Thread: False Witchhunt on the Sacred Mushroom

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Stick around.

Don't get it.

the thing that bothers me most is that the government kind of forgets about other things. If they just block out one substance (mushrooms) users can find alternate natural ways to have experiences (hawaiian baby woodrose, morning glory, yopo, even though they are all different substances, they can all intoxicate people equally as much as mushrooms can)


SKA, i know what you mean by the benzo's. Honestly, i feel stupider, and less motivated under the influence of them, than weed.

It pisses me off so much that drugs like benzo's (basically for use with emotional problems) are considered ok, but things like marijuana (used for recreational, and also somtimes emotional problems) are considered horrible.

Another thing that pisses me off is you can overdose on benzo's, opiates, anestethics (spelling?) and even tylenol, but you cant overdose on weed, but thats not a good enough reason to at least decriminalize it.

anyways i gotta stop before i explode with anger.

My understanding of weed is that if it were readily available at your nearest supermarket and convenience station, people would never stop smoking it.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

My understanding of weed is that if it were readily available at your nearest supermarket and convenience station, people would never stop smoking it.

??

The Netherlands have Coffeeshops, and anyone over 18 can smoke as much as they want. (in theory the max is 5 grams per day per person. No-one checks). Still, there aren't that many non-stop smokers in the Netherlands. By far most marijuana smokers AREN'T stoned all day.

So.

Your understanding, appears wrong.

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

Don't get it.

I said to stick around because you said this...

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

So has weed, psychedelics, coke, smack etc...until approximately this century.

Potheads don't have jobs? I don't know one who doesn't have a job, and they all pay their taxes. Loss of ambition? The only one I know who is lazy was just as lazy before he ever took his first toke. I know plenty of sober peeps who are the laziest slackers on the face of the earth. You sure you guys weren't talking about smackheads?

I was saying that over time you will run into lots of people who are lazy as Hell because they are stoned all the time. I have seen it what it does to other people with my own eyes, and I know how lazy it makes me. When I am in a pot phase, I am too lazy to do jack. My responsibilities get put on the backburner, and I lose ambition to do even fun things I would otherwise be doing. I can physically feel my state of lessened energy. I have been too lazy to get up and turn lights out and even too lazy to change the channel. Think about that. Stoned and too lazy to change the channel, when the damn remote control is in my hand. It's totally real. But I still think it should be legal, and I know that it has an opposite effect on some people. I know people who get more into their work than otherwise because they are stoned. It's a person by person situtation, but I know that some people are made lazier by it, and I know with complete certainty that it makes me a whole lot lazier.

Universal Mind, i noticed that those people that become lazy because they are stoned all the time are usually because they are lazy when not stoned. The typical stoner people are all around, but there are hard working people everywhere that get high but still do their work.

There are a lotta kids in my school who smoke weed every once in a while and go places. One stoner (dealer) went to tulane.

im just saying, the problem with laziness/lack of motivation is usually due to how the person usually acts.

edit, didnt read the last sentence, guess you already know what i mean

Originally Posted by shaftmonkey

Universal Mind, i noticed that those people that become lazy because they are stoned all the time are usually because they are lazy when not stoned. The typical stoner people are all around, but there are hard working people everywhere that get high but still do their work.

There are a lotta kids in my school who smoke weed every once in a while and go places. One stoner (dealer) went to tulane.

im just saying, the problem with laziness/lack of motivation is usually due to how the person usually acts.

edit, didnt read the last sentence, guess you already know what i mean

I agree that stoners who are lazy are also lazy when they are not stoners. However, I know that pot makes most of those people even lazier than otherwise. Pot is usually a lazy drug for lazy people. If I had been an all day every day smoker like a lot of people I know, I would have never done anything. And like I said, pot helps some people get even more into their work than they would otherwise. I am definitely not one of those people, and most of the stoners I have known in my life are not like that. They might have enough ambition to finish college or even graduate school, but they lack major career ambition. They are not going to build a fortune 500 company from the ground up if they are smoking pot every day.

Pot never makes me lazy unless I smoke mythical amounts of it. which for that reason I never do. Speak for yourself about the lazyness-pot thing, because I never got lazy from weed. Relaxed? yes. Calm? yes, but never lazy.

Originally Posted by SKA

Pot never makes me lazy unless I smoke mythical amounts of it. which for that reason I never do. Speak for yourself about the lazyness-pot thing, because I never got lazy from weed. Relaxed? yes. Calm? yes, but never lazy.

yeah doesnt make me lazy either. Hell if i was lazy after smoking how the hell would i make and eat so much damn food

In increases motivation and focus for me, not to mention it loosens creative thought. I've found it easier to learn things while buzzed. I can say that for psychedelics in general but not other drugs so much.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I agree that stoners who are lazy are also lazy when they are not stoners. However, I know that pot makes most of those people even lazier than otherwise. Pot is usually a lazy drug for lazy people. If I had been an all day every day smoker like a lot of people I know, I would have never done anything. And like I said, pot helps some people get even more into their work than they would otherwise. I am definitely not one of those people, and most of the stoners I have known in my life are not like that. They might have enough ambition to finish college or even graduate school, but they lack major career ambition. They are not going to build a fortune 500 company from the ground up if they are smoking pot every day.

