Thread: Americans, Write Your Congressman

The fact is, had it been legal to carry guns there, lives would have been saved. Likely the majority of them. What you should ask yourself is, where were the cops? Why didn't they get there sooner? How about this one, if someone breaks into your house do you think the cops will make it in time to save you if the guy decides to murder you? Be honest now. You know the truth is that you will be dead long before cops arrive.

Put yourself into their position. Your random person number 15. Do you put your trust in the police, that they will get there in time to save you? Or do you carry a gun, and take your safety into your own hands? Now we don't know what would of happened if you picked the second choice. We do know however, if you picked the first you would be dead.

Originally Posted by taltho

They'd probably be thinking about tazers and spit wads. Anyway they'd at least be thinking of how to use crude weapons of some device or another. They're criminals for christs sake that's what they do. They figure out how to exploit others for what they have. Also these people after being caught and if found guilty have no right to own a gun legally.

Hey people. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO BARE ARMS. For you that are, STOP TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS. If you people don't like your rights go sell yourselves as slaves to some African scum regime so the rest of us don't have to suffer with you.

Instead of making them illegal, why not teach firearms in our public schools to insure a nation of gun owners that can deter these criminals. And also evaluate early on who is capable of responsibly using a firearm. At least the common criminal would know their pray most likely has a gun and they'd hopefully think twice about committing a crime.[/b]

Oho! The comedian is back! Yes, they'd still use other ways to attack people, but the danger of a knife or whatever is significantly less, since it doesn't have the range.

Hahaha African slave scum regime? You have an interesting perception of the world outside America. Teaching kids to use guns - also not such a good idea! Considering most of the criminals using 'em are gonna be between teen-age and their 30s, you're teaching the wrong age-group; and besides, from the point of a psycho, I wouldn't give a damn how well-trained they were, I'd just have to kill them when they're in a more disadvantaged position. You can keep your rights; heck, why do I care? You're only killing eachother off! Natural selection and all that. Best of luck,　行け～～～！

Since 'every person should be allowed' to have a device to wound or kill other people, under the veil of self-defense, why doesn't America allow/like Iran, North-Korea and other such countries to have a device to wound or kill other countries, a nuclear missile, under the veil of self-defense?

Basically they are exactly the same thing. A gun is to a person what a nuke clear weapon is to a country. I see this as an inconsistency in the reasoning here.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Since 'every person should be allowed' to have a device to wound or kill other people, under the veil of self-defense, why doesn't America allow/like Iran, North-Korea and other such countries to have a device to wound or kill other countries, a nuclear missile, under the veil of self-defense?

Basically they are exactly the same thing. A gun is to a person what a nuke clear weapon is to a country. I see this as an inconsistency in the reasoning here.[/b]

It is illegal for felons to have guns here. But still, they can get their hands on them very, very easily. (Imagine such a thing.) The governments of Iran and North Korea are worlds beyond the level of a mere felon AND we can realistically keep them from having nuclear weapons. I hope you are not suggesting that they are just some average joe countries that need to protect their innocent little selves like anybody else. As far as I'm concerned, both of those governments have blown their right to even exist.

Originally Posted by Universal

The governments of Iran and North Korea are worlds beyond the level of a mere felon AND we can realistically keep them from having nuclear weapons.[/b]

Didn't you get the memo?
North Korea does have a nuclear weapons program.

Originally Posted by tyrantt23

Didn't you get the memo?
North Korea does have a nuclear weapons program. [/b]

For all we know (though I doubt it), Iran might too xD

Originally Posted by tyrantt23

Didn't you get the memo?
North Korea does have a nuclear weapons program. [/b]

AND we can realistically keep them from having them. I didn't say we can make it where they have a history of never having had them. For one thing, overthrowing their sorry asses would realistically make sure they don't have them.

