Thread: Freedom Of Speech In The Us?

What is the difference from sending away people with 'peace' shirts and sending away every democrat, or every gay person, or every black person for that matter? No shop or mall or anything should be allowed to discriminate, because that what it is, political/ideological discrimination, against anyone.

Originally Posted by Neruo

What is the difference from sending away people with 'peace' shirts and sending away every democrat, or every gay person, or every black person for that matter? No shop or mall or anything should be allowed to discriminate, because that what it is, political/ideological discrimination, against anyone.[/b]

Originally Posted by Neruo

What is the difference from sending away people with 'peace' shirts and sending away every democrat, or every gay person, or every black person for that matter? No shop or mall or anything should be allowed to discriminate, because that what it is, political/ideological discrimination, against anyone.[/b]

If you ever own a mall in the U.S., you will have the right to ban shirts that say, "George W. Bush: Father of the Free Iraq". It would be silly of you to ban it, but it would be your right.

I guess the security guards thought that stuff was banned. If they were wrong, the owner probably fired the security guards and dropped the charges. If not, it was what he wanted.

I was at a bar three years ago that was under a brand new name. The same damn place was called something else a few weeks earlier, and it was a laid back place where I never once saw a bouncer. The new business had a rule that men must wear collared shirts and tuck them in. When I got there with some co-workers, I fortunately happened to be in one of my very rare moments where I was wearing a collared shirt in my free time. I tucked it in and got in line. While I was standing there, a bouncer kicked out a guy who did not have his shirt tucked in. The bouncer was a real ass about it too. I didn't cancel my plans that night, but I never went back to that sorry place again after that night. However, I didn't have the opinion that they didn't have a right to make that rule and kick people out for breaking it. It was somebody's private property. I just thought it was a ridiculous place with stupid rules. They ended up going out of business. There is a certain degree of kharma in capitalism.

Originally Posted by Universal

If you ever own a mall in the U.S., you will have the right to ban shirts that say, "George W. Bush: Father of the Free Iraq". It would be silly of you to ban it, but it would be your right.[/b]

Since when is it more Silly to advocate peace then to advocate war?

I guess the security guards thought that stuff was banned. If they were wrong, the owner probably fired the security guards and dropped the charges. If not, it was what he wanted.[/b]

Yeah, I know this bar that does about the same thing, they let people with certain T-shirts been denied entry. You know what is REALLY PURELY coincidental? That it are Black/Brown people that KEEP wearing T-shirts or Shoes the owner doesn't like. Really silly. It is totally fine however, it is the right of the owner. Not like people should be treated equally. (sarcasm)


Actually, it isn't important weather the guards were acting on their own of on someones else accord. I find it more a big deal they can hide their discrimination behind (their boss's) "Oh, but it is my own property".

I was at a bar three years ago that was under a brand new name. The same damn place was called something else a few weeks earlier, and it was a laid back place where I never once saw a bouncer. The new business had a rule that men must wear collared shirts and tuck them in. When I got there with some co-workers, I fortunately happened to be in one of my very rare moments where I was wearing a collared shirt in my free time. I tucked it in and got in line. While I was standing there, a bouncer kicked out a guy who did not have his shirt tucked in. The bouncer was a real ass about it too. I didn't cancel my plans that night, but I never went back to that sorry place again after that night. However, I didn't have the opinion that they didn't have a right to make that rule and kick people out for breaking it. It was somebody's private property. I just thought it was a ridiculous place with stupid rules. They ended up going out of business. There is a certain degree of kharma in capitalism.[/b]

Has the mall gone out of business? Also, your example hardly relates to THIS case. I understand that in a bar, you want a certain image, class or something. Also, the rules are set. Unless if you agree that for people they find ugly they make the rules a whole of a lot more strict.

In the case of the Mall, making up a rule on the spot is something totally different. What purpose did it serve? There is no reason to ban someone from your establishment wearing a peace-shirt if all the other people are wearing casual clothes too, except for political discrimination. Personally, I think McDonalds should, at least if they serve people with normal caps or those biker-bandannas, serve Muslim women that choose to wear a towel on their head (not a burka -covering everything including the face-, I could understand you don't want to serve people with ski-masks too). I don't see much difference between such cases, expect for that one is pure political discrimination and the other is pure religious (or even ethical/race) discrimination.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Since when is it more Silly to advocate peace then to advocate war?
Yeah, I know this bar that does about the same thing, they let people with certain T-shirts been denied entry. You know what is REALLY PURELY coincidental? That it are Black/Brown people that KEEP wearing T-shirts or Shoes the owner doesn't like. Really silly. It is totally fine however, it is the right of the owner. Not like people should be treated equally. (sarcasm)


Actually, it isn't important weather the guards were acting on their own of on someones else accord. I find it more a big deal they can hide their discrimination behind (their boss's) "Oh, but it is my own property".
Has the mall gone out of business? Also, your example hardly relates to THIS case. I understand that in a bar, you want a certain image, class or something. Also, the rules are set. Unless if you agree that for people they find ugly they make the rules a whole of a lot more strict.

