Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
What we have here is way better than totalitarianism. The world deserves freedom, and no government has a right to be totalitarian. They are two completely different things. You are damn lucky the U.S. did not let the Soviets get their way. You would not have the freedom to get on the internet and trash your country if they did.
I didn't say that I thought totalitarianism was better than what we have here. I'm not going to go back to the argument we've already had about whether Iraqis and the Middle East in general even want democracy. Have you heard how they've started killing the Christians in Iraq now? They are going to be such a model society of tolerance and freedom. After the terrorist-vaccuming is over, I mean.

I'm not trashing my country, I'm trashing the administration who works for the interests of coporations using our tax money and soldiers' blood for profit, and the people who stand by and let them do it. So you think anyone who disagrees with the government is "trashing their country"? That's a low blow--sounds a little totalitarian to me, and it makes me think you don't really have a good response to what I am saying, so you resort to insulting my patriotism. Maybe you think I shouldn't have the right to say it at all? So by thinking that the president should have to follow the constitution and not do whatever the hell he wants, and that we shouldn't cause an enormous amount of suffering for no end other than making his friends richer, I am committing some sort of offense? I think they are destroying our country, honestly, and we are going towards fascism, and it's people like you who accuse people who disagree with you of "trashing their country" that will let it happen.

Do you know about NSPD-51, and the plan to suspend the constitution in case of "catastrophic emergency"? What constitutes a catastrophic emergency is conveniently defined by the president. I think people who think we are safe from a coup in this country may get a surprise someday. That's the kind of thing that people who "trash their country" are trying to prevent.

Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
We needed to ally with the Soviet Union against the Nazis. Don't you agree? So sometimes allying with scum is necessary.
That analogy is so absolutely inaccurate it's ridiculous. So you think that uniting with the Soviets to defeat Hitler from taking over the world is the same as us funding the Taliban to keep Afghanistan safe for our pipeline? It's laughable. So, no I don't agree, because you don't know what you are talking about.

I really don't think you have much knowledge of the events leading up to our invasion of Iraq, and what really happened in Afghanistan. If you did, you wouldn't constantly compare it to WWII.

Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
What you keep saying about it how it is ALL about oil is an assumption, and an unfounded one. My agreement with the war rationales you talked about is not rooted in automatic belief in somebody's word. It is about reaching the same conclusions as the policy makers because of what makes sense to me. Why do you automatically believe the oil conspiracy lies?
Let's see...what are all those many reasons you are always talking about that made us choose Iraq as the first place to liberate in our policy of spreading freedom to the masses of the world? Let's see, the first one was our ex-friend Saddam, the next one is...what was that again?

You know, a lot, I'd say the majority, of people don't really think about what is going on in the middle east, and as long as they are not inconvenienced and gas is cheap, they'll go along with anything, and they don't care why we are there. Then there are people who are outraged, and don't want to contribute to never-ending violence and suffering, just so they can drive an SUV. Then there's a small minority of oil executives, other corporate leaders, and politicians getting rich on it, and they are all for it, and are actually the ones telling the lies. But there are very few people who pay attention, and actually accept the lies at face value.

So I'm assuming you are heavily invested in oil. Nothing else could explain your thought processes.