Our Sterile Culture

[MrBeelzy]

Alright, you might have to bear with me here, I'll play the 'it's late card' if anything is especially incoherent . I remember once a few years ago I was working at a fast food joint, and I was handing a guy a cone, and he told me "You touched the cone part, please get me a new one." As an employee I washed my hands regularly. So I may have touched some cash before touching his cone, but why is this so offensive? Why is damn near every cleaning product, and soap 'antibacterial' nowadays? Why is that such a huge selling point? Everyone fears bacteria, and dirt, everyone is in fear of some pandemic that is waiting to sweep the nation because some people shook hands. Do we really see each other as that filthy? I'm going to make a confession, I wash my hands maybe twice a day unless I happen to get some sort of chemical on them. Yes, I piss, and shit, and I'd probably shake your hand too. I'll share a bottle of water with anyone, god knows I've shared a enough smoking implements, and have yet to die. I'm going to fart in public, pick my nose should I feel inclined, and generally be a disgusting person. Why are bodily functions shameful disgusting things? Americans don't even say they're going to the toilet, they go to the washroom. Overall I think I'm doing everyone a favor. Keeping their immune systems on their toes. Why do you think children put everything in their mouths? To build up that normal flora (breatsfeeding is another action that facilitates this of course). I'm almost never sick, and this isn't because of my high constitution modifier (since Gygax died, I've been on a kick with the references, I apologize), and I am far from a health nut. You have ten times the amount of microbial cells in your body than you have your own. Bacteria is good for you. There are far more beneficial microbes that keep you healthy (first and second line of your immune defense system relies on these significantly), than make you sick. So, pass that bacteria around, don't be scared of a little raw meat, some dirt, or human contact. I just don't want the world to end up like the future in Demolition Man. /rant Sorry about that. Of course I support a base line level of hygiene, keeping from smelling truly offensive and the like (I shower every day, but twice a week is totally acceptable to me). Keeping garbage out of the streets and other such practices are appreciable too. So why are so many people like this though? Media sensationalism no doubt. I think it also ties into our (this is a North American thing here) embarrassment with nudity, and sex, and various other natural activities. There is some irrational need to separate ourselves from the beasts and the savages. I'd love to hear some opinions, especially from some germaphobes (not really judging, I'd just like to understand). Anecdotes and opinions encouraged as well as discussion, so... discuss.

[Traveling_Troubador]

Hear hear.

[wasup]

Washing your hands after using the bathroom is pretty key in my opinion. If you are going to put your hand that close to your ass, well, it's pretty gross not to wash your hands. Before eating or preparing food too. Plus, I have a feeling you don't know what something "contagious" means. I mean damnit, if you have a cold, don't touch my food. This has nothing to do with our "immune systems" here... our immune systems will not get better by getting a cold.

[Sornaensis]

Why don't you take a trip to the dark ages dude? Ever heard of Cholera? Or the black plague? You're an idiot.

[dragonoverlord]

Why don't you take a trip to the dark ages dude? Ever heard of Cholera? Or the black plague? You're an idiot. wow man take it easy. thats no way to treat someoen who is new to DV.

[GestaltAlteration]

Interesting post MrBeelzy. I don't get sick very often either, and I'm not the most hyginic person in the world. I can't really say one way or the other though. I'm not educated enough on the subject.

[MrBeelzy]