Universal mind, just because Your friends are lazy stoners, doesn't mean you can just conclude weed is a lazy drug for lazy people. What about people on medical marijuana programs? They smoke lots every day, and in the documentaries I saw most, if their heath allowed it, had jobs and such.

What idiot would even start smoking ever day 'for fun'? It would totally take away it's originality, and thus would hardly be as fun.

I think you're "evidence" that weed makes people lazy is just based on false, confounding 'figures' (about your friends). Everyone that gets to the point of smoking weed every day had something fucked up, escapistic behaviour or some other problems like that.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Universal mind, just because Your friends are lazy stoners, doesn't mean you can just conclude weed is a lazy drug for lazy people. What about people on medical marijuana programs? They smoke lots every day, and in the documentaries I saw most, if their heath allowed it, had jobs and such.

What idiot would even start smoking ever day 'for fun'? It would totally take away it's originality, and thus would hardly be as fun.

I think you're "evidence" that weed makes people lazy is just based on false, confounding 'figures' (about your friends). Everyone that gets to the point of smoking weed every day had something fucked up, escapistic behaviour or some other problems like that.

I have known tons of pot smokers in my life, many of whom were not close friends, and I know that it is very common for pot smokers to end up smoking pot every day and that it makes most people lazy. It's common knowledge too. No matter how much you try to scientifically explain why some people become every day smokers, it is still a fact that they do.

Well Universal Mind, I guess those stoners you know are just the kind of people that don't have anything else to do with their lives. No passions, no hobbies, no interrests. I smoke a Joint and then I'll play piano or drum for hours, or draw/paint/build for hours. For some people it's really the only way to mental enrichment so they smoke it dayly by lack of a better idea of what to do with their time.

My sister and her boyfriend have both graduated art college and he is currently a very populair, successfull, productive painter. My sister can get started as an architect right away. They both smoke rediculous amounts of weed dayly. They're stoners allright, but obviously shouldn't be piled together with the "I don't know what else to do with my time"-stoners. That would be unrightious wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have known tons of pot smokers in my life, many of whom were not close friends, and I know that it is very common for pot smokers to end up smoking pot every day and that it makes most people lazy. It's common knowledge too. No matter how much you try to scientifically explain why some people become every day smokers, it is still a fact that they do.

Yeah it also used to be common knowledge that it makes you go insane and kill your brother.

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

Yeah it also used to be common knowledge that it makes you go insane and kill your brother.

I've been an on again off again pot-head for eons and have known lots and lots and lots of other pot-heads, and I've never seen pot make anybody kill his brother. But I have seen it turn people into big time lazy asses. I bet you have too. If not, then stick around. Did you know that some common knowledge is actually correct? My point that it is common knowledge was just something worth mentioning. You treated it like it was the basis for my entire argument. Did you read the rest of my post? The idea that pot doesn't make anybody lazy is profoundly absurd. Wake up. I guess caffeine doesn't make anybody energetic either. Where do I get these crazy ideas? It's fun to pretend. :bravo:

Originally Posted by SKA

Well Universal Mind, I guess those stoners you know are just the kind of people that don't have anything else to do with their lives. No passions, no hobbies, no interrests. I smoke a Joint and then I'll play piano or drum for hours, or draw/paint/build for hours. For some people it's really the only way to mental enrichment so they smoke it dayly by lack of a better idea of what to do with their time.


My sister and her boyfriend have both graduated art college and he is currently a very populair, successfull, productive painter. My sister can get started as an architect right away. They both smoke rediculous amounts of weed dayly. They're stoners allright, but obviously shouldn't be piled together with the "I don't know what else to do with my time"-stoners. That would be unrightious wouldn't it?

Those lazy stoners had hobbies and even kept them, but they didn't progress. The laziness I am talking about is harder to notice in the teens and early twenties. It's on into adulthood that the effect really starts to become obvious. I don't think the laziness can be completely explained in psychological terms. I think pot changes a person's physiology and makes him/her more lethargic. Do you honestly not feel lazier when you are stoned? Some people don't, but most people do. An old friend of mine is a professional photographer, and he is definitely an example of somebody who gets more accomplished than otherwise because of his pot habit. It works like a stimulant with him. But in my experience, most people do not respond that way. Pot makes it more difficult to get enthusiastic and get moving in most cases. Like I said, it sometimes makes me too lazy to change the channel, when I am holding the damn remote control. That never happens when I am sober. Are you surprised at all to learn that lots of people can relate to that? I am talking about a common effect the drug has. I would be shocked to find out I am the first person you have ever known of to talk about that effect.

