Thread: George Bush

I will speak only once on this: George Bush is not an idiot, and neither are the people who elected him. It takes a great deal of political and diplomatic skill to become president, regardless of any family history or campaign tactics. Not agreeing with somebody, however strongly, is not a reason to call them an imbecile.

Furthermore, I wonder if Bush could have taken any action after 9/11 that would have pleased the majority? I tend to believe Bush was damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

No, but every citizen has to give up a small amount of their freedom to stop more buildings from falling. The government even has the right to send to to that war.

I can't believe people are actually whining about this. Honestly, how much has your life changed since the Patriot Act was created?

Benjamin Franklin once said that if you give up your freedom for protection, you will get neither.

Also, you guys should watch "Frontline". They did an episode on this, and that the government is taking in huge amounts of information, and its not that easy to tell who a terrorist is and who isn't, so lots of innocent people are being spied on.

Originally Posted by Swikity

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

He's a bad speaker because he has trouble getting words together along with pausing and studdering, but that doesn't mean he's not smart. He might have some sort of learning disability or just a mere speech problem when it comes to words, but a lot of the smartest people in the world have learning disabilities and speech problems. It does take major intelligence to get elected President of the United States or any other country. Idiots don't graduate from Yale, and lots of geniuses are bad students. Grades are not a direct measure of intelligence. And what kind of grades would you have made at Yale?

Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Benjamin Franklin once said that if you give up your freedom for protection, you will get neither.

Also, you guys should watch "Frontline". They did an episode on this, and that the government is taking in huge amounts of information, and its not that easy to tell who a terrorist is and who isn't, so lots of innocent people are being spied on.

I think he has gone too far with some of his security measures, but I have a certain degree of understanding for it. He has successfully prevented further domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11/01, and that is a big plus.

I will more than admitt that George Bush has streched his powers to the very limit, but the "hindsight" philosophy of anti-Bush people is ridiculus.

I could argue that Bush's streaches of power are a result of lack of support where there should have been support.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I will more than admitt that George Bush has streched his powers to the very limit, but the "hindsight" philosophy of anti-Bush people is ridiculus.

I could argue that Bush's streaches of power are a result of lack of support where there should have been support.

I have several disagreements with Bush's policies, especially his domestic ones, but I see where he is coming from on most of it. For example, I am adamantly and very passionately against the war on drugs, but I still undertand why Bush is in favor of it. I don't spew venomous hate all over the place when I talk about it. I say that the war on drugs is absurd and a giganitic atrocity, but I don't feel the need to call Bush "Hitler" and draw pictures of him with horns on his head and say in total seriousness that he is retarded and should be shot. That is the form the hate Bush phenomenon exists in, and it is almost like a cult situation. I can understand passionate disagreement, but too many people spew hate about Bush mainly because it is fun and makes them feel good. They show flat zero understanding. They show no open-mindedness for the possibility that Bush has even the slightest amount of good intentions. Hating Bush has taken on some kind of social club membership factor, and being part of it is much trendier than skate boarding and disco. It reminds me of riots because it is a situation where people come together and feel powerful by affecting the social climate by acting rotten together. The greater the numbers get, the more powerful the people feel. It is one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. History is going to look back on it with a lot of interest, just like we do now with the Salem witch trials.

UniversalMind, you cant possibly be suggesting that George W Bush is one of the smartest people on Earth.
You cant even use the word smart to descibe him.

I mean, if he has learning problems, should he really be running the most powerful country in the world?

Some of the things he says are beyond speech impediments.

"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers" ?

I mean, thats the kind of thing people say as a joke.

Originally Posted by Swikity

UniversalMind, you cant possibly be suggesting that George W Bush is one of the smartest people on Earth.
You cant even use the word smart to descibe him.

I mean, if he has learning problems, should he really be running the most powerful country in the world?

Some of the things he says are beyond speech impediments.

"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers" ?

I mean, thats the kind of thing people say as a joke.

