Thread: 9/11 Conspiracy

Blah...blah..blah. What a joke! UM, Im starting to wonder if you are a computer bot that randomly spits out redundant lines of half-baked thought. Your posts are getting quite ironic.

I did in fact refer you directly to the fallacy you made, which was of the form, "Because there are not X number of experts making a public statement B, that therefore B is untrue." This is a non sequitur (meaning the conclusion does not follow from the premise), combined with an appeal to unbelief (few people believe A, therefore A is false.) And yes, fallacies can be combined to form ultra fallacies!

You committed a similar fallacy by exclaiming that one must be a demolitions expert in order to understand the most basic characteristics of controlled demolition as seen in WTC7.

And you have also made a factual error in claiming that Popular Mechanics somehow constitutes an expert opinion. The best they could do with the article on 911 was obtain a list of experts without any explanation of what evidence or research these experts provide to substantiate their inclusion in the article. Yes, this is an appeal to authority.

And just now you committed your favorite fallacy again by saying that because I am not "one of the experts who reads Popular Mechanics" that I am therefore not in a position to critique it. Seriously, given your astounding repetition of the same errors of reasoning its hard to believe you are being honest in debating at all.

Youtube: Popular Mechanics Caught Lying

Also

"In the case of Popular Mechanics, we see people being quite openly deceptive in their strong support of the Bush Administration's terror story. In their book they promote false claims that the government no longer supports, including the Pancake Theory. They also promote other, more ridiculous ideas including the claim that massive damage was done to the basement levels of a WTC tower by a bolus of jet fuel that meandered its way through several elevator shafts in the jogged elevator system, moving carefully around the elevators themselves and waiting all the while to explode in the sub-basements over 90 stories below. Additionally, PM repeats the false and ludicrous claim that the buildings were designed for airliner impacts, but not for jet fuel fires. In fact, John Skilling, the actual chief engineer of the WTC, made it clear in 1993 that jet fuel fires were considered in the structural design.[19]"...

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Blah...blah..blah. What a joke! UM, Im starting to wonder if you are a computer bot that randomly spits out redundant lines of half-baked thought. Your posts are getting quite ironic.

I did in fact refer you directly to the fallacy you made, which was of the form, "Because there are not X number of experts making a public statement B, that therefore B is untrue." This is a non sequitur (meaning the conclusion does not follow from the premise), combined with an appeal to unbelief (few people believe A, therefore A is false.) And yes, fallacies can be combined to form ultra fallacies!

You committed a similar fallacy by exclaiming that one must be a demolitions expert in order to understand the most basic characteristics of controlled demolition as seen in WTC7.

And you have also made a factual error in claiming that Popular Mechanics somehow constitutes an expert opinion. The best they could do with the article on 911 was obtain a list of experts without any explanation of what evidence or research these experts provide to substantiate their inclusion in the article. Yes, this is an appeal to authority.

And just now you committed your favorite fallacy again by saying that because I am not "one of the experts who reads Popular Mechanics" that I am therefore not in a position to critique it. Seriously, given your astounding repetition of the same errors of reasoning its hard to believe you are being honest in debating at all.

Youtube: Popular Mechanics Caught Lying

Also

"In the case of Popular Mechanics, we see people being quite openly deceptive in their strong support of the Bush Administration's terror story. In their book they promote false claims that the government no longer supports, including the Pancake Theory. They also promote other, more ridiculous ideas including the claim that massive damage was done to the basement levels of a WTC tower by a bolus of jet fuel that meandered its way through several elevator shafts in the jogged elevator system, moving carefully around the elevators themselves and waiting all the while to explode in the sub-basements over 90 stories below. Additionally, PM repeats the false and ludicrous claim that the buildings were designed for airliner impacts, but not for jet fuel fires. In fact, John Skilling, the actual chief engineer of the WTC, made it clear in 1993 that jet fuel fires were considered in the structural design.[19]"...

