Thread: George Bush

I'm from New Zealand, we may be far away but I keep well informed on world happenings. There is one thing that has been bugging me for too long, after Iraq, after Sep 11, after everything, why did you vote George Bush AGAIN?

-By you I mean America in general, I realise of course, this does not apply to everyone. Please know that I respect everyone's personal opinion but he has stirred up so much anger in me with his actions and attitude that I find it extremely hard to understand how those that voted for him cannot see him for what he truly is.

Do you know who George Bush really is? To me he sounds like a guy who had to balls to remove Saddam from power when the UN wouldn't follow through. I know it hurts some of you inside when I say this, but the invasion of Iraq was perfectly legal. It may not have been necessary, but a bad seed in the Middle East is not good, especially in the days of large terrorist attacks.

So what if Saddam didn't have nukes? So what if he didn't have anything to do with 9/11? He still committed war crimes and violated the sanctions placed on him for 12 years. I still say we should have removed Saddam from power back in '91 for invading Kuwait.

For the record, most Americans are not Bush fans. I know I'm not.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Do you know who George Bush really is? To me he sounds like a guy who had to balls to remove Saddam from power when the UN wouldn't follow through. I know it hurts some of you inside when I say this, but the invasion of Iraq was perfectly legal. It may not have been necessary, but a bad seed in the Middle East is not good, especially in the days of large terrorist attacks.

So what if Saddam didn't have nukes? So what if he didn't have anything to do with 9/11? He still committed war crimes and violated the sanctions placed on him for 12 years. I still say we should have removed Saddam from power back in '91 for invading Kuwait.

Lets say we buy into the lies your government used to make people sheepish enough to allow a pointless war, even then, everyone can see Bush is a retarded, undiplomatic, over-spending bad leader.

You're right. He is a retarded, undiplomatic, bad spender. It doesn't change the fact that the Iraq invasion was not an unlawful engagement.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

You're right. He is a retarded, undiplomatic, bad spender. It doesn't change the fact that the Iraq invasion was not an unlawful engagement.

There were no weapons though... He lied (or was just really badly informed, and didn't double check, which is still bad).

Also, he spied on Americans. You can NOT do that! That was completely illegal, and who knows what else he is doing?

Don't act for a second like George W. was the first president to tap phone calls. Bill Clinton lied under oath, and he still got to keep his powers.

He was not "ill informed". Saddam was dodging inspections, and he had a history of using WMD's on his own people. If you smelled like weed and had red eyes, and you refused to empty your pockets to your parents, what would they think? What would they know? That is not bad information.

Originally Posted by Harrycombs

There were no weapons though... He lied (or was just really badly informed, and didn't double check, which is still bad).

Also, he spied on Americans. You can NOT do that! That was completely illegal, and who knows what else he is doing?

That intelligence came from five other governments plus our own and the United Nations. Not acting on it would have been irresponsible. The fact that those WMD's have not been found is not proof that they never existed. The Hussein regime did use WMD's in a terrorist attack, they had a history of international terrorism that went way beyond that, they were our bitter enemy, and they had violated our ceasfire for 12 years on several terrorism grounds. They were a big problem, and they had to go. The mess in Iraq right now is a transition phase, and if the countries who are so pissed off about the mess would help us out, it would not be such a mess. The entire world should come together to take on Islamofascist suicide bomber governments and governments engaged in genocide. If the entire world would come together and stamp that stuff out, we could get rid of it very soon and there would never be a need for another war.

The spying was on international terrorists, not every day Joe American citizens. This is a war.

But yeah, Bush is not a very good speaker.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

You're right. He is a retarded, undiplomatic, bad spender. It doesn't change the fact that the Iraq invasion was not an unlawful engagement.

Weather the Iraq-War-Failure was a failure your government had the right to create isn't the topic here. The topic at hand, is the re-election of a mentally degenerated monkey that can't even properly pronounce the words his spindoctors write for him. : )

I suppose pronunciation affects the ability of a human to understand right from wrong? Throwing cheap insults at him doesn't change his ability to be an effective president.

But, he is a jackass. No Child Left Behind was retarded.