No, I don't think he's one of the smartest people on Earth. I was just saying a lot of the smartest people on Earth have learning disabilities and/or speech impediments to illustrate the fact that Bush's poor speech doesn't prove that he's stupid. And I agree that he is not even close to being the best person for the job. I would much rather have somebody who knows how to talk. Comminication is a very important skill for a president to have, and Bush doesn't have it. I think a lot of Bush's opposition results from his embarassing inability to explain what the Hell is going on. Every time I explain why I agree with the war in Iraq, I feel like I am doing what Bush should have already done. Bob Dole doesn't have it either, and he was the lead Republican candidate before Bush. I don't know why the Republicans keep nominating people who suck at communicating.

I don't see why the thing about the terrorist killers is such a big deal. He was using the word "terrorist" as an adjective, which is legitimate, even though his term could be interpreted to mean "the killers of terrorists". The other things you posted were much more screwed up, especially the one about not getting fooled again.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_6B6vwE83U

I just thought of another possibility after watching that video. Maybe he never stopped smoking pot?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have several disagreements with Bush's policies, especially his domestic ones, but I see where he is coming from on most of it. For example, I am adamantly and very passionately against the war on drugs, but I still undertand why Bush is in favor of it. I don't spew venomous hate all over the place when I talk about it. I say that the war on drugs is absurd and a giganitic atrocity, but I don't feel the need to call Bush "Hitler" and draw pictures of him with horns on his head and say in total seriousness that he is retarded and should be shot. That is the form the hate Bush phenomenon exists in, and it is almost like a cult situation. I can understand passionate disagreement, but too many people spew hate about Bush mainly because it is fun and makes them feel good. They show flat zero understanding. They show no open-mindedness for the possibility that Bush has even the slightest amount of good intentions. Hating Bush has taken on some kind of social club membership factor, and being part of it is much trendier than skate boarding and disco. It reminds me of riots because it is a situation where people come together and feel powerful by affecting the social climate by acting rotten together. The greater the numbers get, the more powerful the people feel. It is one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen. History is going to look back on it with a lot of interest, just like we do now with the Salem witch trials.

Exactly. The amount of shit this man gets is ridiculus. And it doesn't even matter what he does. The people who criticize Bush, the Democrats mainly, have the luxury and the inclination to choose (among themselves) different sides on political issues. George Bush is criticized by some group of people no matter what decision he makes. For politicians, it is a political strategy. They know better than anybody that George Bush is not as bad as they make him out to be. For people like Sean Penn, Rosie "Mc'Donald", and the large number of citizens who agree with them, they have been lured into the hysteria like a fish on a hook. They are fanatics, and blow up every minute detail of what Bush does like its the end of the world. They get sick pleasure and self-worth out of it. I also firmly believe these same people don't give a rat's ass about Iraqi civilians or people in Guantanamo bay, or for that matter anything else Bush has been blamed for so far. Finger pointing is more popular with aid, as demonstrated with New Orleans.

It doesn't really matter to me anymore. I feel the Democrats have completely screwed themselves in the last 8 years. They no longer have political basis. ANTI-BUSH IS IT. They have nothing left, and their party has spread all over the place in an attempt to corner Bush at every turn. Sure, they may win the next election, but the American public will soon see the inactivity of the party and just how defetist they really are. Screw the Democrats. Their philosophy is going to RUIN America. A political party should focus on a set of things they want to change about America, and focus the entire population on changing those few things during their reign. The Demorats have become far too ambitious that they have become diluded. Democratic rule will accomplish nothing, as proven with the worthlessness of our current Congress.

The Democratic party has changed to a damage-control/defensive party. Republicans have changed to an offensive party. Dude, we need a third party for sure.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Dude, we need a third party for sure.

Well that's one thing I would agree on, except I would go so far as to say we actually need NO parties. I think all candidates should be independents. Then we can all vote for the person who has better policy ideas, rather than feel like we have to "take sides."