Originally Posted by Universal

It is illegal for felons to have guns here. But still, they can get their hands on them very, very easily. (Imagine such a thing.) The governments of Iran and North Korea are worlds beyond the level of a mere felon AND we can realistically keep them from having nuclear weapons. I hope you are not suggesting that they are just some average joe countries that need to protect their innocent little selves like anybody else. As far as I'm concerned, both of those governments have blown their right to even exist.[/b]

So Iran and North Korea don't get the Right to defend themselves? Just because you call them felons? Also, luckily you aren't taking away their rights to defend themselves, they both are doing fine in the art of nuclear self-defense.

I wish Saddam had nuclear weapons, so you wouldn't have attacked him. Ha. Irony. But really, if he really had nuclear weapons, you couldn't have just barged in. It is a fact that you are handing out the rights who can have nuclear weapons, so you can have power over the others. Exactly what you claim guns should prevent on a smaller scale.

Also ironically, in peaceful countries like in Europe, no-one of the individual population needs self-defense on such a level as handguns.

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Bottom line: On a global scale, America is doing exactly what according to you guns prevent on a personal scale, by not having fair nuclear-weapon rights.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Bottom line: On a global scale, America is doing exactly what according to you guns prevent on a personal scale, by not having fair nuclear-weapon rights.[/b]

Bingo. I was tempted to bring this up earlier but then forgot, damn it.

Originally Posted by Neruo

So Iran and North Korea don't get the Right to defend themselves? Just because you call them felons? Also, luckily you aren't taking away their rights to defend themselves, they both are doing fine in the art of nuclear self-defense.

I wish Saddam had nuclear weapons, so you wouldn't have attacked him. Ha. Irony. But really, if he really had nuclear weapons, you couldn't have just barged in. It is a fact that you are handing out the rights who can have nuclear weapons, so you can have power over the others. Exactly what you claim guns should prevent on a smaller scale.

Also ironically, in peaceful countries like in Europe, no-one of the individual population needs self-defense on such a level as handguns.

Bottom line: On a global scale, America is doing exactly what according to you guns prevent on a personal scale, by not having fair nuclear-weapon rights.[/b]

I know. The scum that breaks into houses is there to give the residents voting rights and take away their genocidal oppressors' WMD potential due to their histories of WMD terrorism and their multiple ceasefire violations. There's no difference.

On the other hand, our big guns are what allow Europeans to be peaceful and free and get fucked up with their snobby noses in the air (in way too many cases, but not all) while they bitch all day every day about their protectors. Don't worry though. We would rather you be like that than taken over by those who would love to crash your big party. If anybody ever did take you over and take that lifestyle away from you, we would just take you over and force freedom right back down your throats.

Originally Posted by Universal

On the other hand, our big guns are what allow Europeans to be peaceful and free and get fucked up with their snobby noses in the air (in way too many cases, but not all) while they bitch all day every day about their protectors. Don't worry though. We would rather you be like that than taken over by those who would love to crash your big party. If anybody ever did take you over and take that lifestyle away from you, we would just take you over and force freedom right back down your throats.[/b]

haha I'm sure the same for vice versa

Originally Posted by Wolffe

haha I'm sure the same for vice versa [/b]

We're safe as long as Holland has our back!

Originally Posted by Universal

I know. The scum that breaks into houses is there to give the residents voting rights and take away their genocidal oppressors' WMD potential due to their histories of WMD terrorism and their multiple ceasefire violations. There's no difference.[/b]

So I can come to your house and force communism ('my' (not really lol) system of governing that I find superior) onto your children with my gun? Cool.

On the other hand, our big guns are what allow Europeans to be peaceful and free and get fucked up with their snobby noses in the air (in way too many cases, but not all) while they bitch all day every day about their protectors. Don't worry though. We would rather you be like that than taken over by those who would love to crash your big party. If anybody ever did take you over and take that lifestyle away from you, we would just take you over and force freedom right back down your throats.[/b]

Yeees, I am so glad we have got America. We really need it to protect us. lol. You really believe this 'we are in a way against terrorism' nonsense, do you? Terrorist have no business in Europe, except for the fact that we got dragged down the middle-east together with your silly war. If we wouldn't be in the middle-east, no one would have ever bombed London or Spain: In those countries they have better things to do then to attack neutral countries.