And, don't call Iraq a failure. In terms of warfare, it has been the most impressive victory in history, other than Germany taking over your country.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Do you know who George Bush really is? To me he sounds like a guy who had to balls to remove Saddam from power when the UN wouldn't follow through. I know it hurts some of you inside when I say this, but the invasion of Iraq was perfectly legal. It may not have been necessary, but a bad seed in the Middle East is not good, especially in the days of large terrorist attacks.

I don't know a lot about American politics, nor do I care in particular, but I have to point out that whatever Bush's motivation for a war in Iraq was, it was not 'for the good of the Iraqi people'.

Just consider all of the dictators in Africa. What has he done about them..? North Korea is a pathetic country, yet still one which threatens peace. What has he done about that..?

Truth is, Iraq's now one hell of a more screwed up than it ever was, thanks to Bush. If there's one thing you can learn from history, it's that people obviously don't learn from history. -_-

I will speak only once on this: George Bush is not an idiot, and neither are the people who elected him. It takes a great deal of political and diplomatic skill to become president, regardless of any family history or campaign tactics. Not agreeing with somebody, however strongly, is not a reason to call them an imbecile.

Furthermore, I wonder if Bush could have taken any action after 9/11 that would have pleased the majority? I tend to believe Bush was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

I agree, everything Bush does is for the good of himself or for more money or power. He's a selfish bastard and anyone who thinks he's doing good for America is deluded and will find out the hard way.

Originally Posted by tayje005

I agree, everything Bush does is for the good of himself or for more money or power. He's a selfish bastard and anyone who thinks he's doing good for America is deluded and will find out the hard way.

It must be very convenient to make such an insulting assertion without using the slightest bit of substance to back it up and without countering a single argument that has been made in this thread. Since that is the type of conversation you want to have, you put underwear on your head and have romantic affairs with tomatoes.

"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson

The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question it's methods or throw light upon it's crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed. Abraham Lincoln

Originally Posted by On May 21st, the insider source described how a military attack on Iran was a strategic impossibility:

Now, thanks to the criminal stupidity of George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, the ground forces, viz the Army and the Marines, are ruined. The casualty rates are terrible, and unreported, and equipment such as trucks, soft-skinned vehicles, tanks and other support vehicles, to include military helicopters, are mostly inoperative and under repair because of the known damage done to internal combustion engines by desert sand.

The heavy death tolls, basically minimized by the DoD, and the really appalling injuries suffered by troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan has removed tens of thousands of soldiers from the field…

In short, our defenses have been destroyed and it will take years to replace the missing soldiers and, as important, the destroyed and badly damaged equipment. The allegations of torture and worse being practiced inside the United States are only the tip of a very ugly iceberg lying in the path of the approaching Titanic.

Bush has single-handedly ruined America’s world reputation, destroyed her ground forces, ruined their equipment and brought future decades of shame and disgrace upon us all. Former president Carter was dead-on when he said George W. Bush was the worst president in our entire history.

Unfortunately, the administration does not want to see reality. More recent updates from May 25th indicate that even if the adminstration still seeks a military strike, all the command structure — from the top Pentagon brass right through to the soldiers on the ground — have lost all will to proceed:

The Pentagon experts now feel that Bush has personally ruined the military and exposed us to very critical security problems. None of these realities are recognized by… Bush-Cheney-Rove.

[If allowed to move forward, they] will end up causing huge death tolls among our young soldiers which, like the battered French army in 1918, will cause mutinies, refusals to fight and the killing of officers that are too gung-ho. This, according to the military analysis, is guaranteed to happen if the present policies are not radically altered — but no one has the balls to do anything about it.

There is reputedly such strong pressure coming from Israel, who apparently has a huge 'blackmail' file they threaten to use, that the administration has ratcheted up tensions by placing the bulk of America's naval strike forces into the Persian Gulf. The TBRNews source indicates this is nearly a suicidal move, as there are ample supplies of Russian missiles capable of utterly decimating the fleet:

If an American or an American/Israeli attack were to be launched on Iran, they would retaliate, not with atomic weapons but with Russian-supplied missiles. Anyone taking the trouble to look on the Internet about these new weapons, will know that they cannot be deflected by our electronic missile defenses and all it would take would be for one missile to plow into an aircraft carrier, well within range, and blow a hole in it big enough to run a train through.