Why don't you take a trip to the dark ages dude? Ever heard of Cholera? Or the black plague? You're an idiot. Like I said, I'm not against hygiene. It's hardly fair to compare not washing your hands often to an age where sewage and water systems were open. There are systems and structures in place that make something of the magnitude of the black plague unlikely. I think I am aware of the nature of infectious disease as well. Although I am no longer a science student, I have taken my fair share of biology, including microbiology. The fact is, transmission is not nearly as likely as most people think. For example, take that man a while ago who had antibacterial resistant tuberculosis, and took a flight, and cause all that controversy. I'm not saying I agree with his actions, I probably wouldn't have been up and about if I had tuberculosis to begin with, but the chances of another person on the flight getting tuberculosis was hardly worth worrying about. For most infections (viral anyway), you are most contagious before you show symptoms. SARS, West Nile, Bird Flu, even E. coli, and mad cow, all those are more examples of things that were blown out of proportion and sensationalized. The fact is that practices of using antibacterial agents as soaps, or drugs, and general overemphasis are only hastening the generation of superbugs, which have potential to be more virulent than anything we have encountered. I will wash my hands when I get shit on them, or when I sneeze and get gross ass phlegmy spit on them. The fact is, I don't sneeze into my hands, that is just bad practice, and most people should know how to do it properly. If you're sick, you should limit the amount of time you spend up and about, if only for your own good. I was reminded of this anecdote. My Dad once took a bunch of petri dishes to my sister's elementary school, and got all the kids to touch them. Everyone but my sister and her friend ran and washed their hands. Guess what, they (edit, this should read the people that did wash their hands) had the largest and most diverse colonies on their petri dishes. Take that as you will, it really can't add to either side of the argument, I just thought it was an interesting little story.

[wasup]

Was the point to your story that people who have no hygeine will have more bacteria on their hands? I don't really see how you're supporting your argument. And who are you to say that such diseases aren't really as infections as they claim?

[Taosaur]

It's funny to me that you see more paranoia about hygiene in these bottom-rung chain restaurants, whereas in an upscale place, you just know at least one or two people have had their hands all over your food. I suppose that's partly a matter of trust, but I think also your more educated, more worldly and adventurous clientèle are less worried about this stuff.

[MrBeelzy]

Was the point to your story that people who have no hygeine will have more bacteria on their hands? I don't really see how you're supporting your argument. And who are you to say that such diseases aren't really as infections as they claim? Yeah, I fixed the story so now it makes sense, don't know how I managed to type it out how I did. The thing was that the people who washed their hands actually had the most bacteria. I'm not saying that is bad thing, but I find it funny either way. Who am I to say that the diseases aren't as infectious as the claim? Nobody really, but I happen to share a table with one of Canada's most respected microbiologists, and someone pursuing their PhD researching pathogenomics. I tend to pick things up. Also, there is the fact that none of the diseases have killed all that many people, they number mostly in the hundreds. It is not fair to compare them to the major pandemics of the last century quite yet, where we see figures in the millions over a few seasons. The media does exactly, this, showing projected figures, graphs showing potential threat zones, and overall sensationalizing the whole event. It is far more responsible to simply alert the public of the situation, and what measures are being taken to deal with it. The scientific community is going to do what they can, and social panic isn't going to benefit them, or anyone. It would be great if communication between scientists and the media could be fair, and that figures and facts could be delivered to the public frankly, but that's not how it works. News making is a business, and the general population is undereducated. Large scale events like this, as well as the little things I've already mentioned fuel a poor mindset that at best is a little foolish and inconvenient, and at worst adds to the severity of real problems.

[MrBeelzy]

It's funny to me that you see more paranoia about hygiene in these bottom-rung chain restaurants, whereas in an upscale place, you just know at least one or two people have had their hands all over your food. I suppose that's partly a matter of trust, but I think also your more educated, more worldly and adventurous clientèle are less worried about this stuff. Double post, but I totally agree with your observation. If anyone knows who Anthony Bourdain is (rad, rad guy), he talks about all the terrible practices that go on in kitchens, that he observed and experienced in his years as a cook and chef. We're talking drug use, sex, health code violations, the works. Does it make him think twice about going to restaurants, or enjoying the plate set in front of him? No, because he knows even if the food is a day old, rehashed, or that an employee might have done something unsavory during the preparation of his food, he will still enjoy it, and chances are he will be fine. It's just like a skeptical, scientific minded person, especially one in a field relating to microbiology, should know that so many 'unhealthy' practices probably won't harm you. Chances are sort of thing again.

[wasup]

Have you ever considered the reason WHY these diseases don't spread as much and not as many people die from them is because of good hygeine?

