Thread: Marijuana/cocaine should be legalized in the U.S

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

....outlaws disappear.

Checkmate!

In favor of legalizing all substances that cannot be used to blow up things. The governement shouldn't have a fucking say in what I put into my body, it's none of their goddamn business. And it's not their fucking job to shape society. It doesn't work anyway. If society chooses to get high on all sorts of things and ruin its economy, then so be it.

But please do tell me why humanity survived even though for the last couple of thousand years everyone could have just gotten drunk all day and lied in bed. Well, there's a thing called self-responsibility and - this might be news to you - people don't actually want to live a shitty life. Seriuosly, do you think the effect of legalizing heroin and crack will be everyone going "Oh yeah, finally I can ruin my body, mind and life, and feel all the isolation, paranoia and depression that I so long for." Common, get a grip.

Legalize the fuckin thing!

Originally Posted by Korittke

But please do tell me why humanity survived even though for the last couple of thousand years everyone could have just gotten drunk all day and lied in bed. Well, there's a thing called self-responsibility and - this might be news to you - people don't actually want to live a shitty life. Seriuosly, do you think the effect of legalizing heroin and crack will be everyone going "Oh yeah, finally I can ruin my body, mind and life, and feel all the isolation, paranoia and depression that I so long for." Common, get a grip.

Legalize the fuckin thing!

Two things wrong with this:

1) You can't compare something like alcohol to something like coke. They are two completely different types of highs. While they are both known to bring out aggressive attitudes, you can actually lay around and do nothing, on alcohol. With coke, you are much more likely to get up, get out, and start some shit. The LAST thing a country this violent needs is to make it easier for every Tom, Dick and Dirtbag to get their hands on something that's going to make them feel like the Incredible Hulk. While I see your point, there is no comparison.

2) Do you think the people that are hooked on these types of drugs, now (You know....the millions of them) say "Oh yeah, finally I can ruin my body, mind and life, and feel all the isolation, paranoia and depression that I so long for"? No. The majority of these people don't get into a drug for the purpose of fucking up their lives. Fucking up their lives just happens to be an unfortunate byproduct...one that often loses in the battle of, "what should I do, quit these drug (now that I'm addicted) in order to salvage any chance of normalcy, that I once had, or head down to Mike's for another bag? Hmmm..."

Actually Oneironaut, I find Alcohol a very comparable drug to Cocaine:
- Both Alcohol and Cocaine give a sort of stimulating buzz in the sense that they loosen you up socially and you can become very happy/hyper
- Both alcohol and cocaine can induce irritated, psychologically excited states of mind where someone can suddenly burst out into violence and anger.
- Both Alcohol and Cocaine are addictive and sneakily habitforming before they become addiction.
- Both Alcohol and Cocaine are about equally toxic on the human body. If I'm not mistaken Alcohol is even MORE damaging to the body than Cocaine, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the reason we have alot of misunderstandings about drugs between 1 group of likeminded and another is because we have different ways of classifying drugs that are bad and drugs that are good or okay.

Where many reason that all drugs are bad, but Alcohol is okay, because it's legal and everyone thinks it's okay too, I reason slightly different. Not based on what I've heard most people say but based on observing intoxicated people and myself when intoxicated. Here's how I morally devide Drugs:

"Good":
-Magic Mushrooms, Psilocybin, non-toxic, intense Visual hallucinations and distortions, religious/spiritual experience;may be beneficial to Personal Groth and Life Orientation.
-Marijuana, THC, non toxic, Peacefull/Dreamy/Love experience, May give you alot of insight in other people's point of view. (even totally harmless if you don't smoke but eat it)
-DMT/Ayahuasca, DMT, non-toxic, intense, realistic Visual hallucinations and distortions, A TRUE displacement and traveling of the "You"/Soul, immersive, Dreamlike spiritual journey to "The Dome" and contact with otherwordly humanoids/beings(Substance is endogenous to the human and many mammal's, body)
-San Pedro & Peyote cacti, Mescaline, non-toxic, Spiritual experience, Visual hallucinations and distortions, often considered teaching(Google:Mescalito)
-Salvia, Salvinorin A & B, very lowly toxic (still no more than coffee), intense, rapid, immersive Dreamlike experience.
- Iboga Root, Ibogaine, lowly toxic, Religious visual dreamy experience that can last for days, ability to dissolve and cure habit- and addiction-urges. Even heroin addicts can be cured with this root.
- Morning Glory & Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, LSA, lowly toxic, Psychological introspection and potentiated creative thought, slight, constant, annoying stomach discomfort and weakness in limbs.
- Acid, LSD, hardily toxic, Intense psychic and physical excitation, emotional charges and complex trains of thought, profound religious/spiritual/introspective life changing experiences, intense, realistic Visual hallucinations and distortions