Terrorism and hate is solely directed against the west, for by far the largest part towards America, not because that is the nature of 'terrorist' ('terrorists' are just by-products of oppression/unfairness and (wrong) ideologies), but because America has been harassing countries since a long time ago.

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To sum it up for you: No. I am sorry, but America has no active or indirect role what so ever in defending the world from anything. You are just making the relations between the Muslims and the West more tense.

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Besides that, we were talking about guns. And regardless of how nice it all sounds "The right to defend myself (and my cattle)." (rednecks, get it? ) your arguments really hold little ground. I will ask you this with all sincerity: Do you think Europe will be better off if you allow everyone to carry around guns? Think about it properly, because I can garuantee you the answer will be "No". Yet you claim that a country needs gun-rights to be balanced and fair, while there is a great example of how guns are Not needed to have a perfectly well-functioning country/continent.

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I would also like to point out, that really, really few criminals here have guns. Unless if I was trafficking drugs or engaged into some criminal syndicate, which I am not, I could get mugged and burglarized a hundred times without seeing a gun. I then wonder why I know no-one that carries a knife. I think that in Europe is the most lethal means of self-defense that is legal to posses. It almost seems that we don't have the need to constantly think we are safe, just because we are packing a weapon.

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Lastly, probably you will disagree about this part, but if everyone has guns, criminals And victims, that just creates a 'balance' that is of no use. How many robbers will Not have guns in America? You pretty much Need a gun to defend yourself, you don't Get to have a gun to defend yourself. Anyhow, that left aside: Cops are Certainly worse off in America. Way and Way more cops get shot at and killed or wounded in America then in countries that arm whoever wants to be armed. By letting the population have guns, you are talking away some of the power-unbalance in Their advantage police Needs to properly do their jobs.

Neruo, I already explained why the U.S. is more violent than Europe. We have more violent incidents with every weapon. With that being the case, there is a huge gun market. As a result, the non-criminals need guns for self-defense. Review this thread for more details of my point.

Would Europe be better off if guns were legal? Yes! Burglaries and muggings would be way down.

The Islamofascists are on a mission to "kill the infidels". That includes you. Try visiting Ahmadenijad or Al-Zawihiri and telling them all about your attitude about religion and see what happens. They hate the West and its "infidel" ways. They despise Holland due to the legal prostitution and legal drugs. Bin Laden's first demand on the United States and all of the West is for us to convert to Islam and use the Koran as our only law book. Study up.

Without the United States policing the world, you would not be free right now. Naziism.... Soviet expansionism... for two examples. Have you ever heard of Eastern Europe? Go figure. Do you know how imprialistic and oppressive dictatorships in general are? Our presence on this planet PREVENTS a ton of oppressive take over. Review history and learn about country take over tendencies and how the map of the world was constantly changing for so long. You need us. You are not equipped to defend yourselves on your own.

Originally Posted by Universal

Neruo, I already explained why the U.S. is more violent than Europe. We have more violent incidents with every weapon. With that being the case, there is a huge gun market. As a result, the non-criminals need guns for self-defense. Review this thread for more details of my point.

Would Europe be better off if guns were legal? Yes! Burglaries and muggings would be way down.[/b]

Hahaha.

I am willing to bet a million dollars on that. No, make that my life. Seriously, you have no Idea how people work, do you? Or maybe you just know how Americans work, and that is a different story, so it seems. I should study Criminology, just to ask this to a professor, and laugh.

Jesus is this really how stupid you are? You really think that? I can tell you you are wrong. If I was a criminal, I would be delighted with such a law. Get me a weapon, and start mugging people. I would never have the balls to mug someone armed with a knife. With a gun, it would be a peace of cake man. A kid could hold up a bank.