[MrBeelzy]

Have you ever considered the reason WHY these diseases don't spread as much and not as many people die from them is because of good hygeine? Before really getting into this, I'd like to know what you think good hygiene is. This is probably something I should have put in the OP, but I'll ask it now anyway. I am an extreme, I'll acknowledge that, but I live the way I do knowing that I am far more likely to die from a car crash, or some form of cancer I have brought on myself, than some infection.

[ChrissyMaria]

I sorta agree with the original post, but I think people who don't wash their hands after handling money, privates below, doorknobs or your nose are disgusting and should be punched. theres people i see everyday who pee or poo and just leave without washing their hands, spreading their nasty shit everywhere they touch. Its just disgusting, how would you feel if you touched a doorknob that some disgusting bum with crabs touched after scratching his pubes?

[MrBeelzy]

I sorta agree with the original post, but I think people who don't wash their hands after handling money, privates below, doorknobs or your nose are disgusting and should be punched. theres people i see everyday who pee or poo and just leave without washing their hands, spreading their nasty shit everywhere they touch. Its just disgusting, how would you feel if you touched a doorknob that some disgusting bum with crabs touched after scratching his pubes? Not all that bad really. I wash my hands when I get shit on them, but luckily I've learned to wipe my ass without doing so. I wouldn't be worried about the crabs in the least, and his pubes isn't going to be full of disease, at least not originating there. Sweat and some stank sure, but those aren't really something I choose to worry about. Either way, it isn't much worse than someone touching their face or mouth (which people do all the time without thinking it). People pick and choose the activities that are disgusting, but they ignore ones that are just as bad, and are done with greater frequency.

[ChrissyMaria]

Not all that bad really. I wash my hands when I get shit on them, but luckily I've learned to wipe my ass without doing so. I wouldn't be worried about the crabs in the least, and his pubes isn't going to be full of disease, at least not originating there. Sweat and some stank sure, but those aren't really something I choose to worry about. Either way, it isn't much worse than someone touching their face or mouth (which people do all the time without thinking it). People pick and choose the activities that are disgusting, but they ignore ones that are just as bad, and are done with greater frequency. well sorry to say this dude but, your grimey i'm ocd and slightly germaphobic and paranoid so, thats my reason for being so appauled by people who are disgusting. to me, anyone who intends to shake ones hand after eating or pissing or pooping or scratching is a dirty smelly ass animal. I wash my hands after i touch a doorknob, i wash the damned faucet handles with soap and the soap dispenser in soap, then i open the door with a paper towel so i don't touch the doorknob, then i use my knuckles to hit buttons and switches to avoid germs....etc... my problem is mostly mental though.. but you dude, your kinda gross, if you wipe your ass then NOT WASH YOUR HANDS, i wouldn't want to be in the same room as you if you truly wipe your ass and just get up and go back to work its called hygiene and you sir, are lacking it, and your also lacking respect for other peoples bodies by purposefully not washing after yourself, its wrong, immoral, disgusting, and dirty and just plain WRONG. wash your hands dude....

[george]

I completely agree with you. Also, another point is that excess hygiene during infancy has been proven to cause allergies, which are basically just defects of the immune system. If a child grows up without contact to various bacteria, its immune system will not develop properly, which can lead to allergies - overreacting immune system.

[Universal Mind]

well sorry to say this dude but, your grimey i'm ocd and slightly germaphobic and paranoid so, thats my reason for being so appauled by people who are disgusting. to me, anyone who intends to shake ones hand after eating or pissing or pooping or scratching is a dirty smelly ass animal. I wash my hands after i touch a doorknob, i wash the damned faucet handles with soap and the soap dispenser in soap, then i open the door with a paper towel so i don't touch the doorknob, then i use my knuckles to hit buttons and switches to avoid germs....etc... my problem is mostly mental though.. but you dude, your kinda gross, if you wipe your ass then NOT WASH YOUR HANDS, i wouldn't want to be in the same room as you if you truly wipe your ass and just get up and go back to work its called hygiene and you sir, are lacking it, and your also lacking respect for other peoples bodies by purposefully not washing after yourself, its wrong, immoral, disgusting, and dirty and just plain WRONG. wash your hands dude.... There needs to be a reality show with you and MrBeelzy living in the same one bedroom apartment. Maybe a former Brady Bunch actor can live with you too to help ratings.