I said you didn't tell me specifically what the fallacy was. You told me the premise and conclusion involved in the supposed fallacy, but not the actual fallacy. Your explanation shows that you have not been reading very carefully. Look again...

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I said there are some. But I am talking about social phenomena that involve the masses. If you can figure out the demolition stuff, then every engineer, demolitionist, and construction foreman and supervisor in the world would have understood it in September of 2001. A two minute bar room conversation would result in every one of those people in the world knowing that the government's explanation is incorrect. That would turn into the biggest news story ever. I don't see any way around that. It would be like the government explaining how somebody died and using false medical science in the explanation. The entire medical community would pick up on that in a matter of days, and from there the whole world would know. So if the medical community at large doesn't do that, it means people posting in this thread so far generally would not have some keen understanding of any medical falsehoods the government is using. Think about that. We are talking about the biggest news event ever, and one that is at the root of a war my country is involved in. If there were construction/demolition falsehoods being used by the government that you and Memeticverb and others in this thread understand, how in the world would that not be getting screamed out by the masses of the actual experts? You're saying it, but they aren't? I don't come anywhere near seeing how that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You are still misunderstanding my point. I am not saying popular belief means truth. I am saying that truth that is so accessible and easy to understand that even regular Joes on a lucid dreaming forum site can understand it will be understood by the masses of experts, and when that happens in the type of evil situation we are talking about and it is the biggest news story of all time, the expert chatter would be the loudest sound in the world. It is about a social phenomenon that is not happening, not that popular belief automatically means truth. If what you are saying about stuff that is so building construction 101 is true, experts who disagree with it should be very rare. I don't know what exact number I would put on it, but it would be something in the insignificant zone. Experts are often wrong, but not about stuff that is this easy for every single one of them. We are not talking about rocket science or brain surgery principles that are debatable among people who understand those things. We are talking about no-brainer stuff for people who understand the basics. Something like what you are saying would be huge. And why would the government lie about something so easy for the experts to figure out in the biggest news story in history?

So if you think more clearly, you will see that my point is about social phenomena, not the automatic correctness of experts in all situations. But I also do believe that experts understand the mechanics of building collapse better than any of us. That includes Popular Mechanics. I can see why Bush haters who make up conspiracy theories would hate Popular Mechanics for calling bullshit on them. You seem to hate them for the same reason. Still, my main point is that the lack of social phenomena that in fact are not happening does illustrate that the bizarre conspiracy you claim happened did not happen. I made other arguments you have been ignoring.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Again... Who could have possibly been flying the airplanes? What suicide terrorists would be willing to die for Bush? Doesn't it make much more sense that they were suicide bombers dying for Allah and attacking their #1 enemy? The latter is so much more plausible.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Imagine how hard it would be to pull that off. Plenty of workers on the planes would know the pilots aren't there. Air traffic control would know that they aren't talking to the pilots. People working on the runway would look inside the airplanes and see that pilots are in there. Maintenance workers would see that the cockpit has some crazy extra equipment in it. There is no way the government could pull that off without a lot of people noticing.

And I expressed agreement where Half/Dreaming elaborated on the last one.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

What about the phone calls from Flight 93. We know there was a hostile takeover.

Do you get it yet? Counter away.

YAAAAAWN... are you still blowing your hot air UM? Just look at yourself. Now your arguing over whether or not he previously directly outlined the fallacy of your arguing style instead of dealing with the actual topic and points presented. Either way, he's already laid out where your way of thinking goes stagnant, regardless. Do you honestly need to wonder why people do nothing but skim over your lame baseless posts?

Here is his breakdown of your thinking since you seemed to have missed it, so you could attempt to bring it up for whatever lame reason...

Originally Posted by memeticverb

I did in fact refer you directly to the fallacy you made, which was of the form, "Because there are not X number of experts making a public statement B, that therefore B is untrue." This is a non sequitur (meaning the conclusion does not follow from the premise), combined with an appeal to unbelief (few people believe A, therefore A is false.) And yes, fallacies can be combined to form ultra fallacies!