Universal Mind, I'm not really arguing because you talk from experience of people you saw around you, and I saw the same thing myself here and there. But there is one case that makes me wonder: The Rastafarian / reggae movement is largely centered around pot. The reggae musicians are some of the worlds heaviest pot smokers, and still they managed to create all this absolutely amazing music, and there are so many fantastic reggae artists. So how can you explain this if pot makes you lazy?

Originally Posted by dodobird

Universal Mind, I'm not really arguing because you talk from experience of people you saw around you, and I saw the same thing myself here and there. But there is one case that makes me wonder: The Rastafarian / reggae movement is largely centered around pot. The reggae musicians are some of the worlds heaviest pot smokers, and still they managed to create all this absolutely amazing music, and there are so many fantastic reggae artists. So how can you explain this if pot makes you lazy?

Pot is like a stimulant to some people. The pool of people who are motivated by pot are usually artists, like my photographer friend and SKA's artist sister and her artist boyfriend. I think pot makes people lazier with nonartistic things than it does with artistic things. I like to draw and write poems when I am stoned, though not in that extra lazy zone where I can't turn out the light or change the channel, but donkeys will be flying before I ever get stoned and clean up the house or deal with my bills. But I love to draw and write poetry any way, so I'll do that sometimes while high, though being high makes my couch's gravity much stronger than otherwise. There aren't too many successful corporate excutive stoners or stoned trial lawyers. The people who are the best at that stuff don't work too much room for pot into their lives.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Pot is like a stimulant to some people. The pool of people who are motivated by pot are usually artists, like my photographer friend and SKA's artist sister and her artist boyfriend. I think pot makes people lazier with nonartistic things than it does with artistic things. I like to draw and write poems when I am stoned, though not in that extra lazy zone where I can't turn out the light or change the channel, but donkeys will be flying before I ever get stoned and clean up the house or deal with my bills. But I love to draw and write poetry any way, so I'll do that sometimes while high, though being high makes my couch's gravity much stronger than otherwise. There aren't too many successful corporate excutive stoners or stoned trial lawyers. The people who are the best at that stuff don't work too much room for pot into their lives.

Yes, this makes sense. I think the successful corporate executives and trial lawyers, if they started smoking pot, they will save some money and retire, or start working part time... I think it can let you step out of the manic workaholic chase for money and success.

Originally Posted by dodobird

Yes, this makes sense. I think the successful corporate executives and trial lawyers, if they started smoking pot, they will save some money and retire, or start working part time... I think it can let you step out of the manic workaholic chase for money and success.

Also, being stoned while working one of those jobs would be an absolute nightmare, but being stoned while working on art is fun.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have known tons of pot smokers in my life, many of whom were not close friends, and I know that it is very common for pot smokers to end up smoking pot every day and that it makes most people lazy. It's common knowledge too. No matter how much you try to scientifically explain why some people become every day smokers, it is still a fact that they do.

Maybe you live in one of those poor rural areas, and that drives people to getting stoned every day? All the people I know that smoke weed, do not do it every day.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Maybe you live in one of those poor rural areas, and that drives people to getting stoned every day? All the people I know that smoke weed, do not do it every day.

I live in an urban area, and many people that I know who smoke pot, do it everyday.

Ok other than art and music...I like to get buzzed and go for long walks or ride my bike. Seriously...years ago I used to work at a very busy boarding/daycare kennel. Working there was both physically stressful and mentally challenging. I did better buzzed.

People who sit and smoke and play video games and watch TV and eat are simply lazy asses who use smoking as an excuse for their lethargy. One of the things that contributes most to lethargy in my opinion is poor nutrition. Ever notice that the people who are always fatigued or lazy or unmotivated eat processed junk food and drink soda or other sweetened drinks? Or they are just spoiled brats and their parents give them everything otherwise how could they afford to not work. People who suffer the effects of poor nutrition tend to abuse drugs, TV, gorge on carbs or all of the above.

Originally Posted by dodobird

I live in an urban area, and many people that I know who smoke pot, do it everyday.

Maybe this just shows that the Dutch policy on weed results in less 24/7-stoners and other dark sides of weed?

I know for a fact, that most of the people that smoke weed, don't do it everyday. I really really really doubt it is different in any other country however, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Maybe you live in one of those poor rural areas, and that drives people to getting stoned every day? All the people I know that smoke weed, do not do it every day.

No, I live in an upper middle class suburban area, the same one I lived in in high school and part of college. I lived in several areas after that, one of them being downtown Jackson. I have had stoner friends representing all economic classes. Do you honestly deny that pot makes anybody feel more lethargic? This seems really bizarre to me. It's like saying caffeine doesn't make anybody more perky.