In the case of the Mall, making up a rule on the spot is something totally different. What purpose did it serve? There is no reason to ban someone from your establishment wearing a peace-shirt if all the other people are wearing casual clothes too, except for political discrimination. Personally, I think McDonalds should, at least if they serve people with normal caps or those biker-bandannas, serve Muslim women that choose to wear a towel on their head (not a burka -covering everything including the face-, I could understand you don't want to serve people with ski-masks too). I don't see much difference between such cases, expect for that one is pure political discrimination and the other is pure religious (or even ethical/race) discrimination.[/b]

So, what should the law be? You can ban shirts that condone war on your own property, depending on how everybody else is dressed, but you can't ban shirts that protest war on your own property, and Muslim head towels should be allowed, depending on whether others are allowed to wear caps and bandanas, unless the owner wants a certain image? That would be a really strange law to pass.

If the mall didn't go out of business, not enough people knew what assholish rules it had.

Originally Posted by Universal

So, what should the law be? You can ban shirts that condone war on your own property, depending on how everybody else is dressed, but you can't ban shirts that protest war on your own property, and Muslim head towels should be allowed, depending on whether others are allowed to wear caps and bandanas, unless the owner wants a certain image? That would be a really strange law to pass.[/b]

No: You can set a dresscode. You shouldn't treat a T-shirt with "God bless America and the war" differently then a T-Shirt that says: "Stop the war" differently assuming they are both proper t-shirts. Assuming it are identical T-shirts, except for the text, on what ground are you discriminating/treating people differently? A purely political one. Do you agree with that? A dresscode is something different then political discrimination.

If the mall didn't go out of business, not enough people knew what assholish rules it had.[/b]

I am sure, that normally people do get to know. Of course. Not like most cases of racism and discrimination never get noticed. *sarcasm* But hey 'It private property". If you will excuse me, I am going to set up my ice-cream stand and refuse service to everyone with an American flag or symbol, would you like that? What if I had a mall, the closest shop to your home, would you still think it was fine?

Originally Posted by Neruo

If you will excuse me, I am going to set up my ice-cream stand and refuse service to everyone with an American flag or symbol, would you like that? What if I had a mall, the closest shop to your home, would you still think it was fine?[/b]

Would I like it? No. Would it be your right? In my country it would, and it should be. Is Holland just as free? We have a few exceptions, like racial and gender discrimination. I don't even believe in those exceptions. If a black guy wants to open an ice cream stand and call it "I Hate Sorry Pale Honkey Ass Crackers" and refuse to sell ice cream to white people, I think that should be his right. If you want to open an ice cream stand and refuse service to anybody wearing red, white, or blue, and you want to call it "America Sucks, So Americans Go The Fuck Away", it is YOUR business, so it should be your decision. I am a big valuer of private ownership. If you get to decide who can enter your house and what rules they have to follow while they are there, you should be able to do it with your business property. They are both YOUR property.

Originally Posted by Universal

Would I like it? No. Would it be your right? In my country it would, and it should be. Is Holland just as free?[/b]

No I don't have the 'freedom' to take away other people's ability to shop somewhere. Sorry universal, being allowed do discriminate does NOT make your country any more free. Being allow to smoke weed, that is freedom. And being able to burn your own flag, did they made that forbidden(unfree) in America yet? Are you being wiretapped yet? In the Netherlands, we don't have the 'freedom' to get wiretapped by HS :'(

We have a few exceptions, like racial and gender discrimination. I don't even believe in those exceptions. If a black guy wants to open an ice cream stand and call it "I Hate Sorry Pale Honkey Ass Crackers" and refuse to sell ice cream to white people, I think that should be his right. If you want to open an ice cream stand and refuse service to anybody wearing red, white, or blue, and you want to call it "America Sucks, So Americans Go The Fuck Away", it is YOUR business, so it should be your decision. I am a big valuer of private ownership. If you get to decide who can enter your house and what rules they have to follow while they are there, you should be able to do it with your business property. They are both YOUR property.[/b]

So it is fine? Then what did people (rednecks) in the 50s do wrong? Didn't they had the right to make separate bathrooms, and pay black people way less? I don't see what is the difference. Also, would discrimination as you put it in the ice-cream stand-scenario be okay if 99.99% of the population was black and refused to sell anything in any shop to the 0.001% of "pale honkey ass cracker"? Hmm, I wouldn't want to be a 'pale honkey ass cracker" in that country.