Seriously, how much lower can crime rates in Europe get comparing to America? To bad guns will not do what you say. They will just cause a lot of idiots to shoot others and themselves.

The Islamofascists are on a mission to "kill the infidels". That includes you. Try visiting Ahmadenijad or Al-Zawihiri and telling them all about your attitude about religion and see what happens. They hate the West and its "infidel" ways. They despise Holland due to the legal prostitution and legal drugs. Bin Laden's first demand on the United States and all of the West is for us to convert to Islam and use the Koran as our only law book. Study up.[/b]

None of them KNOW where Holland is, or probably even give a shit about Europe. Also, going to Ahmandenijad and saying you are Atheist is almost as dangerous as going to Texas and saying you are atheist, and gay, and black. I am not joking.

Also, with your indoctrinated mind you Miss the fact that there are about as much Islamofacists in Islamic countries as there are KKK-members in southern states. However, xenophobia has really made you think every person that is Muslim is a horrible person, didn't it?

Without the United States policing the world, you would not be free right now. Naziism.... Soviet expansionism... for two examples. Have you ever heard of Eastern Europe? Go figure. Do you know how imprialistic and oppressive dictatorships in general are? Our presence on this planet PREVENTS a ton of oppressive take over. Review history and learn about country take over tendencies and how the map of the world was constantly changing for so long. You need us. You are not equipped to defend yourselves on your own.[/b]

I actually was in west Berlin recently. Really nice city. Also there I heard that you have been telling lies about the second world war. From a quite reliable source, it wasn't America (and the Brave British) that did 2/3s of the world, it really was Russia that Did plow through 2/3s of the german army. Some time ago you calamined it was the other way around.

It doesn't really matter, but that is one less. You didn't do half the work to get rid of Hitler.

Also, how did you repel 'Soviet expansionism' again? Vietnam war? By trowing Napalm around, on an unimportant country for the great USSR? Must have missed when you where there, spreading freedom and democracy, for the people in freaking east Germany until 1989.

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Is this whole 'cold war' vibe really still so alive in America, or is it just your (slightly older) generation? Fascination how one can have such a 'group vs group' hatred. 'Us brave Freedom Fighters' against 'the Cruel Islamic Terrorists'. Such polarity still fools, and has fooled, thousands to go to war. Really interesting how it returns thought the ages, and helps leaders let people kill each other. Nothing more powerful then 'black' propaganda I guess.

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Anyhow. Move to Europe. You don't need guns here. And you have on average better democracies and drug laws here.

Damn, Neruo. The less you have to say, the more you talk.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Hahaha.

I am willing to bet a million dollars on that. No, make that my life. Seriously, you have no Idea how people work, do you? Or maybe you just know how Americans work, and that is a different story, so it seems. I should study Criminology, just to ask this to a professor, and laugh.

Jesus is this really how stupid you are? You really think that? I can tell you you are wrong. If I was a criminal, I would be delighted with such a law. Get me a weapon, and start mugging people. I would never have the balls to mug someone armed with a knife. With a gun, it would be a peace of cake man. A kid could hold up a bank.

Seriously, how much lower can crime rates in Europe get comparing to America? To bad guns will not do what you say. They will just cause a lot of idiots to shoot others and themselves.[/b]

Criminals can get guns easily even when they are illegal, dumbass. (You want to get personally insulting? Let's do this.) I can't believe you are so fucking stupid you still haven't gotten my point about how violence comes first and the guns follow. How many times do I have to explain it to you before you acknowledge that the point was even made? And what the FUCK is the relevance of what a professor would say? I know enough about how people work (And you don't.) to know that the vast majority of professors are bitter losers who are pissed off about having inferiority complexes and, as a result, join your cult of fundamentalist liberalism. And I know you would be less likely to mug somebody if you thought that person most likely has a gun. Would YOU not?

