Thread: Why Are Americans So Angry?

Originally Posted by wendylove

I will admit the strength of Al Qaefa is exaggerated, however the strength of fundamentalist islam is getting stronger. See what is a death sentence to a person who thinks dying a martha will get you in heaven. Plus saying places like Iraq is getting better and war is nearly won is wrong. Vietnam comes to mind. Seriously speaking why isn't america pulling out its troops from Iraq? The anwser is because it is still messed up. Seriously america is not going to win the Iraq war and then the terriorist will have two places to hide, Iraq and pakistein. Well, assuming the sunni's win.

If we withdraw now, the fanatics there will see it as a victory against the West, and they will become even stronger. This will make them believe that suicide bombing and insurgency are great things in the fight against the West. That cannot happen. It will only reinforce their insane behavior. They will see us as weak and defeatable. It will enpower them.

We we took on fanatical Islam, we started a long war. We have to follow it through, or they will continue.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Al Qaeda has grown in popularity and got stronger, because america invaded Iraq. Now Iraq is in civil war and Al Qaeda has got more support in the middle east then america. The point is this taking over countries is different then actually chaning countries so their not extremeist. See if america takes over another country then it will just become another Iraq, does the normal american want another Iraq?

That is another example of judging the future of Iraq by its transition period. It is fallacious to do that. Overthrowing two Islamofascist governments has a lot to do with why we have not been attacked on our soil since 9/11. That caused a lot of hesitation. Even if Al Qaeda wins over the entire Middle East, the Islamofascists do not want us taking over any more countries. You can look at the insurgency to see their reaction to that sort of thing. Taking over another country or two could very well be exactly what will happen if we get attacked here again. They know that.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

If we withdraw now, the fanatics there will see it as a victory against the West, and they will become even stronger. This will make them believe that suicide bombing and insurgency are great things in the fight against the West. That cannot happen. It will only reinforce their insane behavior. They will see us as weak and defeatable. It will enpower them.

We we took on fanatical Islam, we started a long war. We have to follow it through, or they will continue.

That is a very important point, and I think it is irrefutable.

Overthrowing two Islamofascist governments has a lot to do with why we have not been attacked on our soil since 9/11.

9/11
9/11
9/11

Seriously, since 9/11 did you lose the abillty to think. I hope your not applying that Iraq has something to do with 9/11. As it hasen't http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3812351.stm
So what has Iraq got to do with stopping terrorism, nothing!

That is another example of judging the future of Iraq by its transition period. It is fallacious to do that.

So what else am I to judge it on, god, fairies, magick. Or let me think evidence, their no evidence Iraq is getting better. History Vietnam comes to mind. Palistein, woops. Let me think Afganstan.
I get what you mean if I abandon evidence, then it looks like Iraq will be okay.

Taking over another country or two could very well be exactly what will happen if we get attacked here again.

Again your not techniquely winning, so blowing up a few more building would proberly change nothing. Come on you can't take on Iran and Pakinstein won't let your america invade it country easily.
Another war means more dead soliders, does america want more dead soliders?

If we withdraw now, the fanatics there will see it as a victory against the West, and they will become even stronger.

How can you let them win when your not winning in the first place?

This will make them believe that suicide bombing and insurgency are great things in the fight against the West.

Again Vietnam used similar tactics, and who won that war?

When we took on fanatical Islam, we started a long war. We have to follow it through, or they will continue.

Seriously following through seems to imply you have a plan of action. The only plan Bush has shown is increased troops, however this has just made the violence worse. Now the insurgent are getting helped by Iran(for example they now have a steady supply of rockets, even anti aircraft rockets), so I guess fighting the war would only leave more dead soliders.

That is a very important point, and I think it is irrefutable.

Sometimes the best thing to do is just give up, Iraq is not getting safer and the insurgent are getting stronger and more equiped.

The Iraq war can be summed up as this How many more dead troops are united states willing to have?
I wonder what the death toll is now.

We are kicking ASS in Iraq. Over 500,000 insurgents or Iraqi troops have been killed, compared to our 3,600. That is the definition of "winning". Not to mention the fact that we sacked their capital in a few months.

Listen to you!! Its pathetic!!! "Just give up"?

Iraq is not another vietnam. We are fighting and offensive war in Iraq. We were fighting a defensive war in Vietnam. 30,000 US troops died in the first 5 years of real fighting in Vietnam. 3,600 dead in about 5 years in Iraq. Waves of troops attacked US bases in Vietnam. Insurgents spray AKs, hide, then plant bombs in Iraq. The only common ground is that we are killing bad people. Thats all.