"Bad":
-Speed, Amphetamine, Quite toxic and harmfull, Stimulant making people awake and energetic, dissociated somewhat in high doses
-Liquor, Alcohol, highly toxic and harmfull, HIGHLY addictive, brings relaxation/depression, short bursts of energy, agitation, emotional/social inhibitions loosen up or disappear, general emotional excitation and mood lift.
-Cocaine, Cocaine, quite toxic, VERY addictive, Stimulation/sharpens the senses, gives sudden burst of energy, agitation, easily agrivated, arrogance/megalomania
-XTC or "E", MDMA (in pills often mixed with Speed), quite toxic, Brings incredible Euphoria/intense joy, Sedation paired with Stimulation, Feelings of Love/Empathy/Lust, Extreme dizzyness/disbalance, some dissociation, extreme visual distortions when it "kicks in", Feeling life- and lust-less/depressed the 2 days afterwards, serotonin-sydrome-risk high after long, frequent use, May be lethal if XTC filled in with Ratpoison (which is sometimes done) is taken in higher doses, overal risky.
-Opium, Heroin, Very harmfull and VERY addictive, brings sedation/euphoria/calmness/apathy and bizarre dreams.
etc..


Well I hope you understand my moral logic in how I devided Drugs that are interresting and positive, but most importantly harmless, from Drugs that may or may not be interresting, but are mentally/physically wrecking and not worth the risks/damage.

Originally Posted by Korittke

Checkmate!

In favor of legalizing all substances that cannot be used to blow up things. The governement shouldn't have a fucking say in what I put into my body, it's none of their goddamn business. And it's not their fucking job to shape society. It doesn't work anyway. If society chooses to get high on all sorts of things and ruin its economy, then so be it.

But please do tell me why humanity survived even though for the last couple of thousand years everyone could have just gotten drunk all day and lied in bed. Well, there's a thing called self-responsibility and - this might be news to you - people don't actually want to live a shitty life. Seriuosly, do you think the effect of legalizing heroin and crack will be everyone going "Oh yeah, finally I can ruin my body, mind and life, and feel all the isolation, paranoia and depression that I so long for." Common, get a grip.

Legalize the fuckin thing!

Bravo! Finally someone who's sight is sharp and thinks for himself instead of thinking which of all pre-laid out drug-opinions + ignorant arguments that others have layed out for them to pick up instead of forming an own opinion out of own experience.

People don't seem to realise that you cannot even be in control of what to put into your body. As if your body is state property.

Can anyone give me any sensible arguments as to why Peyote cacti(Mescaline), Magic Mushrooms(Psilocybin), Marijuana(THC) and the Amazonian indian brew Ayahuasca (DMT) and free base pure DMT are illegal while Alcohol, Tobacco, Prescription opiates, Prescription Ephedra and prescription Amphetamines(SPEED) are legal? Cuz it makes absolutely no sense to me.

Originally Posted by SKA

Bravo! Finally someone who's sight is sharp and thinks for himself instead of thinking which of all pre-laid out drug-opinions + ignorant arguments that others have layed out for them to pick up instead of forming an own opinion out of own experience.

I think more people have done that than you are giving credit to.

Originally Posted by SKA

People don't seem to realise that you cannot even be in control of what to put into your body. As if your body is state property.

The difference is that when you put substances such as cocaine in your body, it often not only affects you, but the people around you. It is often not a victim-less drug, and instills every already-aggressive Yahoo with even more bravado, rendering it much more likely that he will take his own aggression over the line, and end up harming himself or someone else simply for the reason that he is on. Coke.