Originally Posted by Neruo

None of them KNOW where Holland is, or probably even give a shit about Europe. Also, going to Ahmandenijad and saying you are Atheist is almost as dangerous as going to Texas and saying you are atheist, and gay, and black. I am not joking.[/b]

You ignorant fuck... Islamofascists have already murdered a reporter in Amsterdam. And they do hate the West, including YOU. This is not even subject to argument. Read Bin Laden's demands and what Islamofascists think of the entire West. And Texas has a very high black percentage, idiot. My aunt and uncle live in Houston and are both open atheists. But try being an open atheist in Iran, especially with the snippy attitude you show. You really need to stop pulling delusions out of your ass.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, with your indoctrinated mind you Miss the fact that there are about as much Islamofacists in Islamic countries as there are KKK-members in southern states. However, xenophobia has really made you think every person that is Muslim is a horrible person, didn't it?
I actually was in west Berlin recently. Really nice city. Also there I heard that you have been telling lies about the second world war. From a quite reliable source, it wasn't America (and the Brave British) that did 2/3s of the world, it really was Russia that Did plow through 2/3s of the german army. Some time ago you calamined it was the other way around.[/b]

I have LIVED in the American fucking South my ENTIRE life except for three months in Germany when I was a baby. I have never ever met somebody whom I knew to be a KKK member. They are a dead organization practically. But do you think you could live in Iran for one month without meeting somebody who wants to destory the U.S. and the rest of the West? We both know how absurd that is. I also have more degrees than you have pubes, so stop trying to pretend that I don't know about diversity within groups. It's a pretty simple concept. And if I were indoctrinated, I would not be an atheist or a lot of the other things I am. Idiot. Face it.... My political beliefs are based on my own reasoning, which is so logical it pisses you off.

Originally Posted by Neruo

I actually was in west Berlin recently. Really nice city. Also there I heard that you have been telling lies about the second world war. From a quite reliable source, it wasn't America (and the Brave British) that did 2/3s of the world, it really was Russia that Did plow through 2/3s of the german army. Some time ago you calamined it was the other way around.[/b]

We liberated Western Europe, which Russia didn't give a fuck about. Learn to read.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, how did you repel 'Soviet expansionism' again? Vietnam war? By trowing Napalm around, on an unimportant country for the great USSR? Must have missed when you where there, spreading freedom and democracy, for the people in freaking east Germany until 1989.[/b]

Cold War. American victory. Collapse of Soviet Union and liberation of Eastern Europe. Ungrateful bitch.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Is this whole 'cold war' vibe really still so alive in America, or is it just your (slightly older) generation? Fascination how one can have such a 'group vs group' hatred. 'Us brave Freedom Fighters' against 'the Cruel Islamic Terrorists'. Such polarity still fools, and has fooled, thousands to go to war. Really interesting how it returns thought the ages, and helps leaders let people kill each other. Nothing more powerful then 'black' propaganda I guess.[/b]

Oh, I guess there isn't a large Islamofascist movement of genocide against Westerners. It was all just a dream. Yeah, that's it. Let's all be a bunch of whiney little schmuck ass losers and act self-righteous about how we have convinced ourselves of that.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Anyhow. Move to Europe. You don't need guns here. And you have on average better democracies and drug laws here. [/b]

No, there are too many prejudiced, closed-minded, whiney, self-righteous, stupid, ignorant, ungrateful, sorry ass fundamentalist liberals there.

By the way, learn correct English if you want to have your nose in the air while you attempt to speak it.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

The government doesn't fear you full-stop. Most of the country are passive-sheep-spongey things, absorbing everything they tell you, just because you were born in a world where your government is accepted as 'right' and this is a more 'enlightened age' when barbaric things like Nazis, Huns and Romans could never exist anymore.[/b]

Ever heard of Islamists? They are like the Nazis and Huns.