[MrBeelzy]

When I wipe my ass, I use enough toilet paper so no shit will get through. I also manage not to make contact with anything but said paper. I might be harming some trees, but I am effectively avoiding contact with feces. I don't smell bad, I look absolutely presentable. It is your opinion that certain practices are gross. The fact is that they do not add a significant risk to passing infection, not more than the average person who might wash their hands more often (guerilla, you are an extreme, germaphobic compulsions aren't normal). In fact, I believe I could get away with doing a lot less, and I have no problem with people who are 'grosser' than me. As to my lack of respect for other people, well I can't really argue with that. I subscribe a view similar to Mill's on the principle of harm. Not only do my actions not affect one's liberty, I sincerely believe that they shouldn't cause other people physical harm (especially if they consider themselves a very sanitary person). It's like if I were to use a racial slur. I feel it is fair, because firstly I wouldn't say it to someone who might get offended, and secondly, even if I did, if they can't tell the context that I used it was not hateful, fuck them. Chances are you or I are not going to get sick from being a little less sanitary in your day to day activities. If you do, you'll probably be fine in the long run, maybe even better off for it. And the day another pandemic spreads, should a number of people die, including me or my family, I won't be blaming the fact that a few people didn't wash their hands. Even if you get microbes on your hand from me, you can still go wash your hands later before you touch your food or your mouth. If I still worked in the food industry, I probably would wash my hands though, that is a different situation. In the very first story I told, I respect that dudes right to ask for a new cone, and I did it, not just because my job (because it was such a good job) was on the line, I think his opinion is wrong.

[Sornaensis]

Germs get passed much more easily than you think and hand-shakes is the number one speading cause of the common cold.

[Taosaur]

Seriously man, how much would it put you out to wash your hands after you wipe your ass?

[ChrissyMaria]

When I wipe my ass, I use enough toilet paper so no shit will get through. I also manage not to make contact with anything but said paper. I might be harming some trees, but I am effectively avoiding contact with feces. your still dirty, and lazy, and gross for not washing after, people like you make me wanna vomit honestly i can't lie.

[thegnome54]

Keep in mind the varying butt-wiping techniques used around the world. Many places use water, basically washing the shit out with their hands. Here's a story from some random dude who's been around this rock a few times. Couple of years ago, I travelled through Afghanistan and stayed with a family in the Panshere Valley. They use smooth pebbles, a basket of which are left conveniently beside the convenience. These pebbles are then washed and re-used. Thankfully, I always travel with a secret stash of 4-ply. I also went to Norway around the same time, and was told that the Sami people use small squares of cardboard, which they stick their index finger through. They scrape the poo off their bottoms with said finger, pull the finger back through the hole in the cardboard, which should be well fitting enough to remove most of pooh from the finger, fold up the cardboard and then throw it away. I didn’t ask about the long finger nail quandry, and luckily of course, I had my four-ply. I wash my hands after going to the bathroom, but it's mainly to avoid being societally acceptable. Unless you fail at wiping your ass, there should be NO contact between your hands and your butt or crap at all.

[Universal Mind]

I am so glad Afghanistan has gotten started in the Westernization process. That disgusting stuff alone was good enough reason to turn them into a capitalist democracy. If anybody wants to argue with me about the liberation of Afghanistan in the future, I have another trump card.

[dragonoverlord]

I am so glad Afghanistan has gotten started in the Westernization process. That disgusting stuff alone was good enough reason to turn them into a capitalist democracy. If anybody wants to argue with me about the liberation of Afghanistan in the future, I have another trump card. You are sadly mistaken if you think Afghanistan or Iraq is going to become a western country. At one point Iran was at that stage where they were starting to embrace western ideals. Girls wearing bikinis. Dads with grills pretending to be americans blah blah then came along the Islamic Revoloution. The Shah of Iran was a tyrant anyway. He had it coming. I don't think Iraq or Afghanistan is going to follow in the footsteps of Kuwait or the UAE.