It's a shame the only supporter of your baseless views is, Half/Dreaming, who is as equally Half/Witted as yourself. If only you were able to somehow splice your two minds together you might be able to have perspective enough to keep an open mind to grasp some of the concepts being presented in here... quite a shame really.

There's no point for me stepping back into this arguement because you two already have your minds made up about it, and never post sources or admit when a valid question has been raised. Openmindedness at it's worst.

I just thought I'd letcha know I wholly agree with memeticverb, and see the lame circular pattern of baseless biased ad hominum rhetoric, and have moved on. See ya around.

Solskye, your borderline fanatical views on this subject are the ones without support. Our "Al Qaeda" theory has, for all intensive purposes, "all the support in the world"

I think the thought of a conspiracy gets both of you sexually excited. I'm also sure it makes sense in your heads. The is no other reason why your theories would "make sense" to you.

If tower 7 was rigged with explosives, the noise of the explosives would have been much louder than the sound of the buiding falling. That sound was never heard.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

YAAAAAWN... are you still blowing your hot air UM? Just look at yourself. Now your arguing over whether or not he previously directly outlined the fallacy of your arguing style instead of dealing with the actual topic and points presented. Either way, he's already laid out where your way of thinking goes stagnant, regardless. Do you honestly need to wonder why people do nothing but skim over your lame baseless posts?

Here is his breakdown of your thinking since you seemed to have missed it, so you could attempt to bring it up for whatever lame reason...

It's a shame the only supporter of your baseless views is, Half/Dreaming, who is as equally Half/Witted as yourself. If only you were able to somehow splice your two minds together you might be able to have perspective enough to keep an open mind to grasp some of the concepts being presented in here... quite a shame really.

There's no point for me stepping back into this arguement because you two already have your minds made up about it, and never post sources or admit when a valid question has been raised. Openmindedness at it's worst.

I just thought I'd letcha know I wholly agree with memeticverb, and see the lame circular pattern of baseless biased ad hominum rhetoric, and have moved on. See ya around.

Wow, Solskye, you said... absolutely nothing. That is very consistent of you. I would congratulate you on your substantive arguments, but unfortunately, you didn't make any... ever. But let's go down your list of assertions that you can't back up with anything of substance.

1. Reality does not exist.
2. Women should be treated like shit because they know they suck.
3. Treating women like shit is justified as long as SolSkye gets his selfish way.
4. Al Qaeda does not exist. Anybody who thinks they do is a robot.
5. Anybody who disagrees with SolSkye is a robot.
6. Even atheists who think drugs should be legalized, flag burning should be legal, and religion has no place in government functions is a right wing robot.
7. SolSkye is better than everybody else just because he thinks he is. Remember... Reality does not exist.
8. SolSkye's music is anything better than God awful.

I think that pretty much sums up everything you have ever said here. If you don't have anything to add to that list, you will just be repeating your hollow assertions. Let me know if you actually have something to add to this conversation, even if it is just something to counter the things I said and reiterated when Memeticverb couldn't comprehend them. Maybe you can't either.

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Unfortunately for 911 Truth deniers, there is incontrovertible proof.

Demolition waves are clearly visible, exploding before the top mass can pulverize it.

Scientists and Academics have written articles claiming to prove the controlled demolition theory, and have not been refuted.

Its a simple fact that government officials have tried to cover up evidence, like the molten metal.

And I havnt seen one person in any forum discussing this topic even attempt to refute any of the facts and arguments provided by over a hundred Architects and Engineers.

Again, since none of the 911 Truth deniers has responded to any of these arguments or facts, they bear repeating. As well as this video comparison of WTC7 to a controlled demolition.

Oh and UM, why didn't you respond to the short video link I provided showing how Popular Mechanics "chief researcher" for the 911 article was caught in multiple lies? Or the fact that the article was not written by a real scientist, contained multiple fallacies, and was backed by no credible research? Popular Mechanics has lied so many times that it would take an hour to post all of them.