The only reason the gun-free zones have problems is because guns are widely available outside, with no security precautions protecting residents from incoming gun-carriers.[/b]

GUNS CAN BE SECURITY MEASURES. DUH.

The military recommend a lot of moronic stuff; doesn't mean it's a good thing, it means its in their best interests to say it, like increasing gun, license, etc. sales[/b]

Oh, so the military makes their guns??? I didn't know that!!!

Originally Posted by Wolffe

It is illegal for felons to have guns here. But still, they can get their hands on them very, very easily. (Imagine such a thing.) The governments of Iran and North Korea are worlds beyond the level of a mere felon AND we can realistically keep them from having nuclear weapons. I hope you are not suggesting that they are just some average joe countries that need to protect their innocent little selves like anybody else. As far as I'm concerned, both of those governments have blown their right to even exist.[/b]

Agreed. They need their asses kicked.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

So Iran and North Korea don't get the Right to defend themselves? Just because you call them felons? Also, luckily you aren't taking away their rights to defend themselves, they both are doing fine in the art of nuclear self-defense.

I wish Saddam had nuclear weapons, so you wouldn't have attacked him. Ha. Irony. But really, if he really had nuclear weapons, you couldn't have just barged in. It is a fact that you are handing out the rights who can have nuclear weapons, so you can have power over the others. Exactly what you claim guns should prevent on a smaller scale.[/b]

So you would want Saddam to try to take over the entire Middle-East? Cause that's basically what he tried to do before.

Bottom line: On a global scale, America is doing exactly what according to you guns prevent on a personal scale, by not having fair nuclear-weapon rights.[/b]

Whoah boy. My Taurus 9 mil can kill millions of people in one shot. Man, I'm really gonna use this for self-defense.
A nuke is a fuckin WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. NOT a way of self defense.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

Jesus is this really how stupid you are? You really think that? I can tell you you are wrong. If I was a criminal, I would be delighted with such a law. Get me a weapon, and start mugging people. I would never have the balls to mug someone armed with a knife. With a gun, it would be a peace of cake man. A kid could hold up a bank.[/b]

A criminal will get a gun anyways, don't you people understand that? And a criminal who has never shot a gun before will have a hard time killing a person who has taken even just a firearms safety course.

Seriously, how much lower can crime rates in Europe get comparing to America? To bad guns will not do what you say. They will just cause a lot of idiots to shoot others and themselves.[/b]

THAT'S why gun education should be mandatory. And parents should take a more active role, by slapping their kids when they point the gun the wrong way, among other things.

None of them KNOW where Holland is, or probably even give a shit about Europe. Also, going to Ahmandenijad and saying you are Atheist is almost as dangerous as going to Texas and saying you are atheist, and gay, and black. I am not joking.[/b]

Have you ever been to Texas?

Also, with your indoctrinated mind you Miss the fact that there are about as much Islamofacists in Islamic countries as there are KKK-members in southern states. However, xenophobia has really made you think every person that is Muslim is a horrible person, didn't it?[/b]

The KKK is practically dead. I personally know moderate Muslims aren't horrible at all. It's the Islamists that are evil. Evil might be a new concept to you liberals, though.

Anyhow. Move to Europe. You don't need guns here. And you have on average better democracies and drug laws here. [/b]

But I want guns. The fact remains that even in Europe, crimes happen. There's no way around it. I'd rather have a way to defend myself, thanks very much.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