The reason the world ignored Hitler when he was rising was because nobody wanted anyone else to die. Look what happened. I am not saying the two situations are the same thing, but ignoring a problem is no solution to a problem.

Originally Posted by wendylove

9/11
9/11
9/11

Seriously, since 9/11 did you lose the abillty to think. I hope your not applying that Iraq has something to do with 9/11. As it hasen't http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3812351.stm
So what has Iraq got to do with stopping terrorism, nothing!


So what else am I to judge it on, god, fairies, magick. Or let me think evidence, their no evidence Iraq is getting better. History Vietnam comes to mind. Palistein, woops. Let me think Afganstan.
I get what you mean if I abandon evidence, then it looks like Iraq will be okay.

Again your not techniquely winning, so blowing up a few more building would proberly change nothing. Come on you can't take on Iran and Pakinstein won't let your america invade it country easily.
Another war means more dead soliders, does america want more dead soliders?

How can you let them win when your not winning in the first place?

Again Vietnam used similar tactics, and who won that war?

Seriously following through seems to imply you have a plan of action. The only plan Bush has shown is increased troops, however this has just made the violence worse. Now the insurgent are getting helped by Iran(for example they now have a steady supply of rockets, even anti aircraft rockets), so I guess fighting the war would only leave more dead soliders.

Sometimes the best thing to do is just give up, Iraq is not getting safer and the insurgent are getting stronger and more equiped.

The Iraq war can be summed up as this How many more dead troops are united states willing to have?
I wonder what the death toll is now.

The American death toll is less than 4,000. It was 55,000 in Vietnam, and we left too early. The American death toll in World War II was in the multiple hundreds of thousands. We will do what we have to do. And don't think for a second we can't take Iran and Pakistan (We don't have a beef with Pakistan any way.). Are you joking? We have the power to turn the entire Middle East into a sheet of glass within an hour. We don't want to do that (But Al Qaeda would do that to us without hesitating if they could.), but don't say we can't take little piss ant countries in the Middle East. We do need to possibly take down the government of Iran so they will stop supplying the insurgents. We are really constructively at war with Iran right now too. Our ultimate goal right now is to help Iraq grow as a democracy. That success will not be revealed during the transition phase. It will take a long time. But... The seed of democracy has been planted. A democratic government is in place, and the population has the right to vote and DOES SO in higher percentages that WE do. What does that tell you? It tells you that the will for freedom is very much alive in Iraq along with a democratic government. I hope you are hoping the best for that situation. Are you?

What does Iraq have to do with terrorism? You say nothing? Well, let me inform you of the truth. First of all, saying Iraq has something to do with terrorism is not to say that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. No, the Hussein regime was not involved in the 9/11 attacks as far as we know. But, the Hussein regime was an international terrorist government that supported Hamas and Hezballah and provided financial incentives to Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel, shot missiles at Israel and Kuwait without provocation, took over Kuwait without any justification, used WMD's in a terrorist attack on the Kurds, and used terror to control their own masses. They were also having meetings with Al Qaeda representatives and harboring Al Qaeda members. Plus, our 1991 ceasefire with them required that they had to follow certain provisions regarding terrorism and their WMD's, which they did in fact have. They violated that ceasefire for 12 years. After 9/11, the U.S. made policy changes. We formed the Bush Doctrine, which was a policy regarding all international terrorist groups, not just the terrorist group that inspired it. (Make sure you caught that very important point which the leftist fanatics always overlook.) Under it, the Taliban of Afghanistan was the first government we went after. Due to everything I said about the Hussein regime, they were second. In addition to that, democracy in the heart of the Middle East is a great weapon against terrorism in the long run. So is making Islamofascist terrorists come out of the Middle Eastern woodwork so we can kill them like flies. Also, five ally governments and the United Nations, in addition to our own intelligence, reported that the regime currently had stockpiles of WMD's before the war started. Consider that entire picture, and you will see what Iraq has to do with terrorism and the justification for the lifting of the ceasefire and overthrowing the Hussein regime.

You need to consider all of it at the same time. It's about a big picture, not just any one thing.

I sometimes think people have forgotten then entire year of 2003 and the lead-up to the war.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I sometimes think people have forgotten then entire year of 2003 and the lead-up to the war.

Maybe the Truth was written over the LIES from 2003, in their minds?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Maybe the Truth was written over the LIES from 2003, in their minds?

Well, I guess all those UN nations lied about Saddam as well.

