Thread: 9/11 Conspiracy

Originally Posted by tyrantt23

And I am still waiting for someone to tell me what's the deal with airplane peanuts! :p

Yeah! $700 for a ticket, and they give me a pack of five peanuts that a backward ass gas station would be too embarassed to sell! That's what really pissed off the 9/11 hijackers.

I shared my own little worthless two cents, argued a little bit, got whatever quick release I could've possibly gotten from this pointless discussion, and have since grown tired of this thread and moved on...But, since Univeral Mind asked me nicely to come back and respond, I'll humor him just this once...

The thing is, no one can disprove or prove anyone wrong because everyone admittedly knows next to nothing about the day in question. The events have long since been over, so if there was a coverup no speculating can do anything about it now. If there wasn't a coverup, then there were many questionable elements of that day that still remain unanswered.

So, it will forever be like the ultimate question: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know...

The least you can do is entertain all possibilities no matter how unlikely until they are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Like any fair court of law. I dont feel any of these matters have been proven outright wrong. I also don't think that asking questions like, what happened to the confiscated tapes, is crazy...it's a legitimate question. Especially, since I didn't personally hear or see a plane hit the pentagon being fairly close to the whole ordeal. If they have more tapes of that day, by all means, make them available. Isn't that what the freedom of information act is for? What possible harm could the tapes serve now unless they have incriminating evidence countermining current versions of the story? Yet, the requests to view them have been continually denied. Why? *shrugs* Dunno, sounds pretty fishy to me. Anyway, whether it was an inside job or not, I'm pretty sure the goverment knows something more than they are leading on about it, and have capitalized on that to spread fear and gain more power. It's naturally what goverments are good at...

You need only look at my signature, but I think, everyone should question everything until they see proof one way or the other. I think that's a healthy way to look at the world. So, until the time someone provides us with some solid incontrovertible proof... everyone is neither right or wrong...

See ya around...

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I shared my own little worthless two cents, argued a little bit, got whatever quick release I could've possibly gotten from this pointless discussion, and have since grown tired of this thread and moved on...But, since Univeral Mind asked me nicely to come back and respond, I'll humor him just this once...

The thing is, no one can disprove or prove anyone wrong because everyone admittedly knows next to nothing about the day in question. The events have long since been over, so if there was a coverup no speculating can do anything about it now. If there wasn't a coverup, then there were many questionable elements of that day that still remain unanswered.

So, it will forever be like the ultimate question: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know...

The least you can do is entertain all possibilities no matter how unlikely until they are proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Like any fair court of law. I dont feel any of these matters have been proven outright wrong. I also don't think that asking questions like, what happened to the confiscated tapes, is crazy...it's a legitimate question. Especially, since I didn't personally hear or see a plane hit the pentagon being fairly close to the whole ordeal. If they have more tapes of that day, by all means, make them available. Isn't that what the freedom of information act is for? What possible harm could the tapes serve now unless they have incriminating evidence countermining current versions of the story? Yet, the requests to view them have been continually denied. Why? *shrugs* Dunno, sounds pretty fishy to me. Anyway, whether it was an inside job or not, I'm pretty sure the goverment knows something more than they are leading on about it, and have capitalized on that to spread fear and gain more power. It's naturally what goverments are good at...

You need only look at my signature, but I think, everyone should question everything until they see proof one way or the other. I think that's a healthy way to look at the world. So, until the time someone provides us with some solid incontrovertible proof... everyone is neither right or wrong...

See ya around...

Just thought I'd say... very nice post SolSkye!

Unfortunately for 911 Truth deniers, there is incontrovertible proof.

Demolition waves are clearly visible, exploding before the top mass can pulverize it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri9Uz1Wa-Xc

WTC7 displays all the characteristics of controlled demolition, not to mention features which can only be explained by it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFFkbo3o0NM

Scientists and Academics have written articles claiming to prove the controlled demolition theory, and have not been refuted.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...Demolition.pdf

Its a simple fact that government officials have tried to cover up evidence, like the molten metal.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03712325092501

And I havnt seen one person in any forum discussing this topic even attempt to refute any of the facts and arguments provided by over a hundred of Architects and Engineers.
http://www.ae911truth.org/

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Unfortunately for 911 Truth deniers, there is incontrovertible proof.