What about Flight 93?

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Again, since none of the 911 Truth deniers has responded to any of these arguments or facts, they bear repeating. As well as this video comparison of WTC7 to a controlled demolition.

Oh and UM, why didn't you respond to the short video link I provided showing how Popular Mechanics "chief researcher" for the 911 article was caught in multiple lies? Or the fact that the article was not written by a real scientist, contained multiple fallacies, and was backed by no credible research? Popular Mechanics has lied so many times that it would take an hour to post all of them.

What major source is that? Some Youtube video that claims to be something credible? Okay, let's pretend we should blindly trust that nobody source. They split hairs over the use of the term "pull it" and hound a mechanics expert on where a DNA sample came from and he didn't know. Yippie whooptie wooo!!! I am not basing my argument on Popular Mechanics any way. I told Alric that none of us are demolition experts and flat out said I was speculating on what might have happened to building 7 and said on a side note that a Popular Mechanics article argued what I speculated. I have said many times in this thread that I don't know enough about the mechanics of demolition to argue about how boards and beams should have fallen and melted. So let's get to the arguments I have been making and you have been ignoring.

Respond to the points you have ignored after two rounds of my posting, particularly the ones concerning the social phenomena I described and didn't happen and the points about the airplanes. Your bizarre story is not adding up.

UM, Since you must resort to direct insults without correlation or connection to the debate, you have in essence conceded defeat. That'd be the exact same thing as, after having ran out of steam to continue on, you have no choice but to stoop as low as throwing around, YO MOMMA, jokes in desperation. How old are you again, 35? going on 12? How pathetic.

Hating on my music has nothing to do with al Qaeda, 9-11, or anything about anything, and all it proves to me is you are some jealous unproductive loser ex-social worker who stays up until ungodly hours of the morning, arguing things without backing them up, while listening to Led Zepplin, and knows next to nothing about music or music production. If you knew anything about music or the elements and instruments involved you would know you are full of it, it's pathetic really. No one in real life has ever said any of the things you said, because quite simply there is no one that feels the way you do.

So, tell me again where does my music, or my views on manipulation which you even later agreed with me on, have anything to do with this? You unproductive jealous tool, you.

I'll bet there's a lot of people on Earth that don't like you. Go ahead, make another post about how my insults are an act of desperation . Honestly, how are you any different?

What about Flight 93?

Also, can I get a link to this music? I want to hear the next Elvis before he gets famous.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

UM, Since you must resort to direct insults without correlation or connection to the debate, you have in essence conceded defeat. That'd be the exact same thing as, after having ran out of steam to continue on, you have no choice but to stoop as low as throwing around, YO MOMMA, jokes in desperation. How old are you again, 35? going on 12? How pathetic.

Hating on my music has nothing to do with al Qaeda, 9-11, or anything about anything, and all it proves to me is you are some jealous unproductive loser ex-social worker who stays up until ungodly hours of the morning, arguing things without backing them up, while listening to Led Zepplin, and knows next to nothing about music or music production. If you knew anything about music or the elements and instruments involved you would know you are full of it, it's pathetic really. No one in real life has ever said any of the things you said, because quite simply there is no one that feels the way you do.

So, tell me again where does my music, or my views on manipulation which you even later agreed with me on, have anything to do with this? You unproductive jealous tool, you.

Oh, I was thinking you used personal insults in your previous posts, as well as the above one. Maybe not. Your entire argument is always, "You're a robot. You're a sheep. You suck. I'm better than you." So I thought I would play your game a little bit, but only after making points that you obviously can't counter. You know very little about my job history or the business I do now. I got a law degree after I stopped being a social worker, and now I work for myself. I do know about music, and I am not the only person on Earth who would gag after hearing your music. Make it where five people on Earth have heard it, and you will get the same reaction. Now if you would like to get insults out of our conversations, let's see it.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Also, can I get a link to this music? I want to hear the next Elvis before he gets famous.