About Lies, about lead-up to the war?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

Those lies are are Paradigms of lies.

Watch it.

let me state first that i am an american.

during the past 7 and a half years of bush having his head in a place near his bush, i have felt ashamed, i have hated the image we project to the world because of him.

i stand by my country, i think we have made many important contributions to the welfare of all people, but i've noticed that we've made none of these contributions since bush got into office.

Bush is fucking america in the butt with a 22inch vibrator and he doesn't even know it. that's why america is angry.

as an american i can say i'm sorry we seem to suck so much right now. the image america is projecting isn't america, it is bush. entirely bush.

personally i think if i met bush in a bar without knowing he was president he'd be a cool guy to have a beer with. but some people [myself included] aren't suited for positions of power, some because of greed, others stupidity, it could be any number of reasons. myself, i'm too indecisive.

as for the war, were in over our heads. yes america, over our heads. if america had stayed out of the middle east from the beginning, we wouldn't have seen the tragedy of 9/11. since 79 we've been fucking with these people because they have a very different culture than ours. that is simply the way it is. i know some people from the middle east and just from spending time with them i realized that the war was pointless. they have a very different outlook on life, and it won't be changed. this war is illegal in the first place. we plainly have no right to be there. as stated in the video [thank you for posting by the way].

i hope the rest of the world can see through the lies of the bush admin. this is not america. bush has done the same as other presidents have and pushed america away from our doctrine and into their own. we need to go back to the way of our founding fathers and i urge other americans to fight for this.

thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by lysergic

i stand by my country, i think we have made many important contributions to the welfare of all people, but i've noticed that we've made none of these contributions since bush got into office.

We have continued to lead the world in foreign aid, and we have liberated two horribly oppressed countries that were ruled by international terrorist governments. Stick around, and you will eventually see how much better those countries become. Bush is hated by the world now, but he will be a hero in the history books. People are going to laugh about how hated he was because it will seem ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

We have continued to lead the world in foreign aid, and we have liberated two horribly oppressed countries that were ruled by international terrorist governments. Stick around, and you will eventually see how much better those countries become. Bush is hated by the world now, but he will be a hero in the history books. People are going to laugh about how hated he was because it will seem ridiculous.

Sadly, I can understand where you are coming from with this. Hell, I even hope you are right. But the question is, do the ends always justify the means? I mean, Bush isn't hated for no reason. He is a jackass who thinks the president should be able to do whatever he/she wants with no checks, and his cronies in the administration are the biggest bunch of slimy, controlling, lying assholes I've ever seen in the White House (Cheney: well, I'm actually in the legislative branch (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), and, well, yeah when I want to be Im in the executive, but actually part of neither, so yeah, I can do whatever I want, Gonzales: Next question. Next question. Next question. No, I'm actually refusing to answer any questions, except for my [outright lies]). I can see how you might be able to support this administration if you think the ends justify the means, however, I happen to not be of that opinion. I'm not playing party lines either, I know lying goes on on both sides. Don't you think humans should have a little more respect for other humans? Because I get the strong feeling that if Cheney or Bush could push a button, kill me and you with no consequences, and make $10, they would do it. I don't think anyone like that, no matter what they did, should be remembered fondly.

/end rant

Originally Posted by lysergic

this war is illegal in the first place. we plainly have no right to be there.

This is absolutely false. Just because the UN didnt have the balls to enforce their own protocols doesn't mean the war is illegal.

Saddam refused entry to UN inspectors on several occasions. ONE SINGLE INCEDENT of this happening is enough for dissarmament and removal from power. Although this doesn't necessarily mean we had to invade, it makes it perfectly legal.

Since we invaded Iraq, we have found thousands of gallons of liquid labeled "Pesticide", which were hidden in ammo dumps accompanied by only guns, missiles, rockets, etc., in the middle of the desert. "Pesticide" had no business being in those bunkers.

Saddam Hussein brought this upon his own country.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Saddam refused entry to UN inspectors on several occasions. ONE SINGLE INCEDENT of this happening is enough for dissarmament and removal from power. Although this doesn't necessarily mean we had to invade, it makes it perfectly legal.

That's all, folks. We were absolutely justified, not to mention all the other factors. Thats all that really matters, and I'm very upset that once again, the UN members left it up to us so they can be forever blameless. What a puppet organization. If the other nations followed the rules they set up, we would all be in Iraq together and things would be much better. The entire free world's effort in Iraq would be incredible.

I honestly think the other nations do this to take America down a peg or two.