Demolition waves are clearly visible, exploding before the top mass can pulverize it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri9Uz1Wa-Xc

WTC7 displays all the characteristics of controlled demolition, not to mention features which can only be explained by it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFFkbo3o0NM

Scientists and Academics have written articles claiming to prove the controlled demolition theory, and have not been refuted.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...Demolition.pdf

Its a simple fact that government officials have tried to cover up evidence, like the molten metal.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03712325092501

And I havnt seen one person in any forum discussing this topic even attempt to refute any of the facts and arguments provided by over a hundred of Architects and Engineers.
http://www.ae911truth.org/

This proves 100 percent that the United States government is responsible. Because of these wonderful unbias videos you've shown me, I will ignore all the evidence that stupidly points to Al Qaeda. Thank you, sir, for opening my eyes to our government killing people it's people for oil. Our politicians so desperately need money.

I guess the people who were willing to kill themselves so Bush's cronies could get rich knew where the explosives were planted and flew their planes exactly 1 floor over them.

And the people responsible said, hey, why not destroy Tower 7? Its only been a couple of hours after the attacks!! These people also said, hey, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY a single person could photograph our cruise missile going into the Pentagon. Lets go forward with the plan!!

I also guess they knew Saddam Hussein wouldn't let Inspectors into the bunkers. I guess they knew a major terrorist leader would admitt to the attacks. All thanks to the government's Oracle of Truth, who can tell the future.

It all makes sense. Thank you, sir.

By the way, you are a 9/11 Truth denier. And do you not think Democrats would be jumping all over this shit to blame Bush? You think you understand what happened. Democrats know much more than you do, and they are not calling it a conspiracy. They would piss their pants if they found that out, and it would be on the news every day.

ROFL! Yeah keep telling yourself that you actually responded to a single piece of evidence just posted and didnt commit multiple logical fallacies!

Originally Posted by memeticverb

ROFL! Yeah keep telling yourself that you actually responded to a single piece of evidence just posted and didnt commit multiple logical fallacies!

You have no proof for me to counter. I watched your videos. There is no proof, and fankly I didn't see any explosions.

I will ask again. Why aren't Bush's political enemies saying this everyday?

While you're at it, prove to me that fanatical Muslims didn't do this. I swear to God I will come to where you live and kiss your feet if you can do that.

I would also like to point 1 more time that the buildings did not fall from the bottom. Explosives in the basement would not have done a thing.

I did you a courtesy by watching your videos. Now if you would, please read this article.

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archiv...14-610042.html

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

You have no proof for me to counter. I watched your videos. There is no proof, and fankly I didn't see any explosions.

You mean all I have to do for every fact that I dont like is say, "Thats not a fact," and I can believe anything I want?

Sorry, simply saying that there isnt any proof isnt even an argument. Half Dreaming, youve responded neither directly nor indirectly to any evidence.

There so much proof that hundreds of Architects and Engineers have created an independent organization with the sole purpose of spreading the truth about the 3 WTC buildings that were demolished with explosives.

Theres so much proof that thousands of academics, and millions of intelligent Americans have accepted the CD theory as undoubtedly true.

Even more proof than all the links I just posted (some showing molten iron flowing out of one of the twin towers, other showing demolition waves exploding before the tower can collapse, others showing the perfectly symmetrical collapse of WTC7 impossible without cutter charges removing the resistance, etc) can be found here:

http://journalof911studies.com/volum...emistryWTC.pdf

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Sorry, simply saying that there isnt any proof isnt even an argument.

Oh, it's not? Well then... The invisible aliens working for the CIA have sex with vegetable robots from Atlantis, which was shipped to Neptune in 2538, in order to create a voodoo spell which projects holographic images of soldiers to create the illusion that the U.S. military exists. Kennedy is still the president of the supposed United States, and he is also the Great Pumpkin. I guess the sky is the limit on the legitimate acceptance of claims if the point that there is no proof doesn't qualify as an argument.

I certainly would not nearly go as far as to say that our own GOVERNMENT is responsible for these attacks. I loath and despise most or our current government, but to say that they would kill thousands of their own citizens to me seems completely unrealistic. As far as these videos, I will not deny that they do have SOME rather convincing bits of evidence, such as the demolition thing, and the fact that it is scientifically impossible for a boeing 700 series jet to be vaporized entirely by jet fuel as the government claims.

I think the government knows a lot that we do not, but I still have concluded at least for myself that this was terrorists. Logically, it makes sense. Around the world we are gaining more enemies constantly. Just a thought.

Originally Posted by memeticverb
Sorry, simply saying that there isnt any proof isnt even an argument.

That..doesn't quite make sense. Of course that's an argument. The lack of proof or a logical explanation of things is grounds for a lost argument.

On a side note...

Many psychologists say that aggression is most commonly linked to fear. Do many of you act so immature and childlike because you might be....afraid of being wrong? I guess all of the unnecessary childish sarcastic remarks are a result of letting kids partake in what once were "intelligent" discussions. So sad that so few have the maturity to have a friendly debate. it is not impossible to make your point without insulting other people.