There's a Myspace link in his sig line. Prepare yourself.

All of my insults have been in the vein of the topic at hand and should've been taken with a grain of salt. You didn't actually let one hit home, did you? Only after you bothered to stoop as low as to throw around Yo momma jokes, did I bother doing the same about talking about your ex-social worker too much free time loser status. Only to show how pointless and stupid a method it is.

An eye for an eye leaving the world blind, and all that jazz. Fun stuff.

I know what our music is and what it isn't. You try talking like you know what you like and what not, but we have plenty of people that dig our music and have listened to it so it really means nothing that you hate it. I wouldn't want someone with your 'refined' tastes listening to our music anyway. Try looking into the 'shakuhachi' which we incorporate into the music. It's only one of the world's most difficult instruments to play, and all. Y'know, nothing special. Be my guest though. Lace into our music all you want. You must know absolutely nothing about our music or our influences, or you wouldn't be able to say the things you are saying. It's funny how you're desperately trying to find something that'll strike a nerve with me, and as always, you are sadly mistaken. Poor baby

Originally Posted by SolSkye

All of my insults have been in the vein of the topic at hand and should've been taken with a grain of salt. You didn't actually let one hit home, did you? Only after you bothered to stoop as low as to throw around Yo momma jokes, did I bother doing the same about talking about your ex-social worker too much free time loser status. Only to show how pointless and stupid a method it is.

An eye for an eye leaving the world blind, and all that jazz. Fun stuff.

I know what our music is and what it isn't. You try talking like you know what you like and what not, but we have plenty of people that dig our music and have listened to it so it really means nothing that you hate it. I wouldn't want someone with your 'refined' tastes listening to our music anyway. Try looking into the 'shakuhachi' which we incorporate into the music. It's only one of the world's most difficult instruments to play, and all. Y'know, nothing special. Be my guest though. Lace into our music all you want. You must know absolutely nothing about our music or our influences, or you wouldn't be able to say the things you are saying. It's funny how you're desperately trying to find something that'll strike a nerve with me, and as always, you are sadly mistaken. Poor baby

Calling me lame, half witted, full of hot air, and closed minded was on topic? This thread is supposed to be about me, not 9/11? I'm honored. A grain of salt? Oh, how convenient. Uh, yeah, me too. While I'm at it, I agree that your music is very special and that nobody with taste could ever possibly not like it. At least I didn't strike a nerve with you. If you have anything to say to disprove the statements I made about the actual subject of this thread, I'm ready to get back to it whenever you are. Try to stay on topic from now on.

I've already said I'm done arguing in this thread since you guys don't even bother entertaining or acknowledging legitimate questions, or outlining where you get your ideas. Honestly though, it doesn't strike a nerve with me about critiquing the music, at least I do something productive with myself. How about you? Also, I'd say winning a few composition contests, getting over twenty-five thousand plays in a little over a year's time, is pretty damn good. We didn't go searching for all those fans, either. *shrugs* Meh... just luck, I guess.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I've already said I'm done arguing in this thread since you guys don't even bother entertaining or acknowledging legitimate questions, or outlining where you get your ideas. Honestly though, it doesn't strike a nerve with me about critiquing the music, at least I do something productive with myself. How about you? Also, I'd say over twenty-five thousand plays in a little over a year's time, is pretty damn good. We didn't go searching for all those fans, either. *shrugs* Meh... just luck, I guess.

Obviously I didn't strike a nerve. You must be telling the truth. People won't shut the Hell up about you. All I ever hear about around town any more is SolSkye. I keep seeing your videos everywhere I go. The kids around town have your name all over their notebooks too. You're huge! If you ever play in Jackson, I will buy out the auditorium so I can enjoy your greatness all by myself. Well, maybe I won't have to spend that kind of money. I'll tell you what. I'll give you $5 if you play in my backyard. I'll even let you use my computer so you can change the subject in fourm threads and demand that people believe your music is worth a damn. I'll even help you out by telling them it is. Everybody, spread the word... SolSkye's repetetive racket with that annoying voice is so awesome!

