and farther away.

Originally Posted by Hard

Honestly man, this is the last time i will say it, because i am sick of having to respond to my points being wattered down. THE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS TO POINT OUT THAT ONLY THROUGH DEEP THOUGHT AND OBJECTIVENESS CAN WE UNDERSTAND IF OUR OPINIONS ARE MERITABLE. If they are not, they must be changed. THATS IT!!!! I wanted to just post the first one and leave it alone, but the purpose was distorted as soon as people started responding.[/b]

I thought the point of this thread was to apologise for whatever you think you need to apologise for, and leave? I mean, hey, maybe it's just me, but that's sort of what the title of the thread indicates. I mean, seriously, does it TAKE pages and pages to say that? This whole thread is really quite waffly and self-obsessed. Which really, given the general pattern of your threads, shouldn't come as much of a suprise.

Aye, I'm curious as to what you're trying to say further.
Why are you pointing out that "ONLY THROUGH DEEP THOUGHT AND OBJECTIVENESS CAN WE UNDERSTAND IF OUR OPINIONS ARE MERITABLE"? Are you assuming that absolutely everyone else is utterly closeminded and doesn't appreciate or understand the importance of objectivity?

I am guilty of nothing. Madness? No. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!

I agree with the Blue Meanie it's a lot of waffling about nothing really. It's like you're blaming everyone else for whatever you've done wrong, and apologising for that. Which is kinda against the point. Not that I read your post or anything.

I agree with Hard as Nails if I understood him correctly, that preaching can worsen the problem it is trying to solve.
My belief is that salvation to humanity will happen when we start to change ourselves, by learning to:
1) Not harming others
2) Mastering our minds: learning to become disciplined
3) Accepting our problems, learning to accept our current situation ( but without giving up trying to improve it )
This will result in wisdom and compassion that will radiate to the people around us, and influence their life to the better.
So, to change the world to the better one must first change him or her self, according to these 3 steps, and because of the wisdom and compassion that must result, the world will be changed to the better.

Hey Hard As Nails, I didn't see this topic. Anyhows: What is the problem? You have the right to criticize. Only try to criticize Ideas and Systems. You can't Really, and thus shouldn't really, blame a child raised by small-minded people from being small-minded. However if no-one criticizes the systems that cause 'bad', nothing would change and there never would be any revolution, any change. There is a side of mankind always corruption, and going down, that is in human nature. However there also is a part of mankind striving for better things. It is a social/cultural/civilizational balance, a circle, a constantly changing pendulum.

I found you to be sometimes quite interesting. So don't go, or Mr T will rape you. Aight?

-

Edit: After reading the topic, I kind of noticed that HAS is like... a bit silly in the sense he seems to have the feeling that he is incapable of something. In someway. Like Christians, lol (incapable of getting anything without Jesus). Anyhows, I think that is a wrong set of mind (if I am correct about HAS). Just try to be yourself, but a bit better every day. Like all Buddhist shit.