Damn, Neruo. The less you have to say, the more you talk.
Criminals can get guns easily even when they are illegal, dumbass. (You want to get personally insulting? Let's do this.) I can't believe you are so fucking stupid you still haven't gotten my point about how violence comes first and the guns follow. How many times do I have to explain it to you before you acknowledge that the point was even made? And what the FUCK is the relevance of what a professor would say? I know enough about how people work (And you don't.) to know that the vast majority of professors are bitter losers who are pissed off about having inferiority complexes and, as a result, join your cult of fundamentalist liberalism. And I know you would be less likely to mug somebody if you thought that person most likely has a gun. Would YOU not?
You ignorant fuck... Islamofascists have already murdered a reporter in Amsterdam. And they do hate the West, including YOU. This is not even subject to argument. Read Bin Laden's demands and what Islamofascists think of the entire West. And Texas has a very high black percentage, idiot. My aunt and uncle live in Houston and are both open atheists. But try being an open atheist in Iran, especially with the snippy attitude you show. You really need to stop pulling delusions out of your ass.
I have LIVED in the American fucking South my ENTIRE life except for three months in Germany when I was a baby. I have never ever met somebody whom I knew to be a KKK member. They are a dead organization practically. But do you think you could live in Iran for one month without meeting somebody who wants to destory the U.S. and the rest of the West? We both know how absurd that is. I also have more degrees than you have pubes, so stop trying to pretend that I don't know about diversity within groups. It's a pretty simple concept. And if I were indoctrinated, I would not be an atheist or a lot of the other things I am. Idiot. Face it.... My political beliefs are based on my own reasoning, which is so logical it pisses you off.
We liberated Western Europe, which Russia didn't give a fuck about. Learn to read.
Cold War. American victory. Collapse of Soviet Union and liberation of Eastern Europe. Ungrateful bitch.
Oh, I guess there isn't a large Islamofascist movement of genocide against Westerners. It was all just a dream. Yeah, that's it. Let's all be a bunch of whiney little schmuck ass losers and act self-righteous about how we have convinced ourselves of that.
No, there are too many prejudiced, closed-minded, whiney, self-righteous, stupid, ignorant, ungrateful, sorry ass fundamentalist liberals there.

By the way, learn correct English if you want to have your nose in the air while you attempt to speak it.[/b]

Ha, agreed again.

If guns are banend I will be sick. The right to bear arms was in the BILL OF RIGHTS, the 10 rights that we are guarenteed. If we remove one of the rights in the bill of rights, I swear to god i will lose all trust in American government.

Originally Posted by xcrissxcrossx

If guns are banend I will be sick. The right to bear arms was in the BILL OF RIGHTS, the 10 rights that we are guarenteed. If we remove one of the rights in the bill of rights, I swear to god i will lose all trust in American government.[/b]

Amen to that and hats off to you. I'll pack up and move to Canada, Hell might anyway. Well not yet I do love America, but if she betrays me I will.

Originally Posted by xcrissxcrossx

If we remove one of the rights in the bill of rights, I swear to god i will lose all trust in American government.[/b]

That is a great point. If one of the amendments in the Bill of Rights gets thrown out like a piece of trash, how secure can we feel about keeping the rest of them? Will the First (freedom of speech and religion) and Fourth (freedom from unlawful searches and seizures) get ditched like they're nothing too? Aren't liberals always complaining about 1984 here 1984 there? Throw out an amendment in the Bill of Rights and watch how things start getting.

Reminder:

Personally insulting/attacking is not allowed. Please act like mature adults - you can have a discussion (even if you don't agree with another person's point of view) without resorting to personal insults and name-calling.

If you can manage to continue this discussion in a mature manner, we will leave this thread open.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Universal

Would Europe be better off if guns were legal? Yes! Burglaries and muggings would be way down.[/b]

Burglaries and muggings would be down, shootings and murders would be way up

Originally Posted by Sagea

Ever heard of Islamists? They are like the Nazis and Huns.

GUNS CAN BE SECURITY MEASURES. DUH.
Oh, so the military makes their guns??? I didn't know that!!!
Agreed. They need their asses kicked.
So you would want Saddam to try to take over the entire Middle-East? Cause that's basically what he tried to do before.
Whoah boy. My Taurus 9 mil can kill millions of people in one shot. Man, I'm really gonna use this for self-defense.
A nuke is a fuckin WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. NOT a way of self defense.
A criminal will get a gun anyways, don't you people understand that? And a criminal who has never shot a gun before will have a hard time killing a person who has taken even just a firearms safety course.
THAT'S why gun education should be mandatory. And parents should take a more active role, by slapping their kids when they point the gun the wrong way, among other things.