Of course I'm afraid of being wrong. Its part of the human condition. And, yes, insults and smirky remarks are a defense mechanism. But when I read some of the stuff I do here, smirky remarks just sound so good in my head. It kind of spices up the conversations.

But, my sacrasm, especially 2 posts before this one, is meant to point out the idiocy of the conspiracy theory, in a way that only sarcasm can do. Read that post, and you will see how stupid the conspiracy theory is, and how shaky the ground it stands on is.

On the other hand, the al Aqeda "theory" is rock hard.

And why is not agreeing with someone grounds for insulting them? There is no way you can justify it. It is entirely unnecessary, and you'll never convince me otherwise. Defense is one thing, but when someone presents a point, and gets insulted out of the blue, that's not defense, that's entirely offense. People attack others on these forums, for absolutely no reason. There's no getting around this one.

Originally Posted by Rainman

And why is not agreeing with someone grounds for insulting them? There is no way you can justify it. It is entirely unnecessary, and you'll never convince me otherwise. Defense is one thing, but when someone presents a point, and gets insulted out of the blue, that's not defense, that's entirely offense. People attack others on these forums, for absolutely no reason. There's no getting around this one.

We're all big-boys here. I don't think anyone has gotten their feelings hurt.

My sarcasm only surfaces when I feel like people aren't reading or understand what I am saying, something Solskye had admitted to doing. But you're right, that doesn't mean it is going to make a difference.

We're all big-boys here. I don't think anyone has gotten their feelings hurt.

That's not the point. I am only acknowledging that it is unfortunate that people are so simple minded that they are incapable of arguing intelectually and like mature adults. So instead many people throw insults into the argument that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and it doesn't contribute in any way.

Please understand that I am by no means singling you out. If you feel like I was, sorry. I'm merely pointing out that all of these insulting comments people continuously make are completely pointless, and actually counterproductive. But let's not hijack the topic of this thread, no pun intended :p

9/11 was carried out by fanatical Islamo-fascist terrorists because we interfered with their ignorant violence directed toward all "infidels", which includes other Muslims and Jews. They believe our attempt to create stability by establishing the boundaries of Israel was a dirct intervention of their conquest to exterminate the Jews.

Now, the same people think they can break our will by using sissy tactics and killing civilians, and to get us to leave so they can continue their oppressive regimes of the countries they used to rule. In the future, they want oppressive Islamic leadership of the world and the conversion, enslavement, or death of every non-Muslim.

Any person who denies the existence of fanatical Islam or their intentions to kill us using terrorist attacks is absolutely ridiculus.

It would indeed be silly to imply that there are no terrorists. That much is obvious. However, it was not our buisiness to interfere with the ongoings of their pointless violence. America thinks it's god and we can just step in whenever the fuck we want. Ridiculous. We brought this on ourselves, largely. Notice how no one ever fucks with countries like Australia? It's cause Australia doesn't stick their nose in things that have nothing to do with them.

America has been the protector of the world for the last 60 years. We assumed that position after WW2, because the major European countries let Hitler rise to power and construct his army, breaking god knows how many EU rules for Germany. American politicians feel they must take preliminary action so that never happens again. If you say "well its not going to happen again", think about that for a moment. It will never happen again because of America's might. But, if we become a "peace only" nation, our might and fear factor is gone. The duality is amazing. Our war mongering actions are the same actions that provide security to the world.

So many people hate America. But deep down they know that if America were to just dissapear one day, they would find themselves in a deep pile of shit. Just imagine a world where America's big ass army wasn't there to free Kuwait. Who knows how many other countries would just take other countries if they weren't afraid of retalliation from us.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Now, the same people think they can break our will by using sissy tactics and killing civilians, and to get us to leave so they can continue their oppressive regimes of the countries they used to rule.

I find it funny in a dark humor kind of way that you say that. You know, terrorists aren't the only ones killing civilians. Some american soldiers in Iraq are only worsening the situation by many degrees! Take a look at this video, and this one about how "air support" works on the battlefield (warning, graphic content). Is that how you are supposed to protect and defend other countries? Is that how you provide security to the world? I would actually say that's actually how you piss off the rest of the world...

Originally Posted by tyrantt23

I find it funny in a dark humor kind of way that you say that. You know, terrorists aren't the only ones killing civilians. Some american soldiers in Iraq are only worsening the situation by many degrees! Take a look at this video (warning, graphic content). Is that how you are supposed to protect and defend other countries? Is that how you provide security to the world? I would actually say that's actually how you piss off the rest of the world...

27% of the civilian deaths in Iraq are attributed to Coalition forces. Get your facts straight.