Until that happens (most likely never), I'll probably be voting Democrat for the rest of my years.

Originally Posted by skysaw

Well that's one thing I would agree on, except I would go so far as to say we actually need NO parties. I think all candidates should be independents. Then we can all vote for the person who has better policy ideas, rather than feel like we have to "take sides."

Until that happens (most likely never), I'll probably be voting Democrat for the rest of my years.

I think that would be impossible. Sure, it could work for the first couple presidents, but they would just regroup together. Politicians will mimic the tactics of politicians who win elections, so they will just regroup again. I still think a third part is the way to go.

America needs a true party of the people, which focuses on what the American public wants to get done, and committ to it. Today's parties are fully of empty promises, who don't really do what they promise speech after speech to do.

A third leg will add balance. Having a two part system is like having a stool with only two legs, and is prone to fail. If you read my post before this, I explain this happening with the anti-Bushism. I feel we need a third party to add balance and sense to situations like that. Or, they could just add to the problem.

It would definately spice things up. If one party screwed up, we would have two different perspectives as to why they screwed up. American politics would be absolutely recreated.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I think that would be impossible. Sure, it could work for the first couple presidents, but they would just regroup together.

Sadly, I think you're right. We did use to have quite a few more parties, though.

I think what we desperately need is to somehow keep big businesses from being able to control the candidates with their massive donations. Candidates are much more afraid of acting against their wishes than against the wishes of the people.

I agree, everything Bush does is for the good of himself or for more money or power. He's a selfish bastard and anyone who thinks he's doing good for America is deluded and will find out the hard way.

Originally Posted by tayje005

I agree, everything Bush does is for the good of himself or for more money or power. He's a selfish bastard and anyone who thinks he's doing good for America is deluded and will find out the hard way.

It must be very convenient to make such an insulting assertion without using the slightest bit of substance to back it up and without countering a single argument that has been made in this thread. Since that is the type of conversation you want to have, you put underwear on your head and have romantic affairs with tomatoes.

"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson

The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question it's methods or throw light upon it's crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong it's reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed. Abraham Lincoln

Originally Posted by Swikity

I'm from Canada, and USA politics affect us here.
All I can say for dubya is that he is an idiot.
I mean, seriously the guy graduated from Yale with a C grade, then went on to run the most powerful country in the world.

George Bush is a fool, with an IQ of about 20.

If you think Bush is smart, read the following quotes:
"We have to do everything in our power to eliminate the terrorist killers".

"You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- 1976."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

"They misunderestimated me."

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream."

Nice job, I've never seen someone copy and paste Bushisms before.

I wish these 10-year-olds who think they know what they're talking about would just shut up.

Furthermore, I've met very few people who oppose Bush for any remotely intelligible reasons. The rest of America rehashes old, worn, and fallacious arguments that they heard from their half-brained friends. See the post quoted above, where a false IQ chosen arbitrarily is given as "proof" that Bush is a bad president. I'm not impressed.

Wow does M-cat actually think George Bush is the most fit leader America is capable of producing? The first coke head in the white house.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Wow does M-cat actually think George Bush is the most fit leader America is capable of producing? The first coke head in the white house.

Wow, you accused him of being a "coke head." Not only is that mature, but it's argumentatively valid! And backed by evidence!

Note also that nowhere in my post did I condone or support Bush. Kinda sucks that you call him a "coke head" while being unable to comprehend 6-sentence message board posts.


Another unsuccessful attempt by Mystic7 at intelligence

Originally Posted by M-Cat

Wow, you accused him of being a "coke head." Not only is that mature, but it's argumentatively valid! And backed by evidence!

Note also that nowhere in my post did I condone or support Bush. Kinda sucks that you call him a "coke head" while being unable to comprehend 6-sentence message board posts.