"Harming oneself doesn't matter," you might say. Tell that to the countless children that lose their parents to substances like cocaine each year. Is their parents' coke-abuse harmless to them? Think about your life as a parent (should you have one). Does the "not being able to regulate what people put in their own bodies" argument hold water when you are thinking about the easy-availability of such a deadly drug being presented to your 15-year-old daughter? Would you want something that can kill you in one dosage being sold at the 7-11 down the street?

Originally Posted by SKA

Can anyone give me any sensible arguments as to why Peyote cacti(Mescaline), Magic Mushrooms(Psilocybin), Marijuana(THC) and the Amazonian indian brew Ayahuasca (DMT) and free base pure DMT are illegal while Alcohol, Tobacco, Prescription opiates, Prescription Ephedra and prescription Amphetamines(SPEED) are legal?

Though I'm with you on this argument, that's not what this thread is about. I don't think anyone has provided a suitable enough argument as to why marijuana shouldn't be legalized, but you can't put the above drugs that you mentioned even in the same context as with cocaine. I may drink a lot of alcohol, but I certainly wouldn't be quick to defend it from being prohibited. The same goes with tobacco. My point is that there is no sensible argument to why the drugs you listed are prohibited while drugs like alcohol and tobacco are legal (other than revenue), but that fact doesn't have much place in the discussion of why cocaine should be legalized. If it was a "one or the other" scenario, I would rather see all mind-altering substances outlawed, before I would advocate the legalization of things like cocaine, heroin, and crystal meth.

yeah but what my idea of proper drug control is to protect wreckless people from themselves. Not to prevent people from getting high.
In my opinion drugs such as Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, Opiates and other high risk, damaging drugs alike those I just mentioned should be kept away from people since they can do nothing but harm. But then again is prohibition the right way to do it? Try to find out, Oneironaught, just how easily you can obtain Meth, and you'll see how "well" the drugenforcement works.


I am certainly PRO keeping people away from these types of devastating drugs, but I'm unsure as to how to do that. Prohibition and onesided-propaganda doesn't seem to stop alot of people on wasting themselves on drugs such as Meth, Cocaine and Heroin/Opiates. It seems to make these drugs more of a forbidden fruit which seems to attract more people rather than properly warn them.

I think the best protection against such drugs are truthfull, objective information to be publically avaiblable and shown via the Media to the masses, instead of Strange, Propaganda posters telling negative lies about Marijuana and such lame actions.
A better awareness of the risks of certain drugs would be a much better protection against drugaddiction, healthproblems and all related social problems and criminality.

People need to be well AWARE of the risks that come with the self-respect lacking pleasures of Cocaine, Meth, Heroin/Opiates so that the decision NOT to do them is genuine and comes from themselves instead of just being told "Not to do drugs, cuz they're bad hmmkay". The Taboo surrounding the whole issue of "Drugs" really doesn't help with the bringing of this Awareness. It creates alot of uncertainty about the issue.

What furtherly creates confusion in the drug issue is the fact that the laws prohibiting drugs seem to make no sense: How can Drugs such as Marijuana, Peyote and DMT be put in the same class of drugs, Class A (most dangerious), as Heroin, Cocaine and Meth?
The health effects of most natural hallucinogens are well known to be very low and way more acceptable than even something as simple as plain Coffee, especially amongst Natural Psychonaughts/Neo-Shamans.

This lack of sense of the legal system of Drug-enforcement creates further confusion about the Good/Bad opinions of "Drugs" in individuals leading them to question all Drug-enforcement and demoralisation and drawing their own conclusions on what is Good and what is Bad in the Drug-issue; And alot of people, who have already made up their Mind about wanting to use certain drugs, choose to use the wrong, harmfull drugs because they are very underinformed. Thanks to a Drug-Taboo and morally questionable drug-laws that both create alot of confusion and ignorance towards this issue. This results in an uncontrolable abuse of toxic and mentally damaging drugs that, no matter how enfored and illegal, will be widely available anyway.