You know dude, just because there are isolated incidents of soldiers doing terrible things doesn't mean our entire mission is misled. These are soldiers not politicians, and our politicians are the one's who make the decisions to go into countries. What random soldiers do there shouldn't be a reflection of our entire country.

By the way, the only body I see in that video has a gun laying to the right of it, and you can't even tell what they are shooting at. There's no way the people in the cars were being shot at, because they would be dead. No rounds hit the car or the ground around it. The marines also comment about sniper rounds hitting their location.

Originally Posted by Rainman

Many psychologists say that aggression is most commonly linked to fear. Do many of you act so immature and childlike because you might be....afraid of being wrong? I guess all of the unnecessary childish sarcastic remarks are a result of letting kids partake in what once were "intelligent" discussions. So sad that so few have the maturity to have a friendly debate. it is not impossible to make your point without insulting other people.

Satire is a valid method for illustrating the logical flaws in a point, especially after the person using it was insulted by the other person in another thread. It's also known as taking a concept "to the Nth degree". That is a method for putting an idea under a microscope and seeing where it would logically lead, which serves as a measure of the truth of the concept. Friendly satire is a legitimate form of trash talk to use with somebody who started the trash talking. But flat out beligerant insults shouldn't be used.

Yea 9/11 was the most elaborate government conspiracy ever devised LMFAO. The American governement can't even organise the military effort in iraq yet you think they're able to carry out such a complicated plan.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641

LoL

Originally Posted by jedimind

Yea 9/11 was the most elaborate government conspiracy ever devised LMFAO. The American governement can't even organise the military effort in iraq yet you think they're able to carry out such a complicated plan.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641

LoL

Nice!!! Kudos for the South Park. The best scene is when George W. is explaining how they got away with it. So funny. Either that or when Cartman tries to explain 9/11. He blame Kyle, and actually has proof!!! Probably more proof than conspiracy theories have in real life.

Originally Posted by jedimind

Yea 9/11 was the most elaborate government conspiracy ever devised LMFAO. The American governement can't even organise the military effort in iraq yet you think they're able to carry out such a complicated plan.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/3641

LoL

This is a simple logical fallacy...

...Not to mention completely proven wrong by the very fact that Operation Northwoods was not brought to public attention until 1999. Thus, Operation Northwoods proves that 1) the Pentagon does indeed have the technological and monetary capability to plan in detail a staged terrorist attack against the U.S. public. and 2) that this sort of activity can be kept secret for a very long time.

Now for those who think they can debunk the evidence of controlled demolition of the WTC, you must first engage that evidence, and not simply pretend it doesnt exist. Flat denials are not arguments. So..heres just a tiny fraction of the evidence, as presented by PhD professors with relevant experience:

Dr. Crocket Grabbe, winner of the National Science Foundation's Postdoctoral Fellowship, and teacher of graduate courses in Plasma Physics and Mathematical Physics recently wrote this:
Direct Evidence for Explosions: Flying Projectiles and
Widespread Impact Damage
http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...nsEvidence.pdf

Terry Morrone. Professor Emeritus of Physics, Adelphi University
Proof That The Thermal And Gravitational Energy
Available Were Insufficient to Melt Steel in the Twin Towers and WTC7
http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...ngWTCsteel.pdf

And again, heres the proof that there was in fact tons of molten iron and a govt offical's attempt to deny it:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03712325092501


___________________________________

Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth
http://www.ae911truth.org/

There are two things I still haven't had explained to me.

1.) If speculating lay people in this thread can understand demolition so well that they know the WTC towers fell because of base explosions, then why are demolition experts and engineers all over the world not coming together by the millions and screaming that? Somebody here responded to that question by telling me that there are some engineers and demolition experts saying it. That doesn't answer my question. I am asking why they are not doing it by the millions. Why is there not a huge outcry by the construction/demolition masses about this? Why isn't there chatter at the dinner tables and bar circles of every construction expert and demolition expert in the world? A lot of the conspiracy theories about 9/11 keep making me ask questions like that. Here is another example...

2.) Why are Pentagon workers not screaming their heads off by the thousands that NO AIRPLANE hit the Pentagon when they were at work? If the biggest news story of all time involved my place of work and I didn't recall a big ass passenger airplane hitting the building where I was working, I would be on every talk show in the world talking about it. Thousands of my co-workers would be with me. Where are those people? If you believe in the conspiracy but think an airplane did hit the Pentagon, who the Hell was flying it? And what about the other three airplanes? Were at least four people willing to kill themselves so Bush and Cheney could get good oil company pay offs?

If somebody could clear up those two issues, I will be significantly closer to seeing things from the conspiracy theory point of view.