Have you ever been to Texas?
The KKK is practically dead. I personally know moderate Muslims aren't horrible at all. It's the Islamists that are evil. Evil might be a new concept to you liberals, though.

But I want guns. The fact remains that even in Europe, crimes happen. There's no way around it. I'd rather have a way to defend myself, thanks very much.
Ha, agreed again.[/b]

1) Islamists are NOTHING like Nazis and Huns.

2) Have you even read what I've said there? The only reason gun-free areas have gun problems in America etc. is because of the readily available supply of guns in the immediate surrounding area.

3) Your gungho attitude isn't persuading anyone about the vaility of your opinion

4) A gun isn't a means of self-defence either. The only argument about guns being self defence is the point about deterence, and WMDs have the same effect; fact is they're the same category

5) Some criminals may, but these criminals are the hardcore criminals who'd only end up getting shot by police at a drugs raid, or gang shoot-out. It's a minimal threat to the average citizen, which is how it is in the UK; and no, a criminal will be more inclined to shoot someone who knows how to use a gun. Kill the threats as quick as possible, first, and leave the idiots til later - its the natural course of fighting

6) Evil is extinct; evil is just a generic label to slap on people, to justify killing them. Islam is far from evil.

Originally Posted by Burns

Reminder:

Personally insulting/attacking is not allowed. Please act like mature adults - you can have a discussion (even if you don't agree with another person's point of view) without resorting to personal insults and name-calling.

If you can manage to continue this discussion in a mature manner, we will leave this thread open.

Thanks.[/b]

I am glad to see you are finally reprimanding people for attacking me personally. Now I don't feel the need to do it myself. It is going to be an interesting change to come to this fun forum and experience peace now that it is not going to be the anti-American personal hate festival it has been for so long.

Originally Posted by Burns

Burglaries and muggings would be down, shootings and murders would be way up[/b]

If the burglaries and muggings are down, what would the shootings be about that knives, cars, and clubs have not already been about?

Originally Posted by Burns

1) Islamists are NOTHING like Nazis and Huns.[/b]

He is talking about Islamofascists, not all Muslims. Islamofascists want to kill everybody in Israel and the United States and turn the entire West into an oppressive Islamofascist state. Where is the moral superiority in that?

Originally Posted by Burns

4) A gun isn't a means of self-defence either. The only argument about guns being self defence is the point about deterence, and WMDs have the same effect; fact is they're the same category[/b]

WMD's do have that effect, but that is not the entire picture. Islamofascists with nukes is a scenario that CANNOT happen. They will kill people by the millions with them in the name of some psycho religious ideal that exists in their heads. Do you deny that? Also, we can realistically keep Islamofascist dictators from having nukes. We cannot keep common criminals from having guns. If you think we can, I would love to know your proposal. A war on drugs, I mean... guns?

Originally Posted by Burns

6) Evil is extinct; evil is just a generic label to slap on people, to justify killing them. Islam is far from evil.[/b]

Evil is malicious intent against the undeserving. It is very much a reality. Nobody is saying all Muslims are evil. We are saying that Islamofascists are profoundly evil and have to be dealt with accordingly. Do you believe otherwise?

Most importantly, again, how do you propose we get rid of all guns? If you are going to say that they are illegal in Europe and people don't have them there, you will be dodging the point I have made several times about how violent society is at the root of gun violence, not vice versa. Correlation does not prove causation. The illegality of guns is not what keeps Europe from being violent. The lack of violence in Europe is what prevents gun violence in Europe. So, how do you think we should go about making guns disappear when the power of underground markets is so immense? Also, if the U.S. just throws out its Second Amendment, what kind of danger will it create for the rest of the Bill of Rights?