Please tell me again how the social phenomena I described would not take place if the 9/11 conspiracy were true. Or did you mean to answer that by insulting everybody who doesn't love your enchanting melodies?

Jackson? Where is that Mississippi? With a whopping 184k for a population. What a place to be from, you must be so proud to be from a place with such cultured and refined tastes! Do they even have dance clubs in Mississippi, or just hoe downs?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Jackson? Where is that Mississippi? With a whopping 184k for a population. What a place to be from, you must be so proud to be from a place with such cultured and refined tastes! Do they even have dance clubs in Mississippi, or just hoe downs?

No debate? I'm so surprised.

The metro area has more than half a million. Along with being the birthplace of a lot of classic country music legends, Mississippi is the birth place of the blues and rock and roll. Have you ever heard of those? It's not the repetitive bing bong vomit quest you know so well, but those are widely considered great forms of music. But not as good as SolSkye. A lot of the greatest writers in history are from here too. Get yourself educated.

Have you gotten up the guts for some more debate yet?

I am educated, you forget I'm from the diverse capital of our nation and now have an international business at age 25. I know what I'm talking about, unlike yourself.

WOW... a whopping Half a million, eh? It must be a thriving metropolis with all kinds of artsy-fartsy tomfoolery for everyone then!
As of the census² of 2000, there were 131,420 people, 47,676 households, and 35,709 families residing in the county. The population density was 70/km² (181/mi&#178. There were 51,678 housing units at an average density of 27/km² (71/mi&#178. The racial makeup of the county was 75.35% White, 20.87% Black or African American, 0.33% Native American, 1.57% Asian, 0.04% Pacific Islander, 0.72% from other races, and 1.12% from two or more races. 2.14% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race... SUCH A DIVERSE PLACE!

So no dance clubs, eh? Thought so.
Waait a minute, you do have dance clubs...oops that's SQUARE dance clubs...LOL. Face Your Corner -- Dosado; Face Your Partner -- Dosado; around 2 dancers -- Dosado. *annoying incessant fiddle playing with a bunch of overweight middle-class hick white women dancing around in country getup* I shudder to think...


Anyway, that's quite alright... there's no point in arguing with some close-minded country bumpkins about how things work outside their backwater town. I'm out of here. Peace out. (^o^)v

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I am educated, you forget I'm from the diverse capital of our nation and now have an international business at age 25. I know what I'm talking about, unlike yourself.

So no dance clubs, eh? Thought so. Anyway, that's quite alright... there's no point in arguing with some close-minded country bumpkins about how things work outside their backwater town. I'm out of here. Peace out. (^o^)v

You should get paid to pull things out of your ass. By the way, I want to follow SolSkye next summer. Then I can brag to the Widespread Panic fans that I topped them. I'm sure they'll agree.

Solskye, what about Flight 93 and Osama's confession?

Just to summarize, here are a couple points UM and Half Dreaming have not even engaged, let alone given arguments against.

1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds, has along with many other FBI agents, blown the whistle on top officials within the FBI, saying they have supported terrorists and protected them.

Her claims were reviewed and confirmed by the Justice Department, but all efforts since this have been blocked by Attorney General without cause.

"On January 14, 2004 , the Justice Department's Office unclassified summary of the Justice Department's Inspector General's report on Edmonds found that many of her claims "were supported, that the FBI did not take them seriously enough, and that her allegations were, in fact, the most significant factor in the FBI's decision to terminate her services."