Another unsuccessful attempt by Mystic7 at intelligence

Oh no, you've done it now. I think this is about the point where Mystic posts quotes from and pictures of other people so he doesn't have to make his own points. He might completely prove you wrong by posting a cartoon of Bush with white powder on his nose, and you will just be completely helpless once he does that.

Originally Posted by universal mind

He might completely prove you wrong by posting a cartoon of Bush with white powder on his nose, and you will just be completely helpless once he does that.

I prefer policy debates rather than questions of a person's character. I disagree with most of his policies, but I won't say he's evil. After all, the 2000 and 2004 elections seemed concerned only with choosing the candidate most like the average American, and I think they succeeded. Well, except for the fact that he isn't obese.

Originally Posted by R.D.735

I prefer policy debates rather than questions of a person's character. I disagree with most of his policies, but I won't say he's evil. After all, the 2000 and 2004 elections seemed concerned only with choosing the candidate most like the average American, and I think they succeeded. Well, except for the fact that he isn't obese.

Average Americans don't liberate nations. The obesity deal we have here is a sign of how successful we are. Even our homeless people are fat.

Originally Posted by On May 21st, the insider source described how a military attack on Iran was a strategic impossibility:

Now, thanks to the criminal stupidity of George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, the ground forces, viz the Army and the Marines, are ruined. The casualty rates are terrible, and unreported, and equipment such as trucks, soft-skinned vehicles, tanks and other support vehicles, to include military helicopters, are mostly inoperative and under repair because of the known damage done to internal combustion engines by desert sand.

The heavy death tolls, basically minimized by the DoD, and the really appalling injuries suffered by troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan has removed tens of thousands of soldiers from the field…

In short, our defenses have been destroyed and it will take years to replace the missing soldiers and, as important, the destroyed and badly damaged equipment. The allegations of torture and worse being practiced inside the United States are only the tip of a very ugly iceberg lying in the path of the approaching Titanic.

Bush has single-handedly ruined America’s world reputation, destroyed her ground forces, ruined their equipment and brought future decades of shame and disgrace upon us all. Former president Carter was dead-on when he said George W. Bush was the worst president in our entire history.

Unfortunately, the administration does not want to see reality. More recent updates from May 25th indicate that even if the adminstration still seeks a military strike, all the command structure — from the top Pentagon brass right through to the soldiers on the ground — have lost all will to proceed:

The Pentagon experts now feel that Bush has personally ruined the military and exposed us to very critical security problems. None of these realities are recognized by… Bush-Cheney-Rove.

[If allowed to move forward, they] will end up causing huge death tolls among our young soldiers which, like the battered French army in 1918, will cause mutinies, refusals to fight and the killing of officers that are too gung-ho. This, according to the military analysis, is guaranteed to happen if the present policies are not radically altered — but no one has the balls to do anything about it.

There is reputedly such strong pressure coming from Israel, who apparently has a huge 'blackmail' file they threaten to use, that the administration has ratcheted up tensions by placing the bulk of America's naval strike forces into the Persian Gulf. The TBRNews source indicates this is nearly a suicidal move, as there are ample supplies of Russian missiles capable of utterly decimating the fleet:

If an American or an American/Israeli attack were to be launched on Iran, they would retaliate, not with atomic weapons but with Russian-supplied missiles. Anyone taking the trouble to look on the Internet about these new weapons, will know that they cannot be deflected by our electronic missile defenses and all it would take would be for one missile to plow into an aircraft carrier, well within range, and blow a hole in it big enough to run a train through.

The Persian Gulf is not that deep but if a carrier sinks to the bottom of it, the loss of life would be very high, there being ca 6,000 men on board. And we are speaking here of just one enormous ship and not the dozens of other large naval units now on station and also easy targets. A big fleet, confined in the relatively narrow Persian Gulf and easily within the range of Iranian/Russian missiles, could, in theory, be virtually obliterated with terrible consequences.

The point is not to dishonor the united states government, but to share information completely overlooked by mainstream and alternative press but widely known inside knowledge.