The Persian Gulf is not that deep but if a carrier sinks to the bottom of it, the loss of life would be very high, there being ca 6,000 men on board. And we are speaking here of just one enormous ship and not the dozens of other large naval units now on station and also easy targets. A big fleet, confined in the relatively narrow Persian Gulf and easily within the range of Iranian/Russian missiles, could, in theory, be virtually obliterated with terrible consequences.

The point is not to dishonor the united states government, but to share information completely overlooked by mainstream and alternative press but widely known inside knowledge.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

The point is not to dishonor the united states government, but to share information completely overlooked by mainstream and alternative press but widely known inside knowledge.

That article is SUCH an exaggeration. Did Chris Farley play a character who said that stuff on Saturday Night Live?

Now do you have a memory similar to a fish. Or do you remember this......

The lies to get us into war

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

Originally Posted by Swikity

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

He's a bad speaker because he has trouble getting words together along with pausing and studdering, but that doesn't mean he's not smart. He might have some sort of learning disability or just a mere speech problem when it comes to words, but a lot of the smartest people in the world have learning disabilities and speech problems. It does take major intelligence to get elected President of the United States or any other country. Idiots don't graduate from Yale, and lots of geniuses are bad students. Grades are not a direct measure of intelligence. And what kind of grades would you have made at Yale?

Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Benjamin Franklin once said that if you give up your freedom for protection, you will get neither.

Also, you guys should watch "Frontline". They did an episode on this, and that the government is taking in huge amounts of information, and its not that easy to tell who a terrorist is and who isn't, so lots of innocent people are being spied on.

I think he has gone too far with some of his security measures, but I have a certain degree of understanding for it. He has successfully prevented further domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11/01, and that is a big plus.

I will more than admitt that George Bush has streched his powers to the very limit, but the "hindsight" philosophy of anti-Bush people is ridiculus.

I could argue that Bush's streaches of power are a result of lack of support where there should have been support.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I will more than admitt that George Bush has streched his powers to the very limit, but the "hindsight" philosophy of anti-Bush people is ridiculus.

I could argue that Bush's streaches of power are a result of lack of support where there should have been support.

I have several disagreements with Bush's policies, especially his domestic ones, but I see where he is coming from on most of it. For example, I am adamantly and very passionately against the war on drugs, but I still undertand why Bush is in favor of it. I don't spew venomous hate all over the place when I talk about it. I say that the war on drugs is absurd and a giganitic atrocity, but I don't feel the need to call Bush "Hitler" and draw pictures of him with horns on his head and say in total seriousness that he is retarded and should be shot. That is the form the hate Bush phenomenon exists in, and it is almost like a cult situation. I can understand passionate disagreement, but too many people spew hate about Bush mainly because it is fun and makes them feel good. They show flat zero understanding. They show no open-mindedness for the possibility that Bush has even the slightest amount of good intentions. Hating Bush has taken on some kind of social club membership factor, and being part of it is much trendier than skate boarding and disco. It reminds me of riots because it is a situation where people come together and feel powerful by affecting the social climate by acting rotten together. The greater the numbers get, the more powerful the people feel. It is one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. History is going to look back on it with a lot of interest, just like we do now with the Salem witch trials.

UniversalMind, you cant possibly be suggesting that George W Bush is one of the smartest people on Earth.
You cant even use the word smart to descibe him.

I mean, if he has learning problems, should he really be running the most powerful country in the world?

Some of the things he says are beyond speech impediments.

"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers" ?

I mean, thats the kind of thing people say as a joke.

Originally Posted by Swikity

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

Nice job, I've never seen someone copy and paste Bushisms before.

I wish these 10-year-olds who think they know what they're talking about would just shut up.

Furthermore, I've met very few people who oppose Bush for any remotely intelligible reasons. The rest of America rehashes old, worn, and fallacious arguments that they heard from their half-brained friends. See the post quoted above, where a false IQ chosen arbitrarily is given as "proof" that Bush is a bad president. I'm not impressed.