2) FBI AGENT ROBERT WRIGHT SAYS FBI AGENTS ASSIGNED TO INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS CONTINUE TO PROTECT TERRORISTS FROM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS

"Wright is the only FBI agent to seize terrorist funds (over $1.4 million) from U.S.-based Middle Eastern terrorists using federal civil forfeiture statutes, prior to the September 11th attacks. The original source of the funds was Yassin Kadi, a Saudi businessman, who is reportedly a financier of Osama bin Laden.

SA Wright points to recent misconduct and falsifications of wiretap warrant applications by FBI agents (signed-off by the former FBI Director, Louis Freeh) to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Court. Prior to September 11th, SA Wright alleged FBI intelligence agents lied and hid vital records from" criminal agents for the purpose of obstructing his criminal investigation of the terrorists in order to protect their “subjects,” and prolong their intelligence operations."

__________________________________________________ __________

Ok so we can leave the physical hard evidence alone for a brief moment, because as has already been pointed out, such evidence is irrefutable, and the best rebuttal from has been a logical fallacy, not to mention completely unsupported by any kind of evidence. According to UM - "There should be more engineers risking their lives and careers besides the thousands who are already doing so because..."

Lets talk about the whistle-blowers, whose claims have been verified by the justice department, and the official investigations of which have only been blocked by executive order.

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the FBI, or these people's ranks and access to classified materials. Yet in the end, all you have is the assumptions of a few FBI. I also know that if this were tied to 9/11, no peons like the ones you've mentioned would be allowed to know.

As to "controlled demolitions". That amount of explosives would have made and undeniable noise, predicted by professionals to be as loud or louder than the actual buildings falling. This noise would have also been in one, short BOOM. You claim this happened in 3 buildings. Nobody heard these noises. Due to the lack of people claiming to hear these noises, it is illogical that they ever happened. I feel obligated to mention that explosives in the basement would have dropped the entire building, then fell. Instead, the basement was the very last to be affected.

I have responded to your "evidence". Now please, by the grace of GOD can you counter our arguments? What about Flight 93 and the proven hostile takeover? What about Osama bin Laden, the educated architect, and his confession?

For the sake of the argument don't respond to my counterarguments until you have answered my questions. Do it in the same post if you want. But, I have gone a very long time without getting these answers.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about the FBI, or these people's ranks and access to classified materials. Yet in the end, all you have is the assumptions of a few FBI. I also know that if this were tied to 9/11, no peons like the ones you've mentioned would be allowed to know.

As to "controlled demolitions". That amount of explosives would have made and undeniable noise, predicted by professionals to be as loud or louder than the actual buildings falling. This noise would have also been in one, short BOOM. You claim this happened in 3 buildings. Nobody heard these noises. Due to the lack of people claiming to hear these noises, it is illogical that they ever happened. I feel obligated to mention that explosives in the basement would have dropped the entire building, then fell. Instead, the basement was the very last to be affected.

I have responded to your "evidence". Now please, by the grace of GOD can you counter our arguments? What about Flight 93 and the proven hostile takeover? What about Osama bin Laden, the educated architect, and his confession?

For the sake of the argument don't respond to my counterarguments until you have answered my questions. Do it in the same post if you want. But, I have gone a very long time without getting these answers.

Anyone can counter your arguments, quite easily in fact. As for a few FBI, no its quite a few, and they have evidence that they discovered, and has been verified by the Justice Department.

You say no one heard explosions in the tower. Wrong. 118 Firefighters and paramedics reported hearing very loud explosions. Dozens of them distinctly referencing controlled demolition and bombs.

The govt did everything in its power to stop these testimonies from being released to the public. Just read what some of the judges ended up saying about that. Why would t 911 Families have to wage multiple court battles to release something that was public property? Why was the govt trying to hide them, and what were they trying to hide?

As for your questions they are irrelevant and in no way, even if proven correct, (that osama had a hand in the attacks, or that 93 happened the way the govt says) would discount all the evidence for controlled demolition, and the evidence verified by the Justice Department of numerous FBI whistle-blowers that top officials in the FBI are funding and protecting terrorists.

Where were these explosives planted?